Heaven's Eye IV

SE,

Please consider raising the rate of Heavens Eye IV or resolving the issue with Sarnga and Mailbreaker.


I luckily got my last mailbreaker try to go through otheriwise I was honestly ready to quit. I know someone that has already quit because of sarnga blowups.


The materia costs on our server right now are :

Heavens IV : 1.5-2mil possibly 3 mil for +16.


Not sure why this wasn't considered, I understand that it's a gil sink but making two relics share one materia is a bit too much I think.

I don't know what the exact solution is, maybe allow level III into the picture, or add more slots that can turn into Heaven's Eye or raise the drop rate on Heaven's Eye. Regardless something needs to be done about this.


Also, its not a great feeling to go 1/9, then found out other people go 1/1, 1/2, 1/2, lol.


**also want to add, for me, I feel like getting a relic should be an epic journey/quest, not some gambling craze/ragemelding process, granted that its only one part of the relic.

I went 1/10 on Avengers, altho my materia is cheap as can be, farming the mats and blowing up DS Ingot +1 synths sucks, so I ended up buying them and selling what I farmed, and still blew tons of money :( RNG is RNG :(

I do think they should change either pld or brd to use a diff type of materia to alleviate the rise in materia prices, pld shouldve been HP imo.

HP would be perfect since PLD's relic provides double-meld or better boosts to both HP and Accuracy.

You see this sort of pattern on all the relic weapons. The double-meld boost you put on the base weapon shows up in the final stats, the +50 enmity on Bravura, the +70MP on Sphairai, the +100 crit power on Gae Bolg, etc.

option for triple melding IIIs?

SE won't change anything but you do have a few options.

If you are farming all the mats yourself, I would just buy a pre melded bow and sell off the mats. If you are failing that much you may end up saving more money.

You will also get people that will tell you that they Spirt Bonded all their own materia. While neither of these answers may be the answers you are looking for I don't think SE will change anything.

Overtime prices will drop ><

The price is set by the community, so changing it to another materia won't work. Even increasing the conversion chance won't work.

The reason some materia is cheaper than the other is not necessarily the attributes it grants but which class is most likely to use it. The reason Manathirst is priced so cheap is because it's for MNK's relic and otherwise pretty much useless. While Heaven's Eye is for a tanking/buffing class that is much more welcome to your typical endgame party.

Which means people will put it up for a higher price because it's more likely to get bought for this price. Who'd buy Manathirst IV for a few mil? Heaven's Eye seems to be selling nicely and growing in price.

Bottom line: if you don't like the prices, don't buy. The price will regulate itself down eventually.

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Originally Posted by Rau

option for triple melding IIIs?

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Unless it was a triple meld which would be a lower % then 2 X IV I dont think this would be a viable option, III's are far cheaper and increase the %'s quite a bit, OP kind of hit it on the nose, it is indeed a gil sink, and it can be frustrating friends/linkshell mates going 1/1 etc, hell my ls mate went 1/1 on two weps ><..

We worked together as a team mining, spiritbonding, and made over 10 double melded weapons just by working together, everything in this game is far easier working as a team with goals then hoping you get lucky doing it alone and praying to the RNG gods.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

The price is set by the community, so changing it to another materia won't work. Even increasing the conversion chance won't work.

The reason some materia is cheaper than the other is not necessarily the attributes it grants but which class is most likely to use it. The reason Manathirst is priced so cheap is because it's for MNK's relic and otherwise pretty much useless. While Heaven's Eye is for a tanking/buffing class that is much more welcome to your typical endgame party.

Which means people will put it up for a higher price because it's more likely to get bought for this price. Who'd buy Manathirst IV for a few mil? Heaven's Eye seems to be selling nicely and growing in price.

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No its pretty much how rare it is getting INT IV is rare so is acc and crt hit rate and among other things, mp and hp materia falls off the tree's.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

The price is set by the community, so changing it to another materia won't work. Even increasing the conversion chance won't work.

The reason some materia is cheaper than the other is not necessarily the attributes it grants but which class is most likely to use it. The reason Manathirst is priced so cheap is because it's for MNK's relic and otherwise pretty much useless. While Heaven's Eye is for a tanking/buffing class that is much more welcome to your typical endgame party.

Which means people will put it up for a higher price because it's more likely to get bought for this price. Who'd buy Manathirst IV for a few mil? Heaven's Eye seems to be selling nicely and growing in price.

Bottom line: if you don't like the prices, don't buy. The price will regulate itself down eventually.

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Heaven's eye is being inflated drastically cause it is used for 2 relics, all other relic materia prices are relatively stable, and manathirst is cheap because it is a common spiritbond item. Prices won't drop for a while, as this content is still high in demand.

Yeah actually if anything, the prices for Heavens Eye, Touch of Rage, Savage have gone up recently.

Heavens went from 900k to 2mil ish

Touch of Rage went from 800k to 1.5mil

and Savage Might went from 600k to 1mil now.

I'm fairly certain triple melding IIIs is lower than double melding IVs. Its 30% on III double and 15% on III triple. Pretty sure its around the same 15% if not higher for IV double. (Assuming you use the lowest quality materia of the tier) So triple III could be a viable option for SE.

You can buy it with guildmarks if you still have some.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Heaven's eye is being inflated drastically cause it is used for 2 relics, all other relic materia prices are relatively stable, and manathirst is cheap because it is a common spiritbond item. Prices won't drop for a while, as this content is still high in demand.

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The key point here is demand. If you buy materia for 4Mil, why would the seller ever lower the price? If you refuse to pay the price, the price will eventually go down. If you absolutely HAVE to have this materia now, pay the price.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

The key point here is demand. If you buy materia for 4Mil, why would the seller ever lower the price? If you refuse to pay the price, the price will eventually go down. If you absolutely HAVE to have this materia now, pay the price.

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Given that this materia is desirable not only for its accuracy stat but also for two relics, it wouldn't hurt for SE to up the rate at which this materia can be created.

Demand is only one half of the equation. SE can help stabilize the other half by giving a nudge in the supply department.

They don't have to make it as common as Manathirst, but theres no reason why they can't do a little something.

Just a dumb decision to make one of the most rare materia (4-7% chance) be used for TWO relics. Meanwhile Manathirst IV and MND IV are like 40k.

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Originally Posted by Aratharn

Just a dumb decision to make one of the most rare materia (4-7% chance) be used for TWO relics. Meanwhile Manathirst IV and MND IV are like 40k.

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Are you willing to test out if that materia drops more often from weapons than non-weapons?
That is a damn good analysis but it seems to ignore weapons altogether unless i'm bad at reading.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Heaven's eye is being inflated drastically cause it is used for 2 relics, all other relic materia prices are relatively stable, and manathirst is cheap because it is a common spiritbond item. Prices won't drop for a while, as this content is still high in demand.

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On Masamune crit rate materia has jumped from 600-700k to 1.6-2m in a day.
The price on Obelisk jumped 10m last night from 20-25m to 35+

People are out of their minds lol.

yea it is kind of odd how pld and brd share materia. I would have thought Bloodwall IV (def) would have been the materia for pld. I guess if you're going for those first just SB a ton of belts while killing beastmen for coins lol. Hope you get lucky

There is a severe imbalance when it comes to these said materia. Now perhaps it's balanced by the fact that maybe one weapons is easier to make then the other but I do have doubts about that. If you looked at the GM cost of materia you see the following: All IV
Manathirst=16k (MNK)
Mind=20k (WHM)
Heaven Eye=86k (BRD/PLD)
Hell Fist=86k (BLM)
Touch of Rage=86k(WAR)
Savage Might=86k(DRG)

From the above we can assume that SE favors WHM/MNK since they seem to have it easiest when it comes to materia XD the other are actually balanced though. Honestly though they could have balanced them all by doing the following:

DRG=Heaven Fist
BRD=Savage Might
BLM=Hell Fist
WAR=Battledance
WHM=Sagacious Might
PLD=Touch of Rage
MNK=Heaven Eye

All the above cost 86k GM to obtain and are useable by said weapon. Unless I"m mistaken bout both WHM/BLM being 2-handed lol. But overall it would fix the problem with 1 materia on 2 weapons but what they could do it just give players both options to hopefully alleviate the issue that some may have with obtaining said materia.
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Hm.. not sure if anyone has produced a guide on it all but since I went on this tangent here's the below lol

Now if we take a look at the original list we get this:
Manathirst=Hand/Rings/5Arms=4 spiritbond at a time
MND=Head/Rings/4Arms=4 spiritbond at a time
Heaven Eye=Head/Waist/3Arms=3spiritbond at a time
Hell Fist=Hand/Waist/Rings/2Arms=5 spiritbond at a time
Touch of Rage=Waist/Bracelet/2Arms=3 spiritbond at a time
Savage Might=Hands/Waist/3Arms=3 spiritbond at a time

Hands=Manathirst/Hell Fist/Savage Might=3/9 chance to obtain
Rings=Manathirst/MND/Hell Fist=3x2/7 chance to obtain
Head=Heaven's Eye/MND=2/10 chance to obtain
Waist=Heaven Eye/Hell Fist/Touch of Rage/Savage Might=4/15 chance to obtain
Bracelet=Touch of Rage=1/7 chance to obtain

ARMS:
Puglist=Manathirst/Heaven Eye=2/8 chance to obtain
THM/Con 1-Arm=Manathirst/MND= THM=2/6 CON=2/7
THM/CON 2-Arm=Manathirst/Hell Fist= THM=2/7 CON=2/7
Gladiator=MND/Touch of Rage=2/9
Archer=MND/Heaven Eye/Savage Might=3/9
Lancer=Heaven Eye/Savage Might=2/8
Marauder=Touch of Rage/Savage Might=2/8

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It seems like if any "materia" should be used twice it's Hell's Fist since a person can get 5 chances to obtain it through 1 round of spiritbonding. The ACC one which is used by 2 relics only has 3 chances at a time and looking further down at it the odds of obtaining from those are
1/10 10% chance from head, then 33% chance of grade IV
1/15 6.6% chance from waist
1/8 12.5 % from Pugilist
1/9 11.1% from Archer
1/8 12.5% from Lancer

So when it comes to Hell's Eye the best method is to use either a Pugilist or Lancer Arm since they both have 1 less materia to obtain compared from Archer. Arms sadly the highest percentage to obtain it with the head/waist having even lower odds to obtain.

Let's look at Hell's Fist:
1/9 11.1% from hands
1/15 6.6% from waist
1x2/7 14.2% from ring
1/7 14.2% from THM 2H
1/7 14.2% from CON 2H

Not only does Hell's Fist have more potions but the rings which offer the highest along with the arms can also be equipped 2 at a time which increase your odds even more. So in one round of spiritbonding you have 3 14.2% chances of at least obtaining a Hell's Fist yet the ACC ones high est is only 12.5%

Some info may be inaccurate but I tried my best to keep it as accurate as possible, I can definitely see where the frustration comes from it seems like they just stuck whatever materia they thought fit best without considering the odd sof obtaining said materia. Because of this we have ACC materia which you only have 3 chances to obtain a spiritbond with the high % being 12.5% meanwhile there's Hell's Fist which you have 5 chances to obtain at a time with 3 14.2% chances to obtain.

Maybe if the devs take a look at the numbers they'll adjust it to at least balance out the materia conversion rate when it comes to the ACC materia since the above does explain why those are so expensive. It's because it takes longer to obtain said materia compared to something like hell's Fist.

get you own mats or spend alot of money. everyone knows anything you will need for something good will always go up in price because you'll pay for anyways or pay multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Are you willing to test out if that materia drops more often from weapons than non-weapons?
That is a damn good analysis but it seems to ignore weapons altogether unless i'm bad at reading.

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Well it's not my data, just something I stumbled upon.

I have also been curious if the % is any better on weapons but have not had the time to try.

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Originally Posted by indira

get you own mats or spend alot of money. everyone knows anything you will need for something good will always go up in price because you'll pay for anyways or pay multiple times.

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Thank you that was very insightful.

I'm 0/8 on Sarnga and I spiritbond at least 30 appropriate items a day (I'd be very lucky to get one Heaven's Eye IV out of this).
So as it stands, I can't make my own or buy them because the rate is too damn low and I'm poor.
I suggest simply increasing the chance of creating Heaven's Eye IV as this will not over complicate things and can be done without a huge cafuffle.

I'd just like to point out that this isn't a gil sink. Agil sink is a mechanism whereby gil is removerd from the economy. Regardless of the amount you pay for your materia that gil remains in the economy, just in somone elses inventory.

Good point, I think I meant redistribution of gil.

Yoshi-p said a while back that he going to do something about players having so much gil i guess this is pretty much his idea lol but sadly it's not taking away the money it just moving it to other players.

Technically a percentage is being removed.

Hmm... I still have guild marks. I should go see what I can buy. w

I wish you could pool all your guild marks.

I have 83k MRD marks... need 86k for Heavens Eye. Have 50k here, 30k there... too bad can't just add them all up.

i understand the frustration with the materia prices. it sucks.

but i personally spiritbound a lot of belts to get some heaven's eye IV...also traded with fellow LS members. 2mil per materia was outrageous.
maybe you are an unfortunate one whos friends only see $$ so that might not be an option.

grats on your meld though. i went 1/1 personally, then did another 1/5, and two more 2/9.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

I'd just like to point out that this isn't a gil sink. Agil sink is a mechanism whereby gil is removerd from the economy. Regardless of the amount you pay for your materia that gil remains in the economy, just in somone elses inventory.

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Unless we are buying te weapons from GM's mules. Hummmm

One thing perhaps to keep in mind is:
If it is challenging to make your own materia, you can still make other high-demand materia, sell it, then use that gil to buy the materia you really want.

For example, if it is hard to make Heavens Eye, perhaps you can still make Intelligence, sell that, then use the gil for buying the Materia you really want.

the thing is- it isn't a real gil sink. all it does is redistribute the gil to the people selling the materia. (and i suspect there are a lot of RMT PL/burn parties spiritbonding stuff day and night with this explicitly in mind)

if square wants to remove gil from the economy before 2.0 through relic quest (and they should absolutely try), all they have to do is make the materia purchasable from an NPC for a reasonable price. even if it's 500k each, that's still better than the 1-3mil/ea. prices some materia are trending toward.

poor design.

I don't think it's poor design at all. At the end of the day it's up to the community to decide on prices. And unless you have you 9 seals and 25k note, which I doubt, then there is no point in rushing to get your double meld weapon when the prices are high. The demand is so high they can get away with high prices. Wait a little, and the prices will eventually drop . Double melded avengers went from 30mil to 14mil in 2 weeks. Just have to be patient :-D

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Originally Posted by nvidianello

I don't think it's poor design at all. At the end of the day it's up to the community to decide on prices.

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community has no control over intentional/artificial inflation at the hands of RMT.

pay attention to your market. when you go from 20 savage might IV (or heaven's fist, or hell's eye) to 50+ seemingly overnight, and the price is going *up*, something is awry.

and furthermore, even if RMT weren't in the picture and assuming the community didn't participate in the inflation- it still only redistributes gil rather than removing it from the economy. that doesn't help the inflation situation at all.

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Originally Posted by fusional

pay attention to your market. when you go from 20 savage might IV (or heaven's fist, or hell's eye) to 50+ seemingly overnight, and the price is going *up*, something is awry.

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Pay attention to Supply and Demand curve its Eco 101. As prices increase it makes the opportunity cost of producing these Materia more worth it so more will be put on the market. Obv the demand for them makes them worth however much they are otherwise people would SB themselves if the price is too high.

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Originally Posted by Arksniper

Pay attention to Supply and Demand curve its Eco 101. As prices increase it makes the opportunity cost of producing these Materia more worth it so more will be put on the market. Obv the demand for them makes them worth however much they are otherwise people would SB themselves if the price is too high.

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supply/demand and price inflation makes sense when stocks are depleting or staying constant. when stock is increasing and price is increasing, which is generally what's happening with most of these materia (heaven's eye being an exception on some servers simply by virtue of being used for two relics)- it goes against the general behavior of supply/demand and renders your argument invalid.

want a good example of supply/demand in action? compare prices and supply of beastcoins a week ago to prices and supply of beastcoins today.

i meld a lot. i sell triple and quad melds. i watch the market closely. and either you're viewing this through a fog of idealism or you don't really know what's going on here.

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Originally Posted by fusional

supply/demand and price inflation makes sense when stocks are depleting or staying constant. when stock is increasing and price is increasing, which is generally what's happening with most of these materia (heaven's eye being an exception on some servers simply by virtue of being used for two relics)- it goes against the general behavior of supply/demand and renders your argument invalid.

want a good example of supply/demand in action? compare prices and supply of beastcoins a week ago to prices and supply of beastcoins today.

i meld a lot. i sell triple and quad melds. i watch the market closely. and either you're viewing this through a fog of idealism or you don't really know what's going on here.

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Looking at my server the sell list is at least 20 more per day with 40 sitting on the AH. There are many forces at work here too so i'm not looking through some idealist fog. Before Relics were introduced the materia on my server was around 200-400k iirc. It is currently hovering around 1 mil.

Looking at the current price selling history it has a fluctuation from 998k to 1.380 mil it has slowly crept up over time but this is due to the raise in demand for people who are looking to make some money and have the capital to put forth for it as they will pass it on to the buyer + profit. It is simply more valuable now than it was back then as 2 Relics depend on it.

With the double meld success rate at around 16% you are looking at a 1/6ish ratio of successful melds so its around 14 materia per weapon on average. So the stock can get run thru in at least 2 days if it isnt constantly replenished and sometimes the stock falls down to 20ish where 10 are at 999,999,999,999 as a placeholder or some other absurd price.

Also looking at the RMT on my server around Cedarwood they aren't wearing SB gear to make this materia. I also find it hard to believe that someone on each server is buying out the supply just to jack the prices. Most likely they are coming from the SB party shouts I see every day and people realizing they can make a decent buck xping with the right hands/necklace

This all just confirms we all need to stop and make some SB grind parties and all get rich now before 2.0

People horded millions of gil for this exact opportunity waiting for something worthwhile to spend their gil on and now we have it.

I really like the idea that we could buy the materia from an NPC this would drain the economy and stabalize the materia market. I think 500k would be awsome for an upper cap.

Heavens Eye IV used to be 20K each on Lindblum.
Shoulda bought em then. ._.

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Originally Posted by Arksniper

Pay attention to Supply and Demand curve its Eco 101. As prices increase it makes the opportunity cost of producing these Materia more worth it so more will be put on the market. Obv the demand for them makes them worth however much they are otherwise people would SB themselves if the price is too high.

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Uh, if there's a lot of supply to meet the demand, the prices should go down not up nor should it continue to skyrocket.

I wouldn't complain if they decided to raise the conversion rate of Heavens' Eye IV up a bit.

I've gone through a lot of equipment (main-hand, head, waist) and have gotten mostly Heavens' Eye III.