Echo in Raids

Please add Echo to normal raids.
In Stormblood onwards, there's no difference between a normal raid and a trial other than the fact that normal raids don't give you echo upon a wipe.

This is painful in the later parts of the Eden series, especially E12 where you additionally have to go through the extremely long adds phase again in order to get to the second half of the fight.

It shouldn't just be Savage raids that get easier to do synced when the next patch drops.

E12 is already a yawn fight, even the times when people decided to die and left me soloing it. I don't see how the Echo is needed. A healer can just stop doing DPS and spam shields and heals if people are struggling that much.

E12 needs a checkpoint after the platforms. It's an obnoxiously-designed fight.

That said, I don't think most of the bosses live long enough to need the Echo. Echo only really helps with passing damage checks, the big killers in most raids are mechanics. A damage bonus won't help when the Refurbisher absorbs too many adds and explodes because nobody was handling the generators.

I feel like most times I've seen a wipe in roulette, it's just because people don't know or don't remember the mechanics. The second attempt is almost always much better and often clears.

As mentioned above, yeah Refurbisher can cause a lot of problems, and I've seen multiple wipes in that one. It can get pretty bad. But I also agree that adding Echo is not going to be what makes or breaks it. People just need to coordinate and do the mechanics properly, it's a pass or fail. Same with that one where you can become birds to avoid the ground slam, or a gorilla to smack bombs away.

I guess I just never noticed raids don't give you echo, but trials do..?? Why is that? Guess I sort of have to agree with OP that this is at least inconsistent. Most raids now are basically just a single boss fight, same as trials.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Echo only really helps with passing damage checks, the big killers in most raids are mechanics. A damage bonus won't help when the Refurbisher absorbs too many adds and explodes because nobody was handling the generators.

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Echo helps with more than just DPS, it increases HP, Heal Strength, and Shield Strength. The ability to survive more than 1-2 failed mechanics definitely helps new people get through the duty.
Honestly if a party wipes enough to build up an echo in normal mode just let them have it.

Ew no. Remove echo from the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Astrahime

Please add Echo to normal raids.
In Stormblood onwards, there's no difference between a normal raid and a trial other than the fact that normal raids don't give you echo upon a wipe.

This is painful in the later parts of the Eden series, especially E12 where you additionally have to go through the extremely long adds phase again in order to get to the second half of the fight.

It shouldn't just be Savage raids that get easier to do synced when the next patch drops.

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so, i will not score points with this reply, however i will say what i must here. in an earlier post you told me u didnt think the game needed any more difficulty checks and was fine as it is. now u want the echo introduced into fights to literally nerf the mecanics into oblivion. this is the exactly mentality i was talking about. they should not do this. people should not have clears handed to them for no effort at all other than just "u wiped 10 times now u get pity clear"

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Echo helps with more than just DPS, it increases HP, Heal Strength, and Shield Strength. The ability to survive more than 1-2 failed mechanics definitely helps new people get through the duty.
Honestly if a party wipes enough to build up an echo in normal mode just let them have it.

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The problem is that the mechanics that usually cause wipes either deal so much damage that the Echo is irrelevant, or they skip damage entirely and just outright kill you. The Echo doesn't really matter much for cases like Refurbisher absorbing too many adds, or the rift phase against Nabriales, or too many people trying to greed on Phlegethon.

To be clear, I'm not outright saying not to add it. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't really add anything useful.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

so, i will not score points with this reply, however i will say what i must here. in an earlier post you told me u didnt think the game needed any more difficulty checks and was fine as it is. now u want the echo introduced into fights to literally nerf the mecanics into oblivion. this is the exactly mentality i was talking about. they should not do this. people should not have clears handed to them for no effort at all other than just "u wiped 10 times now u get pity clear"

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I never said that, you're thinking about someone else. I'm the person that told you to run palace of the dead to know what a job's level 1 rotation is. I agreed that you shouldn't be able to buy job skips off-the-bat. Are you thinking about the fact that i said that Thordan is unsalvagably easy?

Also even with the mighty 50% echo that you're able to get in normal mode trials (which takes 20+ minutes of fighting to get) you're still going to die if you fuck up titania's adds.

Giving normal raids the 5% echo up to 25% that EX trials get isn't going to make it faceroll easy. If you keep dying to super death lasers, that isn't going to make you win.

Do you know how it feels to spend 6 minutes fighting in a raid, just to die because half the party died right after the reaper used LB3, one of the healers doesn't know how to dodge untelegraphed AoEs, and your RDM is out of mana, and know that that time is completely wasted?

I wouldn't even be saying this if it wasn't for the fact that Savage Raids have echo for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Astrahime

I never said that, you're thinking about someone else. I'm the person that told you to run palace of the dead to know what a job's level 1 rotation is. I agreed that you shouldn't be able to buy job skips off-the-bat. Are you thinking about the fact that i said that Thordan is unsalvagably easy?

Also even with the mighty 50% echo that you're able to get in normal mode trials (which takes 20+ minutes of fighting to get) you're still going to die if you fuck up titania's adds.

Giving normal raids the 5% echo up to 25% that EX trials get isn't going to make it faceroll easy. If you keep dying to super death lasers, that isn't going to make you win.

Do you know how it feels to spend 6 minutes fighting in a raid, just to die because half the party died right after the reaper used LB3, one of the healers doesn't know how to dodge untelegraphed AoEs, and your RDM is out of mana, and know that that time is completely wasted?

I wouldn't even be saying this if it wasn't for the fact that Savage Raids have echo for some reason.

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Have you ever cleared E12 savage when it was on-content? The healing and DPS checks were no joke, and there is the 2nd encounter, so obviously echo for savage is totally warranted after because it still requires knowing mechanics or wipe.

The normal content you can blaze through even with half the party being pretty bad in DPS in sync'd gear. Normals don't need any echo, ever.

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Originally Posted by technole

Have you ever cleared E12 savage when it was on-content? The healing and DPS checks were no joke, and there is the 2nd encounter, so obviously echo for savage is totally warranted after because it still requires knowing mechanics or wipe.

The normal content you can blaze through even with half the party being pretty bad in DPS in sync'd gear. Normals don't need any echo, ever.

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have you ever tried E12 normal with healers that don't know how Stock works and no DPSes that can combat raise?

Also that same argument can be used to take echo out of normal trials, but there it's even stronger than in EX trials.

I'd rather they keep Echo away from NRs except maybe after 2nd wipe or so.

Floors with awesome BGM like e8n final phase don't even get to play up to its chorus nowadays.