I'll include my own two cents in a moment, but I've started this thread to hear from you all:
What appear to be some of the "low-hanging fruit", so to speak, that the devs might pluck in order to make noticeable improvements to combat content at relatively little development cost?
The more broadly and cheaply the improvement can be made/applied, the better, but feel free not to restrict yourself to that.
What Are Some Easy Wins for Improving Combat Content?
Printable View
-
09-10-2023, 03:37 PMShurrikhanWhat Are Some Easy Wins for Improving Combat Content?
-
09-10-2023, 03:38 PMShurrikhan
Shortlist from ideas thus far:
- Desynchronize damage-contributing CDs that are currently "obligatorily" or "automatically" synced to the 2-minute raid buff cycles.
Decrease or increase the above abilities' recast/recharge times to sync up less often with 2-minute raid buffs and/or provide flexibly timed uses between raid buff cycles (for example, a 90s CD syncs with 2-minute raid buffs only at the start and then once per 6 minutes; a 2-charge 40s CD has one flexibly-timed use per 2 minutes, a 2-charge 30s CD 2 flexibly-timed uses per 2 minutes, etc.). Use former timings where sufficient (such as a 90s Guren/Senei).
- Vary the raid buffs timers themselves.
This may cause one's averaged aDPS+rDPS to vary more with which jobs surround them, but mostly spreads out the volume of %effective-damage increases from raid buffs so that desyncs caused by deaths are less costly and the timings of some further CDs may become obligatory in the presence of other jobs (e.g., per-60s per per-90s raid-buffers).
- Add further options for reducing VFX Clutter.
Separate the VFX layers currently made cull-able under Character Settings -> Control Settings (Character) -> Battle Effect Settings into "Broad Visual Effects" and "Near Visual Effects" and add Opacity sliders for both. Beneath these options, create two further sliders for... "Increasingly reduce opacity of overlapping visual effects (Reduce maximum visual clutter)" and "Apply transparency to effects where blocking view of target," which further decrease opacity.
- Increase the flexibility of the jobs most bottlenecked by certain inflexible timers or gauge maximums where that lack of flexibility also reduces the skill ceiling on the job.
For instance, perhaps (A) allow the recast time of Soul Slice / Soul Scythe to scale with GCD speed and/or (B) Reducing the cooldown of Soul Slice to 6 GCDs for 400 potency and 20 gauge generated but have generate a stack of Harrowing Scythe every 2 further GCDs' time it allowed to cool, each of which grant it an additional 20 potency and 10 gauge generated, up to a maximum of 3 stacks. Chimes and slightly changes appearance at 3 stacks. In this way, RPRs would have slightly more agency over the timing of their gauge generation and expenditure at relatively low maximum/theoretical potency cost given the changes above.
- More reasonably sized (less obese) boss hit-boxes.
Effective-uptime strategizing should be (at least) as much a concern for melee as for casters. While positionals are impacting effective uptime less and less, so too are casters becoming increasingly mobile, but that still doesn't excuse Melee having nigh guaranteed full uptime via oversized boss hitboxes while casters still have movement optimizations to deal with. If anything, both should have a lower floor to their uptime, allowing for more skill expression therethrough.
- Reduce truly needless button-bloat.
If a skill can only be used after another, and the first cannot be reused (due to its recast time or anything else rigidly preventing it) for the whole time the follow-up action can be used (as in Namikiri Ready for 30s, which can only occur after incurring the 120s CD of Ikishoten), there is no reason for the follow-up action to require an additional button, and there should at least be an unencumbered option to consolidate them, or even direct consolidation for all. Likewise, if there is never any reason to waste the follow-up action before recasting the initial action (as in Draw->Play), they should (have the unencumbered option to) be consolidated.
If a skill is only technically usable (as a trap) outside of a particular sequence (see true "combos"), then there should likewise be an unencumbered option to consolidate that sequence into a single key.
My $0.02, skipping what's already been mentioned:- Allow all actions to properly queue, including even Potions, Sprint, and the first contextually-usable action within any given macro.
This allows for players to set up their macros as they wish. While macros are not the most intuitive of designs compared to button consolidation, they are also far more flexible. While this provision will not better (i.e., without loss of queuing ability on actions after the first) allow for multiple actions to be used with a single button-press, it will fully allow for multiple actions per button, so long as only the actions are effectively mutually exclusive (one can only be used in melee range, or when off cooldown, or on party members, or when procced, etc., while successive alternatives are increasingly less constrictive).
- Grant Minimum Item Level runs proportionately increased drop chance for each potential reward from the given instance based on the Party's average Item Level (and therefore, expected throughput) lost in syncing down to said Minimum Item Level. Allow players to queue for Roulettes as they would for specific duties (e.g., up to 5 options selected among Roulettes and/or Specific Duties). Allow for Minimum Item Level runs of a given instance or roulette to be queued separately from and simultaneously with their normal versions (new check-mark in the main duty pane).
If a mount had a 1% chance to drop before, and the party lost 30% of its theoretical throughput for syncing down from using the Minimum Item Level setting, that drop chance would increase to 1.3% chance. This is on average only faintly more reward-efficient (except where the party might otherwise have disproportionately saved time in skipping a phase) due to spending a higher portion of total time in combat and due reward rather than in loading in and exiting, and mostly just stands as a balanced option for higher difficulty.
- Provide visible/audible confirmation of successful positionals (and/or warning of failed positionals).
Provide four independent options in this regard for <On Successful Positional> | <On Failed Positional> | <Neither>: Floating Combat Marker, On-target Visual Effect, Discrete Sound Effect, Filtered Sound Effect of the Original Skill.
These simply better allow for players to actually notice whether they are succeeding in hitting their positionals, which can thereby promote engagement with and improvement in doing so. - Add Filtration Options also to your Target's and Focus Target's Status Effects.
In addition to your status effects always being shown on targets, there are now four additional and independent [Show | Hide] options for what Status Effects from other players are shown on Friendly Targets and Non-friendly Targets: <Effects Which Can Affect or be Affected by You>, <Periodic Damage or Healing Effects>, <Other Harmful Effects (Stunned, Damage Down, etc.)>, and <Other Beneficial Effects (Damage Up, Defense Up, etc.)>. The player may also reorder these options to affect the order in which they are shown.
Where the categories overlap, the effect will be shown if any of its relevant categories are shown. For instance, if you can cleanse, then cleansible damage over time effects will be shown if either <Effects Which Can Affect or be Affected by You> or <Periodic Damage or Healing Effects> are shown, and if an effect has both increases damage dealt and impairs the target, it will be shown if either <Effects Which Can Affect or be Affected by You> or <Other Harmful Effects> are shown. - Improve/increase the options available for controllers to quickly and intuitively target specific units (especially, specific party members).
For example, allow for the DPAD to select a particular party member directly (wherein each party member, including self, has a customizable set cardinal or semi-cardinal direction) or a button to repurpose either joystick from camera turning or character movement to instead moving between filtered potential targets based on angle and depth of the joystick's push.
Ideally, go further, allowing for spells to be retargeted mid-cast, and allow for the spells and abilities themselves to filter the relevant targets. Also allow casted spells to act automatically as a repurposing key for the movement joystick while being held down (if released, they no longer stop movement).
- Slightly simplify and standardize reward-efficiency across content types.
Merge Poetics and endgame non-weekly capped tomestones, but increase their cap to 5000. Automatically convert excess rewards (such as weekly-capped tomestone once capped) to the next-lesser reward form (e.g., Poetics). Slightly reduce the reward-efficiency of outliers like Hunts and Expert Roulette to bring them more in line, while increasing the reward efficiency of other content types likewise to match.
This is just a very simple, easy, pretty uncontroversial leveling of the playing field such that player participation might better scale with players' intrinsic interest in each content type, and thereby giving a better representation of players' intrinsic engagement with(in) each content type as to better inform later content creation. - Minor UI Adjustments to increase visibility of other's actions.
Have non-casted actions, too, briefly show on the Party Frame and (Focus) Target castbars ("progress bars"), revealing one's last action taken. Allow players to include their GCD timer and last GCD action used within their own Progress Bar. This will show the remaining time until one's next action is available and will apportion cast times to the global recast interval ["GCD length"] (a 3s cast on a 2.5s GCD would extend the cast bar beyond its normal maximum length, while a 1.5s cast would start from 60% down the Cast Bar).
This is a quick, simple, initial step for giving ostensible weight (especially to/for new players) to being aware of one's party members' actions while also giving more veteran players an easier time of helping to track and thereby advise new players' actions.
- Desynchronize damage-contributing CDs that are currently "obligatorily" or "automatically" synced to the 2-minute raid buff cycles.
-
09-10-2023, 03:41 PMSupersnow845
Desynchronise a lot of the oGCD’s classes press for damage with no interaction from their nice cool-downs to reduce the impact of the two minute meta without having to redesign the jobs to hell and back
If say DRK had some funky CD’s for a lot of its random oGCD bloat that didn’t really align with the burst window (things like 50 seconds or 40 seconds etc) you could trim the burst APM and increase the out of burst APM without really changing the job design much -
09-10-2023, 04:01 PMShurrikhanSo, to apply this policy in quick fashion (to check that I'm understanding you correctly):Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
- Select roughly half of each job's offensive CDs with obligatory timings that are held for or inadvertently sync to the 2-minute window.
- Decrease or increase the above's cooldowns to sync less often (inadvertently or per "obligatory" banking) to that 2-minute window, perhaps offering to multi-charge CDs at least one use per 2 minutes of flexible timing. Tune potency commensurately. (Perhaps prefer former timings where they already met these objectives.)
And if we were to apply this to DRK, we might get something like...- Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain moved to a 40s CD with 2 charges.
- Living Shadow moved to a 90s CD.
- Potencies adjusted accordingly, either from these skills themselves or by siphoning potency for their added frequency from actions which still remain banked for the 2-minute bursts, such as Edge/Flood.
- If this still decreases DRK's aRPG margin by less than the policy's application would to competing jobs in role, additionally attach an MP cost to Shadowbringer and perhaps Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain while increasing MP generation accordingly, thereby shifting some further potency out of the 2-minute burst window.
Am I understanding that quick fix about correctly?
P.S. 40s aligns with the 120s [40x3] burst window but has one freely timeable use per 120s at 2 charges. -
09-10-2023, 04:35 PMAravell
I can think of 2 ways off the top of my head to improve the combat system:
1) Diversify self and raid buff timers across all jobs again
If you clump everything into one singular window across 2 minutes, it severely limits job design and makes the rotation across the other one and a half minutes to become an extremely barebones resource builder segment. I'm not saying a builder/spender job design is inherently bad, but having every job fill this type of design just causes the combat system to become infinitely stale.
Allowing a spread of timers also allows people to drift and align as convenient for them. For example, in E12S, MNK didn't want to pop their 90s on Basic Relativity, so they can choose to delay to align with 120s. After that, either the party as a whole can delay their own things by 30s so the MNK naturally realigns again or the MNK can delay their next two 90s by another 30s to realign themselves back at the risk of losing one use of their buff.
2) Remove the absolutely rigid design of some jobs
Let's take SMN and RPR for example.
SMN as it is now is absolutely incapable of delaying their rotation in any way without throwing away a lot of damage. Now let's say SMN gets a new trait, everytime they use up all 3 gemstones, they get a buff called Empowered Ruin V. Empowered Ruin V will increase the potency of Ruin III by 150, after which the buff changes to Empowered Ruin IV, which increases the potency of Ruin III by 120, and so on, reducing by 30 each time. This allows SMN to delay their loop with diminishing returns as it goes longer, which would be unoptimal in normal play but also not completely destroy their rotation flow if they need to delay for whatever reason.
Now RPR, RPR as it is now is extremely rigid, they absolutely hate downtime because it throws their gauges out of whack unless they overcap repeatedly during their builder phase. Some minor changes that could fix that would be if Soul Slice gave 70 gauge instead of 50 if your gauge is currently at 0, or if Slice/Waxing Slice/Infernal Slice gave 20 gauge instead of 10 if your gauge is currently at 0. Also Gluttony being a 55s CD instead of a 60s would help with bad alignment as well. -
09-10-2023, 04:51 PMZairava
[Resists inserting long winded DRK theorycraft for the nth time]
To be serious, I want our damage to be more spread out rather than too reliant on big meaty hits every 2 minutes. For raid buffs and cooldowns to be more spread out again. This should make it easier to make more jobs rotations have more distinguishable different flows.
I want [more] kit interaction within the tanks. There's a woeful lack of it at the moment. If they are going to move forward with the tank responsibilities they keep streamlining, then it would be nice to have our kits compensate for losing them.
Take for example, because it's easier for me to list, Dark Arts. It doesn't really exist now, but if they were to bring Dark Arts back and find a way to fit it in so that we have some meaningful kit interactions (modifying/empowering abilities or otherwise) and player agency, it would be a much welcome change. It would require some trimming, but it would be better for the job as a whole, imo. -
09-10-2023, 08:58 PMZeastria
[More reactive and responsive gameplay]
1) Improvent visual clues and less bright light/distractions that serve no purpose...
2) Remove scripted fights.. it should be RNG based, only few abilties, stages should be based on hp %.
3) Rework the whole infrastructure of the game engine, so we no longer have clipping issues.
4) Seperated global-cds ; None-dps (buffs,heals,defensives..ect) abilties shouldnt share globalcd with DPS abilites!
5) More defined roles ( role responsibilities); not every role ingame should be a DPS with a tank/heal skin ..
Every role should be dependent on one another to succeed!!!! -
09-10-2023, 09:08 PMSupersnow845On your 2nd point T7S is a perfect example of why that design does not work, T7S is a god awful fight that rivals the ultimates in difficulty and it’s all because of its phase push designQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
-
09-10-2023, 11:42 PMZeastriaBad game design can ruin the concept ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
So it isnt just one sided issue there -
09-11-2023, 04:56 AMShurrikhanQuestions and Critiques:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
Could you elaborate?
Alternatively, here are some potential interpretations: (A) rather than only being able to choose which particle effects are drawn in at all, allow players to determine the opacity of those layers of VFX; (B) much like ally outlines being visible through walls in a team-based shooter, attach superseding opacity masks (of conditional strength) to enemies and perhaps allies, allowing their positions and their own visual tells to be visible even when prominent VFX are going off between them and the camera. Would any of those interpretations suffice?
2.
Wholly removing scriptedness from fights would largely mean removing most contribution to the rhyme, rhythm, or reason across fights and would likely result in a net decrease in apparent skill ceiling for most players. There is also the whole spectrum between 0% scriptedness and 100% scriptedness.
It's also worth considering what a mechanic even is as players perceive it. If a boss performs a "mechanic" that gives players no directed action or means of optimization to deal with it, players are not going to feel it, but by and large what players feel comes from interacting/synergetic sets of mechanics, or the transitions between them, where "Be at A" flowing to "Be at B" creates a limited window for player movement that may require CDs or banked procs to maintain uptime.
And that's all without accounting for your reducing every boss fight to "only few abilities"... I do not understand the motive for this request. Why so simplify fights in this way, regardless of whether it allows for randomization to that "Simon Says" among mechanics A, B, or C?
Finally, stages based solely on %HP tend to be unintuitive bottlenecked nightmares, as seen in almost any challenging fight that had such %HP phase shifts. You can do something similar, but it absolutely needs restriction.
3.
This likely would not require any change to the game engine. The effect can already be had via plugins already. The base game simply includes an extra command to reset one's animation lock timers (and without a reduced remaining value based on time spent in that animation lock thus far or based upon roundtrip ping) upon receiving a confirmation message from the server, causing one's animation locks to be extended by their roundtrip ping. Simply removing command (which does not appear to need to exist) fixes the issue entirely, as would a reduced duration on the refreshed animation lock based on the time between query sent and confirmation received.
4.
I do not understand the motive behind this. This seems like it would further cripple healer decision-making.
5.
You may need to give examples of your intended result, but this likewise does not seem like it'd be a "quick fix" even if the intended policy were more concretely clear.
Overall:
I suspect the game could manage certain cheaply/easily applicable policies that could make the game feel at least slightly more responsive or reactive, but I do not suspect that these are great ways to go about getting there.
Randomization of some aspects of fight design, for instance, tends to require relatively rigid contexts in surrounding actions (be those through bundled sets of actions, or certain actions being disallowed during or within X seconds of the one randomly selected, or total damage output being decreasingly restricted over time since a given damage peak based on that peak's height, etc.). That does not mean that you can't have randomization nor that it cannot be helpful; we've already seen a degree of that in a particularly iconic Shadowbringers Extreme Trial, for instance. But it does need to have its permitted contexts as rigidly mapped out as a script would, else you cannot finely tune the fight's difficulty, which will in turn likely lead to a far clunkier and less engaging fight than even a wholly scripted one.
For a quickly-applicable policy to be made, we'd need to know which mechanics ought to be varied, to what threshold of bundling, and within what parameters. Precision there will be essential if you want tight tuning, which, so long as there are quick follow-up requirements (of healing, movement, etc.) added after the landmark mechanics, will probably the more noticeable contributor to fights needing more "responsiveness". -
09-11-2023, 08:35 AMZeastria1) In ffxiv many clues often get drowned in a lot of other stuff happening at the same time – Often beeing unclear and short.. Some are outright terrible vauge and easy to miss...sometimes animation dosnt match.. ect.. skills going off before the castbar..ectQuote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
(Beeing able to filter out the information or show less would help ofc..)
2.By non-scripted ; It dosn't mean less abilites, rather it means you have to pay more attetion to the boss -- Because it's abilites are going to happen in random order ( and you have to adjust after the boss at all times) – For this to work you need clear clues(less cluster at screen)..
You cannot follow a set pattern with this.(the same boss will never be 100% the same..ect)
Only the big abilites should be build around hp %, so players know when to expect such abilites.
3.I was talking about player position not being registered .
Like you can die to aoe you clearly didnt stand it..bc the sever didnt read your new position.
4. Make more sense when you consider it with point 2..
Also it sux to use an global cd heal, and have to wait to press your dps button..
because they share global cd.
5. Not gonna put effort into something none will read..
Most people here don't even read what i say..they make up assumption and twist my words.. -
09-11-2023, 08:54 AMShurrikhanI'm aware of what problem you wish to address. I was asking how you wish for it to be addressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
(The thread is attempting to compile improvements/solutions that can be performed easily and efficiently, not just the problems that may be lucrative to address.)
Could you explain then what you meant by "Should be RNG based, only few abilities"?Quote:
2.By non-scripted ; It dosn't mean less abilites, rather it means you have to pay more attetion to the boss
Is that not to say that there should be only few abilities, but instead... that only a few abilities should be RNG based (which would leave the fight still mostly scripted)? What is your intended meaning?
The remaining concerns stated earlier still appear to hold, also.
So not "clipping issues", but instead issues caused by latency and/or inconsistent actuation times (AoEs snapshotting their hit checks before the cast bar completes)?Quote:
3.I was talking about player position not being registered .
Like you can die to aoe you clearly didnt stand it..bc the sever didnt read your new position.
We won't be cheaply able to improve issues consequent to latency, but we could potentially standardize actuation times to their most intuitive (e.g., snapshots checks precisely at the moment the cast completes) for relatively good effect compared to the efforts required, I would imagine.
Again, I don't understand your warrants here. Why would having no choice between dealing damage or healing and likely having maximum damage and healing each tuned down accordingly (because you can always do both simultaneously, effectively turning ALL heals into oGCDs) be preferable to having those choices and greater consequent maximum outputs of either (at the same total combined output)?Quote:
4. Make more sense when you consider it with point 2..
Also it sux to use an global cd heal, and have to wait to press your dps button..
because they share global cd.
Fair enough, I suppose. We'll skip that one, then.Quote:
5. Not gonna put effort into something none will read..
Most people here don't even read what i say..they make up assumption and twist my words..
Though if you're going to a majority of the effort to put your words into a thread at all, it makes little sense not to put in that bit more to make your words understood, no? No one here has thus far attempted to twist your words, only to understand what it is you want.
Suggested Policies/Solutions Thus Far (if I'm understanding you correctly):- Standardize outlier boss mechanics' actuation times to instead, like most mechanics, snapshot their hit checks at precisely the moment of cast time completion.
- Add (well-situated) randomization to the order of (sets of) boss mechanics in (a certain few to most) encounters that are currently entirely scripted. (Number/portion of encounters still to be defined. Still need more precise parameters for problem-free situating of these random-order [sets of] mechanics.)
-
09-11-2023, 09:22 AMZeastria2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
RNG-> The order the boss use abilites..
Few abilites --> i mean the expected abilities you face in a fight..(ones that actives when boss reach x % ones).
3.
Never experienced such issues in other mmos tho.
4. You will want to be able to use your abilites on very short notice - Dont think of the game as it is now.
Also the dmg output from the bosses should be higer..meaning just doing offglobal heal wouldnt be enough.
Ppl who dosnt pay attetion will be hit and ofc clues should be clear and stay long enough for players to react..
In ffxix you can just sleep most of the fight..if you have memorized it.
That's the issue with scripted fights.. its just the same thing over and over and over.
When you get good at the fights - it become very easy..
The only fun you can milk out of it..is if you get bunch of new ppl.
It may sounds like im super unhappy/negative about the current game, which isn't true ( i still play it everyday)
I just like thinking about other solutions,possible ways.
(im not saying what i suggest is the only way..i only share my opinion) -
09-11-2023, 06:35 PMReinhardt_Azureheim
Most people said already jobs and their cooldowns needing to be diversified and ripped out of the 2min sync, so apart from that...
I for one would appreciate if they stopped making bosses with galaxy-sized hitboxes taking anywhere from 60-90% of the room. Make melee work for their uptime again if we already are killing off positionals. -
09-11-2023, 07:05 PMElissar
Tera combat
-
09-11-2023, 08:25 PMReinhardt_AzureheimI've seen Tera combat. You are better off playing a game that sports tera combat - like Tera.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elissar
-
09-12-2023, 12:47 AMJirah
Nerf or remove Echo, its overpowered and makes content CT like and a crappy reward for wiping. Or maybe have it on if the party wipes multiple times or idk have it as a vote thing! Your raising poor players with this system
-
09-12-2023, 04:23 AMOgruMogru
Seeing as it's already common courtesy to have researched fights before you jump into a group, I would love to see practice modes of fights [ex, savage, maybe not ulti I feel like that would get people ruffled] so people can practice mechanics away from pressure from other people or making people feel like they have to lie to see prog. For savages and stuff let them unlock after the world race. People would be either going blind or waiting for a guide anyways. Bardam's Mettle style so no dps - just mechanics. You get it right you get a little tick over your head and you proceed, 3 strikes and you restart. People new to harder content can see if it's for them without judgement, people going thru PF can feel some control over their lives instead of being completely at the mercy of the state of the Pf scene on their servers, Static raiders can practice on their own time without being beholden to 7 other people or hijacking pf prog groups.
-
09-12-2023, 09:16 AMShurrikhan
Further Questions:
A small note: Further separating fresh runners into a separate category means we'll be going just from watching videos being a courtesy that's increasingly expected of people as difficulty and time since release increases... to further disallowing anyone from even learning mechanics immersively (e.g., per a winged/fresh run).Quote:
Originally Posted by OgruMogru
Is that a climate we want? If not, how might we provide similar benefits without these features further reducing gameplay options for others ("rude" though they might be outside a 'fresh' run premade / in parties for which at least a slight majority would likely have watched videos)?
Could similar benefits be had from just improving player means of joining a party at their specific progress level (with finer thresholds than in Raid Finder) in a manner that can't be lied about?
"Raising poor players" just as in getting them through a single threshold or also as in hurting their longer-term (chances at / rate of) improvement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah
What content are players pushed through by Echo that would otherwise be a particularly relevant learning experience, and is that loss to player learning likely to matter more to those players or those they will later encounter than the longevity of the content whose use cases are bolstered by Echo?
Despite what these questions might imply, I suspect I agree with you to an extent. One less arguable part, to my mind, is that Echo is gimmicky in that it is wholly bimodal, which can incentivize gimmickily gaming it by just having tanks and healers stay alive until having gotten just enough seconds to generate Echo, wiping, and repeating, so that the fight can then be cleared after. Such strikes me as too weak a deterrent for accessing that ease of a clear to really function as a deterrent (rather than merely an annoyance), at which point I have to ask why players not be allowed to just set the difficulty reduction modifier from the start if it is still to be permitted. Else, it feels like the requirements for further Echo, or the way the benefit scales with progress, should be revised to suit some other intended result than just trading preparatory time for ease of clear.
What aspects?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elissar
Would you, for instance, like to see 3D UI components to mark especially significant status effects like Stun, Chain Strategem, Mug, Barriers, etc.?
Would you like to have attacks with fixed movement properties (think En Avant as an AoE)? Do you want movement to be locked in somewhat during certain attacks, more generally (for fewer/less "floaty" animations as seen on a moving/gliding True Thrust or Venomous Bite)?
What are you looking for within that vast/vague umbrella of TERA-like combat?
Not to force you to crack open the whole DRK theorycraft again, but how might you generally exemplify your desired increased "kit interaction" among each tank? Are you looking to just give each tank one versatile tool extra that can make more out of one gauge or are you looking to have skills interact with each other (rather than just with one central node/modifier)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zairava
-
09-12-2023, 10:44 AMOgruMogruI should have specified that I was envisioning a solo instance for this, sorry! I wouldn't want to skip out the team experience at large, that would do more harm than good. I just want an in-game xivsim so it reduces the pressure and tension in PF. Whether that be with pared down mechanics, trust ai or a list of phase chapters so you can just nail down the one part of a fight you need to practice without either waiting in PF for hours, failing in PF for hours, or being unable to continue after the scheduled raid day with a static because people have to gone to bed or whatever. It shouldn't have to be mandatory and if people don't feel like they need it, it shouldn't be enforced as a requirement for entry to a party - but I'm just so desperate for some personal agency in my own ability to practice and learn fights, without having to first play a round of PVP. Hell even if there was some wizardry that could allow access to phases of the fight to practice only once you've actually reached it yourself outside of practice mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
If I'm in an orchestra, I can practice my part by myself. I don't just read the sheet music at home and try to imagine how it would sound. I practice my part so that when it's time to group up I can then practice on the performance at large and the nuances of playing with a group.
"Could similar benefits be had from just improving player means of joining a party at their specific progress level (with finer thresholds than in Raid Finder) in a manner that can't be lied about?" Possibly and that would probably be the most practical solution but that can still be disrupted by other players mentality or time constraints, even if the prog points are more well defined. -
09-14-2023, 05:01 AMShurrikhanIt would, but does it not also make each new fight seem that much less like an actual experience that players face together? I understand that XIV fights are already damn near solo instances played in tandem, but it just seems like that's not necessarily an impression that would serve the game best in the long run to enable, to the point that I can't help but look cautiously even on obvious QoL for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OgruMogru
Like, it makes sense. It can do good. I'm just hesitant to add a further paving stone down that path of streamlining out of concern for where that path may likely lead, if that makes sense?
Of course, there's also the problem of even situating this practice version, since often what ought to be done is strat-dependent. If you create a solo-instance practice version that either (A) it will have to pick a particular party strat to demonstrate --thereby pushing that strat onto the community and reducing the available fun of strat-building/-adjusting-- or (B) it can only really a mechanics-viewer (solely what the boss does, as you might see already in an Adventure Guide or the like with an embedded video player), rather than a party-actions viewer (i.e., what you[all] should about it).Quote:
If I'm in an orchestra, I can practice my part by myself. I don't just read the sheet music at home and try to imagine how it would sound.
Of those, I'd actually prefer the latter, as it's at least less invasive and acts as a better SSS alternative without necessarily seeming to so badly devalue the later party experience (little if any worse than being pushed to watch video guides in advance). -
09-16-2023, 04:43 AMMarxam
combining "proc skills" into one button would be my top priority. Things like AST Draw and Play, combined as one button (why this hasn't been years ago is baffling). Other examples include ogcds (1-2 mins) that once activated lets you use another ocgd/gcd exclusively. Things like Primal Rend, or Confiteor combo. These gcds can only be used IF you activate the skill that procs a buff to let you use it, so theoretically it is a dead button until you press that preceding button. Its even more baffling when you consider that pvp actions already do this so it has been proven in-game that ogcds can share the same button as gcds that are inherently linked to each other.
I just find a lot of redundant design just for the illusion of keeping busy to be increasing with each expansion. It's also hypocritical when they say they want to suppress button bloat but can't combine skills that synergize with each other. -
09-16-2023, 05:36 AMKatish
- Reduce button bloat and replace those said buttons with meaningful ones. (Especially healers)
- Remove redundant skills
- Add boss phase sequencing so that it would allow one job or job-type to excel over all other types, while also making those phases continuous in terms of switching between them. Or a buff for bosses where it reduces damage outside of a certain job role (These would be an indirect nerf to meta, as it forces you to save your high hits for that moment where you want to be the job exceling). Some less lazy examples to that can be individualized as below points where it's not a buff.
+ Healers
o Gimmick that allows heals to contribute to damage on some phase sequence. (Will not be applicable outside that phase) [For longer healer excel phases]
o Gimmick that allows bosses to freeze everyone taking collective HP into consideration and multiplying that by some amplification of max HP to incapsulate everyone outside healers in ice. It must be healed for that amount to free the party. [For varied healer phases]
o Gimmick that allows a boss to mark everyone with a long lasting esunable damage down debuff. [For shorter healer excel phases]
o Gimmick that kills everyone in the party outside the healers but bestows LB3 (Basically mandatory Tank LB3 but for healers) [For shorter healer excel phases]
+ Ranged
o Gimmick that lets the boss fly off the arena making it impossible for anyone to consistently hit them outside the range role. The movements in air are sporadic making it so spellcasters lose the spell their casting by having it interrupted sometimes.
o More gimmicks where Peloton can be used, where sprint will not be enough. (Can be like some collapsing area)
+ Spellcaster
o A pulsing barrier pushing everyone out close to the boss continuously for an amount of set time, and platforms that amplify spellspeed at the same time (while adding more cast spells to the other two casters).
+ Melee
o Field where everyone not close to boss does reduced damage (basically a boss Sacred Soil but for everyone on the outside of the range)
[Note these are only examples] -
09-16-2023, 06:58 AMLilimoLimomoI agree with this, though I want to add to it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
This may be covered by what you already wrote about traps, but for example, I would want BLM's Despair to be the same button as Blizzard III. In 99% of cases you would never want to cast Blizzard III when you could instead cast Despair; that remaining 1% edge case only exists because the BLM goofed and didn't leave themselves enough Astral Fire time to cast Despair, so they're casting Blizzard III to mitigate their mistake. I don't think that rare "already-messed-up" edge case is worth making these skills 2 different buttons, and I'd be surprised if there weren't other actions that could similarly be consolidated.
Redundant buttons should be removed or consolidated.
Bard has some great examples of this, though most classes have something in this vein:Empyreal Arrow and Sidewinder are both just cooldown damage oGCD's (and depending on your perspective, so is Bloodletter). This is just the same skill 2 (or 3) times with 2 (or 3) different buttons. Rather than adding redundant skills, just adjust the damage or cooldown of existing skills that are the same, so that players get the experience of using oGCD's more often without button bloat.
Similarly, Venemous Bite and Windbite are the same skill. It's unnecessary. Just allow a second stack of venom on targets or something so this can be one button. You're making a controller-friendly game, so don't add multiple skills unless they actually add something new to a class's rotation that is worth a whole new button.
Add an accessibility setting to hold buttons for fights with button-mashing mechanics
This is unreleated to button bloat, but it should be incredibly easy, and it's kind of stunning that this wasn't done long ago. Just a given if you care about your disabled/aged players. Easy win. -
09-16-2023, 07:31 AMASkellington
I dunno about "low development cost" I'm not sure how hard this would be to implement, but:
Better tab targeting.
Right now it doesn't seem very consistent. Its obvious in PvP but it certainly shows up in PvE as well - where you want to target the nearest enemy to you (likely infront of you) but instead it picks an enemy 20y away, or you're already targeting what's infront of you and you want to target off to another enemy near by (maybe to apply a DoT or to just switch to target with higher health) and it goes not to the next closest but one that's again farther away relatively.
Mouse Over support?
This is more of a PC thing than a controller one unfortunately, but being able to MO would be nice.
For Controller perhaps better party targeting support rather than just cycling through the list? -
09-16-2023, 08:10 AMShurrikhanWhether my wording would cover your wants is admittedly ambiguous, largely because I didn't want to overstate Marxam's suggestion in my paraphrasing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
There is another in the hidden box, though, that would cover this, in a fashion mentioned in your macro thread: Just un-neutering the macro system, by having it perform, with queuing, one action per button-press (as plugins can already do, by just undoing the flag telling it not to queue macro actions).
Add to that conditionals like range and movement and voila, you can have Thundercloud > Scathe > Thunder III all in one button, Fire IV > Despair > Blizzard III all in one button, etc., per user preference in button-flow.
True, but they both could be and have been distinct. Sidewinder used to require having one's DoTs up, back when they were 18s a little less reliably maintained. And EA, moreover, has the potential to overcap gauge or be more desirable if held a second to be used in the upcoming song instead (though, yes, simply weaving the song a second early instead is usually preferable).Quote:
Redundant buttons should be removed or consolidated.
Bard has some great examples of this, though most classes have something in this vein:
Empyreal Arrow and Sidewinder are both just cooldown damage oGCD's (and depending on your perspective, so is Bloodletter). This is just the same skill 2 (or 3) times with 2 (or 3) different buttons. Rather than adding redundant skills, just adjust the damage or cooldown of existing skills that are the same, so that players get the experience of using oGCD's more often without button bloat.
As such, it would be, to my mind, and equal or better solution to simply reinvigorate those abilities if/when/where possible.
They are, now that no context could ever make TTK difference matter, but for a moment... consider Iron Jaws. IJ itself is... almost negative gameplay, in its current form (increasing BRD's filler/proc_filler casts from 8 of 9 to 17 of 18 casts). If we consolidate VB and WB, we're still stuck with their being dead buttons due to Iron Jaws, whereas if we remove Iron Jaws, we're stuck only with 2 overly-alike DoTs that each see use... for which the best solution is just to, again, diversify them. Which would probably do BRD a lot of good.Quote:
Similarly, Venomous Bite and Windbite are the same skill.
Which is a verbose way to say I'd rather not have consolidation preclude improvements to the actual kit, and therefore would rather not lock in boring-ass abilities by consolidating them before even giving them a chance not to be so dull.
Similar BRD example: Refulgent Arrow. We just key-swipe (just hit button 1->2 together so that Refulgent goes off if possible, Burst Shot if not) that shit right now, making it so we don't even have to deal with what little "depth" it has by being a "hit when glowing" mechanic. But if could stack? If it had any time-sensitive synergies?
Given that we only see this in, what, at most three fights, and none of those uses are remotely interesting... I almost wonder if it'd be better just to remove those bloat QTEs entirely.Quote:
Add an accessibility setting to hold buttons for fights with button-mashing mechanics
This is unreleated to button bloat, but it should be incredibly easy, and it's kind of stunning that this wasn't done long ago. Just a given if you care about your disabled/aged players. Easy win.
How about, say, Compass / Party-Wheel Targeting?Quote:
Originally Posted by ASkellington
Steps:- Un-neuter macros and allow [st] / [soft] / [softtarget] as targeting options for abilities. Additionally, allow targeting procedures (such as [on-release], [@cursor], [@mouseover], [@UI, etc.] to be attached directly to skills via the Actions and Traits Pane.
- Allow players to simultaneously hold a Soft Target and "Hard" Target, perhaps with a UI component added for said Soft Target.
- Allow for a "Party Wheel", with a fair few sub-options. This places a radial display at the bottom of your screen that allow you to select, via joystick or D-PAD (but using Top, Top-and-Right, Right, etc., instead of having to list-cycle), the target of your next soft-targeted ability from a wheel of party members. What else is displayed in your Party Wheel is highly configurable, but let's say there's at least contextual display of icons (e.g., cleansable effects, who all has shield HP greater than what you could produce with a non-crit, and highlighting Melee DPS and, in a more subdued color, your tank when drawing a Melee Card) and compact option for HP display either as a compact bar, section divider bar, or as a background.
Optional center section (no D-PAD selection / no joystick nudge) into which you can place self, hard target, focus target, or a trickle-down through them in custom order (casting Malefic with hard target > self > focus would cast it on the Focus; casting Asp. Benefic with hard target > self > focus would cast on self if target isn't friendly; etc.).
- [OPTIONAL]No longer require a target to be set before beginning a cast and give the option to swap to new targets mid-cast if/when applicable (yes, this greatly helps prehealing against random-target mechanics, but that doesn't seem so awful).
- [OPTIONAL]Allow for a "prevent movement while holding button on casted actions" option, so that people can use their movement key to aim while they cast.
This one is harder, as there's almost always going to be some conflict here, especially if you try to have tab-target always prefer the nearest target. Honestly, having modded the hell out of tab-targeting every which way in other TT-MMOs my recommendation here would be to not conflate the Cycle Targets (left-to-right) key with Target Nearest Relevant Unit key and instead make use of both. That said, an option to control that would definitely help.Quote:
Better tab targeting.
_________________
EDIT (Due to Daily Post Limits)
I could have sworn that was damn near impossible with the current MP values unless skipping B4 or casting Flare in what is otherwise an ST rotation? After three casts of F4 under Umbral Hearts, you're left with 7600 MP, which is only enough for 4 Fires (leaving you at 1200 MP out of the 1600 needed for F4) and a Despair (costing at least 1200 MP), no?Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
But I haven't touched BLM at lv90 in a couple weeks, so I may have forgotten. -
09-16-2023, 08:16 AMLilimoLimomoI'm not sure if there's additional functionality you're looking for, but on the off-chance that it might help, mouseover is one of the targeting options you can use for a macro. So if your framerate is somewhere around 30 or 60 fps, a macro like this...Quote:
Originally Posted by ASkellington
/macroicon "Cure"
...would let you cast spells on a mouseover target. As a controller player I'm not too familiar with all the ins and outs of how this works, but I found this old thread where some folks discuss the finer points of the functionality.
/macroerror off
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo>
/ac Cure <mo> -
09-16-2023, 08:40 AMLilimoLimomoOh certainly, I'm not familiar with the history of Bard but replacing "redundant" abilities with something that actually breathes life into the kit seems great. So changing a redundant skill so that it does something novel and interesting that changes the way a player thinks about their class, rather than adding yet another button to unload during unload times...that sounds smashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
And as for Iron Jaws, yeah...it's only purpose is to "simplify" the already needlessly complex DoT game. So it's prime to just be removed. Or alternatively, have Venemous Bite just become Iron Jaws when you're aiming at a target that has 2 stacks of poison or whatever. Lots of similar solutions to this issue.
Wouldn't oppose this! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Yeah if macros could do something along the lines of trying every macro line in sequence until an action triggered or 0.5 seconds expired, that would be great!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Oh my god, if macros could intelligently cast a charge spell if I'm standing still but instead do an instant-cast if I was moving, that would be amazing. That would solve some of my biggest issues with my BLM setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Though I'm not sure if you could really make a good "Fire IV > Despair > Blizzard III" macro regardless, because depending on circumstances, there are times when you can cast Fire IV but if you do then afterwards you won't have enough mana to cast Despair, which means you should choose to cast Despair instead of the Fire IV. But I'd love to be able to pair Despair and Blizzard III without any loss! -
09-16-2023, 09:39 AMASkellingtonOh I know about this already.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
But what I'm looking for is something built in that isn't a macro simply because macros are clunky to use. Especially in comparison to mouse overs as done by addons in some other MMOs.
This is less for me specifically and more for other people who want it. Better party targeting is just something that's needed in the game in general.