Take a page from League of Legends for PVP

Im not talking about the toxic chat, but the play modes and how it allows groups of friends to queue together.

As far as balance, its all in the matchmaking. Don't put a team of five individuals vs a premade group. Balance them out even if queue takes a bit longer.

Quite frankly PVP would be a lot funner and have more staying power with changes that allowed friends to play together.

Why is it that this MMO insists on solo experiences? People don't want MMOs so they can play alone.... Some of us do have friends SE.....

First they have to fix the netcode and we all know that is impossible

I'm 100% with Ath on this one. Premades versus Premades and solo vs solo.

I'd also be for a persistent PvP map zone. Once you walk into the zone...PvP time. There are safe zones where violence isn't allowed but if you step out you are free game. Make it an optional zone too so people don't complain about it. Well I mean they will still complain but not nearly as much.

Think Wintergrasp during peak WotLK.

If I recall correctly Dota 2 did something similar a long while back. You used to be able to be put on a team of randos vs a premade, but then they changed it so it always matches you with the same premade party distribution. So for example if your team of five had three people in a party and two other people in another party, the opposite team would have the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I'm 100% with Ath on this one. Premades versus Premades and solo vs solo.

I'd also be for a persistent PvP map zone. Once you walk into the zone...PvP time. There are safe zones where violence isn't allowed but if you step out you are free game. Make it an optional zone too so people don't complain about it. Well I mean they will still complain but not nearly as much.

Think Wintergrasp during peak WotLK.

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Only if we can keep the siege engines. Catapult trains were my favorite part of Wintergrasp.

They are afraid that 5 stack sweats will steam roll the randoms. Making solo queue only is a very lazy solution they picked. I think ranked can be kept solo queue only, But the unranked should at least allow duo queue like unranked feast back then... The only other option right now is to play scrim, But then you got to organized And coordinate all 5 people in your team.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Only if we can keep the siege engines. Catapult trains were my favorite part of Wintergrasp.

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I agree. Defend the workshops, capture others, some are anti-foot soldiers while others defend the siege units so you can take down the fort.

Even better? Each side has a fort and you are both doing it at the same time and thus need to divide attention and forces. One seriously lacking? Time to shore up your weakpoints.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Why is it that this MMO insists on solo experiences? People don't want MMOs so they can play alone.... Some of us do have friends SE.....

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https://media.tenor.com/K9-SqJMNjkEA...nal-damage.gif

I agree. There's so many pvp games out there that have already solved these issues. SE just needs to copy/paste the answers in.

There's not enough people doing it in the first place. The queue would not take 'a bit longer', it would either never fire or lead to uneven matches.

Matchmaking filters break down with populations as small as the PVP base here. Always have, always will.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

There's not enough people doing it in the first place. The queue would not take 'a bit longer', it would either never fire or lead to uneven matches.

Matchmaking filters break down with populations as small as the PVP base here. Always have, always will.

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Agreed. Even in a PVP game, if the PVP population gets below a critical mass, then the queue system can really suffer, depending upon the design that's used for matching. In one game that I played , queues opened at specific time points during the day for certain types of matches , if people didn't queue within as a premade or within the first minute of the queue starting, it wasn't unusual for the queue to last at least half an hour OR for it not to pop.

Playing Exoprimal kind of made me think a PvP mode similar to that game would probably hit well here. Instead of traditional PvP it's like a PvEvP mostly where both teams are separated and racing to complete a series of PvE objectives. The game does have actual PvP in it but it's not the core of the gameplay as actual PvP tends to only happen during specific final objectives or through use of a pickup that allows a member of the team to appear on the other teams side as a dinosaur and attack them until the time limit expires or they get killed.

As for the existing queuing system. IMO what we have is probably the best option for what we have. On CC I've had nights where I've literally been matched with the same people just shuffled around the teams for hours which to me gives a good indication of periods existing when the pvp population is nearly nonexistent.

Also in order for anything from League of Legends to work properly they'd have to nerf Irelia every patch.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Im not talking about the toxic chat, but the play modes and how it allows groups of friends to queue together.

As far as balance, its all in the matchmaking. Don't put a team of five individuals vs a premade group. Balance them out even if queue takes a bit longer.

Quite frankly PVP would be a lot funner and have more staying power with changes that allowed friends to play together.

Why is it that this MMO insists on solo experiences? People don't want MMOs so they can play alone.... Some of us do have friends SE.....

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I want the toxic chat.

Ok poke me if I get it wrong, this is essentially about being able to play with friends in casual CC, yes?

This is a solved issue even for FFXIV, or "was" rather. Prior to 6.1, The Feast Casual Mode was 4v4 but you could pair up with another player when queueing. Now Feast had other issues making queues miserable (forced roles) but playing with a friend was an option and if more was desired, custom games were a thing like now.

What they simply need to do is re-enable that setting for CC. The matchmaker can easily handle duos for team distribution (in case of multiple duos queueing). Yeah there is an inherent risk of 2man armies from Top100 playing on their mains and demolishing by using specific burst setups but those are few and far between.

It's anecdotal, but I have heard of a lot of friends that prefer to play Frontlines or Rival Wings specifically so they don't need to spend their evening solo. In my opinion, it would be healthy to at least test it if not permanently keep it. Ranked should stay solo though.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Some of us do have friends SE.....

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Some

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Also in order for anything from League of Legends to work properly they'd have to nerf Irelia every patch.

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This is an acceptable sacrifice, even if it happens in League of Legends itself. No one will even notice anymore, since the focus has been on Ahri, Jinx, Lux, and Seraphine for the past few years anyway.

Bumping this so devs have another chance of re-reading it.

Only 2 things stand in the way of PVP being good in XIV now.

#1. Netcode
#2. Multiplayer queue options

SE, why go the whole way to redo PVP and not fix the final issues. Please notice.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Bumping this so devs have another chance of re-reading it.

Only 2 things stand in the way of PVP being good in XIV now.

#1. Netcode
#2. Multiplayer queue options

SE, why go the whole way to redo PVP and not fix the final issues. Please notice.

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Too much work lol. They need time to make the next hallway overdetailed and with cosmetic side path doors.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Bumping this so devs have another chance of re-reading it.

Only 2 things stand in the way of PVP being good in XIV now.

#1. Netcode
#2. Multiplayer queue options

SE, why go the whole way to redo PVP and not fix the final issues. Please notice.

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A good PvP scene would definitely put me back into focusing on 14 again.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Im not talking about the toxic chat, but the play modes and how it allows groups of friends to queue together.

As far as balance, its all in the matchmaking. Don't put a team of five individuals vs a premade group. Balance them out even if queue takes a bit longer.

Quite frankly PVP would be a lot funner and have more staying power with changes that allowed friends to play together.

Why is it that this MMO insists on solo experiences? People don't want MMOs so they can play alone.... Some of us do have friends SE.....

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i play frontlines maybe 70% of the time im online with my boyfriend, hes a former league player. and its fascinating he tells me how toxic league is while the frontline chat continously rages as the alliance for a miriad of reasons. hell, sometimes im so lucky i get dmed out of the duty because sm1 didnt like my calls. pvp is already as close to league as it gets

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Originally Posted by Renalt

A good PvP scene would definitely put me back into focusing on 14 again.

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I feel like it would help out the game a lot as well. I can see people who play XIV purely for the PVP aspect if it did become good enough to create a decent community around it. Problem is these last two items don't make it worth it to play beyond rewards right now.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Bumping this so devs have another chance of re-reading it.

Only 2 things stand in the way of PVP being good in XIV now.

#1. Netcode
#2. Multiplayer queue options

SE, why go the whole way to redo PVP and not fix the final issues. Please notice.

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I wanna duo queue CC with my partner u_u

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

I wanna duo queue CC with my partner u_u

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All they have to do is make sure that when duos or trios queue up they get matched to other duos and trios. Keeping it single player is hurting the potential of PVP mode big time.

Reminder that Feast Training used to have duos able to queue when it was infinitely more impactful.

Having duos be able to queue in Casual CC will be a lot less impacted than back then given the increase from 4v4 to 5v5, making Healers not mandatory anymore and kills not being the end-all-be-all to win.

More importantly, it would offer additional ways to play with


wait for it


your friends.

...
cant people who want friends in pvp to play with make using partyfinder a thing? it's right there.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

...
cant people who want friends in pvp to play with make using partyfinder a thing? it's right there.

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Vastly more inefficient. That’s like saying, wasn’t PvP already there before CC, why not make that a thing? It was right there. The whole point of putting effort into PvP was to make it better. This change would make it better.

I mean, ignoring how badly designed this game's combat is for pvp is okay I guess. Combat works alright for pve, but in pvp you really notice how clunky it is in terms of skills and just how things work in general. MCH is a prime example of having 3 ranged skills then one you need to be on their butt to use all in the same button (who really thought putting bioblaster in with chainsaw/drill/andtheotherone was a good idea?). Having friends to play something bad with is alright at times but I dont think you all are gonna want to continuously do it.

I'm gonna bump this for new Xpac. I want to play with friends, and I think PVP would get a huge boost from people enjoying a repeatable activity with friends in this game.

Others said it but to chime in, I bet it would substantially increase queue time. If SE has the data to show it won't then go for it. But definitely keep them separated and or exactly 1:1 pairings (no 5 premade vs 2 premade and 3 strangers), premade will definitely rofl stomp non-premade (not only a "just think about" but we know as well because you used to be able to lol).

Interestingly it might also increase the ability to win trade, although I wouldn't care if they stopped putting the leaderboard style rewards in it (pick some other means of reward, like you get points per fight with a weak FATE evaluation so if you did essentially nothing you get bronze, and the higher PvP rank you also get a multiplier so everyone is encouraged to do wel, but there is no lock out from win trading). Except for specific situations I'm imagining win trade isn't the most common, just people playing a lot, but in this way it's a big oh well if it was even a concern because you can still be part of it.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Others said it but to chime in, I bet it would substantially increase queue time. If SE has the data to show it won't then go for it. But definitely keep them separated and or exactly 1:1 pairings (no 5 premade vs 2 premade and 3 strangers), premade will definitely rofl stomp non-premade (not only a "just think about" but we know as well because you used to be able to lol).

Interestingly it might also increase the ability to win trade, although I wouldn't care if they stopped putting the leaderboard style rewards in it (pick some other means of reward, like you get points per fight with a weak FATE evaluation so if you did essentially nothing you get bronze, and the higher PvP rank you also get a multiplier so everyone is encouraged to do wel, but there is no lock out from win trading). Except for specific situations I'm imagining win trade isn't the most common, just people playing a lot, but in this way it's a big oh well if it was even a concern because you can still be part of it.

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If anything I think it would reduce them because more players would do this as a PVP and chill activity with their friends. I am sure of it.

Streamers could also group up with their followers and have a good time. Everyone benefits.