Remove DPS Abilities from Healers

Yup, just as the title suggests. I believe SE should remove all DPS abilities from healers beyond solo content or open world content. Making them have to focus on heals in duties with other players.

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Originally Posted by JiraTyanu

Making them have to focus on heals in duties with other players.

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They will have a hard time to focus not to fall asleep...

I literally can go afk when I run a dungeon with the Trust and Thancred will keep himself alive lol.

Please get better bait. This is really stale, I almost fell asleep in fact zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Do people really miss Titanman this much? Lol

f u l l c i r c l e

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Originally Posted by JiraTyanu

Yup, just as the title suggests. I believe SE should remove all DPS abilities from healers beyond solo content or open world content. Making them have to focus on heals in duties with other players.

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Then remove every dps skill from tanks as well. They should only use their dmg reduction and spam provoke

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Then remove every dps skill from tanks as well. They should only use their dmg reduction and spam provoke

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That there is actual bait, nay. What I am suggesting is removing DPS abilities on healers in instanced group content to stop healers from DPSing to a point of letting people die.

This is such a bad take, definitely a troll post lel.

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Originally Posted by Remish

Do people really miss Titanman this much? Lol

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Titanmen misses Titanmen. Based on the content of the threads the OP started...I'll just leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by JiraTyanu

That there is actual bait, nay. What I am suggesting is removing DPS abilities on healers in instanced group content to stop healers from DPSing to a point of letting people die.

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Some tanks find it difficult to weave their defensives due to their DPS rotation. If CBU3 readd Ultimatum (aoe provoke) into the game, and tweak it's and provoke's CD, this role won't need any damaging abilities to function

I do think there would be benefits to removing the choice for healers to either do DPS or heal. I think an elegant solution would be to rework healers so that their heals result in damage. That could be because any healing done to party members also passively damages enemies, or builds up some kind of gauge that eventually deals damage, etc. There are a variety of ways to do it, and I don't think it would be too challenging to make different ones for each class. But removing the moment-to-moment choice between DPS and healing and replacing them with "actually, both" would be an elegant way to solve that conflict. Bonus damage for overhealing your max health party, etc.

For that to work, there has to be a lot more dmg during fights..
So that healers must Heal/Esuna all the time..

One of the several General Discussion bait topics.

"Healer DPS!"
"Mare & ERP!"
"Mods!"
"Everything XIV does is stupid!"

lol

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I do think there would be benefits to removing the choice for healers to either do DPS or heal. I think an elegant solution would be to rework healers so that their heals result in damage. That could be because any healing done to party members also passively damages enemies, or builds up some kind of gauge that eventually deals damage, etc. There are a variety of ways to do it, and I don't think it would be too challenging to make different ones for each class. But removing the moment-to-moment choice between DPS and healing and replacing them with "actually, both" would be an elegant way to solve that conflict. Bonus damage for overhealing your max health party, etc.

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This I really wouldn't mind in all honesty, what urks me is when healers.. DPS so often they refuse to output even a single oGCD heal which causes the party to wipe for a few extra ticks on dat parser. >.> parsers were a mistake.

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Originally Posted by JiraTyanu

This I really wouldn't mind in all honesty, what urks me is when healers.. DPS so often they refuse to output even a single oGCD heal which causes the party to wipe for a few extra ticks on dat parser. >.> parsers were a mistake.

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Speculation- OP parties with someone who cannot weave, in content where parsing is of significant use but no one has yet figured out how to communicate with these healers nor found the "kick" feature?

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Originally Posted by JiraTyanu

(...)what urks me is when healers.. DPS so often they refuse to output even a single oGCD heal which causes the party to wipe for a few extra ticks on dat parser. >.>

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If they're so concentrated in pressing dia once in a blue moon and spamming glare that they forget to use assize, then it's a player problem, not a job problem.

Removing DPS spells to avoid that from happening is akin to treating an ingrown nail by cutting off your toe. Healing's already pretty barebones as it is, no need to make it even more boring.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I do think there would be benefits to removing the choice for healers to either do DPS or heal. I think an elegant solution would be to rework healers so that their heals result in damage. That could be because any healing done to party members also passively damages enemies, or builds up some kind of gauge that eventually deals damage, etc. There are a variety of ways to do it, and I don't think it would be too challenging to make different ones for each class. But removing the moment-to-moment choice between DPS and healing and replacing them with "actually, both" would be an elegant way to solve that conflict. Bonus damage for overhealing your max health party, etc.

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Elegant - sounds more like a lobotomy to me. Those "moment-to-moment" choices are expressly what makes the job interesting. It's not a "conflict".

We don't enforce those constraints so rigidly on other jobs, even those that we consider to have responsibility either (although in more difficult content it could be argued that all jobs have significant responsibility) For example, (and this is admittedly a simple one) when tanking multiple mobs, sometimes a tank may note that they missed a mob on the aggro list and it's whacking away on a squishie. They momentarily need to grab it and then go back to their rotation. That may be a bit tricky at first but quickly become s second nature. I realize that's not an exact analogy (and SE has also made tanks jobs easier in various aspects) but the point is that it's not meant to be a completely non-challenging job.

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Originally Posted by JiraTyanu

This I really wouldn't mind in all honesty, what urks me is when healers.. DPS so often they refuse to output even a single oGCD heal which causes the party to wipe for a few extra ticks on dat parser. >.> parsers were a mistake.

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Yep, I've been in normal raids with healers who were clearly trying so hard to get that personal parse that they didn't revive DPS for multiple minutes and instead kept chaining Glares. Always a bummer to see.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Elegant - sounds more like a lobotomy to me. Those "moment-to-moment" choices are expressly what makes the job interesting. It's not a "conflict".

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Perhaps I'm not seeing it? Can you give me some examples that show how a healer choosing between dealing damage and healing results in something interesting?

As for the "lobotomy", I don't see how dealing damage by casting a healing spell would end up being any different than doing it by casting Glare. But perhaps the example you provide will demonstrate what I'm missing.

bait or not, I wish healing actually required more healing with how overtuned healer's kits are and how choreographed healing is in this game now there is a depressing amount of actual healing to be done and almost zero thinking required in doing so.

To remove dps abilities you'd have to give something else, say a drastic increase to the damage needing to going on, healer's dps would no longer need to be relevant in checks in raid content, besides wholesale removal making healer solo content unplayable I do feel healing a whole does need a fundamental rework with either MUCH more damage being in the game to start with (though, judging by abyssos and the wealth of complaints about bleeds/ heal checks that wont happen) or something more engaging than just pressing glare for an 20 seconds straight.

What would happen to Sage if they couldn’t deal damage though?

I’m all for more healing requirements, actual gcd buffs and debuffs so healers can contribute in ways other than just direct damage, but removing all dps abilities completely would just make healers feel extremely weird to play lol. They kinda need at least 1 or 2. Or more in the case of Sage / (debateably) White Mage lol

Then again, I am just feeding the troll by posting lol

No thank you. (☼Д☼)

Death happens in dungeons.

The biggest problem in the game right now is that healers are tuned for ultimate and final boss savage fights.

Because of this, healers can literally do nothing, stand at the entrance of a dungeon, trial or 24 player raid and the content will be cleared.

Heck, it’s even possible to clear ultimate raids with no healers.

As it stands now, fixing healing in the game is near impossible because they do not have a dedicated healer job lead. The healer lead is the lead caster / range dps lead. Even if they really wanted to truly fix healing, they would have to retool almost every fight in the game and thus, we are stuck with what we have.


P.S. We will never see new healers over the next 10 years because of this setup. We have what we have and I expect the system we have now will persist to the end with some very minor tweaks.

I will never understand the hyperbole with some people.

"They're making a point!" No, they're Chicken Little "the sky is falling".

Healers in MMOs will always have at least token attacks so they can clear solo content. Even if a game is designed where, in group content, healers are devoting every cast to healing the party, they will still have some kind of basic attack for when they solo or "do dalies" or so on. There's no universe where all damage actions will be removed from any combat class in a game based around combat. And no, it isn't "making a point", since the amount of people actually asking for it is effectively zero (the only people I've seen asking for it were those trying to "make a point"), so it's not even relevant to any conversation about the topic of healer rotations or encounter design.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Titanmen misses Titanmen. Based on the content of the threads the OP started...I'll just leave it at that.

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Yeah, probably that.

And heal what? Lol

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

And heal what? Lol

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The seemingly overwhelming force of their personalities and unprecedented levels of stupid. They're hoping for a Christmas miracle.

Here is a series question for the OP: How will removing DPS abilities from healers make their gameplay fun? What about that will make people want to play healers? (*´﹃｀*)

Warrior and Paladin are the only healers needed. :3

I guess that means more time for Youtube if all I can do is heal...

Seriously though, I don't know if I am being baited by Titanman 3.0 or not but I wonder if they have thought about the trickle effects that doing this would entail. You would have to redesign every single instanced encounter in the game from every trash pull and boss in every dungeon to every normal trial, hard trial, extreme trial, every normal raid fight, every savage raid fight, every ultimate, every treasure map encounter and probably more things I am not thinking about currently. Every single DPS check would have to be redesigned and retested as they all account for healer dps being there. There would have to be a severe ramp up in aoe damage and everyone would effectively need to be constantly taking damage so the healers have something to do. That would take I assume years of effort to accomplish which is almost stupid to even ask for any company to do.

As a side note, healers in WoW have a lot more healing they need to do and most healers have a deeper dps kit than healers here do...

Good luck doing any quests with combat in them as a healer with no dps. Might take you an hour or so just to kill one mob with auto attacks.