Should relic stats be tweeked?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

If I'm going to put myself through this hell, maybe.... just maybe I'm thinking the relics should be a little bit more awesome you feel me?

Dont do it if you feel its not worth your time.

Relic weapons have more value beyond functionality. They're not just extremely good weapons, they also carry that added weight of when you walk around town and people see it, thinking "hot damn, that's one badass player!"

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Relic weapons have more value beyond functionality. They're not just extremely good weapons, they also carry that added weight of when you walk around town and people see it, thinking "hot damn, that's one badass player!"

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Or..hot damn..that person probably hasnt been out in the sun in the last five months!..lol I kid, I kid.

Just seeing 1 second of that made my heart drop. It's only about a million nails.

i love how the complaining shifted from
"every noob can have a relic, its just dumb luck, where is the skill!?!"
to
"relic ifrit is far too hard T.T make weapons even better"

(on the vid, god i want so see the players faces when all those nails broke thru the ground the first time ^~^)

If everyone has 10,000 HP you can use Benediction and survive ^.^

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

i love how the complaining shifted from
"every noob can have a relic, its just dumb luck, where is the skill!?!"
to
"relic ifrit is far too hard T.T make weapons even better"

(on the vid, god i want so see the players faces when all those nails broke thru the ground the first time ^~^)

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Let me correct you here, I never once said Relic Ifrit was too hard. I did say relic questline just may not be worth the reward in the long run. To coin the phrase, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

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Originally Posted by waldo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

If I'm going to put myself through this hell, maybe.... just maybe I'm thinking the relics should be a little bit more awesome you feel me?

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All I can do when I see that, is think... Meh if only it was that lag free for me.

But no that's worth a getting an iconic weapon, useful or not, it looks fun and challenging.
Unlike a specific pure luck part the quest i wont mention again.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Let me correct you here, I never once said Relic Ifrit was too hard. I did say relic questline just may not be worth the reward in the long run. To coin the phrase, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

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which means "it is too hard for the weapons with their current stats", its the same thing

I cant help but think this battle is revenge from the guys who designed the Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda battles and saw their designs wrecked after just a few hours. I know Garuda had a different approach with the competition thing on how long did we think it would take before it was felled. But still, the creators of these things had to be thinking... damnit man, we spent months designing this and they just steamroll through everything in a few hours. Payback time bitchessss!

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

which means "it is too hard for the weapons with their current stats", its the same thing

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People like you heh. Again, the question is posed "Should relec stats be tweeked?" "Is this questline worth it?"
You fail to offer anything close to an answer for these questions, rather just spew words about how you love how people think stuff is easy mode/too hard/whatever your problem for the day is.

Get off your soap box bud, you're in the wrong thread apparently, because your rants do not apply.

Back on track, the nails video is sick, and it makes me shiver a little seeing the 9999 damage to all. Yikes!

Before you judge OP, let's think about this objectively:

For MNK:

Ifrit's Claws to Garuda's Talons = 1.38 DPS upgrade. Which is pretty fair, for a Primal fight which isn't very hard and considering it doesn't take much time to get either weapon if you just farm for the weapon exchange item.

Garuda's Talons to Sphairai = 0.98 DPS upgrade. In order to get this upgrade you need to spend millions of gil getting a double meld, weeks farming Hamlet for seals, you need to speed run <17 mins in both AV/CC 3 times, do a behest, caravan, faction leve, get 999 beastcoins (or 500/99 depending on which you choose), kill Ifrit on Extreme mode, and kill Garuda.

Doesn't seem quite right does it?

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Before you judge OP, let's think about this objectively:

For MNK:

Ifrit's Claws to Garuda's Talons = 1.38 DPS upgrade. Which is pretty fair, for a Primal fight which isn't very hard and considering it doesn't take much time to get either weapon if you just farm for the weapon exchange item.

Garuda's Talons to Sphairai = 0.98 DPS upgrade. In order to get this upgrade you need to spend millions of gil getting a double meld, weeks farming Hamlet for seals, you need to speed run <17 mins in both AV/CC 3 times, do a behest, caravan, faction leve, get 999 beastcoins (or 500/99 depending on which you choose), kill Ifrit on Extreme mode, and kill Garuda.

Doesn't seem quite right does it?

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Why judge me at all lol?
I asked a few questions, I did not claim anything to be fact... or even tell any mean spirited mama jokes!

Just questions is all.

Miss kitten, let's have a deeper look on the weapons:
Garuda's Talons -
Wind Resistance+15
Accuracy+25
Critical Hit Attack Power+40
Chance to inflict wind damage

Sphairai -
MP+70
Evasion+30
Attack Power+60
Refresh+5
Increases Shoulder Tackle damage

It has slightly higher DPS that most probably makes up for the increased wind damage, looses on accuracy and crit power, but gains evasion, refresh and +MP to maintain fists and a good deal more of attack power.
Does that makes it more right? I wouldn't know i'm not a monk, but a straight DPS comparison is not a good idea.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Why judge me at all lol?
I asked a few questions, I did not claim anything to be fact... or even tell any mean spirited mama jokes!

Just questions is all.

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i think he was on your side ^^

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Miss kitten, let's have a deeper look on the weapons:
Garuda's Talons -
Wind Resistance+15
Accuracy+25
Critical Hit Attack Power+40
Chance to inflict wind damage

Sphairai -
MP+70
Evasion+30
Attack Power+60
Refresh+5
Increases Shoulder Tackle damage

It has slightly higher DPS that most probably makes up for the increased wind damage, looses on accuracy and crit power, but gains evasion, refresh and +MP to maintain fists and a good deal more of attack power.
Does that makes it more right? I wouldn't know i'm not a monk, but a straight DPS comparison is not a good idea.

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The only good stat on the mnk wep is the 60 atk power the mp and evasion is useless.

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Originally Posted by waldo

People like you heh. Again, the question is posed "Should relec stats be tweeked?" "Is this questline worth it?"
You fail to offer anything close to an answer for these questions, rather just spew words about how you love how people think stuff is easy mode/too hard/whatever your problem for the day is.

Get off your soap box bud, you're in the wrong thread apparently, because your rants do not apply.

Back on track, the nails video is sick, and it makes me shiver a little seeing the 9999 damage to all. Yikes!

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Ok here is my answer then, NO
im pretty tired that people feel the need to start a change petition for every single damn thing the devs put out.
and since we are honest to each other, here is my honest opinion:
get over your entitlement "bud"
what you get is what you get, if its not "worth it" enough for your taste, too bad

(and the question was not "are the weapons too weak compared to others?" it was "are the weapons stats high enough to justify such a hard fight?" my answer was just for that)

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Before you judge OP, let's think about this objectively:

For MNK:

Ifrit's Claws to Garuda's Talons = 1.38 DPS upgrade. Which is pretty fair, for a Primal fight which isn't very hard and considering it doesn't take much time to get either weapon if you just farm for the weapon exchange item.

Garuda's Talons to Sphairai = 0.98 DPS upgrade. In order to get this upgrade you need to spend millions of gil getting a double meld, weeks farming Hamlet for seals, you need to speed run <17 mins in both AV/CC 3 times, do a behest, caravan, faction leve, get 999 beastcoins (or 500/99 depending on which you choose), kill Ifrit on Extreme mode, and kill Garuda.

Doesn't seem quite right does it?

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don't consider only dps :|| spharai have minor dps increase, but an amazing base damage + a big chuck of attack

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Originally Posted by Skies

Miss kitten, let's have a deeper look on the weapons

It has slightly higher DPS that most probably makes up for the increased wind damage, looses on accuracy and crit power, but gains evasion, refresh and +MP to maintain fists and a good deal more of attack power.
Does that makes it more right? I wouldn't know i'm not a monk, but a straight DPS comparison is not a good idea.

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While you obviously shouldn't just take DPS into account, it doesn't matter because the bonus stats on any of the weapons really aren't that great. The best ones as far as I can tell are lance, bow, and staff, and even then the stat increase really isn't worth the time/effort and just in general calling something a relic and then giving it easily replaceable stats is pretty silly.

As far as MNK goes: refresh/MP is nice but nothing to get excited about, ATK is okay, but it should be higher, and EVA is absolutely useless. The Shoulder Tackle bonus is also laughable.

Has it been confirmed that you can complete this? And it isn't some bullshit like Absolute Virtue was for two whole years before they added the 2 hour despawn?

I'm all for a challenging fight, but this looks absurd, and if it's still the 1 minute time between hellfire and the nails spawning, then it just alienates single target DDs.

I guess I'll wait until I give it a shot myself, or see some videos on it.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

While you obviously shouldn't just take DPS into account, it doesn't matter because the bonus stats on any of the weapons really aren't that great. The best ones as far as I can tell are lance, bow, and staff, and even then the stat increase really isn't worth the time/effort and just in general calling something a relic and then giving it easily replaceable stats is pretty silly.

As far as MNK goes: refresh/MP is nice but nothing to get excited about, ATK is okay, but it should be higher, and EVA is absolutely useless. The Shoulder Tackle bonus is also laughable.

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Yup i feel the same way mnk wep was the only one i wanted but i don't feel its worth my time =/

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Originally Posted by Firon

Yup i feel the same way mnk wep was the only one i wanted but i don't feel its worth my time =/

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Pretty much ;/ I'm getting bow, which I think is the best one to get simply because of the song duration bonus, but honestly, -30 enmity? Right after they nerfted BRD? REALLY? WHEN AM I EVER

GONNA RIP

HATE

I hate this game so much sometimes.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Before you judge OP, let's think about this objectively:

For MNK:

Ifrit's Claws to Garuda's Talons = 1.38 DPS upgrade. Which is pretty fair, for a Primal fight which isn't very hard and considering it doesn't take much time to get either weapon if you just farm for the weapon exchange item.

Garuda's Talons to Sphairai = 0.98 DPS upgrade. In order to get this upgrade you need to spend millions of gil getting a double meld, weeks farming Hamlet for seals, you need to speed run <17 mins in both AV/CC 3 times, do a behest, caravan, faction leve, get 999 beastcoins (or 500/99 depending on which you choose), kill Ifrit on Extreme mode, and kill Garuda.

Doesn't seem quite right does it?

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Stop looking at that one stat.

Sphairai:
MP+70
Evasion+30
Attack Power+60
Refresh+5
Increases Shoulder Tackle damage

Garuda's Talons:
Wind Resistance+15
Accuracy+25
Critical Hit Attack Power+40
Chance to inflict wind damage

Ifrit's Claws:
Fire Resistance+15
Attack Power+30
Chance to inflict fire damage

If you can't see that the Sphairai is DRASTICALLY better, minus 1 whole damage per second, you're insane.

But as stated before, if you don't want to put in the time for these weapons (which are upgradable by the way), you don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

im pretty tired that people feel the need to start a change petition for every single damn thing the devs put out.

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This is not a petition.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Stop looking at that one stat.

Sphairai:
MP+70
Evasion+30
Attack Power+60
Refresh+5
Increases Shoulder Tackle damage

Garuda's Talons:
Wind Resistance+15
Accuracy+25
Critical Hit Attack Power+40
Chance to inflict wind damage

Ifrit's Claws:
Fire Resistance+15
Attack Power+30
Chance to inflict fire damage

If you can't see that the Sphairai is DRASTICALLY better, minus 1 whole damage per second, you're insane.

But as stated before, if you don't want to put in the time for these weapons (which are upgradable by the way), you don't have to.

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Just because they have more stat points on them doesn't make them drastically better, the Sphairai are better than Garuda Talons yes that is a fact that cant be debated, the question is if the stats on Sphairai are worth the huge time investment required to get.

I think most people who play monk and understand how monk works as a dps class will agree Sphairai are underwhelming at best.

Edit: Also how do you know they are upgradeable? do you work for SE? they will probably add a way to upgrade relics in the future i agree but when exactly? in patch 2.1? in a years time? in 4 years time?

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Originally Posted by Penguin

Just because they have more stat points on them doesn't make them drastically better, the Sphairai are better than Garuda Talons yes that is a fact that cant be debated, the question is if the stats on Sphairai are worth the huge time investment required to get.

I think most people who play monk and understand how monk works as a dps class will agree Sphairai are underwhelming at best.

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Maybe a better question is, if this game stays around another 2-3 years and the currect weapons are so close to "Relic" weapons, does that mean Odin weapons (for example) will be on par or maybe better than the relics?

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Originally Posted by waldo

Maybe a better question is, if this game stays around another 2-3 years and the currect weapons are so close to "Relic" weapons, does that mean Odin weapons (for example) will be on par or maybe better than the relics?

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SE has stated numerous times that Relics are not meant for everyone. Those who cannot obtain relics may await the new primal drops, if they drop weapons still.

no need, i will do it no matter if the fight related to relics or not. It's not about a reward, it's abt achivement for playing this game. no more lolprimal.

They did say its upgradeable, it might safe to say that they will be best in slot forever?

I do think for the effort the stats should be ridiculous, I can't imagine anyone in this thread truly believes they have a chance of beating Extreme Ifrit after watching that and if they do then they are probably deluding themselves.

Good luck with that though :D

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Before you judge OP, let's think about this objectively:

For MNK:

Ifrit's Claws to Garuda's Talons = 1.38 DPS upgrade. Which is pretty fair, for a Primal fight which isn't very hard and considering it doesn't take much time to get either weapon if you just farm for the weapon exchange item.

Garuda's Talons to Sphairai = 0.98 DPS upgrade. In order to get this upgrade you need to spend millions of gil getting a double meld, weeks farming Hamlet for seals, you need to speed run <17 mins in both AV/CC 3 times, do a behest, caravan, faction leve, get 999 beastcoins (or 500/99 depending on which you choose), kill Ifrit on Extreme mode, and kill Garuda.

Doesn't seem quite right does it?

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False.
You do not need to spend that much if you make your own weapons and materia and meld it yourself. More time consuming, but cheap.

While I do agree, some of the stats are kinda underwhelming and cheezy, but relics are worth it. For now at least, till something better comes along. Then we will all spend time getting the new stuff. It's an endless cycle. It's something to go for, something to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Akujin

Or..hot damn..that person probably hasnt been out in the sun in the last five months!..lol I kid, I kid.

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...but, at the same time, you're so profoundly right! :-)

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

[...]
what you get is what you get, if its not "worth it" enough for your taste, too bad

(and the question was not "are the weapons too weak compared to others?" it was "are the weapons stats high enough to justify such a hard fight?" my answer was just for that)

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But isn't it understandable that quite a lot of players don't see the sense of new content added that might very likely not be worth the effort? (Not taking upgrade-option into account.)
If the quest was thrilling and fun throughout the whole steps then this would be another story but apparently there is a lot of exhausting repetitive and grindish activity (except for Ifrit) so one would probably not do the quest for fun but for the item, at least many might look at it from this perspective.

I will probably try to run for them (and might give up under heavy cursing) but still, it wouldn't be for the weapons praised from the devs, it would be rather for doing something.
To me rather like a makeshift - if this quest is served as a quest for an item then it is sad that the item might not be in relation to the time spent.
If it was not about the item but "only" a time consuming quest for the sake of fun and adventure as stated above then the evaluation of it would be different imo.
To me the direct comparison time --> item is just purely unbalanced. :/

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Originally Posted by Taggerung5

False.
You do not need to spend that much if you make your own weapons and materia and meld it yourself. More time consuming, but cheap.

While I do agree, some of the stats are kinda underwhelming and cheezy, but relics are worth it. For now at least, till something better comes along. Then we will all spend time getting the new stuff. It's an endless cycle. It's something to go for, something to achieve.

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I really hate when people say "Just farm it, its alot cheaper." In a technical sense yeah it is "cheaper" but if you get 2 melded heavens eyes and a sarnga and you blow the double meld up you are still blowing up almost 4 million gils worth of items. Everything has a price value in gil, just because you farm the mats doesn't mean that the double meld came cheap. Plus, time is money, right? And with the rate in which you are likely to actually get 2 of the top tier materia you need you are probably better off just farming items to sell to buy the materia off the market wards anyways.

As far as the relics are I do agree the stats are a bit underwhelming. What the hell is up with the white mage bonuses? Instead of giving a bonus to something whitemages should actually be using they give a bonus to holy? White mages need mp to heal, and the only thing holy is even really effective on is undead mobs anyways. As far as healing potency, its only slightly better than things we have out right now, and thats just the tip of the ice berg.

The DPS and damage on each of these weapons needs to be increased by atleast 2-3 more than what it currently is. I am personally going to be going for one, and so is like half my ls, and even though its going to take forever its going to be nice when we finally achieve the goal, but for me atleast, the accomplishment will only be good because of the fact that its currently the hardest thing to get. I don't care too much about the weapons themselves because they are super lack luster.

This looks awesome and I want to try. BRB exchanging 1-3 months my life for a relic weapon.

I'd love to try and do this without doing the relic quest. Yes to a challenge, no to getting that far in the relic quest lol

To early to tell. Maybe the weapon gets upgraded with future content. Personally I'm going for it if for no other reason than just to have something to do. The sense of acompishment once I have one is going to be amazing regardless of the stats.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

If everyone has 10,000 HP you can use Benediction and survive ^.^

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Pentameld Bloodthirst onto everything!

They're really awesome but yeah for the amount of work they seem like they're not beefy enough!! Good thing is they said relic would be upgradable beyond level cap raise so they will have a chance to make it right.

I am all over MNK relic. Is it worth the time to get? For me. Yes! The way I play MNK every stat on those are priceless.