New Jobs Question for 2.0

So Yoshi-P Said they would be using a class to develop multiple jobs. Here is his Quote:

For example - and this does not mean that this is going to happen - but for example, right now the gladiator will change his job to a Paladin. But maybe in the future a gladiator will also be able to change to Dark Knight. Again, this is a maybe... Not saying anything about Dark Knights.

My question is, say I have all 50s, and Gladiator for example will in fact develop into Dark Knight. Since I am 50 Gladiator at the moment, when you unlock Paladin your instantly level 50 Paladin. How are they going to change this so people actually have to level Dark Knight, and not just have instant level 50 Dark Knight when it releases because they have 50 GLD.

I hope they develop this correctly, cause with the current system, it would take no work to get instant 50 when jobs are released. Just curious if anyone else has thought of this and what you guys think.

Again, not saying this is set in stone that they will do this multiple jobs for one class thing, but if they do.

Sounds like something tasty from FF5. :D

I think from their point of view - and I'm not saying this is the right point of view - the "progression" of a job is completely disconnected from levels. In their minds, it's fine if everyone has DRK at 50 as soon as it's released, because no-one will have any DRK abilities, they'll have to do the DRK progression to get those, i.e. do Job Quests. That is to say, doing Job Quests is leveling a job as they see it, so it doesn't really matter what level you start as.

I have the same issue, feels like there is going to be a major lack of progression and class development. I would be okay with this if they added interesting horizontal class development, such as BLU spell hunting, or Avatar battles in XI, because then having a 50 job wouldn't mean much 'ill you pulled that off anyway. But at the moment, every job develops in the same, uninteresting fashion.

The other issue I have with multiple jobs coming from classes would be the implication that certain jobs will share 75% of their skill set with other jobs. Wasn't the point of the job system to increase role uniqueness? That sounds more like a devolution to me

Well, like when Paladin was added, you still have to do the quests to obtain all the proper skills. I'm fine with being a level 50 Dark Knight the day it's added, as it'll give me something to unlock.

Or, you know, they could just add another class that Dark Knight needs so people will have to level that.

Oh boy here we go with branching jobs.

I hope they don't give DRK to GLA :(

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Oh boy here we go with branching jobs.

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branching jobs is the corner stone of the system we have now (despite we have 1:1 ratio now because they don't have time)

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Originally Posted by Rau

I hope they don't give DRK to GLA :(

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It wouldn't be that bad, to be honest. You reshuffle GLA's abilities and traits to be more down the middle of the road, adjust stuff on PLD so that the extreme tank focus goes on PLD and only PLD, remove dagger access from GLA and give them Great Sword to compensate, then give GLA the quest to unlock DRK making MRD and LNC DRK's sub-classes. Here's my example in detail.

It can work, but would need some rebalancing of the classes. Which I don't mind.

Well sure you are lv 50 PLD but you don't have the PLD skills til you do all the quest so that's the progress for those jobs.

They can just make it so you turn into lv1 job when you equip a stone and just play from scratch with new abilities and you still can do the five quests for the special abilities and armor parts.

aannnddd classes can rot away and never be used again then be removed from game and everybody will be happy.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

They can just make it so you turn into lv1 job when you equip a stone and just play from scratch with new abilities and you still can do the five quests for the special abilities and armor parts.

aannnddd classes can rot away and never be used again then be removed from game and everybody will be happy.

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Or! They could make so that when you equip a job stone you can use your job's abilities, and to gain more abilities you need to do those pretty interesting quests that beat the crap out of grinding for levels any day of the way.

And then classes can stay and we can never talk about removing jobs ever again and everybody will be happy :D

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Originally Posted by Arkine

They can just make it so you turn into lv1 job when you equip a stone and just play from scratch with new abilities and you still can do the five quests for the special abilities and armor parts.

aannnddd classes can rot away and never be used again then be removed from game and everybody will be happy.

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some people just want to watch the world burn... . and im disappointing in you... .

I really hope they decide against this system of branching jobs.

As of right now, the only difference between a Paladin and the other GLA job will be the 5 abilities they can equip. Not to say they won't add or change abilities later for GLA so they aren't always a tank, but at the rate we are going now, both jobs would technically be a sword tank.

If they keep with the 1:1 ratio, well the job will only be basically an enhancement of class. Because jobs now do basically what their previous classes do. CNJ heals like WHM, THM damage deals like BLM, and GLA tanks like PLD. Only real difference is equipping healing and raises on classes.

I just really think they need to put so more diffrentiation between jobs and classes in the future. I know some may disagree but this is my opinion... lol

That's how it must be to be coherent with the system we have now.

You (will) have multiple jobs as specializations of a single class, and you keep the lv of the class associated to it. No needs to change this.

What you will lvl-up are the new classes they'll introduce.

I would also like to see some sort of Advanced Jobs, which (maybe) require 2 other jobs to unlock and need to be lvld differently.... but that is just my own idea.

well from what they were saying you would be level 50 dark knight, but they will be adding other classes as well which of course would start at level 1. So for example Musketeer is the class starts at level 1, Corsair is the job which unlocks when you get to job level on musketeer, same as the current.

I've felt meh about being auto-50 on a job after unlock. One of the primary goals of leveling ought to be to learn the class, become comfortable with it.

I'd rather that classes capped at 30, and job quests were like genkai in XI. This way when you unlock PLD it's level 30 and you must level it up. Same with new jobs that come into the mix. Something like that anyway. I find it kinda OP we are just gonna get every job to 50 upon release because we already have the matching class at 50.

I still think the Class system hamstrings the job system from being creative with how the game evolves.

I wish they would just focus on the Jobs in the game and get rid of the homogonized Classes. Obviously just my opinion but I just feel the class system is allready showing how jobs are just a mere specialization and make most classes themselves obsolete for practical purposes.

Of course a few classes still benifit from cross-classing but for the most part the jobs are far superior in almost every single way.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

I've felt meh about being auto-50 on a job after unlock. One of the primary goals of leveling ought to be to learn the class, become comfortable with it.

I'd rather that classes capped at 30, and job quests were like genkai in XI. This way when you unlock PLD it's level 30 and you must level it up. Same with new jobs that come into the mix. Something like that anyway. I find it kinda OP we are just gonna get every job to 50 upon release because we already have the matching class at 50.

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They of course couldn't make people loose 20 levels (people with classes already at 50). They could very well increase the lvl cap for jobs only, though. Wouldn't be a bad idea, imho.... expecially from abilities point of view... if you increment lv cap for both jobs AND class, you will need to think of new abilities for both and this could lead to difficult balancing, since the class abilities will have to be shared with the multiple jobs (coming from that class), but also with the jobs "importing" abilities from that certain class (e.g. like MNK gets abilities from LNC).

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

some people just want to watch the world burn... . and im disappointing in you... .

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I only want the bad parts to burn. I like the rest, well... alot of the rest but there are more parts I wouldn't mind burning...

For the greater good.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Or! They could make so that when you equip a job stone you can use your job's abilities, and to gain more abilities you need to do those pretty interesting quests that beat the crap out of grinding for levels any day of the way.

And then classes can stay and we can never talk about removing jobs ever again and everybody will be happy :D

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Nobody ever mentioned removing jobs.

That would be crazy talk.

Removing classes is the way of the future.

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

well from what they were saying you would be level 50 dark knight, but they will be adding other classes as well which of course would start at level 1. So for example Musketeer is the class starts at level 1, Corsair is the job which unlocks when you get to job level on musketeer, same as the current.

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If they add Muskateer alone it'll perform just as good as any other class in today's job dominated world. (not so great) and if they included its job with it then MSK would be completely outshined by COR and we'll be right where we are now.

Even if we say people want to play Musketeer, its job will pretty much be it with more abilities and a different name so we're not going to deny them playing the Funny hat long coat one for all dude. (for those that say MSK and COR aren't the same thing, look at PLD and GLA which by definition should be nothing alike but that's what we got)

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I still think the Class system hamstrings the job system from being creative with how the game evolves.

I wish they would just focus on the Jobs in the game and get rid of the homogonized Classes. Obviously just my opinion but I just feel the class system is allready showing how jobs are just a mere specialization and make most classes themselves obsolete for practical purposes.

Of course a few classes still benifit from cross-classing but for the most part the jobs are far superior in almost every single way.

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You are correct, all classes do is make it complicated to add more classes and jobs and I do not envy whoever is in charge of creating new classes/jobs and balancing them.

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Originally Posted by Guevara

They of course couldn't make people loose 20 levels (people with classes already at 50). They could very well increase the lvl cap for jobs only, though. Wouldn't be a bad idea, imho.... expecially from abilities point of view... if you increment lv cap for both jobs AND class, you will need to think of new abilities for both and this could lead to difficult balancing, since the class abilities will have to be shared with the multiple jobs (coming from that class), but also with the jobs "importing" abilities from that certain class (e.g. like MNK gets abilities from LNC).

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Yeah they could, its not so difficult and with our EXP gain it won't be a challenge to get your battle jobs up again.

Though, just like they removed dated gear from circulation by making new stuff that is better than it and encouraging people not to make anymore, they could have added jobs and people would play them from scratch and as your job hits cap your matching class fades away and you lose access to it and that would have been the end of it.

Imagine this with me!

1 class more than 1 job.

They announce DRK or SAM or whatever job you want and you're excited and you go and unlock it and oh... its attached to your GLA... you just got 5 abilities and an AF... can you use a great sword? (i dunno, maybe? but how would you equip it? would GLA be able to equip it? do you lose your sword when you equip the stone and then equip a great sword? but... the armoury system... you have a weapon therefor you are... can you be without a weapon? OH GOD I CANT TAKE THIS!

1 class 1 job

OK they announced whatsitsface class, who cares you're really here for DRK/SAM/SMN/whatever, don't lie, you know you are, its cool.
Balancing what can be cross classed or not aside, this class on its own will be just as usable as MRD it today's game, pretty pointless when you have WAR right? ok then that class will probably (I'm just speculating here) be underwhelming and wont stand toe to toe to the jobs... and if they release it and its job at the same time who of us is not going to unlock the cool job and just play the class? or use the class over the job in the majority of content?

That class looks pretty pointless right now, eh?

No classes.

They announce DRK or SAM or whatever job you want and you're excited and you go and unlock it and oh... wait a minute! there is no "oh" you unlock it, you choose one of the weapons available to your jobs and you go out there and play it, using a great sword on your new awesome baby DRK to kill some Coblyns! or maybe use a scythe, why not? and look at you already 30~ now go talk to your mentor figure and unlock a new ability, get a dose of lore! (alternative, make 30 the cap that you unlock by finishing the quest to get a new ability and advance in level to get more abilities until the next quest)

Happiness for everybody!


All of the above scenarios are speculation and a little fear mongering but my concerns are real for the future of the game is real and I'd like it to succeed.

Even in my happy scenario I didn't figure out how sub jobs will work. (but I'll work right on that if SE hires me :) )



Hows this for a long post?

I love the whole Job not having connection to level thing... but I really hope they come up with some kind of way for us to tell how effective a particular person is at the job... Maybe something like naming the number of job skills has at the time, etc.

I say this because before I got Battlevoice, people would call out for me to play BV, and I'd be all "B...whatnow?"

Maybe if they made the job quests soloable instead of listening to the *expletive deleted* that asked for party-only quests, or if they made it real easy to find groups for those quests. I still haven't completed Parley on High Ground, which means I don't have Spirits Within OR Hallowed Ground.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

No classes.

They announce DRK or SAM or whatever job you want and you're excited and you go and unlock it and oh... wait a minute! there is no "oh" you unlock it, you choose one of the weapons available to your jobs and you go out there and play it, using a great sword on your new awesome baby DRK to kill some Coblyns! or maybe use a scythe, why not? and look at you already 30~ now go talk to your mentor figure and unlock a new ability, get a dose of lore! (alternative, make 30 the cap that you unlock by finishing the quest to get a new ability and advance in level to get more abilities until the next quest)

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What is this madness!

You mean I wouldn't be able to cast RAISE on my Warrior! What ever shall I do.