Concerns about Content Finder, Drops, and Difficulty Settings for EG.

First off I'd like to say that I liked a lot of what was said in the E3 interviews. However, I do have a few concerns.

Yoshi-P mentioned difficulty settings, but only in the context of "increasing the challenge" to players. Does this mean there wont be an easy-mode, or that the current Normal mode wont be decreased in difficulty? If this is what it means than this my friends is a mistake. Content Finder or not at the current difficulty setting of say AV, can you imagine 8 noobs quing up for it through content finder with the current difficulty? It would be like 8 rats trying to f*ck a football. They would never get a win. And if anyone wants to come back and say "Oh its not that difficult", then congrats, your a badass.

The simple fact is that over half the players on FFXIV are average to terrible, and the content is so hard that the only way they will ever get wins is if good players pull them through the content. Imagine at 2.0 an influx of new players, mostly being casuals. They might be casuals or avg players, but that doesnt mean they dont wont to experience all the content, even if its just a token win like the easy modes on Primals. All I am saying is I didnt see any mention of an easy mode, and I hope that by difficulty settings that this is included for the success of the game.

It was also mentioned that there would be different sets of gear per difficulty tier. This is also a dangerous idea in my opinion. Maybe Yoshi and team think: well we love you guys so much that were putting in more work to give you unique items per difficulty tier. This is unneeded and not appreciated. I see it breaking down something like this possibly? I hope not, but worst case scenario is this:
AV/CC
Easy mode (if there is one) = only the win
Normal mode = explorers gear and what not
Hard Mode = Darklight..................

Noone like to feel like they are being punished for not being hardcore.

It should be more like this:

Easy mode = explorers gear and what not
Normal mode (which better be a tad easier than current) = Darklight
Hard Mode (which needs to be a good deal harder than Normal) = Darklight +1

See there, you get easy mode for a token victory, some training, and some garbage gear just so they feel like they got something. Normal mode offers a good challenge and you get rewarded accordingly. Hardmode, the hardcore players get bragging rights and gear that is a bit better than the normal mode for their effort, and get the Hardmode achievement.

I dont know for sure how it will turn out, its just my opinion that it needs to turn out something like my last paragraph, if SE really wants to get subs. Much less than this is asking for /ragequit and butthurt from the casual/average player.

If a dev sees this I'd like confirmation on difficulty settings including an easy mode, and I would appreciate my input being brought to bear regarding how careful the team should be about creating "unique" gear per difficulty tier. Not everyone can be the best, but everyone likes to feel special and get their shinies.

For the record I have beaten all content but Garuda (working on it :b), I just want this game to succede, Im not trying to ruin anybodys experience if thats what you think. We have to be a bit flexable FFXIV fans to welcome new players and see this game flourish. That is all.

Good points! An easy mode for all dungeons as a way to nicely incorporate them into mainline content, with worse drops, would help get more content out to more players without sacrificing the integrity of the gear system. Also I know I'm just nitpicking your example, but Darklight would be a bit too powerful as a drop from a slightly easier version of CC or AV, especially if they get rid of the crazy drop rate nonsense.

Token for an easy win? I definitely don't like that.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Token for an easy win? I definitely don't like that.

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Was going to ignore this thread but I can't help but point out a misunderstanding:
'token win', as in, no reward, simply a victory to call it 'cleared'. Not, a 'trade for loot' token.

I've always been a supporter of multiple difficulties, paired with different sets of loot. Easy mode gets normal loot. Normal mode gets normal loot +1. Hard mode gets normal loot +2.

Casual players should be given chance to experience these dungeons and storylines and beating HNM and gods as well, but in easy mode. This is only fair because they pay for the same game, and the same subscription, and they want to see the beautiful dungeons and instances that SE has created for 2.0

Concerns for content finder...where have I seen this before...

Rokien, is that you? :O

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Originally Posted by Skies

Was going to ignore this thread but I can't help but point out a misunderstanding:
'token win', as in, no reward, simply a victory to call it 'cleared'. Not, a 'trade for loot' token.

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Oh, that makes more sense. Thanks.

I sure hope the content finder isn't that simple. I was under the impression that content finder will be more akin to something like how we search for servers on counterstrike rather than random matchmaking. People can put up extra info for their parties like {need someone experienced} would be nice.

Also, content finder is a replacement for shouts in Ul'dah. It should be made clear that you are more likely to get a win if you are with an LS or by then a Free Company that can get together often and practice these. Pickup groups are generally what you described the content finder will create. I'm cool with that. If I don't feel like waiting for any of my LS to want to do it, I'll find a pickup group. The content finder makes finding a pickup group that much easier.

100 percent agree with op not everybody has time to grind hard shit over and over to get just the win. Some people are average players who for the effort deserve decent gear and for the hardcore the last lvl of difficulty for best gear not stupid better either. Plus they get bragging rights and achievement for it.

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

I sure hope the content finder isn't that simple. I was under the impression that content finder will be more akin to something like how we search for servers on counterstrike rather than random matchmaking. People can put up extra info for their parties like {need someone experienced} would be nice.

Also, content finder is a replacement for shouts in Ul'dah. It should be made clear that you are more likely to get a win if you are with an LS or by then a Free Company that can get together often and practice these. Pickup groups are generally what you described the content finder will create. I'm cool with that. If I don't feel like waiting for any of my LS to want to do it, I'll find a pickup group. The content finder makes finding a pickup group that much easier.

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The content finder is more than a replacement for /shout. At the interview with Yoshi P at E3, he said it was also intended for casual players to group together to play the content. His point is that it won't matter if the content is too difficult for casual players that can't spend so much time on the game. Cause you have to admit, it is very difficult. It's nice that they're increasing the drop rate but they need to have a better range of difficulty for average and casual players. Especially since a good deal of people are going to be grouping up with random folks they don't know. Most of these battles are so difficult that they require a ton of dedication, skill, practice, and communication between the players which is typically accomplished among linkshell members who have spent a lot of time running these things together. Grouping up with people who many times won't be on the same page will present a problem.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

I hope not, but worst case scenario is this:
AV/CC
Easy mode (if there is one) = token win
Normal mode = explorers gear and what not
Hard Mode = Darklight..................

Noone like to feel like they are being punished for not being hardcore.

It should be more like this:

Easy mode = explorers gear and what not
Normal mode (which better be a tad easier than current) = Darklight
Hard Mode (which needs to be a good deal harder than Normal) = Darklight +1

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Let's sit down and remove all knowledge that we currently have of this game.

What you are stating is that Players should be awarded gear that is relevant to the difficulty.
Easy mode should recieve simple gear
Normal mode should recieve decent gear
Hard mode should recieve good gear

Isn't that essentially what you've written?
Remove the stigma that surrounds Darklight and essentially this is what you have written in both examples, you've just knocked the second example up by one.

Considering we don't know how easy or difficult these new modes will be we can't possibly begin to speculate on the rewards


I do agree though. It would work this way.
If content finder were to be inplemented in the Eorzea we love and know right now it would just be an over-glorified Ul'Dah shout. Setting up parties doomed to fail unless they know what they are doing.

It's horribly difficult to break the ice in this game when it comes to learning end-game content.

We currently can only run in 8 man groups it's very difficult to just carry players through like in 32 man dungeons. Everybody needs to be performing their best and on the most beneficial job set up (being able to level up so fast also encourages job discrimination).

Until we recieve content for more players there's going to be a horribly defined line between the educated and the forgotten players in the game.

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GIVE ME CONVENIENCE OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!

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I see where this is going.

Whether or not you like OP's signature or not doesn't change the fact that he has a point.Even if you don't agree with him it would be nice for SE to tell us how they are implementing the difficulty modes and gear as well.

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Bitter-mode activated

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I see where this is going.

See I can do it too, its amazing isnt it. Besides, the statements from my sig are from a while back and have special significance to a very specific post. But Ill go out of my way and say "GIVE ME CONVENIENCE OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!" is specific to ease of access and streamlining things in a way that makes sense. It has nothing to do with making everything easy and handing out darklight gear, if thats what you think........(crazy people on this forum). For instance the teleport system, an AH, and the way Content Finder will automatically group up and tke players to a dungeon. However, once there, only the most hardcore players should get the best gear in the game, due too difficulty.

My biggest problem with the OP is not his understanding of how the content finder would possibly work, but rather the fact that newbs or bad players should not be allowed to play with experienced players for an AV run, because they don't know how to run it correctly. How else are players supposed to get experienced in AV runs if they don't take the opportunity to run it with more experienced players, or at the very least - trial and error a new dungeon when it's released.

Everybody is a newb at some point in the process, some players are just slower at getting access to things.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Concerns for content finder...where have I seen this before...

Rokien, is that you? :O

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Speaking of, where has he been?

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Let's sit down and remove all knowledge that we currently have of this game.

What you are stating is that Players should be awarded gear that is relevant to the difficulty.
Easy mode should recieve simple gear
Normal mode should recieve decent gear
Hard mode should recieve good gear

Isn't that essentially what you've written?
Remove the stigma that surrounds Darklight and essentially this is what you have written in both examples, you've just knocked the second example up by one.

Considering we don't know how easy or difficult these new modes will be we can't possibly begin to speculate on the rewards


I do agree though. It would work this way.
If content finder were to be inplemented in the Eorzea we love and know right now it would just be an over-glorified Ul'Dah shout. Setting up parties doomed to fail unless they know what they are doing.

It's horribly difficult to break the ice in this game when it comes to learning end-game content.

We currently can only run in 8 man groups it's very difficult to just carry players through like in 32 man dungeons. Everybody needs to be performing their best and on the most beneficial job set up (being able to level up so fast also encourages job discrimination).

Until we recieve content for more players there's going to be a horribly defined line between the educated and the forgotten players in the game.

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You mostly get what I am saying. However I just want a clear distinction that there actually WILL be an easy mode for are casual/terrible FFXIV players and hopeful furture players once 2.0 goes live. I also want to specify that the difference between normal mode gear and hardmode gear should be a bit better, not night and day. In my example I say Darklight and Darklight +1. Here is a very very simplified example:
Normal mode gear = +10 str
Hard mode gear = +13 str

The Hardcore players get bragging rights, a challenge, and better stats. But not grossly differnent from Normal mode gear. As I said before, people dont like to feel like they are being punished for not being hardcore enough. And honestly i think this is quite fair, and would be inviting to casual players. I myself would be happy to go after the Hardmode gear, but I have friends and family that would say "screw that". And rightfully so, hardcore isnt for everyone, in fact it isnt for most players.

Oh and I do agree that larger-scale content could help this issue a bit. The less players their are the less room for error, but with 24 man raids it should be able to accomodate a couple of casual/avg players. I just dont agree that it has to mean that everything is exclusive to just the better players. Its about choice and options, its not about taking away anything from the hardcore players that really want to persue that type of content.

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Originally Posted by Bharata_Senka

My biggest problem with the OP is not his understanding of how the content finder would possibly work, but rather the fact that newbs or bad players should not be allowed to play with experienced players for an AV run, because they don't know how to run it correctly. How else are players supposed to get experienced in AV runs if they don't take the opportunity to run it with more experienced players, or at the very least - trial and error a new dungeon when it's released.

Everybody is a newb at some point in the process, some players are just slower at getting access to things.

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I agree but you are sort of missing my point. Its not that new or bad players cant group with good/experienced players to get a win in dungeons. Its that the current difficulty level is imo way too high, and should not require this. My thinking is this, if a average group of players that have decent gear and have a decent grasp of their class/job's mechanics que up for a dungeon they have never done before on NORMAL mode, it should offer an average challenge and fair rewards. And this group of players should be able to get a win within 5-6 tries of their first time entering the dungeon. I my opinion the current difficulty of AV/CC is already hard mode, so if they need to add a easy and normal mode at least, and an extreme mode for players that need more of a challenge. (My reasons are I can get wins with my LS, and anytime I go with any P/U group no matter how skilled some of the players are, it only takes a couple of bad players to doom the run). The most important thing to me is that this game succedes, I dont want it to fail due to catering to the hardcore players too much. Believe me I am happy they want to offer us more challenge and more content, but I hope they are keeping in mind the casual and average players that want to experience this content too. Its not enough just too say, oh well they can just buy/make materia'd gear, or they can do GC and leve quests. I have a brother that likes to do EG type content, but doesnt have the time to commit the kind of effort it takes to beat AV/CC. So firstly, his sub is not worth less than anyone elses so there should be difficulty settings to accomodate his needs. Secondly, this should not mean that he can only get "trash" gear, because he doesnt have the time to commit to hardcore EG. No one will be happy grinding Normal mode dungeons to get crap gear. If thats the case then they might as well buy materia'd gear, and if thats the case, they wont want to play. Everyone should be able to experience all EG content with appropriate rewards that are in line with the challenge.

I don't see why SE wouldnt inplemenet difficulty and rewards the way the OP is advising on. It's a method that would work very well. the difficulty settings would not only help in "training" so to speak, in terms of learning the dungeon, but it would also allow casuals to beat the dungeon and get something out of it quite easily while holding off the best loot for the harder settings. I thought this was the standard anyway 0.0 perhaps I'm wrong.

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Yoshi-P mentioned difficulty settings, but only in the context of "increasing the challenge" to players. Does this mean there wont be an easy-mode, or that the current Normal mode wont be decreased in difficulty?

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Why do people always have to assume the worst about every little hint drop with no actual information given?

Is the game really that hard to begin with? Even if current content difficulty is used as a baseline, I don't really forsee any problems with noobs. There's only a few things in this game that are particularly challenging.

Besides, when you play easy mode in any game, the game usually laughs at and mocks you for playing on it.

No.

Cheesecake should not be accessible for easier difficulties. Anyone saying otherwise is a cheesecake-hater.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

No.

Cheesecake should not be accessible for easier difficulties. Anyone saying otherwise is a cheesecake-hater.

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A beacon of logic shines through the darkness of the Final Fantasy XIV forums.

I really agree with the OP. It's a great strategy and somewhat emulates the success Blizzard has had in balancing different skill levels of players. If they can avoid the "content is dead after the next patch" syndrome, then it will be a successful design.

As a side comment, I absolutely find it hilarious when people trash WoW for being too easy, and then I see how poorly they perform in battle settings in FFXIV. It blows my mind.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why do people always have to assume the worst about every little hint drop with no actual information given?

Is the game really that hard to begin with? Even if current content difficulty is used as a baseline, I don't really forsee any problems with noobs. There's only a few things in this game that are particularly challenging.

Besides, when you play easy mode in any game, the game usually laughs at and mocks you for playing on it.

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Simple, becuase its SE. Every painful step of this game from Beta has been (to me) a series of 3 steps forward and 1 step back with disappointing implementations of certain content sprinkled in for fun along the way (Behest, HamDef).

As for your opinion on the current difficulty, depending on how you ellaborate, my first response would be: What game are you playing? Anyone that says the EG content in this game is not hard, are either not in touch with reality, liars, or so bad ass the content seems easy in comparison to their skill and therefore cant relate to the average player. The fact is that EG content is very hard. I am a good player (not a great player or a genius player), and me and my LS had to do AV/CC for a few weeks just to get our first wins. Now granted some of the people in my LS are more the average player, they arent bad players because they were able to learn and progess. But I think this solidifies my point. If the content wasnt so hard it would not have taken this much effort just to get a single win. On the other hand, I know quite a few people that have done CC/AV many many times since the content came out and have yet to get a single win, let alone get to the point where they can beat it on a regular basis.

Oh and Dragon, Rau thanks for not contributing anything useful. Great job guys /thumbs up!

I enjoy playing the game just the way it is, of course granted I solo almost all my xp, but I do pickup groups usually seeing as how my LS usually does runs that don't jive with my schedule. I've had some success and some failures, I don't consider myself a great player and at times not even a good player but one of the reasons I play FFXIV is due to the difficulty. If it's too easy then too many ppl parading around waving their jolies in the air acting like they are the best thing ever... I left FFXI shortly after Abyssea came out b/c the lvl 30 entry level meant that every kid with the ability to setup an account could get a PL to 30 then leech to 80~90 in a matter of days. Suddenly there was a huge influx of players lvl 90 with skill in the dunes range and knowledge of the game equivelant as well.

That being said, if they do make it easier, then I don't agree that easy mode should have any drops... and before you flame me, I have only completed the easy mode of Ifrit and have yet to do the Moogle or Garuda but in regards to someone's post earlier about content no longer being relevant after a month, I think that is how content stays relevant. If everyone can get all the good gear on one or two runs first try then after a month or so nobody is doing those runs anymore.

That's just my 2 cents...

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Originally Posted by Reverend

I enjoy playing the game just the way it is, of course granted I solo almost all my xp, but I do pickup groups usually seeing as how my LS usually does runs that don't jive with my schedule. I've had some success and some failures, I don't consider myself a great player and at times not even a good player but one of the reasons I play FFXIV is due to the difficulty. If it's too easy then too many ppl parading around waving their jolies in the air acting like they are the best thing ever... I left FFXI shortly after Abyssea came out b/c the lvl 30 entry level meant that every kid with the ability to setup an account could get a PL to 30 then leech to 80~90 in a matter of days. Suddenly there was a huge influx of players lvl 90 with skill in the dunes range and knowledge of the game equivelant as well.

That being said, if they do make it easier, then I don't agree that easy mode should have any drops... and before you flame me, I have only completed the easy mode of Ifrit and have yet to do the Moogle or Garuda but in regards to someone's post earlier about content no longer being relevant after a month, I think that is how content stays relevant. If everyone can get all the good gear on one or two runs first try then after a month or so nobody is doing those runs anymore.

That's just my 2 cents...

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I have no problem with what you said. There are plenty of us that enjoy the challenge. Truth be told I am more interested in beating content then getting shinies. But my thread isnt about what the hardcore crowd and those who want to be challenged. Its about making the game more inviting to new players to pull in subs, and to save this game. Also realize I said they need to have a easy, moderate and hard mode with appropriate rewards. So you still have to be a badass to beat the truly hard content and to get the best gear. So I dont really see how what I want effects your stance really, right? The difference with what I am saying and with Abyssea in XI is that Abyssea is all easy mode. There arent set difficulty levels for each bit of content to challenge yourself. As far as easy mode having no drops, thats a debatable point and not the real focus of my point. So maybe easymode should just be a "token win". My 3 most important points are allowing dificulty modes to account for all skill levels so that everyone can expericne this wonderful game that we are ALL paying for, and making sure that there are rewards appropriate to the effort/challenge, and making sure that the difference in rewards between normal and hard modes in content isnt like day and night. This is all very reasonable I think. It would be different if I was asking for everything to be super easy mode and 100% drop rates on uber gear. Then the devs would be in jeopardy of going to the opposite extreme and catering far too much to the casuals. There is a fine line that can be made where we can achieve a reasonable ballance. ^^

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Simple, becuase its SE. Every painful step of this game from Beta has been (to me) a series of 3 steps forward and 1 step back

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I don't really see this. There's only been 1 real step back and that's "low drop rates." It's been all giant leaps forward aside from them. THey've demonstrated that their desire to revamp and revive this game is genuine, so I don't really see such cynicism as valid.

problem with skill levels no matter what people will do the hard one just because it drops the best stuff regardless if they win.

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Originally Posted by indira

problem with skill levels no matter what people will do the hard one just because it drops the best stuff regardless if they win.

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This isnt necessarily the case. Not everyone playes for shinies. Some just want to have fun and experience the dungeons and quests/storylines that go with them. Its one thing that SE is very good at, its making great lore and story. Hell, I am enjoying the hell out of the "end O the world" GC quests, and its not like its hard nor does it give me fat loot (no I dont own a single piece of GC gear, its mostly garbage anyways compared to Darklight and Crafted/melded gear). And that, like the easy mode for Primals is exactly what a lot of people will like. Not everyone plays videogames for hardcore challenge and loot. MMOs can offer a good fun experience with a social aspect and engauging story/events.

Aside from that you might want to go back and read my example of a good difference in stats between normal and hard mode gear. The point is not to make it like night and day. Another point Id like to make is that FFXI had relics, but very few players had relics. Because most people didnt bother with it. They were able to get plenty of fairly badass weapons from other sources which they were happy with. So if they make hard mode, hard enough and the loot from hadrmode is not vastly superior to normal mode.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

You mostly get what I am saying. However I just want a clear distinction that there actually WILL be an easy mode for are casual/terrible FFXIV players and hopeful furture players once 2.0 goes live. I also want to specify that the difference between normal mode gear and hardmode gear should be a bit better, not night and day. In my example I say Darklight and Darklight +1. Here is a very very simplified example:
Normal mode gear = +10 str
Hard mode gear = +13 str

The Hardcore players get bragging rights, a challenge, and better stats. But not grossly differnent from Normal mode gear. As I said before, people dont like to feel like they are being punished for not being hardcore enough. And honestly i think this is quite fair, and would be inviting to casual players. I myself would be happy to go after the Hardmode gear, but I have friends and family that would say "screw that". And rightfully so, hardcore isnt for everyone, in fact it isnt for most players.

Oh and I do agree that larger-scale content could help this issue a bit. The less players their are the less room for error, but with 24 man raids it should be able to accomodate a couple of casual/avg players. I just dont agree that it has to mean that everything is exclusive to just the better players. Its about choice and options, its not about taking away anything from the hardcore players that really want to persue that type of content.

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Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. I think I perhaps misunderstood by thinking too hard about what the items are to us right now rather then you using them as examples.
Again, distance yourself from what the gear is and just think of the hard reward as medium +1.
This may not necessarily mean an physical +1 of that piece of gear but an a better piece of gear.

This doesn't have to incorporate that +3, either. This could be anything

It's a solid idea and makes the game more accessible without harming anybody provided it's done correctly, surely!

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I really agree with the OP. It's a great strategy and somewhat emulates the success Blizzard has had in balancing different skill levels of players. If they can avoid the "content is dead after the next patch" syndrome, then it will be a successful design.

As a side comment, I absolutely find it hilarious when people trash WoW for being too easy, and then I see how poorly they perform in battle settings in FFXIV. It blows my mind.

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WoW is too easy.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

Noone like to feel like they are being punished for not being hardcore.

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This is all thats needs to be said. Not just for ff14 but all MMO's. I just want to play a MMO were i can play with all my friends hardcore or not. Everyone on these forums are here trying to make the game better. Then lets do it by helping the Dev's make it more for all players! lets be honest with are selves. The only way to improve a MMO is to have players. Your not going to keep players by making mindless grind-fests and 8 man super hard content. Keep in mind us "hardcore players" are the few in the MMO world.

"I dont want it to fail due to catering to the hardcore players too much."

Best line of the thread. When has this game favored hardcore players? Outside of a few fights, this game is not hard at all. Unless of course you're speaking of the low RNG which doesn't favor them either outside of the fact that they spend more time on it.

Yes, let's make the rewards for the hardest difficulty not worth the time and effort so that "casuals" can feel like they're just as good as hardcore players. That's exactly what this MMO needs.
Your idea will essentially have everyone running around with the same gear so you don't feel butthurt that people are better than you.
Your idea of "catering too much to the hardcore" is simply any catering to the hardcore. Hard to get loot should be good, not just a +1 hardly any better version of the easy loot.
I really don't understand you guys at all, they're adding special loot for everyone at every difficulty level so everyone can be happy. Why are you against this? Are you just bent on f***ing over the hardcore players so you can feel unique snowflake or so that no one is comparatively better geared than you? You really don't get what making all loot pretty much the same would in essence f***k over and alienate hardcore players. (Stat difference of 3 STR between Normal and HARD? Really? That's a joke.)

LT;DR Hardcore players should be rewarded for their time and effort and not be punished because casuals want gear that is just as good.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

"I dont want it to fail due to catering to the hardcore players too much."

Best line of the thread. When has this game favored hardcore players? Outside of a few fights, this game is not hard at all. Unless of course you're speaking of the low RNG which doesn't favor them either outside of the fact that they spend more time on it.

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That's ironic because this whole thread is catering to casuals.

Lol amy you are the one who wants to do the catering. Wanting hard modes gear to be tons better than normal mode. Its a step up in difficulty not leaps. How is that fare?

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

"I dont want it to fail due to catering to the hardcore players too much."

Best line of the thread. When has this game favored hardcore players? Outside of a few fights, this game is not hard at all. Unless of course you're speaking of the low RNG which doesn't favor them either outside of the fact that they spend more time on it.

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Yep, any time some hardcore content gets introduced, the game's instantly catering to hardcore players, regardless of the fact there's plenty of more casual content...

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

Lol amy you are the one who wants to do the catering. Wanting hard modes gear to be tons better than normal mode. Its a step up in difficulty not leaps. How is that fare?

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Yeah, I want to be catered to just like the casuals. But once you make it so that casuals can get stuff that's almost as good as the gear from hard mode with little or no effort then how does the game do anything to cater to hardcore.

But all the casual complaining aside, I already know the direction of the hardcore content and we will have content that caters to both and your choice to be hardcore or casual will reflect that in game and for that I'm grateful. But you people need to stop complaining that people who complete hard content get better gear this is a staple of every mmo ever and any mmo that doesn't FAILS just like 1.0 did.
Edit: Also, I never said it has to be leaps better. But a 3 stat point difference is an insult.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Yep, any time some hardcore content gets introduced, the game's instantly catering to hardcore players, regardless of the fact there's plenty of more casual content...

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This.

Ok,still not seeing how its fare to make hard modes gear retardly better than normal mode.

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

Ok,still not seeing how its fare to make hard modes gear retardly better than normal mode.

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Because its harder?

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

Ok,still not seeing how its fair to make hard modes gear retardly better than normal mode.

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Maybe because hard mode takes more effort, time, and skill than normal mode? Ever thought about that?