The Market Board Manipulaters are working overtime I see lol

edit - decided I'm not going to kick this bee's nest, not worth the effort.

Let this topic be buried.

https://i.ibb.co/FXFb3MH/bees-not-the-bees.gif
hosting image

Sorry. Had to.

Eh its botting. If you search their names you’ll see they sit in an apartment or fc house 24/7 and as soon as you lower the price, they’ll lower it by 1 gil in the next second

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Eh its botting. If you search their names you’ll see they sit in an apartment or fc house 24/7 and as soon as you lower the price, they’ll lower it by 1 gil in the next second

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That... Sounds like botting.

It's a free market! Now give me your gil, please :3

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Here I tell you how to make an Unlimited amount of Gil...

Create an FC and run Submersibles to exploit the Salvaged Accessories like everyone is doing and is the sole reason we have people and groups owning entire Wards to make automatic Billions of Gil per month.

You don't need the Market Board anymore.

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Here I tell you how to make an Unlimited amount of Gil...

Create an FC and run Submersibles to exploit the Salvaged Accessories like everyone is doing and is the sole reason we have people and groups owning entire Wards to make automatic Billions of Gil per month.

You don't need the Market Board anymore.

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No it isnt, you know some people do it simply because they like housing right ?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

No it isnt, you know some people do it simply because they like housing right ?

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Sounds like something a bot would say...

https://media.tenor.com/zfU7rXgURaIA...suspicious.gif

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Sounds like something a bot would say...

https://media.tenor.com/zfU7rXgURaIA...suspicious.gif

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Yes I am a bot

Beep bop beep bop I am a robot

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Here I tell you how to make an Unlimited amount of Gil...

Create an FC and run Submersibles to exploit the Salvaged Accessories like everyone is doing and is the sole reason we have people and groups owning entire Wards to make automatic Billions of Gil per month.
You don't need the Market Board anymore.

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I hope they nerf this into the absolute ground. Realistically, they should.

To clarify, I don't think it is the norm of behaviour to the extent of 'everyone' - But the amount of Gil you can generate from server is ridiculous, and most especially for those that do it en-masse.

Sorry, OP, but this topic is relevant. There are generally four different breeds of undercutter:

*0 gil (yes, their listing will be above yours because reasons)
*1 gil (the most common; almost every piece of equipment you're trying to sell actively has one of these, sometimes more)
*2 gil (a sneak move in case you lower your listing by 2 gil without checking, leading to the 0 gil scenario)
*1000 gil (less common than the others)

They're all equally annoying. Undercutting them by 0, 1, 2, 5, 10, 11, 50, 100, 110, 111, 500, 1000, 1111, 10000, or 40000 gil doesn't really dissuade them. The only thing that occasionally scares them off is dropping the listing below 30k gil, but the moment you go back up they'll be right back below you, as if they have nothing else to sell. I'm almost convinced there are people buying their own listings, either with alts or from telling friends to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Here I tell you how to make an Unlimited amount of Gil...

Create an FC and run Submersibles to exploit the Salvaged Accessories like everyone is doing and is the sole reason we have people and groups owning entire Wards to make automatic Billions of Gil per month.

You don't need the Market Board anymore.

---

I've been doing things wrong for years then!

Where are my automatic billions of gil???

Exactly how many FC houses would you need to make a billion gil per month?

How much gil does a Salvage sub make per day?

How many months does it take to level subs to the point where they can start making gil?

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automatic

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Are people using naughty 3rd party programs that Daddy Yoshi would be upset with to do the following?:
Craft part upgrades, make repairs, obtain fuel, resend out subs

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

I've been doing things wrong for years then!

Where are my automatic billions of gil???

Exactly how many FC houses would you need to make a billion gil per month?

How much gil does a Salvage sub make per day?

How many months does it take to level subs to the point where they can start making gil?


Are people using naughty 3rd party programs that Daddy Yoshi would be upset with to do the following?:
Craft part upgrades, make repairs, obtain fuel, resend out subs

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A single submarine house makes about 200k to 500k per 22 hrs by using a very specific build that is VERY dependent on RNG, so that is 7.5m per month averaging 250k/submarines house a day, which also is not automated and takes time to do.

Now to make 1 bil per month as the person you quoted says, you would have to do submarines on over 100 houses (actually close to 130 houses if not more), one house takes about 3 to 4 minutes to do submarines, including the queue time, that is about 8 to 9 hours a day that you have to interact with submarines because there is nothing "automatic" there is not even a plugin or a bot for it, it doesnt exist.

So much for "automatic 1 bil per month from submarines", this my friend is why some people should not talk about things they have no clue about

Also just to add a response to the last question, a single submarine house is only fully running making gil once all submarines reach rank 85 and have a specific submarine "equipment", which takes about 4 to 5 months to do to get all 4 to rank 85, that is on average if you max out everything to level which can be quite costy.

I always undercut by 20%, even if its millions, because I cba to wait weeks to sell stuff :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Here I tell you how to make an Unlimited amount of Gil...

Create an FC and run Submersibles to exploit the Salvaged Accessories like everyone is doing and is the sole reason we have people and groups owning entire Wards to make automatic Billions of Gil per month.

You don't need the Market Board anymore.

---

Reminds me of that time I spent in that Housing Market discord. I shouldn't be surprised because it's a black market but it really opens your eyes to the nature of a lot of people playing the market game and how willing they are to screw others over to make a dollar.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

A single submarine house makes about 200k to 500k per 22 hrs by using a very specific build that is VERY dependent on RNG, so that is 7.5m per month averaging 250k/submarines house a day, which also is not automated and takes time to do.

Now to make 1 bil per month as the person you quoted says, you would have to do submarines on over 100 houses (actually close to 130 houses if not more), one house takes about 3 to 4 minutes to do submarines, including the queue time, that is about 8 to 9 hours a day that you have to interact with submarines because there is nothing "automatic" there is not even a plugin or a bot for it, it doesnt exist.

So much for "automatic 1 bil per month from submarines", this my friend is why some people should not talk about things they have no clue about

Also just to add a response to the last question, a single submarine house is only fully running making gil once all submarines reach rank 85 and have a specific submarine "equipment", which takes about 4 to 5 months to do to get all 4 to rank 85, that is on average if you max out everything to level which can be quite costy.

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Actually there is a bot that does what you describe but it's on a more tabboo, would absolutely get you banned if caught, kind of third party application.
I agree with everything you say, I just wanted to point out that such programs actually do exist but they are in the deeper reaches of the mod community to get. The sort of bot applications that involve warp hacks and the like.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Sorry, OP, but this topic is relevant. There are generally four different breeds of undercutter:

*0 gil (yes, their listing will be above yours because reasons)
*1 gil (the most common; almost every piece of equipment you're trying to sell actively has one of these, sometimes more)
*2 gil (a sneak move in case you lower your listing by 2 gil without checking, leading to the 0 gil scenario)
*1000 gil (less common than the others)

They're all equally annoying. Undercutting them by 0, 1, 2, 5, 10, 11, 50, 100, 110, 111, 500, 1000, 1111, 10000, or 40000 gil doesn't really dissuade them. The only thing that occasionally scares them off is dropping the listing below 30k gil, but the moment you go back up they'll be right back below you, as if they have nothing else to sell. I'm almost convinced there are people buying their own listings, either with alts or from telling friends to.

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The only way one could avoid being an "annoying undercutter" in any of your definitions is to only post items on the MB at a price higher than the currently available lowest price.

This sounds less like you hate undercutting, and more like you hate competition in general.

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Originally Posted by Remish

Reminds me of that time I spent in that Housing Market discord. I shouldn't be surprised because it's a black market but it really opens your eyes to the nature of a lot of people playing the market game and how willing they are to screw others over to make a dollar.




Actually there is a bot that does what you describe but it's on a more tabboo, would absolutely get you banned if caught, kind of third party application.
I agree with everything you say, I just wanted to point out that such programs actually do exist but they are in the deeper reaches of the mod community to get. The sort of bot applications that involve warp hacks and the like.

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I doubt any big multiowner doing submarines would take the risk to use warp hacks or just hacks in general, losing their entire income in the process, on a smaller scale maybe or just wannabe's, but they will end up getting banned and barely make anything

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I doubt any big multiowner doing submarines would take the risk to use warp hacks or just hacks in general, losing their entire income in the process, on a smaller scale maybe or just wannabe's, but they will end up getting banned and barely make anything

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I mostly agree but I think the multiowners are exactly the type of people that would be using hacks. Considering you need multiple accounts to have multiple houses nowadays, they could bot on some of the more throwaway accounts, filter the money through MB exchanges with their other accounts, and hide the paper trail. If the bot got caught and banned? No bigger, they have many others. I'm not saying they do this, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone was. It's a lot of work and effort but if this person is selling that gil off as RMT, then it's probably worth the hassle to that induvial. Not saying that all multiowners do this btw, just that a multiowner is probably the first person I would suspect of foul play.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I mostly agree but I think the multiowners are exactly the type of people that would be using hacks. Considering you need multiple accounts to have multiple houses nowadays, they could bot on some of the more throwaway accounts, filter the money through MB exchanges with their other accounts, and hide the paper trail. If the bot got caught and banned? No bigger, they have many others. I'm not saying they do this, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone was. It's a lot of work and effort but if this person is selling that gil off as RMT, then it's probably worth the hassle to that induvial. Not saying that all multiowners do this btw, just that a multiowner is probably the first person I would suspect of foul play.

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You dont need to bot to be a multiowner, all you need is a few accounts and level 1 characters, as for gil trading, there is a very easy way that is actually in the game and requires no MB interaction whatsoever, namely the Mannequin system, there is no hack or anything else needed, it's already in the game by default, however yes it's certain that some people also multiown just to sell gil via RMT because they actually treat it as a job, that wouldnt surprise me

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I hope they nerf this into the absolute ground. Realistically, they should.

To clarify, I don't think it is the norm of behaviour to the extent of 'everyone' - But the amount of Gil you can generate from server is ridiculous, and most especially for those that do it en-masse.

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you don't make billions per month. It's only 15m on average for 4 submarines every 30 days.

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Originally Posted by Elevin

you don't make billions per month. It's only 15m on average for 4 submarines every 30 days.

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It's a lot less than that due to heavy RNG, more in between the range of 7.5m to 10m, and that is using the "best" build.

It took a bit to work out things with the crafting boards. Crafting and gathering is supposed to be something that is done at the players own pace that doesn't involve a lot of teamwork except maybe for simple content like maps. Then there is savage and EX raiding that is the complete opposite of being done at ones own pace since content is only new for so long. People ride this wave of interest in the content and then things get gradually more difficult as people burn out or get stuck, so they have a strong motivation to have the best possible chance to clear the content.

So what happens when someone puts gear and items that are required for giving the best chance possible for a scheduled content type and make it available in a content type that is built around being a slow methodical thing? It transforms that slow and methodical thing into a scheduled thing. On top of which, because it involves a very time consuming process it also pushes people to use bots, which in turn encourages third party selling of gil and all that lovely stuff that we dislike in MMOs.

There's nothing wrong with having crafting in a game, just it has to fit the design of the primary play path for players across the content being pushed. Savage and hardcore content were never a good fit for the craft system they implemented, to be honest. If iLvL was capped at a level accessible to everyone right off the bat and crafting was purely cosmetic alongside the savage rewards, things would probably work out a lot better. SE is worried about keeping people playing and paying, but sometimes it is a good idea to not encourage people to stay as a burned out player base is one of the reasons that World of Warcraft "king of the grind" ended up becoming the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Elevin

you don't make billions per month. It's only 15m on average for 4 submarines every 30 days.

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That is because my response was with respect to someone commenting on owning ward(s) of housing, or at least having access to the equivalent. Now granted, again, I said that this level of behaviour isn't exactly commonplace, however, I will still stand by the fact that it is an absurdly significant amount of server generated Gil, e.g., currency generated by selling at vendor value to an NPC, hence why I have said they should be nerfed or replace with something that focuses more on player exchanges. e.g., Minions/Mounts. Even on an individualistic basis.

I won't attack players for it, as ultimately it's just what the system provides, but I will still disagree with that system, frankly.

That reminds me, there's this one botter on the marketboard on my home server whose retainer name is sandalsbot and I find it amusing ksa;aska;lska

All they do is list the bridesmaid's sandals all day every day at inflated prices

It's a bit staggering sometimes to see how lenient SE is on people owning entire wards of housing. I wonder if they simply don't know, don't care, don't have the resources currently to deal with it, or it's simply not a priority compared to other things. Or worse imo, it's working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

It's a bit staggering sometimes to see how lenient SE is on people owning entire wards of housing. I wonder if they simply don't know, don't care, don't have the resources currently to deal with it, or it's simply not a priority compared to other things. Or worse imo, it's working as intended.

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There are some instances where it is "working as intended" in the sense that it used to be possible for a single player to own multiple houses, and they decided when they changed the rules that they wouldn't apply it retroactively. So those who owned multiple estates before the rule change got to keep them.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

The only way one could avoid being an "annoying undercutter" in any of your definitions is to only post items on the MB at a price higher than the currently available lowest price.

This sounds less like you hate undercutting, and more like you hate competition in general.

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There's competition and there's undercutting by 1 gil every hour with three listings of something that barely ever sells. Not every sellable thing has that issue though.

Solution can be implemented, relist limits od 3/3 for same item a day, relisting fee exponentially increase each time.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Solution can be implemented, relist limits od 3/3 for same item a day, relisting fee exponentially increase each time.

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They should honestly do this. I know someone's going to cry about it being a free market, but relisting wars are a bit toxic because it comes down to who has the time and/or resources(in the case of bots/plugins) to sit there relisting their items over and over again. The market rarely evens out, and most of the time the item crashes meaning that if you're not paying attention you'll be stuck wasting a slot on your retainer selling an item that's not going to sell.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

It's a bit staggering sometimes to see how lenient SE is on people owning entire wards of housing. I wonder if they simply don't know, don't care, don't have the resources currently to deal with it, or it's simply not a priority compared to other things. Or worse imo, it's working as intended.

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Oh they are aware. I'm 100% sure of it. I'm sure there has been 100s of screenshots shoved in their face.

I just don't think they care or know how to limit it.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

There are some instances where it is "working as intended" in the sense that it used to be possible for a single player to own multiple houses, and they decided when they changed the rules that they wouldn't apply it retroactively. So those who owned multiple estates before the rule change got to keep them.

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It's still possible for a single player to own multiple houses on the same world via FCs. "Owned and maintainted" by buying character is easy enough to side step by removing the character that won the lottery for the house from the FC.

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Originally Posted by -Magnai-

That reminds me, there's this one botter on the marketboard on my home server whose retainer name is sandalsbot and I find it amusing ksa;aska;lska

All they do is list the bridesmaid's sandals all day every day at inflated prices

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ksa;;a;asfjiasj;fjaio;swefj;oasjod;ifjaponsvejfpoiasjnv;po

why even call yourself magnai lmao just call yourself Schoolgirl Discordkitten instead

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I hope they nerf this into the absolute ground. Realistically, they should.

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They just added new ranks to submarines and didn't nerf them in any way. Which is good, because they should first be focusing on the bots that ruin money making for regular players. After bots are dealt with and housing isn't the only cheat-free way to reach gil cap, then they can nerf submarines for all I care.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

They just added new ranks to submarines and didn't nerf them in any way. Which is good, because they should first be focusing on the bots that ruin money making for regular players. After bots are dealt with and housing isn't the only cheat-free way to reach gil cap, then they can nerf submarines for all I care.

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Botting is something any game with deal with indefinitely, including ones older than this one, it practically comes with the territory of an MMO. It's also pretty bold of you to presume that it is cheat-free - It's no more cheat-free than any other avenue in the game. Subs themselves are fine, it is the issue with Salvaged accessories that I feel are the issue, especially when it is all entirely vendor-able with no pragmatic use - It makes it as a pretty heavy enabler for an RMT outlet. It's an MMO and the focal point should be on player exchanges, e.g., interacting with marketboard.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Botting is something any game with deal with indefinitely, including ones older than this one, it practically comes with the territory of an MMO. It's also pretty bold of you to presume that it is cheat-free - It's no more cheat-free than any other avenue in the game. Subs themselves are fine, it is the issue with Salvaged accessories that I feel are the issue, especially when it is all entirely vendor-able with no pragmatic use - It makes it as a pretty heavy enabler for an RMT outlet. It's an MMO and the focal point should be on player exchanges, e.g., interacting with marketboard.

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Let's not pretend that support or even this dev team cares about RMT, it wouldnt be rocket science to auto ban all these flying lalas under all main cities on every world or even people trading high amount of gil on suspicious characters that keep on trading and trading and trading at level 1, fact is that they really dont care about it, it's been happening since forever and actually doubled if not more since the population increase, so if bots are running rampant everywhere without any sort of punishment be it for the one selling or the one buying, why cant a person do submarines to make a few mils a day ?

Also if you believe those numbers they are putting out every 2 weeks about player bans because of RMT, I dont know what to tell you.

You would need to a few wards of houses to be making billions a month. It also takes like 6 months or more to level the submarines to the required level for the build needed for that farm. The submarines themselves cost like 15-20m each which means 80-100m worth of submarine per FC which means for a whole ward of submarines (30) 2.4 to 3 billion in submarine value. So it will take around a year or more before you start to see a return on investment. (excluding repair materials and fuel)


I frankly don't think they should be nerfed at all. The economy in this game is rubbish since retainer quick ventures destroy the furniture, green gear (for prior patches) and glam market.

How else are you supposed to make money in this game when you are up against bots and saturated markets due to the limited amount of items that sell which don't come from quick ventures? If SE fix all the above, then I won't mind if submarines get nerfed, but as it currently stands, it's a stress free way of making an income as I am not having to compete for a few gil in saturated markets with bots tanking prices due to oversupply and spend half my day undercutting people when I can just login every 2 days to manage submarines.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Let's not pretend that support or even this dev team cares about RMT, it wouldnt be rocket science to auto ban all these flying lalas under all main cities on every world or even people trading high amount of gil on suspicious characters that keep on trading and trading and trading at level 1, fact is that they really dont care about it, it's been happening since forever and actually doubled if not more since the population increase, so if bots are running rampant everywhere without any sort of punishment be it for the one selling or the one buying, why cant a person do submarines to make a few mils a day ?

Also if you believe those numbers they are putting out every 2 weeks about player bans because of RMT, I dont know what to tell you.

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I never stated that they did - My statement was that it was an issue that every single game deals with it, as it comes with the territory of an MMO, and under premise I don't think that x should be ignored just because y is a more prolific issue. The issue I have with it is that, whilst there is a component of RNG with attaining the Gil, the amount of Gil you can earn per accessory is still fixed depending on the accessory and/or whether extravagant, as I have stated it's a pretty good enabler of easy-RMT, just due to the fact you never really need to interact with the market in the first place because everything you're selling is at a fixed price on vendor.

Where in my statement did I specify that player bans were because of RMT - I'll wait -- The only statement I made was that it a pretty easy enabler of RMT - Again, due to everything being on a fixed sale price at ludicrous vendor prices. Again, ideally, I just think the focus should be market driven e.g., minions, mounts - Wouldn't even bother me if said minions or mounts were rare and thus highly priced. These 2 components are not the same.

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Originally Posted by Elevin

You would need to a few wards of houses to be making billions a month. It also takes like 6 months or more to level the submarines to the required level for the build needed for that farm. The submarines themselves cost like 15-20m each which means 80-100m worth of submarine per FC which means for a whole ward of submarines (30) 2.4 to 3 billion in submarine value. So it will take around a year or more before you start to see a return on investment. (excluding repair materials and fuel)


I frankly don't think they should be nerfed at all. The economy in this game is rubbish since retainer quick ventures destroy the furniture, green gear (for prior patches) and glam market.

How else are you supposed to make money in this game when you are up against bots and saturated markets due to the limited amount of items that sell which don't come from quick ventures? If SE fix all the above, then I won't mind if submarines get nerfed, but as it currently stands, it's a stress free way of making an income as I am not having to compete for a few gil in saturated markets with bots tanking prices due to oversupply and spend half my day undercutting people when I can just login every 2 days to manage submarines.

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These costs are drastically reduced by either crafting the materials yourself, which at best doesn't take very long at all unless you're electing to work yourself at snails pace and even the non-gatherable materials for the modified components are only a fraction of the cost. You're paying an additional good 70M Gil, for the expense of, at best, components which are crafted by a few hours effort at best.

You're welcomed to disagree - I am not saying that submarines themselves should be outright nerfed, just that the accessories behind them I think should, and instead just focusing exclusively around tradeable rarities - Minions, mounts, orchestrions etc.,

If you think Gil is difficult to make in this game then you really aren't trying to make Gil in the first place.

At any rate, I don't really see much worth in continuing the conversation seeing as I know precisely how these develop. I'll just take this as we disagree. I don't think submarines should be worthless, but similarly I don't think they should be a Gil printer on vendor.

I'm more impressed they don't create a death barrier to keep people from getting out of bounds or under the map. Namely the bots. Surely it couldn't be that difficult to do or for out of boundary to create an auto GM ticket.

Helluuuuuu