Golbez is Thordan.
That one caught me off guard, I would have never imagined our boy to come back, but I guess the dragon connection is there.
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Golbez is Thordan.
That one caught me off guard, I would have never imagined our boy to come back, but I guess the dragon connection is there.
...you're gonna need to explain that one, because I don't really see it.
Is it a 'same voice actor' thing? Because not only am I not sure they share a VA from listening to their voices back-to-back (assuming you mean Archbishop Thordan; if there's a non-primal King Thordan scene I don't have it on hand for comparison), but that's also not really a workable piece of evidence. Y'shtola and Titania have the same voice actor, but we're not really using that as evidence of anything but the fact Robyn Addision has a pretty good range.
They have the same combat animations and are both trial bosses. That hasn't happened before with big story trials, because it would make them lose their individuality! Why do you think they usually make unique rigs and animations for those setpiece fights? It's to set them apart! This time they didn't, so I think the best explanation is that Golbez is Thordan.
Evidence:
Ifrit, Odin, Shiva, Ramuh, Ravana, Bismarck, Leviathan, Titan, Bahamut, Nidhogg/Estinien, Sophia, Sephirot, Zurvan, Lakshmi, Moggle Mog, Susano, Tsukuyomi, Byakko, Seiryu, Suzaku, Hades, Titania, Innocence, the Weapons, WoL, Hydaelyn, Zodiark, Endsinger, Barbie and Rubicante DON'T share the same animations.
Why? Because they are all different characters.
Only Thordan and Golbez share animations. They didn't just copy one of the most iconic trial bosses' rigs for another important story trial. That wouldn't make sense, they might do this for side content. But for the MSQ?
No, Thordan and Golbez are the same character.
Other bosses have utilised previous models, iirc.
I think the difference is that not only is it apparently the same model, but the design is unerringly similar too.
Trial bosses are where they tend to not use reskinned models, so seeing it here with Golbez is...particularly awkward.
Perhaps he'll ditch the sword after the phase transition and start fighting more like his Dissidia incarnation.
I think that's what likely will happen. It may be a case of him purposefully holding back to gauge our skill, before deciding that he shouldn't hold back at all if he wishes to win. Betting his enrage is Genesis Rock...the destroyer of all opponents in Dissidia.
...do you actually want me to crack out my favorite very silly subject for this? Because I know shared skeletons and animation sets, you don't wanna fight me on this:
- Omega's a gigantoad, as we all know.
- Althyk is an Odin reskin. (In fact Odin's mostly borrowing from the dullahans.)
- Trinity Seeker, the first Delubrum Reginae Trinity boss, is Ravana. There's a good few Ravana reskins around, actually, it's hard to count 'em up.
- Trinity Avowed, the second Delubrum Reginae Trinity boss (the one with the heat mechanics) is Shiva. This might also be the starting point for Asura, the Fanfest event boss, but we can't be sure yet.
- Hephaistos in P8 incorporates both Byakko and the centaur skeleton that started off as Ultima Weapon.
- Thunder God Cid in Orbonne is reused both for Perfect Thordan in Dragonsong Reprise, and Excalibur in Eureka Orthos.
- Scathach's model is reused for Omega-F, Penthesilea, the Spectral Necromancer, and a good few others; basically any floating female character wielding a long weapon of some kind.
- Inversely, Omega-M was reused for the Warrior of Light trial.
- All the Stormblood Eureka 'zone boss' enemies are reskins: Pazuzu is Diablos, Louhi is Cruise Chaser, and Providence Watcher is Nidhogg.
- Nael Deus Darnus' skeleton has been used in a bunch of places, perhaps most prominent being Nidhogg's Dragoon form in Final Steps.
- Sephirot was reused for Chaos in the Omega raids.
- The Diablo Armament, final boss of the Dalriada, is actually just NeoExDeath.
- If you want to specifically talk trials-to-trials, Ifrit actually was reused: as Diamond Weapon's unarmored form.
Hell, Thordan's skeleton has also been reused a couple times, as Exdeath in the Omega raids and Siegfried in the Masked Carnivale. You just probably didn't notice because you think of Thordan as 'big guy with big sword', so them changing up the weapon in question threw you off; fair enough, it was a surprise when I found out too!
Haha nothing less expected from you!
Of course I would fight you on this, I already prepared! Let's go!
- Omega's a gigantoad, as we all know. We all know and it's heavily modified with the legs and the mechanical bits, to the point of being a genius recreation that can only be considered a prime example of reusing assets. Not comparable to Golbez' stance being a perfect reenactment of Thordan's, another pivotal MSQ boss.
- Althyk is an Odin reskin. (In fact Odin's mostly borrowing from the dullahans.) Yup! As is Raiden and the Pale Rider, Althyk wouldn't compare to a Thordan though!
- Trinity Seeker, the first Delubrum Reginae Trinity boss, is Ravana. There's a good few Ravana reskins around, actually, it's hard to count 'em up. Yeah bunch of Allagan Ravana Reskins along with the second boss of Temple of the Fist! I know my shit, you know what my conditions were! Main story trial bosses or even trial bosses in general! No less!
- Trinity Avowed, the second Delubrum Reginae Trinity boss (the one with the heat mechanics) is Shiva. This might also be the starting point for Asura, the Fanfest event boss, but we can't be sure yet. Oh, that one is genius! Didn't even know that! Would not have guessed.
- Hephaistos in P8 incorporates both Byakko and the centaur skeleton that started off as Ultima Weapon. Absolutely genius, no comparison to Golbez just immediately evoking Thordan on first glance.
- Thunder God Cid in Orbonne is reused both for Perfect Thordan in Dragonsong Reprise, and Excalibur in Eureka Orthos. Another great example of smart asset reuse which hides itself fairly well rather than being all in your face to the point of WANTING to be identified like Tordan and Golbez.
- Scathach's model is reused for Omega-F, Penthesilea, the Spectral Necromancer, and a good few others; basically any floating female character wielding a long weapon of some kind. Yeah the cute puppet from Lapis Manalis I would assume as well. Not main story bosses and fairly well distinguished from one another, Thordan's battle stance tho? That shit's iconic!
- Inversely, Omega-M was reused for the Warrior of Light trial. Never knew that, since the WoL uses a shield most of the time and Omega-M only some of the time. Plus the fluttering cape really helps guide your eye, a great asset reuse that doesn't draw attention to itself, unlike Thordan and Golbez who are both main storyline trial bosses I wanna reiterate!
- All the Stormblood Eureka 'zone boss' enemies are reskins: Pazuzu is Diablos, Louhi is Cruise Chaser, and Providence Watcher is Nidhogg. Those are big smart, except providence watcher and really who cares about the dragons, Niddy is just Hraesvelgr as well, same with Vrtra and Tiamat even. That's like saying two Hyurs have the same rig, big deal.
- Nael Deus Darnus' skeleton has been used in a bunch of places, perhaps most prominent being Nidhogg's Dragoon form in Final Steps. No way! I thought Niddy was unique there! Really well done reuse that doesn't draw attention to itself, however obviously there is a clear connection between Nael and Estinien here, both empowered by an elder dragon? That is a thematic connection right there, one which I would expect for "same battle stance dragon abusers on a holy crusade" Thordan and Golbez as well!
- Sephirot was reused for Chaos in the Omega raids. Yeah that one's a bummer. Fortunately Chaos was just a first raid boss, but such an iconic FF character would have deserved their own rig, ngl.
- The Diablo Armament, final boss of the Dalriada, is actually just NeoExDeath. Yeah this is another absolute banger right here. Genius asset reuse between two iconic side content haymakers.
- If you want to specifically talk trials-to-trials, Ifrit actually was reused: as Diamond Weapon's unarmored form. Oh yeah, I remember that one, good call actually. That one suuuucked, but at least we already knew there was no continuity between that and Ifrit. With Thordan and Golbez we don't know yet! Plus it's just an alter form of Diamond Weapon and it's side content.
I really wanna also mention our favorite feetboss from Kholusia, Forgiven Pedantry, which is a reuse of the final boss of Weeping City, which is a reused Cloud of Darkness from WoD. That's bad asset reuse, but it's side content too
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Hell, Thordan's skeleton has also been reused a couple times, as Exdeath in the Omega raids and Siegfried in the Masked Carnivale. You just probably didn't notice because you think of Thordan as 'big guy with big sword', so them changing up the weapon in question threw you off; fair enough, it was a surprise when I found out too!
Yes exactly!!! They didn't literally scream at you "THIS IS THORDAN" with Exdeath, as the stance was different! Siegfried was immediately noticeable tho, bad one! Still just another side content boss tho, not a big MSQ setpiece fight.
That was a great post Cleretic, but my argument still stands! Everybody who knows Golbez knows Thordan and his iconic stance, it's the first reuse of an MSQ trial boss in another MSQ trial and there's even a clear thematic parallel between the characters of Thordan and Golbez!
Yeah, I don't think this is actually a rule that they stick to so much as just 'a thing they haven't done yet'. They've done basically every other combination of 'enemy from <content type> reused as enemy of <content type>', including the 'trial-to-trial' that you were originally saying was some kind of sacrosanct.
There just isn't actually evidence here beyond this thing they do pretty constantly anyway, so no, I don't think you're onto something. What I would instead bring up as a comparison point is that we actually have a vanishingly small amount of serious 'cross-shard parallel characters', it's just the WoL/Ardbert and Cid/Chai-Nuzz, with that second one only barely being a thin, they only resemble each other in hair/beard style and owning a '___works' company. (Grenoldt and Mowen are very clearly jokes and so run on entirely different narrative rules.) So my argument based on pattern wouldn't be on asset reuse, but more on 'why would they do it this one time with this one character, and with nobody else in the entire Void storyline'.
Honestly it's just weird to me that Golbez uses a sword at all. I know in After Years when he was on his hobo redemption arc, he started using one, but in the original game he was solely a sorcerer versed in the most powerful black magic and summoning.
Where is my Golbez blasting our WoLs down a set of stairs with a giant Thundaga? SMH (Or you know, at the very least the FFIV DS intro Golbez blocking Cecil sword with a wave of lightning)
SE dropped the ball, but it is just Endwalker post, so it's not surprising I suppose. At least his VA is cool.
this is just like saying Urianger is Zenos
well technically he is a warlock and they are allowed to use swords
Ganondorf as an example
also like to point out that none of the trials have been like their original variants
only one that was closest was Rubicante and even then he doesn't do the whole demon thing
I don't really have a problem with Golbez having a sword, because honestly it always kinda weirded me out that he didn't. Look at that guy, this is a man whose armor has as much metal as a small family sedan. He's clearly dressed to walk into melee range and start cutting down a half-dozen guys at once, why is he just straight-up unarmed?
I actually think it makes more logical sense for this Golbez to be armed, just because for XIV Golbez the Shadow Dragon is a very recent thing. IV Golbez cracked out a sword when he had to (particularly in the After Years), and only seems to pass one up when he has the Shadow Dragon. XIV only got the dragon shortly before the fight, so why wouldn't he have the weapon that he wielded beforehand? He's presumably not stupid, he knows he can't just assume the dragon's gonna do all the work. We've pulled insane crap against voidsent and their machinations before, but 'a big sword' is way harder for us to macguffin our way past.
...also, if it needs to be said: this is not the same Golbez, he's allowed to be different.
Well, no, all of the fiends have more or less used their signature element and other things. Scarmiglione even uses zombie adds at one point in his dungeon fight. Barb's hair tornado barrier got upped into a hair bound arena and muscle suit. Sure, they're not one for one recreations, but the Four Fiends never had much screen time or characterization in FFIV anyway. They were major boss fights that showed up and got wrecked for the most part.
On the other hand, Golbez was a present and dangerous villain every single time he showed up. Even when you defeat him in the Dwarven Castle Dark Crystal Room, he still started the encounter by neutralizing the party with Holding Gas, and then fed them to his summoned Shadow Dragon. Only stopped by Rydia showing up, somehow doing AoE Esuna without the Asura summon or white magic, and then you rock his shit. Afterwards he lives on as a hand, and still manages to take the crystal, then later fully regenerates the rest of his body.
He's an obvious homage to Darth Vader, and one of the creators of IV stated as such in an interview or two. But he's got his own fantastic twist.
Giving him a huge sword just sorta ranks up there with the premise of the thread. It was lazy and an excuse to reuse an easy to use model with recolored animations. It's not good eats. :( Hopefully phase 2 does something wonderful.
Also: Golbez as an 'obvious Darth Vader homage', a character definitely not associated with sword-having while also being good at other things.
Actually I do associate Darth Vader with a light saber, rather heavily. Because I grew up with Darth Vader merch, and let me tell you: it was all red, because of the light saber. Darth Vader's iconic image just has a light saber.
And that's fine, because despite that the image of Darth Vader is also not just being a swordsman, we know very well that he's capable of other things. (Mostly choking people one-handed, he does that a lot.) A character is not merely defined by their weapon, and Darth Vader's actually a really good example of that.
Golbez can have a sword without the sword defining him.
So you +1 on the dragon connection being there?
That could be a hint. Or the devs are becoming lazier. I mean it's not like the relic isn't just tomestones! (i don't want to bring up a different discussion just wanted to hint that laziness could be it with the animations)
Your wording was just so off. It's like if Darth Vader showed up in FFXIV and used the force & people would be like "the force exists in FFXIV!!! Is it dynamis? Ether?" And you would be: "Vader ALSO had the force in SW. #smh"
Makes it sound that everything from everything that came from "inspirations" (stolen from mostly other FFs) should be ignored. If so should we ignore most of the story?
Everyone knows the First's version of Golbez is none other than Granson, from the role quests. They both use greatswords.
OP's wording makes it sound like he made a groundbreaking discovery about Golbez's shadow dragon. I'm just pointing out that's been his character thing since before Thordan even existed.
Although your post reminded me to track down those Eorzean midi-chlorians.
I see
lol
Just looked at YT. Trailer analysis videos on FFXIV patch trailers are apparently a thing. Haven't played FFIV yet. Just watched 5 random seconds of a 28 minute analysis video and was told a spoiler for FFIV. Maybe i should have played every other SE game before FFXIV since they reuse so much...
Can't really relate to people getting so hyped about the patch trailers but wish you all much fun with it.
I acquiesce fully to the idea that this is me being very petty and possessive, but I do not wish to let this go. Scathach doesn't deserve to have so many model/skeleton/rig thieves. I've always been fond of the goth/decadent daemon aesthetic so seeing her reduced to basically a test run/tool irritates me to new heights of irrationality. I simply cannot help myself.
Can't be. Darth Vader has no sense of flair, no taste in being capable of magnificent cape flourishes. But also, what other things is Golbez good at? At least in Final Fantasy 14.
Evidently some sort of combat prowess and leadership skills--it's damn hard to recruit and keep in line a bunch of selfish voidsent, especially on loose leashes like he does. But also... well, he caught a dragon, and kept her both hidden and under control for a long time.
He's got a lot of implied skills and powers going; we haven't seen him directly do much to know how he did it, but he's definitely got some tricks. That's a pretty hard thing to pay off in a satisfactory way, he's REALLY gotta stick that landing, but I feel like the writers can swing that.
They already gave swords to two of the fiends, so it can't be that weird for Golbez to have one...right?
The big giveaway is TA whipping out the same three weapons as her, and the AoEs are similar.
Guess it was fitting for the two Amano dudes to have such a connection.
And then you've got Bahamut, who ended up looking significantly different from the rest of his siblings for some reason.
Something I noticed is Chaos's Damning Edict is telegraphed but Sephirot's Ain isn't, so most people usually get hit by the latter. Sephirot also doesn't have his own Latitudinal/Longitudinal Implosion, but Spartoi in Bozja does.
Especially nice since the only reused attack between them are the Acceleration Bombs.
This is so good, LET ME BLOW YOUR MIND!
It's not Bahamut, it's the primal version of Bahamut. The real Bahamut that Tiamat knew actually looked very different!
Here is proof!
https://i.imgur.com/W5APl0X.jpg
Yes that's right! That's official artwork of Midgardsormr's brood that far predates Endwalker and its depiction of Vrtra and Azdaja! So it's still accurate and we clearly see no big mofo primal Bahamut but instead something way more in line with his brethren.
So when Tiamat mentioned that the primal Bahamut bore no resemblance to her beloved, that was not just in terms of character, but also appearance!
Worth noting that some of the difference between that Bahamut and the Bahamut we've seen comes from Allagan augmentation/mutilation; if you look closely the 'horns' on Primal Bahamut are actually Allagan tech, with the real ones having been torn off.
Otherwise, I find it interesting to consider that Primal Bahamut almost seems to be perspective-skewed compared to the original. Like, he's how someone would've drawn Real Bahamut from memory if they'd mainly seen him from front-on and probably lower angles; overemphasising the chest because that's the thing that dominated their view. Which would make a lot of sense, since Bahamut was a big guy and the bulk of the dragons summoning him were... rather smaller.
Golbez should have never had a sword to begin with.
Is one of the few pure magic characters with full armor. BUT NO OTHER WEAPON. Just magic.
Once again Square failed on their own lore.
I can understand the relevance of the greatsword if we were talking about a character who had 'wandered into Eorzea' from another Final Fantasy universe, or who was encountered in the Interdimensional Rift between series entries. But Golbez and the Fiends in FFXIV have their own in-game backstories that already have been shown to differ from the originals. This Golbez could be using an anchor for all we care. His story in FFXIV may bring in some homages to FFIV, but it need not be a strict retelling.
You know, looking at this again, that could indeed be Bahamut on the right and Ratatoskr on the left. It does resemble the summoned Bahamut, and differs quite a bit from the rest in appearance. This art also dates back to Heavensward, well after the primal version (and other concept art) was seen, whereas the Ratatoskr painting appears to have the signature narrow head. There do appear to be fake Allagan "horns" on Bahamut's head, but they alternate with what look like real horns matching the color of his body.
I don't think it was ever stated outright that the summoned version is physically different either. This post from an old thread mentioned something similar:
Can't see the numbered image anymore, but there were some comparisons to the Bahamut minion (which seems to only have the natural horns). Some of these threads also suggested the then-unknown Azdaja on the bottom was Bahamut because of the curved horns, but it's now known that Azdaja has those too.