Could Blue Mage do more in the future?

With Blue mage announced to get a level increase and new spells for 6.45 after two years, I’d like to ask why it’s still as strictly limited as it is? When it first came out limiting it was a good idea but currently it seems like it has the blueprints (pun intended) to be a single target debuff caster in mainstream content thanks to Condensed Libra, like how Dancer is a single target ranged buffer with Standard Step.

Could the Masked Carnivale be made into an area like the Wolves’ Den (only like a backstage prep area)? It could be accessible by an NPC in the location the current Carnival NPC, who already won’t talk to people who aren’t blue mage a sort of filter and the NPCs specific to Blue Mage would be there, Martyn, the Mamool-ja who sell things, the current Carnivale NPC and a new NCP who allows players to sign up for duties 10 levels below current and savage content with their Blue magic hot bars (Which would be like the Den’s PVP hot bars, the regular hot bars get swapped out for them while in the area and only actions for that content can be put on them, the current spellbook actions).

This way the crazy spells that make it impossible to balance like the brush with death, instant death/flat damage and tanking/healing specific (White wind, Mighty Guard, etc) spells are limited like intended and a set of balanced actions and traits for outside the Carnivale is available allowing blues to do the content they currently miss out on.
It wouldn’t be the first time a class had its own content, Bards have their instruments, or the first area to be blocked off from all but one category, the Lalafell houses in Tomra. It also feels like the job doesn’t need the action part of the actions and traits tab page as I imagine the vast majority of people set their skills to the hot bar from the Blue Spellbook menu since they are already in it to select them anyway. Some Blue spells are learned from the Whalaqee totems so we already don’t learn everything from monsters and if we need to for a specific reason couldn’t it be told why using a Blue Mage story quest.

Since the main problem is balancing the more problematic spells is it possible that the job could be refined like this instead?

blu will never be a real boy.

There are a lot of issues with BLU being a regular job and you should probably set your expectations to “it will never happen”.

First off, BLU doesn’t have any innate abilities, it learns absolutely everything from monsters. Imagine a BLU joining your DF run having learned NO SPELLS. Are there ways around this? Yes. Would they require significant work on SE part? Yes. Will they put in that work? Probably not.

Second, BLU is actually really weak. Sure it can do crazy stuff but that’s because it has so much utility like white wind and diamondback. Take those away and what’s left? A really mediocre dps. Like 1k dps behind a BLM of the same level kind of mediocre.

And most importantly, it would just be really boring… BLU has no job mechanics or interesting attacks. You’d have 1 dps spell that you spam, a DoT and some oGCDs. Basically a healer without the healing.

There are more issues with it but those are the main 3 that come to my mind. Don’t get me wrong, I wish BLU could have been a regular job and I’d love them to prove me wrong, but at this stage in its development? I really can’t see it ever happening.

They could overcome any Blu quirks if they really wanted to. When players get their job stone, also give a special totem that teaches all the moves it needs for DF matching content, make it reclaimable from npc for people who already did that quest, lock out its enemy-taught moves from that kind of party matching content. They just need to decide to do it and design its rotation and design more weapons and design a pvp rotation too. So basically almost as resource-heavy as making a new job.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

There are a lot of issues with BLU being a regular job and you should probably set your expectations to “it will never happen”.

First off, BLU doesn’t have any innate abilities, it learns absolutely everything from monsters. Imagine a BLU joining your DF run having learned NO SPELLS. Are there ways around this? Yes. Would they require significant work on SE part? Yes. Will they put in that work? Probably not.

Second, BLU is actually really weak. Sure it can do crazy stuff but that’s because it has so much utility like white wind and diamondback. Take those away and what’s left? A really mediocre dps. Like 1k dps behind a BLM of the same level kind of mediocre.

And most importantly, it would just be really boring… BLU has no job mechanics or interesting attacks. You’d have 1 dps spell that you spam, a DoT and some oGCDs. Basically a healer without the healing.

There are more issues with it but those are the main 3 that come to my mind. Don’t get me wrong, I wish BLU could have been a regular job and I’d love them to prove me wrong, but at this stage in its development? I really can’t see it ever happening.

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These are all issues that could be resolved by having "Unlimited BLU" unlocked by collecting all current blue magic, or a specific selection of blue magic. Or perhaps, you just need to reach a certain level. Unlimited BLU would have a preset selection of actions with altered effects that create a balanced caster DPS next to the other three and would be treated as a separate entity to limited BLU. You cannot customize their moveset, essentially. Will this happen? I wouldn't hold my breath. But my point is that there is nothing that says any attempt at making BLU playable in regular content alongside every other job requires utilizing the spellbook.

Nothing is impossible in game design. The only limitation is the designer's creativity (and money).

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Second, BLU is actually really weak. Sure it can do crazy stuff but that’s because it has so much utility like white wind and diamondback. Take those away and what’s left? A really mediocre dps. Like 1k dps behind a BLM of the same level kind of mediocre.

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I’m going to have to ask you to elaborate on this, the opener outdamages basically everything 10 levels higher than it. Whenever doing 50/60/70/75 fates I regularly get aggro if the tank dies. To my knowledge it’s the highest damage job at 50,60 and I think 70, although summoner might have changed that last one.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

They could overcome any Blu quirks if they really wanted to.

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‘Wanted to’ is the operative phrase. Yes they absolutely could make BLU a regular job if they WANTED TO. But they don’t want to, hence why it’s limited in the first place. They don’t want to put in that extra work. People like to say “oh it would be easy to make it unlimited, all they have to do is this, this, this and this, oh and rework this, oh and balance this, oh and…” and it just keeps going until you realise, ok maybe this is a lot of work and that’s why the devs won’t do it.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

‘Wanted to’ is the operative phrase. Yes they absolutely could make BLU a regular job if they WANTED TO. But they don’t want to, hence why it’s limited in the first place. They don’t want to put in that extra work. People like to say “oh it would be easy to make it unlimited, all they have to do is this, this, this and this, oh and rework this, oh and balance this, oh and…” and it just keeps going until you realise, ok maybe this is a lot of work and that’s why the devs won’t do it.

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That's called game design. Game design is always work.

What they want out of the game or the job is a factor, but it's not a static factor. They are allowed to change their minds based on what they believe as well as what feedback they receive. People change their minds on things all the time. When Super Smash Bros Brawl was released, it was stated that Animal Crossing would never have a fighter added to the series because it didn't make sense. Fast forward to the next Smash Bros. game and the Animal Crossing Villager was the first new character announced. We've seen it before in FFXIV as well with Bow Mage and Gun Mage. People didn't like it during HW so they backpedaled.

Now, I can't speak for Yoshida or the design team. I can't say how for or against turning BLU into a normal job they are, not am I saying it's a likely outcome or an eventual outcome. My point is, saying things like 'it can't happen', 'it's too much work', or 'they don't want to' is the most useless thing you can actually do in the conversation.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

That's called game design. Game design is always work.

What they want out of the game or the job is a factor, but it's not a static factor. They are allowed to change their minds based on what they believe as well as what feedback they receive. People change their minds on things all the time. When Super Smash Bros Brawl was released, it was stated that Animal Crossing would never have a fighter added to the series because it didn't make sense. Fast forward to the next Smash Bros. game and the Animal Crossing Villager was the first new character announced. We've seen it before in FFXIV as well with Bow Mage and Gun Mage. People didn't like it during HW so they backpedaled.

Now, I can't speak for Yoshida or the design team. I can't say how for or against turning BLU into a normal job they are, not am I saying it's a likely outcome or an eventual outcome. My point is, saying things like 'it can't happen', 'it's too much work', or 'they don't want to' is the most useless thing you can actually do in the conversation.

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That’s the way it is though. If they haven’t changed it by this point it likely isn’t going to happen. The voices that wanted it to change have gone unheard and it’s died down now, you get the occasional thread like this one but the majority of people just don’t care about BLU anymore.

It’s side content and at some point you need to just accept that they’re not going to change it and move on. The useless thing at this point is still discussing wanting it to be a regular job at all.

I refuse to touch the job with a 10 foot pole until it becomes no longer limited. This sad joke has gone on long enough.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I refuse to touch the job with a 10 foot pole until it becomes no longer limited. This sad joke has gone on long enough.

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Bully for you.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I’m going to have to ask you to elaborate on this, the opener outdamages basically everything 10 levels higher than it. Whenever doing 50/60/70/75 fates I regularly get aggro if the tank dies. To my knowledge it’s the highest damage job at 50,60 and I think 70, although summoner might have changed that last one.

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BLUs opener is powerful because it has a lot of oGCDs and gimmick spells that it can unload in a short timeframe, it has high burst potential but after that you’re just spamming a 220 potency attack for the next 60 seconds so it drops off rapidly.

Then you have to consider that when BLU learns a spell right now it gets it at level 1, that will not be the case in an unlimited version and then there’s the fact it wouldn’t be able to use certain spells in an unlimited version, such as aetherial mimicry. So it will lose a lot of the spells that make that happen in an unlimited version, especially at lower levels.

What are we realistically looking at a BLU having in an unlimited version? Water cannon for single target (would need to be rebalanced), blood drain for low mp, a generic AoE spell, sharpened knife/fire angon for a movement option, bristle + song of torment as the closest thing BLU has to a realistic combo, 2-3 primal oGCDs (replaced by later ones at higher levels?) and perhaps a few long CD GCDs like rose of destruction and a few heavily rebalanced spells like white wind as a weak heal and off guard on a 2 min CD for utility. It’s not going to reach nearly the same numbers as it does now and the numbers it reaches now are not that great.

I'm certainly not holding hope for blue mage to be a regular job, but I truly hope that should they add something like beast master in the future, it won't be limited. Blue mage is fun, but it sucks not being able to progress the main/current content with it.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

That’s the way it is though. If they haven’t changed it by this point it likely isn’t going to happen. The voices that wanted it to change have gone unheard and it’s died down now, you get the occasional thread like this one but the majority of people just don’t care about BLU anymore.

It’s side content and at some point you need to just accept that they’re not going to change it and move on. The useless thing at this point is still discussing wanting it to be a regular job at all.

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“Don’t ask for anything, because you’ll never get it.” That honestly sounds like a really dangerous mentality to have.

or you can have hopes and dreams go unfulfilled for years and become jaded. know when to let go.

So I realise I forgot to mention in my Original post that this is a question of would there be possible way in the future, like expansion after next. Cabalabob answered with some good points so I thought about them.

I'll probably always hope these things, and they'll fade over time then come back to mind again with when blue mage gets updated, because it does stand out as a combat class that feels excluded from group, my expectations are so low however you would need a shovel to find them XD (sorry poor attempt at humor ^^,). I just wanted to express my thoughts this time as presumably with Hydalyn and Zodiark stuff all wrapped up new expansions will see new places and possibilities.

Absolutely right that Blu has no innate actions at the moment, if they gave it a set of actions that allowed for main content those would become those not become its innate ones. Blue spellbook has been expanded quite a bit which is the reason for my curiosity.

Agreed Blue is indeed weak without its crazy stuff, I compared it to Dancer but meant as a debuff job instead of a buff as Dancer I unless I am mistaken is on average the lowest Physical Ranged dps and thought Blu could be the lowest caster dps in exchange for the debuff aspect.

Boring varies from person to person but again I agree if we just slap Blues current spellbook without the crazy stuff it would be dull, a separate set of actions and traits that are static for main content could be done and given mechanics though right? Again this is asking for way in the future.

As I mentioned I like to think it could be a debuff caster what about something like this:

Condensed Libra Gauge – Looks like the Blue Spellbook (but blank) and has six empty slots in a circle and one in the middle. Keeps track of what aether charges you have accumulated.

Water cannon - level 1 – 250 potency - deals water damage to a single target and applies Umbral Attenuation for 7 seconds. Grants a charge of water aether. Transitions to Feculant Flood on hit.
Feculant Flood – level 30 – 280 potency - deals earth damage to all enemies in a line and applies 1 stack of Umbral Attenuation to damaged foes for 7 seconds. Grants a charge of earth aether. Transitions to Blaze on hit. Cannot be put on hot bar.
Blaze – level 50 – 310 potency – deals ice damage to target and 50% damage to nearby enemies. Grants a charge of ice aether. Applies one stack of Umbra Attenuation to first target hit for 7 seconds. Cannot be put on hot bar.

Umbral Attenuation – increases water, ice and earth damage taken by 1% per stack. Foes can only have a maximum of 3 stacks.

Reflux – level 5 – 250 potency – deals lightning damage to a single target and applies a stack of Astral Attenuation for 7 seconds. Grants a charge of lightning aether. Transitions to Alpine draft on hit.
Alpine Draft – level 30 – 280 potency - deals wind damage to all enemies in a line and applies 1 stack of Umbral Attenuation to damaged foes for 7 seconds. Grants a charge of Wind aether. Transitions to Fire Angon on hit. Cannot be put on hot bar.
Fire Angon – level 50 – 310 potency – deals fire damage to target and 50% damage to nearby enemies. Grants a charge of fire aether. Applies one stack of Umbra Attenuation to first target hit for 7 seconds. Cannot be put on hot bar.

Astral Attenuation – increases lightning, wind and fire damage taken by 1% per stack. Foes can only have a maximum of 3 stacks.

Abyssal Transfixion – level 10 – potency 250 – deals physical damage to a single target and applies a stack of Physical Attenuation on hit for 7 seconds. Transitions to Drill Cannon on hit.
Drill Cannon – level 30 – 280 potency - deals physical damage to all enemies in a line and applies 1 stack of physical Attenuation to damaged foes for 7 seconds. Transitions to Flying Frenzy on hit. Cannot be put on hot bar.
Flying Frenzy – level 50 – 310 potency – Leaps to the target dealing physical damage to target and 50% damage to nearby enemies. Coverts aether charges into stacks of condensed aether. Applies one stack of Physical Attenuation to first target hit for 7 seconds. Cannot be put on hot bar.

Physical Attenuation – increases Physical damage taken by 1% per stack. Foes can only have a maximum of 3 stacks.

Matra Magic – Level 50 – potency 100 – Consumes Condensed aether to deal unaspected damage to a single target up to the number of Condensed aether stacks.

This was fun and I felt like sharing. ^^

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Second, BLU is actually really weak. Sure it can do crazy stuff but that’s because it has so much utility like white wind and diamondback. Take those away and what’s left? A really mediocre dps. Like 1k dps behind a BLM of the same level kind of mediocre.

And most importantly, it would just be really boring… BLU has no job mechanics or interesting attacks. You’d have 1 dps spell that you spam, a DoT and some oGCDs. Basically a healer without the healing.

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Anyone who would say that BLU is really weak clearly doesn't know how to play it. BLU is freakishly powerful. The Moon Flute opener itself is over 12k potency (if my math is right) in the space of just 15 seconds. Several of the oGCD spells can be sneaked in between Moon Flutes. And Choco Meteor pretty much ERASES entire FATEs when vibe checking isn't an option.

If BLU isn't your cup of tea, that's fine, but the fact is that, when played correctly, BLU is STUPIDLY OP. For them to make BLU not be a limited job would require that they massively nerf it.

There's never been a plan to change BLU to a non-limited job.
Not sure why people think there's ever a chance it'll happen.

You'd need to create a complete new kit for BLU in order to work.

All the broken spells, repeat but with a different elements/side effect, would have to be removed/reworked/toned down.
I think they could allow BLU in more content, currently it's waaay too limited even for a "limited job".

The idea of a limited job isn't a bad one, just that the executions wasn't up to the expectations.

Allowing BLU in Eureka or Deep Dungeon could increase interest in these content.
You could even allow it in ultimate, at least UCOB and UWU with a Blue Legend title or something. These contents are getting cheesed anyway.

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Originally Posted by lionheart13456765

As I mentioned I like to think it could be a debuff caster what about something like this:

Condensed Libra Gauge – Looks like the Blue Spellbook (but blank) and has six empty slots in a circle and one in the middle. Keeps track of what aether charges you have accumulated.


Umbral Attenuation – increases water, ice and earth damage taken by 1% per stack. Foes can only have a maximum of 3 stacks.

Astral Attenuation – increases lightning, wind and fire damage taken by 1% per stack. Foes can only have a maximum of 3 stacks.

Physical Attenuation – increases Physical damage taken by 1% per stack. Foes can only have a maximum of 3 stacks.

Matra Magic – Level 50 – potency 100 – Consumes Condensed aether to deal unaspected damage to a single target up to the number of Condensed aether stacks.

This was fun and I felt like sharing. ^^

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You share away, have fun with it if it makes you happy, all I’m trying to do is set you some realistic expectations that nothing will likely come of it.

As for your idea:
Your attenuations would need to be a little more generic for regular content particularly the Elements one since those aren’t really a thing for most jobs, for example, outside of RDM, earth and wind only really exist on WHM and they have all but been replaced by holy spells like glare and dia at this point and basically no one uses water except NIN if you count suiton. Thunder and ice are a small part of BLM’s rotation while fire is a huge part so there’s a big imbalance there. Meanwhile the physical one would be hugely desirable for melees because it’s generic enough to just be any physical damage, so you’d probably end up spamming the physical one and we’ve seen with previous jobs that this can go badly for balance (DRG + ranged stacking for piercing debuff).

You’d be better off with something like one attenuation increases physical damage, one increases magical damage which unlocks the third one that increases both.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

First off, BLU doesn’t have any innate abilities, it learns absolutely everything from monsters. Imagine a BLU joining your DF run having learned NO SPELLS. Are there ways around this? Yes. Would they require significant work on SE part? Yes. Will they put in that work? Probably not.

Second, BLU is actually really weak. Sure it can do crazy stuff but that’s because it has so much utility like white wind and diamondback. Take those away and what’s left? A really mediocre dps. Like 1k dps behind a BLM of the same level kind of mediocre.

And most importantly, it would just be really boring… BLU has no job mechanics or interesting attacks. You’d have 1 dps spell that you spam, a DoT and some oGCDs. Basically a healer without the healing.

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There are ways to implement a BLU that is not limited, while still respecting the 'identity' of BLU. For example, this solves problem 1, that of 'what if someone join and not learn any skill???' Also, you can have people joining your stuff as base classes. Like, I could go grief and sign up for Mt Gulg as a GLD and be missing most of my defensives. Or a CNJ and have to rely on just Cure2 and Medica. It's not exactly a strong defense

2: It's actually really strong. Yes most of it's damage is concentrated into a burst window, but that means downtimes favor it moreso than any other class. Doesn't include the possibility that stuff could be buffed/nerfed to accomodate it's un-limiting. In fact, I know a guy who did a lot of BLU theorycrafting, who says that 70 BLU is actually insanely well balanced vs the DPS checks of the SB raids, and the only two skills that are 'problematic' balancewise are Aetherial Mimicry (just have it consider you to always be DPS Mimic, balance around that) and I believe Basic Instinct. Personally though I'd just take an extra few hours to go through and redo the potencies to suit an actual rotation/gameplay loop that isn't 'spam this 220p filler'

3: That's why I suggested a 'job mechanic', making it so you have more than 'one dps spell that you spam, a dot and some ogcds'. You also shouldn't be so reductive. At it's core, BRD is also 'a dps spell (Burst Shot), a DOT (Iron Jaws refreshing), and some OGCDs (the other crap).

The problem is that SE does not want to implement said ideas, be it because of dev time, 'it doesn't match our vision of what we want BLU to be', or they have some info we don't that says that the current design is actually the best thing since sliced bread and we're just too stupid to understand how genius it is to have a job in the game that cannot do the endgame content or story

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

or they have some info we don't that says that the current design is actually the best thing since sliced bread and we're just too stupid to understand how genius it is to have a job in the game that cannot do the endgame content or story

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You say that, but having a solitary egg in a different basket has at least allowed one job to remain fun