Want to know why tank is almost always the role in need?

Edit: Forget it. Too many people not even bothering to read what I write. Not checking this thread anymore.

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You might as well tell me to pop Rampart between packs because it looks cool.

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It does look cool tho.

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Originally Posted by Bunnycake

It does look cool tho.

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I mean, I do pop it when I'm hanging around at the FC house for that reason, so I'll give you that one.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

You might as well tell me to pop Rampart between packs because it looks cool.

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What's Rampart?

I main healer and I have no problem with your line of thinking, to me, a tank should pull when and how they like, my house is not on fire so you do whats comfortable for you.

If I catch a mobs attention by accident I will usually come stand by you, and it happens, but I am not about to pull extra things.

unfortunately.. the prevailing theory on these forums is not the same so expect some flack. expect comments about you ruining others experience because you arent pulling wall to wall and sprinting things down.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

If I catch a mobs attention by accident I will usually come stand by you,

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Accidents happen, and I am more than happy to pull that mob off of you. I don't subscribe to "you pull, you tank". I just want you to not make it harder for me to do my job.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Accidents happen, and I am more than happy to pull that mob off of you. I don't subscribe to "you pull, you tank". I just want you to not make it harder for me to do my job.

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lol, as a healer, I appreciate tanks who play within their reasonable comfort zone and actually know what mitigation is... because pulling wall to wall and standing in the middle of every aoe they bring down, makes it harder to do my job lol (even better if they have sprinted through and my cd isnt up from the last time they did that so are out of range)

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

lol, as a healer, I appreciate tanks who play within their reasonable comfort zone and actually know what mitigation is... because pulling wall to wall and standing in the middle of every aoe they bring down, makes it harder to do my job lol (even better if they have sprinted through and my cd isnt up from the last time they did that so are out of range)

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Oh I think some think that's tanky manly to stand in all of them and don't forget to collect those damage ups!

Idk about all that cause the reason I don't play tank is cause I find it really boring :D

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Maybe because we're sick of getting blamed when the healer pulls and I can't pull aggro off of them because they keep running to the second pack.

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You should be running ahead of them. A single shield lob gives you enough enmity to hold something until someone else deals about 70x as much damage as your shield lob (or heals 140x as much).

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And don't tell me to use Sprint. Sprint is part of my mitigation. I use it when I need to move faster to dodge something. it. You might as well tell me to pop Rampart between packs because it looks cool.

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You're not going to need sprint to dodge anything once the trash is parked. Use it between packs.

I thought it was moreso because a lot of players have tankxiety xD

We're always the role in need because tank is the role for chads, and there's only so many of us around.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Sprint is part of my mitigation.

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And so you should when your mitigations are most important, which is during trash pulls that output far more damage than most boss mechanics, right?

While I agree on some reservation with ARR content, and some specific dungeons like Amaurot with extra spicy pulls, wtw should be considered the bare minimum otherwise and thus it should be impossible for the party to pull ahead because you already pulled everything, and you should be using Sprint because letting it drift indefinitely until you reach the boss, which I must assume its what you mean because that's when you need to make snap decisions on dodging, would be a complete and utter waste, usually you can use it and have it back for the boss.

That said, if a Healer or DPS pulls ahead of you, does not bring it to you, and die, it's 100% on them and if they blame you, you tell them to hold that L, simple as that.

I'm cool with teammates pulling mobs, as long as they bring the enemies my way.

Sprint is really good mitigation, but the best place to use it is typically just before you get aggro in the first place letting you have 20 seconds of the buff, and that should greatly mitigate damage while moving between the two packs. All you need to hold emnity is a single aoe gcd that most tanks can do while running through the pack. And then if you're worried either an off global aoe, or a few ranged gcds while moving to the next pack will insure you keep aggro. You will never have to worry about someone pulling ahead of you, if you're always the person in front :)

If a dps happens to pull aggro, great. Thats more effective HP for you and your healer while you're getting things grouped. Bonus points if they use something like arms length to help mitigate the damage you take later when you get it back.

Sprint lasts way longer when used outside of combat - so you pop it before you aggro mobs :)

I"m become super very pissed with the sprint button... every one uses it and leaves me behind and I can"t catch up and I almost quit the ghimlyt dark bc of ppl sprinting ahead of me.. AND I CAN"T HEAL THEM UNTIL THEY ALMOST DIED because they"re too fast. I didn"t leave and just tried to complete the dungeon because I need it for msq. But right now I HATE SPRINT SO MUCH. I was literally yelling at the tank not to sprint because I can"t keep up but he doesn't listen. And I know all of you will make fun of me but I just can"t explain HOW MUCH I HATE SPRINT IT DRIVES ME CRAZY. And no I have to do dungeons and deal with people sprinting because I need to do msq. But I got so close to kicking people for sprinting even though I know it's a ME problem. I"m so sick of people leaving me behind and going so fast. I REALLY hate Sprint and almost punched my computer once but my mom stopped me so that's HOW BAD it gets. And I ALWAYS get left behind by tank and can"t heal them. And yes it makes no sense at all but I SUPER TURBO CHARGE HATE SPRINT. I know people will just tell me to learn getting over it but I"M SO HATING SPRINT RIGHT NOW AND HAVE TO RANT.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Maybe because we're sick of getting blamed when the healer pulls and I can't pull aggro off of them because they keep running to the second pack. Seriously, I main tank but I almost never play it in roulette because I don't know the team I'm going to get. How hard is it to just let the tank run in first?

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If this is other games I can understand, but ... dungeon in FF14 is so easy, is it even worth to make it into an issue?

Like don't get me wrong. If I'm not tanking, I always let the tanks do whatever they want. I don't face pull or run ahead of them, and if accident happens I'll just stand on the tank. Wall to wall or single pack doesn't really matter to me. But when I play as tank ... well, I also don't care what people do.

- People want to run ahead? I don't mind, but that doesn't really happen 'cause I'm usually running ahead myself.
- If people want to face pull? I don't mind. I'm not one of those "you pull you tank" player ('cause that feel just like an egostrip). Be it accident or on purpose, I'm always gonna try to pull off others, and it doesn't really bother me.

Is this thread's bait better or worse with the "sprint is my mit" part? Would it be recognizable as bait if it didnt have that? The issue parody has is that it needs to be crazier than reality otherwise you're just repeating what you are trying to parody. But if reality is already crazy, parody simply becomes unbelievable. Quite the conundrum.

I never have any issue when I tank roulettes at all levels.

Are you rolling your mitigation correctly?

Time or two someone's gotten ahead of me because I take a couple seconds to zone into a new area. Zone in and they're already at the first pull, heading for the second. Pop sprint and try to catch up but sometimes they just continue on to the second pack not noticing or caring that the tank isn't there and then Hydaelyn isn't going to save them. Sometimes they're close enough for a gap closer and sometimes not.

What annoys me is getting rescued into things when that happens because now I don't know what's around me at first or what my positioning is. Died a time or two on that when I couldn't get mit up fast enough.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Maybe because we're sick of getting blamed when the healer pulls and I can't pull aggro off of them because they keep running to the second pack. Seriously, I main tank but I almost never play it in roulette because I don't know the team I'm going to get. How hard is it to just let the tank run in first?

And don't tell me to use Sprint. Sprint is part of my mitigation. I use it when I need to move faster to dodge something. it. You might as well tell me to pop Rampart between packs because it looks cool.

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Is this bait?

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Maybe because we're sick of getting blamed when the healer pulls and I can't pull aggro off of them because they keep running to the second pack.

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That doesn't happen to me because I sprint ahead of the party the moment it begins and few people can keep up with me, nevermind run ahead. As I run through mob packs I hit my aoe attack without stopping, timing it perfectly to line up with the mobs passing through me. When any battle ends I immediately hit sprint because it lasts 20 seconds out of battles and I move on ahead before they do. It's worked in thousands of dungeon runs.

But tank isn't actually the role in need most often. The roulette's adventurer in need just doesn't update or lags.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

You should be running ahead of them. A single shield lob gives you enough enmity to hold something until someone else deals about 70x as much damage as your shield lob (or heals 140x as much).

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That's good for one mob. Meanwhile I still have to pull the other four off when the fools start AoEing. And don't tell me to cycle through. Targeting in this game is trash.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

And so you should when your mitigations are most important, which is during trash pulls that output far more damage than most boss mechanics, right?

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Yes, to dodge things. Not to get from point A to point B faster. Saying I should use it that way because the rest of my team is impatient is like saying the healer should sacrifice DPS for more heals because I don't use enough cooldowns.

I've found tanking to be easy. Do your AoE spam, use your mitigation, and that's like 90% of being a tank.

If you get aggro...and even if it's a pull i know I won't survive if I take it from you...imma do it. I'm a tank. I die first. Not you. And if I die first then I know I did my job well as long as I did my Aoe rotations and mitigations.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

And don't tell me to use Sprint. Sprint is part of my mitigation. I use it when I need to move faster to dodge something. it.

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You're using sprint wrong, then.
Tank main since the start and if someones pulling ahead of me it's a good indication I'm not going fast enough. Thankfully it never happens as I use sprint to get there.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Maybe because we're sick of getting blamed when the healer pulls and I can't pull aggro off of them because they keep running to the second pack. Seriously, I main tank but I almost never play it in roulette because I don't know the team I'm going to get. How hard is it to just let the tank run in first?

And don't tell me to use Sprint. Sprint is part of my mitigation. I use it when I need to move faster to dodge something. it. You might as well tell me to pop Rampart between packs because it looks cool.

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I've been playing this game for nearly 10 years and have run thousands of dungeons on tank. I can probably count on one hand the number of times DPS or healers ran in front of me. It is this player's opinion that if this is a common problem for you... it is probably your problem. The moment that barrier drops, start going. The moment trash mobs are dead, start moving to the next group/boss. Other players shouldn't be in front of you that often.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I've been playing this game for nearly 10 years and have run thousands of dungeons on tank. I can probably count on one hand the number of times DPS or healers ran in front of me. It is this player's opinion that if this is a common problem for you... it is probably your problem. The moment that barrier drops, start going. The moment trash mobs are dead, start moving to the next group/boss. Other players shouldn't be in front of you that often.

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I do this. Not exactly possible when you have a ranged DPS standing by the exit when the boss dies (an option I don't have since I'm melee and have to position the boss a certain way) hit sprint and go. It doesn't happen all the time. It just happens enough that its frustrating.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

That's good for one mob. Meanwhile I still have to pull the other four off when the fools start AoEing. And don't tell me to cycle through. Targeting in this game is trash.

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You should be AoEing too. I'm not going to sit there single targetting when I can do 5x-8x as much damage with AoEs.

Thread TLDR, based on responsense..,:

You lead by example, if you ain't comfortable, say so..,

I'd assume a Number of the DPS that run ahead, or healers(co-tank in some rare duty) tend to stop before enmity range. [Depending on how much they've done the content, they'd have learned the range limit, or do a Lil accident]

Pulls/Attacks/Heals while the party is moving doesn't really hurt anyone, long as they group them up on/within range of the tank.

<when BLMing, I tend to go a bit farther/ahead than the tank when we reached the wall, so that I'm away from the AOE, but we'll withing their smacking range. if anything did get ripped from them, then the mobs wouldn't be behind them, but right on them. same with other dps, but that's just me. as I have decent enough experience on all the roles. Heck, you'd aoe Medica 2 in the old Castrum to pull the adds to you, for easier aoeing the adds>

The trolls are apparent, some may even play reasonable, till you call them out on some hypocrisy.

<got that from a lala that claimed I ran ahead as healer. (was waiting well out of Enmity range) only for them to do so later. Called out, they started trolling, getting the tank, and themselves killed constantly. Thus me and the Other DPS had to Duo the boss, unfortunately they pulled the tank down with them.>

A good Party knows well how to work together. Of course there are many new players, as there are old, or rusty ones.
So it tends to lead what your own assumptions and expectations make you react.<I know for sure I, and many others I interact with, would have some cooperation/expectations if competence, but understand that there are just days when one isn't doing so well..,>

We all want some rush going through us, if we die, we die. if we KO, we KO. if we Succeed, then all great.

Sprint as far as you can handle. if you aren't sure, let others know..,

If they are a ______ or a troll, it'll be all too obvious, they like being caught.
But most bad situations tend to be unintentional for sure.., and have the most basic or simple explanations.

<like gear, I feel oh so surprised when I rip off a tank, but I understand, I just go with the struggles.>


edit:
My Personal TLDR:
Usually best for the party to be stuck on the "Tanks Rear Defense", be they sprinting, or running.
It's what I'd do regardless, of they DC, or afk, well wait ahead til they get back. or slow go it.

If they're failing it, or clearly stalling, that's on them. Other wise, as Jocat says.., I'll stick to the tank, like a _______

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Originally Posted by Rongway

You should be AoEing too. I'm not going to sit there single targetting when I can do 5x-8x as much damage with AoEs.

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Did you miss the beginning of the thread where I said the entire problem was someone else grabbing the mobs and running ahead? I can't AoE if I can't catch the mobs.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Yes, to dodge things. Not to get from point A to point B faster. Saying I should use it that way because the rest of my team is impatient is like saying the healer should sacrifice DPS for more heals because I don't use enough cooldowns.

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Okay this is the point I know for sure this is a bait, but just to reiterate for anyone else that comes across this post...

By default, mob running speed is slightly, not by a lot, but slightly faster than the player's, this allows them to always catch up to you, however, when you hit sprint, something truly magical happens... you run faster than the mobs, and what this means in terms of damage reduction is that the mobs can't auto attack you! enemy autos happen every server tick so every 3 seconds, if you spend 18 seconds worth of a Sprint popping off a head of the mob pack, you avoided 6 salves of autos, which means you completely negated all that damage, which means that when correctly applied, Sprint becomes better mitigation than Hallowed Ground, truly spectacular stuff there.

One AoE combo from you (the tank) and all mobs will switch to you. There, problem solved.

I'm ok with being the role in need. I get through my dailies faster; and, if a healer gets too big for his britches, f them. Healing is their problem.

My 1st reason: Tank Anxiety.
I always viewed the Tank as the leader with the most responsibilities. And as a N00b, that pressure frightened me.

Fast Foreword once I gain confidence, and Experience.....

Reason 2: Its kinda boring.
IMO of course. I like PLD & GNB, but the Role is a little dull, I actually want more Mechanics and Responsibilities tailored to Tanks. Sure Tank Anxiety will return, but when I eventually overcome it, Id like to do more then just Draw Aggro.
I cant say exactly what I want, but just abit more.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Thread TLDR, based on responsense..,:

You lead by example, if you ain't comfortable, say so..,

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That sums up why tank is usually AIN quite well. Most players aren't comfortable being the leader and generally are looking to the tank to fill that role (even though the leader doesn't need to be the tank).

I'm not comfortable myself but I'll lead when that's what it takes for things to get done.

As for tanking technique, I'm not going to get picky. I'd rather let players develop their style so they're comfortable as a tank then nitpick over stuff that really doesn't matter in the majority of content and turn them off the role.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

One AoE combo from you (the tank) and all mobs will switch to you. There, problem solved.

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It's still annoying and disrespectful.

Plus it actually slows the run down. The tank needs longer to gather up all enemies so the group can't properly aoe them down and the healer has to use extra heals.

It's like saying you can stand in mechanics because with one heal the problem is solved (healer adjust).

I understand the original poster said they will not check again, but I will put in my piece in case they still do or another person may need it. Most of the posters are right in some ways. Problem is, the full answer is staggered across multiple posts. Like the Shield Lob comment then asking for AoE may be perceived as asking for 2 GCDs at once even though different GCDs are being talked about. I will try to sum up what I do to help.

- Pop Sprint before engaging to get 20 seconds instead of just 10 seconds
- Use Lightning Shot then Rough Divide to get a hit in and rush to the first group (Shield Lob and Intervene for PLD case. Original Poster is a GNB while I am writing this.)
- Use the full 2 hit AoE combo
- Drag the enemies to the second group. Sprint should still be up, so you will run ahead of the enemies and take almost no damage from autos eventually. Usually the AoE combo has enough enmity to hold, but you can still lob Lightning Shots as you run by as needed. Sometimes the DPS mutilate a target hard as you drag >.>
- If everything goes right, Lightning Shot and Rough Divide to the closest NPC of second group for another rush in.
- Start up your toolkit staggering tank cooldowns, No Mercy, Bow Shock DoT, AoE combos, Double Down, etc.

If for some reason Sprint is nowhere close to being up for the next wall to wall, use Arm's Length to slow the enemies when you drag them. Usually Sprint will be up to some capacity during the second wall to wall pull.

As for evidence of other non-tanks pulling for the tank, it is up to those players to correct their pull by directing the enemies to the tank. If they do not, you will just have to do your best with Sprint. We have to remember it is usually just one person doing this and the other players will usually support you if you still try to protect them. If the one person pulling is still running like a headless chicken away from you with the second pull, you will have to weigh in where the others are and triage to the best of your abilities who you can save. Use a few AoEs to stabilize what's on you first and slowly use Lightning Shot and Provoke on the loose ones running around the best you can. I know this drives down your personal DPS and makes the pull take longer, but we do what we can to protect the others in the event the pulling player dies with loose stuff. If the other players yank it off to drag to you or Rescue the pulling player to your position, even better.

If the pulling player dies and blames you for not saving them of 3 - 5 mauling them, the response back is for them to drag the enemies to the tank to solve that issue. Moving enemies too much randomizes the AoE projection locations more and makes DPS AoE damage unreliable sometimes missing a few targets. Causing the tank to use Lightning Shot instead of AoEs is also a problem for lowering group damage too. Melee DPS don't have positionals on AoE rotations, so that part isn't much issue at least.

Tanks all have gapclosers. Non-SGE healers don't. Just...use a gap closer to catch up to the mob the healer pulled and sprint. Dungeons are easy, the healer isn't going to die to 3 autos.