Something I've brought up before is that, in order to help SCH carve out a stronger identity away from WHM and SGE, I'd like to see it embrace its arcane magic/poison magic roots as an ACN. Additionally, I'd like to see SCH's resource system revamped and made more meaningful. I want to share some of the updated ideas I've been working on to see what others think. This is not every action available to SCH, just some core elements I want to go over that convey an idea of how this can work.
Inspiration on some of the action names comes from FFVIII and FFXII spells. Links on the spell names are references to the animations.
Eos and Selene
I'd like to see more identity restored to the SCH's faeries and revamp the tools associated with them. In this concept, the faerie no longer casts Embrace. Both Summon Eos and Summon Selene remain as GCD spells.
Aetherpact: OGCD - Potency is decreased to 150 and no longer consumes your Fey Gauge. Your Faerie will follow the ally she's tethered to unless manually placed. Aetherpact replaces Summon Eos or Summon Selene on your hotbar depending on which is summoned.
This change to Aetherpact means your faerie will be idle most of the time in combat, like with Carbuncle, allowing her to be more responsive to when pet actions are used.
Dissipation: OGCD - Swaps your Faerie from Eos to Selene or vice versa. Has a 90 second cooldown.
Fey Blessing: OGCD - Is now an upgrade of Whispering Dawn. Applies a 150 potency HoT on the party for 15 seconds. While Eos is summoned, increases healing received by 10% for 10 seconds. While Selene is summoned, decreases damage taken by 10% for 10 seconds.
Fey Blessing has 2 charges and a cooldown of 30 seconds.
Fey Spark: OGCD - Deals damage with a potency of 80 to one enemy and applies a Fey Mark to the target for 10 seconds. Fey Spark also has 2 charges and a cooldown of 30 seconds.
Fey Marks will become important when we discuss DPS buttons. It is a unique debuff that should create a visual overlay atop the enemy while in effect similarly to the purple "3"s from this screenshot of Genshin Impact:
https://i.imgur.com/n9IBl7R.jpg
Fey Light: GCD - While Eos is summoned, this action becomes Protraction, increasing your target's max HP and healing received for 15 seconds. While Selene is summoned, this action becomes Retaliation, decreasing damage taken by 5% and inflicting a 10% physical damage down or a 10% magical damage down on enemies that attack this target respective to the damage received. The buff effect lasts 15 seconds, and enemies are affected by the damage reduction for 10 seconds.
Both Protraction and Retaliation do not have cooldowns. They cost 20 Fey Gauge and generate 1 Aetherflow when used (more on that below). These are cast by the SCH, not the faerie. Both Protraction and Retaliation can be spread to nearby allies with Deployment Tactics.
Fey Brilliance: GCD - While Eos is summoned, this action becomes Indomitability, restoring HP with a potency of 400 to self and all nearby allies. While Selene is summoned, this action becomes Expedient, granting a 10 second sprint to self and all nearby allies.
Both Indomitability and Expedient also do not have cooldowns, cost 20 Fey Gauge, generate 1 Aetherflow, and are cast by the SCH.
Aetherflow and DPS Actions
I'll be using some temp potencies for the sake of communicating the concept, but these are easily changeable as needed for proper balance.
Aetherflow: This becomes a GCD action that generates 3 Aetherflow, restores 15% of your MP, and gives you 20 Fey Gauge. It has a 60 second cooldown on the GCD. I'll go over specific Aetherflow actions after the standard DPS actions.
Shock: GCD - Since Broil IV will be upgraded to some new-named ability in the next expansion, I'm referring to it as "Shock". Your standard DPS filler with a potency of 260 in this example. It returns to having a 2 second cast time.
Bio III: GCD - Replaces Biolysis, but it otherwise the same. 70 potency DoT for 30 seconds, instant cast. Each tic has a 3% chance of applying a Fey Mark.
Miasma III: GCD - Single target spell with a potency of 100 and applies a 60 potency DoT for 30 seconds. 2 second cast time. Each tic also has a 3% chance to apply a Fey Mark.
Ardor: GCD - Replaces Art of War and is now a ranged spell with a 2 seccond cast time, making it more like Gravity. It has a potency of 130 and always scales to be 50% of your Ruin/Broil/Shock casts. When cast, grants a 5% critical hit rate to the SCH for 45 seconds. Potency is doubled against targets with a Fey Mark, and consumes the Fey Mark.
Pain: GCD - Replaces Ruin II. It has a potency of 260 and always scales to be equal to Ruin/Broil/Shock. It is instant cast with an MP cost of 1000, making it your weave tool at a cost. If cast on a target with a Fey Mark, restores 15% of your MP and increases your Fey Gauge by 10, refunding and restoring its cost and granting more potential healing/support and consuming the mark.
Shadowflare: GCD - Returns with a 60 second cooldown. Deals 100 potency as a DoT to all enemies in the field effect over 15 seconds.
Scourge: OGCD - Deals damage with a potency of 130 to 1 enemy. Instant Cast. potency scales to always be the half your Ruin/Broil/Shock. Applies a 60 potency DoT that lasts 30 seconds. Each tic of Scourge's DoT also has a 3% chance to apply a Fey Mark to the target. Costs 1 Aetherflow and has a 15 second cooldown.
Meltdown: OGCD - Deals damage with a potency of 260 with 50% falloff damage to all enemies in a straight line before you. Potency scales to always be the same as your Ruin/Broil/Shock. Costs 1 Aetherflow and has a 15 second cooldown.
Bane: OGCD - Spreads your Bio, Miasma, and Scourge DoTs to nearby enemies for the full duration of each DoT. Potency of spread DoTs is reduced by 60%. Also inflicts Toad on all enemies in range for 6 seconds. Costs 1 Aetherflow and has a 15 second cooldown.
Summary
Not all SCH actions are listed here but that doesn't mean things unmentioned would not or could not still exist in this concept, I'm just not entirely sure how I'd handle those. Otherwise, the main takeaways are the identities of Eos being the burst healing pet and Selene being the utility pet as well as the revamping of the Fey Gauge as a healing/utility resource and Aetherflow as a DPS/DPS refund resource.
What I'm most interested in hearing would be thoughts on the concept of Fey Mark as a way to more actively engage with your rotation, and what adjustments might improve this concept. Do you think this works?
EDIT: A quick thing to note is this is still a work in progress idea I've been ruminating on, and I want to expand on it more. I have the DoTs all at 30 seconds for now and am also curious about making them all different, but also want to gauge how it feels with everything else first, if that feels like enough for others or if the staggered DoT timers would be better and not too much for the idea.
SCH as a poison-themed healer
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03-05-2023, 01:53 PMty_taurusSCH as a poison-themed healer
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03-05-2023, 09:44 PMSebazy
I like it a lot, it reminds me a little of my concept with less of a focus on pet positioning but a much more fleshed out downtime kit. Good work!
Some thoughts:
I think it's worth clarifying the situation with Aetherflow out of combat or at the start of a duty? I'm still convinced that blocking Aetherflow out of combat was a spiteful change that could have been made more reasonable if the SCH zoned/reset with full Aetherflow charges to compensate for it. Where do you think this sits with your concept?
On multiple dots, I'm of the mindset that SE deliberately trimmed everyone's dots down and moved away from dot centric classes to ease server load and make it harder to hit debuff limits in certain situations, so whilst I do like the thought of multiple dots again (Especially with offset durations) I don't think it's something that's likely to happen at this point. As an alternative, what about granting Bio increased potency when cast on a target that is fey marked instead of bringing back Miasma? Scourge's additional resource usage and duration difference is already a plenty decent improvement I think?
I'd expand on the above by having a thundercloud style effect on Bio's Fey Mark application chance so that when it procs, it leaves a short duration (Say 6 seconds?) debuff on the target that does additional damage if you refresh your dot on that target in that window. That alone will stop your dots always being refreshed at a content 30 second cadence, introducing some variance at all levels of play which is only a good thing if you ask me.
Ardor and Pain are good stuff. Same with Scourge and Meltdown (Especially if the range is fairly short). Bane's return is something I'll always be onside with although I'm not really sure about Toad?
Instead I wonder if it'd be more interesting to make Bane spread Fey Marks as well, then switch to having 2 AoEs, one having Ardor's bonuses and the other being regular filler. With Fey Mark's charges and short cooldown, you're like to be able to use Ardor 3 times in a trash pull. Shortening the crit buff to say 12-15 seconds would reward savvy spacing of Marks as well with a pretty tangible benefit.
Overall though, great work, it's a neat concept and has some real potential IMO. -
03-05-2023, 10:21 PMConnor
This seems like a whole lot of redesigning to make Scholar fit into the ‘poison Mage’ hole.
Why not suggest a new healer class at this point? Doesn’t it make more sense for a new healer to be specifically designed around such a playstyle than to take an existing healer and change/remove almost everything in it’s toolkit until it looks the way you want it to? -
03-05-2023, 10:26 PMSebazyIt's more akin to taking it back to it's roots no? SE certainly didn't rebrand it as a new job when they murdered it with 4.0's release and frankly, for better or worse stuff needs to be changed and revamped from time to time to stop things from stagnating like they arguable have already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
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03-05-2023, 10:54 PMConnorIf it’s roots are ‘Old Summoner’ then sure I guess?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
The thing is, if SE really wanted to reinforce the ‘poison’ theme of the job (which, to be pedantic, isn’t even literal poison lol), wouldn’t they have already done that?
Also, I think saying ‘they’ve already reworked it from the group up’ is a little disingenuous. Seems to me they took the Arcanist toolkit, slapped some healing spells on it to get a second healer out for release, then realized after the fact that they’d inadvertently made some kind of damage dealing healer hybrid. Basically, to SE, Scholar is defined by ‘shield, a fairy and more ability heals than any job will ever need’. It was never defined by its ability to deal damage; or at least it wasn’t supposed to be. Every expansion since then has been them desperately trying to do damage control to make Scholar what it was intended to be (I.e removing the excess Arcanist skills).
Before every expansion release there are always posts begging for Scholar to become old Summoner. Give it Tri-Disaster, give it Fester and Bane, give it a dps fairy, more DoTs. It still hasn’t happened. Personally I don’t imagine they’d do a full U-Turn away from what they have planned for it currently.
Scholar is like Bard in that if you don’t like the current identity basically you’re out of luck. Regardless of whether you were perfectly happy with a previous iteration . I don’t mean to sound harsh or that the suggestions are bad in and of themselves, but at the same time I feel like we need to start tempering expectations. Scholar is as likely to go back to being a DoT fiend as Bard is to go back to singing during battle (i.e the prospects are not good lol) or casting arrow strikes -
03-05-2023, 11:08 PMSebazyIt really isn't though, compare footage of a 3.5 SCH vs 4.0 in a dungeon. The gameplay is completely different. It might not have intended to have been a rework, but it absolutely played like one at all levels of play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
Dismissing a well written post because you don't think it's realistic also defeats the point of making these sorts of suggestions at all. I certainly didn't expect SE to implement my ideas when I wrote them, I just had an idea, thought it was neat and decided to dunk it down on a discussion forum. I'd much rather chew over stuff like this than pondering if the next primal is going to raidwide 10 or 15 seconds into the fight ;)
Sticking to purely 'realistic' suggestions for healers is going to be dull as ditchwater at this point. -
03-06-2023, 03:27 AMty_taurusOnce upon a time, SCH had 7 DoTs including cross-class actions: Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II (AoE only), Shadowflare, Aero, and Thunder. It's a job that stems from ACN, a class that originally was something of a poison mage. And it currently has a very lukewarm identity that is stepped on by both WHM and SGE currently in different ways, so what exactly are we losing? A healer with an identity crisis that's playstyle revolves around taking a nap during non-savage content because your faerie does all your healing for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
Additionally, jobs have been reworked in the past. Saying that it's impossible for a job to be reworked is silly because it has happened many times and will continue to happen (whether we like it or not). It's also not impossible that they may back petal toward old SCH's identity either because they've also back petaled before on specifically HW's bow mage. They reworked the physical ranged role to be casters in HW, most people hated that, and they took that away. I'm not saying that this concept as I have written it is specifically a guarantee or anything, but it's a concept that follows the rules of FFXIV's job design.
While my faith in seeing a change of this magnitude for the healers is slim, there is way more scrutiny regarding job design as a whole as of EW than we have ever seen before, and I'm inclined to believe there will be some amount of reevaluation going into 7.0 because of that criticism. I do believe this will affect the healers as well, I just can't say exactly how.
Thank you for the feedback. Having full Aetherflow for the start of the duty does make sense, and that's probably a good addition. I'm trying to picture the opener with the build as-is, and it's a bit detailed, but I think that' a good thing. Personally, on the topic of multiple DoTs, I see that reasoning. I think there needs to be more solutions regarding the buff/debuff limit, but I think the game deserves a dedicated DoT job in some capacity and finding ways to try and allow that to work is more ideal than saying it can't exist. Regardless of where SE stands on the same issue. One way I can think of a solution while still having Bio, Miasma, and Scourge in this concept is to redesign how the DoT works a little. Instead of each spell applying a different DoT... what if we do something like this. Bio and Miasma apply 1 stack of Virus each that has no duration; only 1 stack can be applied by each spell. When used on a target with Virus, Scourge increases the stack count by 1 and turns it into a DoT of 50 potency per stack for 30 seconds. This condenses all 3 DoTs into 1 debuff. It makes the application more rigid since you need Scourge to trigger the effect, but it would address that problem. What do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
As for Toad, it's really there more for Flavor and wouldn't work on anything that wasn't trash mobs, but could be really great for SCH in deep dungeons. It doesn't work on bosses of course, and has more limited application than WHM's stun, but I would like to see each healer have a different flavor of a more fun disabling debuff like Stun that are applied in different ways. By attaching it to something that has a consistently valuable effect elsewhere, it doesn't create a Repose like situation where the button has no purpose 99% of the time.
I like making Fey Marks stack. It also prevents any situations where two DoTs trigger it at the same time causes 1 to go unused, and shortening the crit buff could also make the job more engaging consistently since there are no varied DoT timers, especially with the debuff suggestion above. If needed, you could also give it the Storm's Eye treatment and have the crit buff extendable to a certain point. I'm not sure if that would be necessary or not, but it would make Ardor usage more flexible. That said, I don't think we need a filler AoE button separate from Ardor. I know it makes AoE scenarios slightly less engaging than single target, but I'm really not a fan of buttons that are designed exclusively for AoE because it just makes them dead buttons in single target, which is a significantly more prominent and important format in this game. It was more about trying to give a reason for the AoE button to exist in single target environments. -
03-06-2023, 05:48 AMNizziI mean, if we go off of PvP, which most people seem to agree on how PvP does the job fantasies better than PvE, that's literally what they've made Scholar by having it be the only job with an AoE DoT and its entire offensive gameplay loop feeding into debuffing and DoTting enemies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
Quote:
Also, I think saying ‘they’ve already reworked it from the group up’ is a little disingenuous. Seems to me they took the Arcanist toolkit, slapped some healing spells on it to get a second healer out for release, then realized after the fact that they’d inadvertently made some kind of damage dealing healer hybrid. Basically, to SE, Scholar is defined by ‘shield, a fairy and more ability heals than any job will ever need’. It was never defined by its ability to deal damage; or at least it wasn’t supposed to be. Every expansion since then has been them desperately trying to do damage control to make Scholar what it was intended to be (I.e removing the excess Arcanist skills).
I'm fairly confident it's the other way around and I believe there's a misconception from a lot of people in this community that Scholar wasn't planned or that it was the one that was tacked on, rather than Summoner. Old Arcanist is way closer to what Scholar was in FFXI than what Summoner was in any Final Fantasy game. Scholar used books in attack animations, had a White and Black Grimoire for healing/offensive based spells, Aetherflow is basically discount Wal-Mart brand Stratagems, FFXI Scholar's offensive spells were weather based DoTs called Helixes, this one is kind of a stretch but Energy Drain is combining two spells Scholar could use in FFXI, Aspir (steals an enemy's HP) and Drain (steals an enemy's MP) and FFXI Scholar had a 'hybrid' healer/dps style with how your White/Black grimoires worked. Why else would Arcanist use books, Scholar's staple, if they had intended for it to be for Summoner first, a job that traditionally doesn't use books?
Everything stacks up that Arcanist was designed around Scholar first and then Summoner was slapped onto it, not the other way around. I really don't think anything about Scholar was "inadvertently" created or that SCH was 'never supposed to be defined by its ability to deal damage', I believe that was the plan until they started to realize how broken of a job it was when it could outdamage the other healers and outheal them as well. PVE healer job changes have always been about fitting things into a balance and meta, not about enforcing how SE sees a job or how they define it. There's a reason all healers have the exact same DPS rotational loop, and it's not because of "job identity" as being defined by SE.
No offense, I don't mean this to sound harsh either but... who cares what SE wants? What is the point of saying this? If people are unhappy with the current direction of jobs they should absolutely continue to tell Square Enix that they're unhappy with it. "Tempering expectations" just leads to SE hearing that what they're doing is great and nobody has a problem with it. It took people 8 years of complaining to finally get a "Summoner with summons that isn't a DoT mage" and regardless of how braindead the job is, people in general seem to be happy that the job fantasy fits what they've been asking for. It's better for SE to see a bunch of reasons why people aren't happy with a job rather than just complaining about minor stuff within SE's defined boundaries. It's a game we pay for, after all.Quote:
Scholar is like Bard in that if you don’t like the current identity basically you’re out of luck. Regardless of whether you were perfectly happy with a previous iteration . I don’t mean to sound harsh or that the suggestions are bad in and of themselves, but at the same time I feel like we need to start tempering expectations. Scholar is as likely to go back to being a DoT fiend as Bard is to go back to singing during battle (i.e the prospects are not good lol) or casting arrow strikes
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03-06-2023, 07:43 AMForsakenRoe
Cool and good
Just wondering, would you be able to go Miasma, Bio (weave Scourge), Miasma reapply, Bio reapply (weave Bane) and spread fully empowered Scourge, Miasma and Bio to all enemies because that sounds great -
03-06-2023, 09:09 PMRilifane
How about something that shortens the duration of a dot by 1 tick per cast but deals additional potency? Could also work with a cooldown if you want to trim down the amount of dots although I'd personally like for SCH to work more with dots again.
After playing Disc in WoW for a while I found this a pretty interesting solution to rigid rotations, dots (or generic potency on a cooldown skills) having no interaction and the problem of doing less the better you get. It's basically a mechanic that scales the level of engagement to your current level of gameplay. The better you get as in the less GCD heals you use, the more often you'll have to refresh your dot - you do a different kind of "more" the better you eget. The beginner healer will have to worry less about frequent dot refreshing (or cooldown use) since they don't spam the dot/ cooldown reduction skill as much.
Another benefit is that it's more dynamic. A single SC ress will alter your GCD mapping from then on, making fights less predictable. With a 30s dot, it doesn't matter if you SC ress at the 2nd or 5th GCD after refreshing it. Nothing changes, you still refresh your dot at the exact same time. But with damage spells reducing dot duration for additional potency, an emergency GCD heal or a ress will mean fights don't play the same in terms of dps GCD mapping and instead can greatly vary depending on how many non-dps GCDs you used and when.
And, as I said, this could of course work with a cooldown as well.
I suspect not everyone will like it as some people have gotten used to every pull playing out exactly the same in terms of GCD mapping and treat everything that deviates from their ideal mapping and perfect alignment as a nuisance but I think it would overall be better if we get away from this obsession of always having perfectly predictable and gameplay with naturally aligned skills and everything that throws a wench into our plan is a nuisance, punishment etc.
Not directed at your ideas, ty, just a general observation.
Sometimes it feels like people have forgotten how things can be and are wearing blinkers because FFXIV sledgehammered into their minds that using a different GCD than they planned is punishment and things have to be scripted and predictable. -
03-07-2023, 04:11 AMty_taurusHmm... I'm not sure I follow what you're picturing with reapplying Miasma and Bio. Was this based on the suggestion of compiling the debuffs as Virus? So you'd apply your 3 stacks, spread those stacks, and then set up the next set for the next 30 second window?Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
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03-07-2023, 06:07 AMForsakenRoeThis seems like an idea with good potential, and we know SE can manipulate buff/debuff timers because of the 24man, what 'looks' to be a 30s duration dot would actually be closer to say, 18s with full damage uptime. In a sense, it reminds me of Quickened AetherflowQuote:
Originally Posted by Rilifane
So you had the idea as like, you use Scourge and it 'eats' the Miasma and Bio to power up, essentially folding those effects into Scourge's DOT so as to avoid the debuff cap. But I didn't notice any mention that Scourge would prevent application of Miasma or Bio, so you'd be able to apply them, empower Scourge, reapply them, and Bane all three for big AOE DOT melt. If the 'Virus' debuff is meant to limit the reapplication, so that you can't apply a new Miasma or Bio until the Scourge falls off, I'm not sure I see the point in having Scourge at all, since it's function (combine dots to avoid debuff cap) is countered by it existing (taking the place of Miasma on the debuff limit), and Virus being there to prevent reapplying stuff (taking Bio's place), so it'd be the same number of debuffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Or is Miasma, Bio, Scourge three different DOTs, and when they're all present on the boss they automatically fold into the combined DOT 'Virus'? That could work slightly better, but then the question is, how does the game calculate the time left on Virus when it is generated? If Miasma has 20s left, Bio has 10s, and Scourge has 17s, does it average the times out, go with the lowest, go with the highest? And how would it work with refreshing it, would you have to wait until it fully falls off, or would reapplying each DOT effect the timer in some way?
Having Scourge as above though, an Aetherflow spender that 'fast-forwards' ticks of the stacked DOTs, might be a solution to look into. Could make it a more thematic replacement for Energy Drain, though I'd have preferred to see it on old-AST (back when it still had some Time Mage aspects), but we work with what we've got
Last thought before I go to the shop, probably an idea for a 'Chemist' more than anything, but what if the 'mixing' of the DOTs was done as part of the job gauge, and the 'Virus', ie the combined final DOT, is one application you do after you've done the mixing on your side? Hang on, it's time to make a crappy paint diagram (emphasis on crappy)
Alter number of beakers/max timers as necessary for design (I put it as 3, all with 30s durations because SE is allergic to the idea of non-conforming durations). Yeh it's a bit of a side tangent, and maybe not even wholly relevant, but I think the basic premise is similar: If your goal is to use multiple effects, to make 'one big effect' that is greater/equal to the sum of it's parts, all in order to dodge the debuff cap... Why not have that 'combining' be done playerside, and utilize the job gauge for it? God knows SCH doesn't exactly get use out of it's gauge atm -
03-07-2023, 06:50 AMty_taurusThe way I was thinking about it in that post was more like, Bio, Miasma, and Scourge would all have an additional effect that would be worked like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
Applies 1 stack of Virus; only 1 stack of Virus can be applied by Bio III/Miasma III/Scourge (depending on the action used). In other words, this is 1 debuff with a I, II, or III on the icon like with Aetherflow. Virus does not do any damage and does not have a duration, or perhaps it has a 10/15 second duration so that there's more of a timing aspect to applying and triggering your DoT. Additionally, Scourge would have the added effect of consuming Virus and replacing it with a DoT that deals 50 potency per Virus stack over 3 seconds, and also has chance that each tic triggers a Fey Mark that is a 3% chance per stack.
I was also thinking that maybe Scourge doesn't activate this, but Bane does, giving Bane a purpose in single target as it's your DoT detonator.
Basically, it functions a lot like what you're saying, just the semantics are a little different. You could recast Miasma and Bio after activating the DoT, but they wouldn't be doing more damage until you activate it again. This means you'd only ever have 2 DoT-related debuffs at a time. -
03-07-2023, 01:03 PMelioaiko
I would like a poison mage so this appeals to me. SCH never really had super solid indentity from other parts of the series aside from 11.
I've always gotten military doctor/tactitian vibes from SCH as a whole.
It would feel different from the other healers at once. Rotating dots with a fester like payoff.
Though I feel like the devs are just gonna keep SCH the same because they just don't have the creavitity to do anything more. -
04-04-2023, 12:05 PMdeston07
Square will not admit it, but they are removing Damage over time to reduce server load,
Along with the time it takes to balance dot based damage.
They are simplifying healers to reduce development and balance time/cost.
Every MMO does it over time, FF sadly is no different. -
04-04-2023, 12:28 PMRein_eon_Osborne
Please replace SE’s healer designer lmao.
Half jest… just half.. *cough*
Your Dissipation is so much better well thought than what I could ever hope to think + I’m loving that you’re incorporating fae swapping with it. Can’t wait to see the update. -
04-04-2023, 12:30 PMJaminiQuote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
This is uh...really not true.
At 80+ content the faerie does almost no healing. It's more likely that you are just paired with an over-tuned warrior who is self-healing to victory.
I'd still love to see more dots, hots, and shields to track over the current design! Don't get me wrong. But being hyperbolic in replies doesn't help your case. -
04-05-2023, 02:24 AMSilver-StriderIt's not totally hyperbolic though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamini
Your most used Healing abilities on SCH are the Fairy abilities since you minimize the usage of Aetherflow as much as possible. Between Whispering Dawn, Fey Blessing, Seraph/Consolation and Aetherpact, the Fairy does do most of the healing in most casual content. That isn't to say you aren't throwing out Recitation boosted Excogs and Indoms prn but it's not totally outside the realm of possibility that the fairy can do it all solo, assuming the Tank isn't paper mache. -
04-06-2023, 04:07 PMJaminiMinizing Aetherflow use is very much a high-end raiding tactic. Mostly for parsing. Yes, you can lean on your coheal or tank's ability... but ultimately it does show when you do! Especially to your coheal!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver-Strider
For example: https://www.fflogs.com/reports/qrk42...1&type=healing
Overall it's a great parse. I won't shake a stick at that one bit. Especially since you tend to lean into the regen healing. However the healing parse definitely makes it look like the WHM was taking a bit more of the heavy lifting.
The bad? Overheal. Lots of it. Faerie abilities are notorious for overhealing (30-40% isn't uncommon). Almost all of your whispering dawn was wasted, half of your fae blessings, 80% of Seraphic veil... A lot of your healing just went into thin air.
You also didn't really take advantage of a prepull or downtime deployed shield, which tends to put a lot more stress on the party.
Compare: https://www.fflogs.com/reports/vwZ2P...ing&source=108
Obviously, your parse is higher than mine. (Again, 74% is awesome. I will never detract from that!) I can fairly confidently say that you're probably a fair bit cleaner at keeping your GCDs rolling and keeping your dot on point. Your party also was a fair bit more skilled which certainly helped (I am jealous of your kill time!)
But you will notice that with two deployed crit adloqouim, my faerie heals immediately get beaten out heavily by Galvanized? With almost none of the shield wasted due to timing them for big raidwide hits? I used indom about twice as often as well. Frankly rarely do I bother with recitation on it anymore. Recitation excog or recitation crit shields I find a LOT more reliable, with indom being more of "Raidwide just hit, immediate response." sort of thing.
You also did not once cast Sacred soil, which is fairly morbid considering just how powerful that is.
Now what exactly am I getting at, comparing two parses like this? Scroll over to the damage portion of both parses.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/vwZ2P...one&source=108
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/qrk42...-done&source=5
(cont) -
04-06-2023, 04:08 PMJamini
(cont)
You had roughly 3.6 EDs/min compared to my 2 EDs/min. This resulted in a gain of about 50aDPS on your EDs over mine.
The amount of damage you gained from using twice as much Aetherflow on ED was equivalent to.... (50/3600 and 50/2369...) 1% better GCD uptime or (50/812 and 50/931) 5-6% better uptime on your dot! Both of which was absolutely possible for both of us in either parse! (And I cannot overstate.... you did fantastic and should be proud of that!)
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TL:DR - Minimizing Energy Drain is a minuscule increase in DPS. Don't be afraid to hit Aetherflow heals, and don't put undue stress on your cohealer just to pump out more 100 potency drains. We get so, so much more mileage out of using heals as-needed or in preparation for hits and only dumping ED to avoid overcap and in burst windows (where they actually can do a fair bit of damage). All but the very top 5% of all players can gain a lot more out of mastering and practicing the basics (Rolling GCDs, keeping dots up, buffs up, and aligning everything in burst windows) than focusing on super high-end raiding optimization.
Also if you ever feel up for trying something new. Try going into casual content as SCH where you deploy a crit shield before every pull. (Not during, before. I normally use swiftcast to do it on the move). It's actually funny how long Galvanized can last on a good tank before your Faerie even is permitted to cast embrace...all without losing a single AoW, Biolysis, Ruin, or Broil cast. -
04-06-2023, 11:21 PMSilver-StriderTbph, I wasn't even aware someone had parsed me lol. I know my SCH gameplay isn't perfect and I will never admit to being a top tier SCH either. IIRC during this fight, the WHM was a bit sporadic in their healing, overriding some of my own heals with theirs, such as using Rapture when Whispering Dawn was active or would already have Asylum up that I didn't feel a Soil was necessary. It's not so much that I was trying to optimize my Aetherflow usage in the fight but rather trying to play around the WHM so that we wouldn't overheal (which still failed horribly lol). Lack of communication and coordination was the culprit more than anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamini
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04-07-2023, 04:00 AMJaminiSuch as it is! Either way my point remains that Aetherflow is a healing resource first, DPS distant second. While it's great to optimize for damage (and we should!) saying SCH should rely too heavily on the faerie is really doing the job a disservice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver-Strider
SCH has fantastic throughput when played well. (See, for example, the Rubicante solo SCH clear) A lot of people just...want the bare minimum or less of the job. Which is a shame really.
Also, even doing on-content clears of savage puts you in something like the top 20% of all players in a job. This game has A LOT of players, and the vast majority don't raid.
Re: Asylum and Soil, those two actually pair really well. Asylum is a 10% healing up, Soil is a 10% mitigation so not only is there no HPS lost... but Asylum actually boosts soil's regen if people are damaged during at least part of its duration. It's not like stacking Kera or Collective Unconsiousness where you lose mit effectiveness from the stack. Though if it's being used at a poortime then the healing may get wasted to overheal. -
04-07-2023, 06:01 AMSebazyGod yes, Soil and Asylum did a ton of heavy lifting especially throughout Eden. They synergise almost too well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamini
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04-09-2023, 08:32 PMdeston07This is the reason I strongly dislike Scholar right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamini
I main Sage but when my co-healer is missing we PF normally leading to me WHM.
Almost all of the Scholars I have met recently just burn Aetherflow on ED's never using soil.
I loved Scholar in Shadow bringers was my main then, I very much dislike it now.