Asylum/Sacre Soil is still too small

I was doing a few level 90 raids the other day and I noticed that the healer bubble barely even covers the entirety of the boss hitbox. It’s hard to cover the entire party using the bubble when boss hitboxes are so big that players are so spread out. This wasn’t much of a problem when it was only one or two bosses, but now that every boss has a large hitbox 10 yalms is too small to be beneficial. The bubbles should at least be 15 yalms in radius to better cover the party and be an ability that is worth using more.

I think it should be at least as large as any boss arena. No half measures

Don't make it even more brain dead. Earthly Star is bad enough.

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Originally Posted by GrayLowell

I think it should be at least as large as any boss arena. No half measures

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The entire arena size might be a bit too much. At that point it could just be a bubbless buff.

Instead of blindly placing the bubble at the boss centre, focus it to where its needed. Its by design that players are spread out, and this has been the case in allmost all raids. All bubbles face a similar issue, but as they are well visible, they also attract players that need healing anyway. So if coverage on them is missing, either thats fine as they are at full health anyway, or they will move toward it (and if they dont, and die, thats their fault, not yours).

This was already the situation in most of the lvl 60 alliance raids, and plenty of the lvl 60 raids. And by the time you are level 90, you can at least expect players to be better at adapting. Extra lazyness on a class that can already be very lazy isnt needed (you can even decide to not bother about dpsing in a raid and the boss still dies easily).

Please no, thank you.

Rescue Tell your party to step into the bubble, even if it means stepping inside bosses' hitboxes (except death zones, in which case: plan to use something else instead of banging head on the wall to keep using Sacred Soil).

I'm already hating that I'm no longer rewarded for recognizing where the boss will jump to ala dropping AST's ShB Earthly Star on proper location. I'm 100% sure I will not like it either if they extent the same treatment to SCH's Soil. Also, make them 'bubble-less'? SGE has that in form of Kerachole.

Personally I kinda like having to account for other players when placing Sacred Soil. Having to find a placement that covers as many allies as possible with the limited space is enjoyable to me, so it’d be sad to see them inflate the radius so you can just set and forget without thinking

Let's attach an AoE rescue to Asylum/Sacred Soil. Everyone will love that. /s

The buff to Earthly Star's radius was absolutely unnecessary and excessive that I would hate to see bubbles get similar treatment. We already have that with SGE so why try and make it any more foolproof.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I was doing a few level 90 raids the other day and I noticed that the healer bubble barely even covers the entirety of the boss hitbox. It’s hard to cover the entire party using the bubble when boss hitboxes are so big that players are so spread out. This wasn’t much of a problem when it was only one or two bosses, but now that every boss has a large hitbox 10 yalms is too small to be beneficial. The bubbles should at least be 15 yalms in radius to better cover the party and be an ability that is worth using more.

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You're right in analyzing the problem. There are two solutions:

1) Make Asylum/Sacred Soil larger.

2) Make boss hitboxes smaller.

I think we need the second one - it's ridiculous that boss hitboxes this entire expansion have been just a hair short of "arena" in size - but if we aren't going to do that, then making the radii larger for ground effects would be the right call.

It's not "braindead", it's "boss hitboxes used to be small enough that the abilities worked correctly in that environment, and the large boss hitboxes break that". It wasn't braindead to center Asylum on the boss in E4S, why is it braindead to do it in P4S? People are REALLY overusing the word "braindead" these days.

I have it in my head that SE acknowledged that they appreciate some of the issues and balance issues super large boss hitboxes have caused as of late?

Perhaps that's something we'll see addressed with 7.0's raids.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

You're right in analyzing the problem. There are two solutions:

1) Make Asylum/Sacred Soil larger.

2) Make boss hitboxes smaller.

I think we need the second one - it's ridiculous that boss hitboxes this entire expansion have been just a hair short of "arena" in size - but if we aren't going to do that, then making the radii larger for ground effects would be the right call.

It's not "braindead", it's "boss hitboxes used to be small enough that the abilities worked correctly in that environment, and the large boss hitboxes break that". It wasn't braindead to center Asylum on the boss in E4S, why is it braindead to do it in P4S? People are REALLY overusing the word "braindead" these days.

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Please tell me what part of your brain you need to use when placing Earthly Star. Yep, braindead.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Please tell me what part of your brain you need to use when placing Earthly Star. Yep, braindead.

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You need the part that keeps you alive, just so you can suffer these threads.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Please tell me what part of your brain you need to use when placing Earthly Star. Yep, braindead.

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I would have said 'well you have to time it right', but it's got damage attached, so 'right' is 'every 60s so it lands in raidbuffs'. Crazy

You may just have to comunicate more with your tanks

I usually step halfway into the hitbox when tanking P5 P6 and P8p1 so the SCH can place sacred soil more towards the party side, and still catch the regen/mit as a tank

On normal mode content its a non-issue, since you dont need to mit on the tank for them to survive raidwides. And in endgame, as I said, you could just communicate with them

If they answer with "I have effects off", that already speaks a lot about a bad tank. Limited effects lets you see bubbles and floor skills only, like SMN's garuda swirl, NIN Doton, WHM Bell, AST Earthy star, etc. And those are important information for any tank when it comes to positioning the boss or themselves

If anything, I hope they make bubble-type effects show even while on "effects off", so people can stop trying to excuse themselves for not seeing them

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I would have said 'well you have to time it right', but it's got damage attached, so 'right' is 'every 60s so it lands in raidbuffs'. Crazy

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Yeah. I was more talking about the placement itself. But yeh. Haha

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I have it in my head that SE acknowledged that they appreciate some of the issues and balance issues super large boss hitboxes have caused as of late?

Perhaps that's something we'll see addressed with 7.0's raids.

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Oh we absolutely will see it adressed, they'll make all aoe heals cover a 30 yalms like they did with Earthly Star and keep hitboxes as they are, can't have people needing to use their brain after all.

……..they’ll just make bosses’ hit ox smaller again. I’ve liked the yalm range of sacred soil as it is now. The other solution I’ve made just in case that happens….macros. On me, my fairy, or a party member(barely use it for sacred). Making it even bigger just going to become……lame, un-interested in the ability. Just plop in the middle and……wow, this is fun alright…if can sense the sarcasm. That’s how I view Earthly Star. Became boring since you can plop it in the middle and forget it instead of pre-plan the thing and place it for the party during a mechanic. Asylum and Sacred are the only 2 that can do it. The bigger it is, the more boring it becomes.

Only thing I'd really want for Soil is for it to apply the buff as soon as you enter it. As it stands, if you drop it on someone, they get the buff instantly (because ground aoes tick once upon placement, then on the server ticks until they expire), but if they're outside the soil, and move into it even one frame after the snapshot for that 'instant tick', they don't get the buff until the next server tick, which is potentially 2.5 seconds away

I like the current size of Asylum and Soil but I definitely agree the boss hit boxes are way too large. A lot of people like to play at max melee range to allow themselves more ease to dodge aoes radiating from the boss. If a tank and a melee are both at max range and Sacred Soil is is dropped in the bosses hitbox they will miss the effect entirely.

Personally, I don't like any of the bubble effects. We erect these awe inspiring magical fortresses in the middle of battle but the damage reduction is a measly 10%. Even with regens attached it doesn't feel like they live up to the visual representation. When a person standing outside of a bubble effects in casual content can't tell they took more damage than everyone else it says a lot. I think the fundamental use of the bubbles needs to be changed.

Collective Unconscious needs to draw on the time magic theme from Astro. It can retain the 10% mitigation and Regen while being channeled but all damage taken by party members within the effect needs to be delayed and compiled into a Damage over Time effect that last 40 seconds and only gets applied after Unconscious is dropped. This is a way to convert high burst damage into a more manageable bleed giving people time to mitigate and regroup. Extend the cooldown to make it appropriate for something so impactful but it should be a shining highlight of Astro gameplay and not just one of too many 60 second cooldowns.

WHM Asylum should be party wide Holmgang keeping everyone in the effect from dropping below 1 HP. Cut the duration from 20 seconds to 10 and raise the recast time to 5 minutes or more. Let it be a unique answer to tank busters and crazy burst damage. Ya know, a true Asylum. It should be something you're willing to press Sprint to enter because it will definitely save your life. The Regen and healing increase could be passed to Plenary Indulgence instead giving them a strong tool every 60 seconds.

Sacred Soil definitely needs to have more interplay with shielding. I would keep the 10% mitigation but add a 150 potency shield applied to all party members who enter the effect. To make things fun the shield would be applied each time you re-enter allowing people to dance at the edge for more mitigation. In addition I would like to see it increase crit chance on healing actions by at least 30%.

These are the kind of bubble actions I would have fun with. Nothing like being able to squeeze survival out with clever healer play.