Add Coffers to Alliance Raids

As it says, the Savage raids in this game use the coffer system to make sure that you aren't wasting a run by dropping a piece of gear that no one can wear. This seems to be well recieved and I think it should be extended to Alliance Raids. It's painful to have to run the raids for 5-6 times in a row just to get the chance to roll against other people for a drop that you can wear. Switch these drops to coffers or add some type of pity system so that you don't have to spend hours running the content just to get a drop you can wear due to sheer bad luck.

Honestly I'd also love to have coffers in Alliance raids. I love ARs, but man I hate having to spam them.

no /10char

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

no /10char

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I'm curious, why would you oppose this?

I am against coffers.

With no distinction by role everyone will roll need on them. So when the coffer for chestpiece drops you likely have to roll against 4 to 7 other people.

This would not be too bad while the raid is current and has a weekly lockout, it will be really bad when the lockout is gone and everyone rolls on everything.

Coffers will solve nothing. You still have to run the raid multiple times to get your loot. You just exchange the RNG of wrong loot against more RNG rolling against several people. And good luck getting the glamour from the Nier raids together then...

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Originally Posted by Tint

This would not be too bad while the raid is current and has a weekly lockout, it will be really bad when the lockout is gone and everyone rolls on everything.

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This already happens. Once the lockout is gone you're forced to run as the job you want gear for to reduce competition. People roll greed on gear for jobs they don't even have unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

This already happens. Once the lockout is gone you're forced to run as the job you want gear for to reduce competition. People roll greed on gear for jobs they don't even have unlocked.

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Is that a negative thing?

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Originally Posted by Tint

I am against coffers.

With no distinction by role everyone will roll need on them. So when the coffer for chestpiece drops you likely have to roll against 4 to 7 other people.

This would not be too bad while the raid is current and has a weekly lockout, it will be really bad when the lockout is gone and everyone rolls on everything.

Coffers will solve nothing. You still have to run the raid multiple times to get your loot. You just exchange the RNG of wrong loot against more RNG rolling against several people. And good luck getting the glamour from the Nier raids together then...

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What prompted this was me running Euphrosyne 5 times in a row without a single aiming piece dropping in the loot list. that's over 2 hours of running the same fights over and over for 0 drops. That's absurd and honestly pretty unacceptable for catch up casual gear in a game that's supposed to respect your time.
Coffers would absolutely solve this since I'd have to roll against other people yes, but there wouldn't be 6+ pieces of Maiming and Fending gear everyone hits pass on, every drop would be something I could potentially use if I were to win it.

I think this might be ok so long as the coffer doesn't include an entire set of gear. The only reason I can think of that they don't do this is to keep the incentive to run the older raids higher than zero. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but the game and content within does have a lifespan.

I honestly think this is one of FFXIV biggest Ls in terms of raiding progression. I get that theyre trying to keep the content relevant enough to warrant more people queuing but its a very annoying system.

There shouldnt be stupid rng built into getting gear, at the very least guarantee a personal gear drop for an item based on your current role at the end or drop some exchangeable token to purchase the needed piece upgrade.

no no op is right the game needs this asap.
We could add the caveat of no coffers for CURRENT content alliance raids but older raids? Absolutely.
For me frankly the only ARs worth rerunning for gear are the Nier raids due to the simple fact that the gear you're spending 30-odd minutes to get MAYBE 1 piece of is um FREAKING DYABLE! Unlike Ivalice raids. We dont need to rerun mhach ever because all those sets have been reused once or twice as dungeon and marketboard gear, anyone running mhach for gear drops is out of their gourd.
I'm hoping the make Ivalice dyable in 6.4 so I can get Orbonne healer robe in a color that isnt blugh dijon mustard or whatever hideous shade of yellow but no. We need coffers. We shouldnt have to unsynce yorha raids multiple times with only 9 or 10 people to get 1 drop.
Speaking I need to do that for Paradigm because I need the tank and maiming hats bc theyre both hats hrothgar can actually enjoy and use and with new hair unlocks they dont clip atrociously anymore as we are not locked to runars hair thank god.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I honestly think this is one of FFXIV biggest Ls in terms of raiding progression. I get that theyre trying to keep the content relevant enough to warrant more people queuing but its a very annoying system.

There shouldnt be stupid rng built into getting gear, at the very least guarantee a personal gear drop for an item based on your current role at the end or drop some exchangeable token to purchase the needed piece upgrade.

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I remember a thread saying we need AR coins ala tomestone upgrade drops. Thats a great compromise, do both or all three raids to get 1 gear piece with your coins every week, no need to force yourself into the same role every week for gear that isnt bis or even going to stay relevant by the next expac (you can just buy your 660 tomestone asap day 1 of 7.0 release with poetics no need to augment or even cap tomes every week) because the new expac dungeon gear for the first dungeon is 10 ilv worse than the tome or savage gear anyway.

I never did current Savage so I dunno how it works, does OP means coffers in place of drops, or coffers alongside current drops? I'd be completely against the former, due to people Need'ing/Greed'ing everything for easy company bucks, but 110% in favor of the latter, I like that I can run an AR with the role I want and massively bolster my chances of getting the glam piece I want so long as it drops, but full random drops would not be okay for me.

Gear progression in this game is utterly garbage and the coffer system is one of the reasons.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I honestly think this is one of FFXIV biggest Ls in terms of raiding progression. I get that theyre trying to keep the content relevant enough to warrant more people queuing but its a very annoying system.

There shouldnt be stupid rng built into getting gear, at the very least guarantee a personal gear drop for an item based on your current role at the end or drop some exchangeable token to purchase the needed piece upgrade.

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Yeah, this is why I suggested it, there was to my memory a similar issue with Savages back during previous expansions. You could have multiple weeks in a row where only tank chestpieces dropped, and your DPS were just out of luck till the game rolled a chestpiece they could wear.
The token system seems like it would make sense if they didn't want to go full coffers. We already get 1 token per run of the Alliance raids, if they added a vendor where you could turn in your token for a guaranteed piece of gear for those who don't want or need the upgrade materials, it would help smooth out the RNG.

maybe they should add something like books from savages. then you can exchange them to get the gear from the alliance raid. weekly stuff you know, but u only need to beat it twice (2 books) to be able to exchange them

i know there's the coin weekly thing, but thats only for twine and shine

I Agree whole heartedly..,

For one, if it's part of the weekly lockout, then you're likely to only have to do very few runs to get your Piece when the Content is "Current".

Whilst afterwards it'll be very rare for players to get multiples.
the biggest gripe with Coffers once implemented, and after their time as current content has passed. is that the Coffers would need to be not "Unique" for players to get the items they want or need.
As it would lessen the need for grind, and would annoy players needing to store immediately the single item coffer. thus saving time, or even space, depending how its implemented.

<like it is for many current content anyways, it's not about filling up queues, as they'll get filled regardless with willing players-that enjoy that specific instance, or got paid off by SE-. If the fact people recurringly always ask for a change to the AR Matchmaking to avoid CT raids says anything. Mentioning filling queues has no place or sound point.>

The thing with Gear that is quickly on par with Crafted gear, it shouldn't be unnecessarily difficult to obtain what you need.

<Instead of rolling for 1-5 Slot types by 7 Role Sections, against other potential Need/Greed/Mills. You're only rolling against 1-5 Slot types and N/G/M. Which if "Current" and with a lockout, Makes the competition even less for desired gear, as players wanting something specific will go for theirs immediately.
Even more so with the fact that a set number of items always drop each time. so instead of those limited numbers being eaten by unneeded gear, it's spent on a coffer that all may need, thus reducing competition.>

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Also as another user said, a Item trade in could work for AR Gear, similar to how Upgrade tokens work. but it would call for a rework, as the current Coins are meant for upgrades(if we were to add either more coins to drop, it'd mess with the balance a bit-despite the fact, is what a undeniable amount want, a adjustment to many parts of the loot system-) [Or after content is no longer current, Said coins can be traded in for "The item coffer" or specific gear, based on how its implemented. (though at that point, it's basically calling for the return of old coins. which would need more uses asides gear not all would need-materia perhaps, but clusters already cover that-)]

TLDR: one can spend a long time thinking how it would be implemented, and how to make it work after it's past is "current" content span. <specially in order to give a acceptable option for those against it for Good Reason, or Terrible Reason>

But this is yet another change a notable amount want, that doesn't necessarily harm the content<even more so with the fact that it all ends the same.>

edit:
Whilst the idea of upgrading the clusters one uses for Materia, the ones dropped by roulettes, adjusted to allow Gear Purchases of any AR Gear(while a good idea) <They are far to common, but a good thought to note>
So at that point more like the tomestone idea mentioned, a general Coin that trades in for a specific Set of AR Coin-50/60/70/80, eventually 90- which after expac, they themselves become the Everlasting Coin like Poetics are.

or you can do 1 coin= 1 coffer
so either choose between an upgrade or a lower ilevel piece

if everything annoying was removed and everything was just handed to the player, content would die pretty quicker than it already is.

My only suggestion would be to have only gear usable by the group drop. No drg/rpr? No maiming.

Not sure if it actually works this way, but I do know that I'm tired of getting two dancers in my groups. >:(

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if everything annoying was removed and everything was just handed to the player, content would die pretty quicker than it already is.

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Not sure if rng is something you want to advertise for longevity in an MMO, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Not sure if rng is something you want to advertise for longevity in an MMO, lol.

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Turn FF14 into a gacha game!

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I honestly think this is one of FFXIV biggest Ls in terms of raiding progression. I get that theyre trying to keep the content relevant enough to warrant more people queuing but its a very annoying system.

There shouldnt be stupid rng built into getting gear, at the very least guarantee a personal gear drop for an item based on your current role at the end or drop some exchangeable token to purchase the needed piece upgrade.

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Hard agree

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Originally Posted by Pratini

Gear progression in this game is utterly garbage and the coffer system is one of the reasons.

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How does the coffer system help make the progression in this game garbage? What are you comparing it to?

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if everything annoying was removed and everything was just handed to the player, content would die pretty quicker than it already is.

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In what way is a coffer system "just handing" it to the player? Especially considering coffers potentially make it harder to get gear?

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Originally Posted by Imora

My only suggestion would be to have only gear usable by the group drop. No drg/rpr? No maiming.

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In alliance raids you are nearly guaranteed to have at least 1 of those (5 dps players and 3 dps types makes the chances a lot higher). And they might already got the piece earlier. RNG can be disgusting on these things. But for the party only coffers, that would be a nice change to have as it still improves the usefullness for most pieces.

Coffers have the advantage that it takes away the excessive bad odds for specific gear pieces (which you generaly suffer most from when trying to complete a gear set). Even if the net chances are the same, giving the player the sense of more chances is prefered. If a piece after 100 drops didnt drop, you had no chance at all, and it feels like a complete waste of time. Yet if the coffer dropped 10x, even if you failed at obtaining it 10x, it at least gave you the feeling of having a chance.

But i would make the coffers only drop at the complete end of the alliance raid. As that way those earlier drops are more likely to be taken as at least that drop is then guaranteed, and has less people competing. If you want the complete set, it doesnt matter which piece you get anyway, so any of the 5 will do fine. In the 5th week it generaly will cause some spread in which remaining piece they have, giving better odds (while in week 1 you might have 6 people aiming for the chest piece, in week 5, the competition is mostly gone and it might be just 1 or 2 that were missing the same piece).

Making the loot drops into coffers would remove the layer of RNG of trying to get the gear for the right role to drop... But it would also increase the amount of people rolling for it... Which they could easily offset by increasing the amount of drops per boss.

Also, it would achieve something they attempted to do long ago as they disabled Need rolls for Alliance Raids so you could get the gear you want without needing to go in as that role... But with the randomized loot, it was absolutely terrible as when the gear you actually wanted finally dropped 15 runs in that week, you still had to win it with a greed roll.


As for older expansion's raids, bring back the coins as a completion reward and make the coffers purchasable with them rather than making the coins completely obsolete after the expansion.

The coffer system in duty finder content would be pretty brutal and you may very well find yourself running more than 5-6 runs for a piece (on average). However, I do agree they should add a vendor for ALL duty finder content like Normal/Extremes/Savages have where you get a currency that can trade in for items from that content. Alliance Raids would be a good start to that.

edit: Thinking about it...if they did add the vendor, coffer system should be better both during and after the weekly lockout, since you have a plan b in the event you dont get the roll after X amount of runs.

I don't think coffers is a great idea, but reinstating the coins for older ones and using those like totems/pages/bits & bobs from normal modes would be a much better way, imo.

Similarly, adding them to level cap dungeons to assist glam hunters, though I'd say that these should not be added until the next expansions.

Well it has to measure and drop out from the jobs in the group... it is kind of ridicoulous.. that 4 items wearable by DRG or Ninja drops... and those jobs is none existent in the group...

+1 from to this one, but keep the current system.

Loot is on a per full party basis. I had one with tank, two heals, two dancers and three summoners.

Youre not guaranteed to get one of each armor type. And I don't want coffers. Why the heck would you not roll, even if you have it already? Just need roll for alt job gear.

At least now if you want that alt job gear you need to play it.

Rng with a side of bad luck protection please. That's all I ask for when it comes to loot. You don't have to throw it at me, but if I feel like I'm not getting compensated I will stop doing that activity.

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Originally Posted by Imora

Loot is on a per full party basis. I had one with tank, two heals, two dancers and three summoners.

Youre not guaranteed to get one of each armor type. And I don't want coffers. Why the heck would you not roll, even if you have it already? Just need roll for alt job gear.

At least now if you want that alt job gear you need to play it.

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That's the thing though, it's basically a race to see when you get tired and decide to veer into the wall full-speed, in order to slow down and take the door out the instance immediately after taking loot you may not need.

if anything, Coffers can be stored for other classes so instead of having holes in your slots, you have guaranteed armor in nearly every slot.

I'm full DoL/H/Combat Capped. so unless I can be bothered to craft, I'll be needing gear for other jobs.

But if I were to be using mainly one class, or Gearing another for use in content. Relying on multiple runs to either get lucky, or just give up and take glamour I may not need/want/ever use. doesn't help anyone else who may need/want/use it more<whether it be "Current" Or old Content.>

Practically due to people having different amount of time they can spend on said content grinding for an item they could buy equivalent/craft from the MB. The majority will have less than 3/5 of one set, or 2/5 of multiple sets. With the Rest who are able to Grind or get lucky before facing the wall having a Full Set<that theyll actually use, or glamour>, and then few leftovers for other jobs.



You don't roll what you don't want. It's why there are always Nier Glamour runs on PF.
Cause the odds are always high, and not everyone wants and needs everything/all sets.
<Even more so when it's "Current" Content>

[The ones that wouldn't care so much are those already equipped with higher ilvl, or don't care for Glamour.]

Which is why people offered other options to speculate/think over.

Since it'll overall benefit all players, even if what they see or are used to, or need to oppose makes them feel otherwise.

i'm siding no because then everyone really do be rolling on everything and alliance don't have a pity system like Savage books.

I mean, if the goal is trying to get you to run the raids as much as possible, I really don’t understand why they wouldn’t give you a token that can be traded for raid gear in addition to possible drops. Something like the totems for ex fights.

Maybe something like 5 to 10 runs gives you enough tokens to trade for any piece that would drop from the raids. Getting 1 extra piece for 5 runs is t that much of a deal breaker, assuming the token only drops in non-new/capped raids.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Making the loot drops into coffers would remove the layer of RNG of trying to get the gear for the right role to drop... But it would also increase the amount of people rolling for it... Which they could easily offset by increasing the amount of drops per boss.

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I don't think you'd need to increase the number of coffers. Not everyone will want to roll on loot if they're not after something in particular, so at least some amount of the party will opt to pass or roll "greed". And then as you shift into the raids being older and more easily done with an undersized party, the number of people in the group (and therefore competitors for your loot roll) would further go down.

There is a difference between savage raids, which you can only run for loot once per week whether you actually win any loot or not, and alliance raids which you can run as many times per week as you want. The savage loot system makes sense for savage raids. It would be overgenerous for alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think you'd need to increase the number of coffers. Not everyone will want to roll on loot if they're not after something in particular, so at least some amount of the party will opt to pass or roll "greed". And then as you shift into the raids being older and more easily done with an undersized party, the number of people in the group (and therefore competitors for your loot roll) would further go down.

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There's no reason for people to do the Alliance Raid after they've gotten their weekly loot. So the competition for loot won't decrease over time. With coffers there would be even more people going after the same item, which I think should be countered by there being more of them to go around between the group.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

There's no reason for people to do the Alliance Raid after they've gotten their weekly loot. So the competition for loot won't decrease over time. With coffers there would be even more people going after the same item, which I think should be countered by there being more of them to go around between the group.

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A coffer per boss, and then if we're generous a second coffer at the last boss since it seems to be the main loot pinata of the raid. That's, what, 5 coffers per run? You have a decent chance of winning one during a run assuming they maintain one gear drop per week.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

There's no reason for people to do the Alliance Raid after they've gotten their weekly loot. So the competition for loot won't decrease over time.

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Yes it will – once it stops being one coffer per week, and once it goes into the roulette or gets run with an undersized party.

People will get what they need, and if they don't want to take what others need (or just can't be bothered with the process of opening the chests and handing in gear) they will reach a point where they start passing on chests.

I'm also against coffer for this kind of content.

What can be good trick at least, is the little "money" we got each week, maybe allowing to get one piece through that method, just like how 8 man raid works ?