Wish one of the new bosses in the current alliance raid had its own theme (spoilers)

Speaking of Halone specifically, I was sad she didn't get her own theme since she was so powerful and cool (literally) lol.

Giving Halone like a Heavensward-like theme would be really cool for her.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Speaking of Halone specifically, I was sad she didn't get her own theme since she was so powerful and cool (literally) lol.

Giving Halone like a Heavensward-like theme would be really cool for her.

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The theme used for the first three bosses fits the first 2 fights (Nophica, Althyk, and Nymeia) well enough, but it really doesn't suit Halone imo.

Honestly yeah.
I really like the Raid Theme, but its disappointing that Halone didnt get her own theme
And with how they Promoted the Raid, Im shocked she wasnt the Final Boss..

Menphina being the final boss didn't make sense to me either.

Halone has a much greater impact in the game. She's worshipped by a city-state, feared and revered by so many. Meanwhile, Menphina is mentioned here and there, but we never see a major worship of her.

I guess the dev team wanted to do other songs than "Guide us O Mighty Fury" again...

But it does make sense in the greater scope of the expansion in general - what SE have been consistantly using to advertise EW - the moon (it's even on the banner at the top of this forum!), and so featuring Menphina front and centre as the goddess of the moon in the Twelve only fits that.

Halone on the other hand... already featured heavily back in HW, so she was always going to pushed to side.

Mommy Halone Gang!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

But it does make sense in the greater scope of the expansion in general - what SE have been consistantly using to advertise EW - the moon (it's even on the banner at the top of this forum!), and so featuring Menphina front and centre as the goddess of the moon in the Twelve only fits that.

Halone on the other hand... already featured heavily back in HW, so she was always going to pushed to side.

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I did think of that. After all, this was the expansion where we go to the moon + the preorder reward item was the Menphina Earring.

...that said, I think it stops at that. The expansion's only focus on the moon has been the MSQ to kill Zodiark and meet the loporrits, then Hildibrand, and assuming it goes as I'm expecting it, probably the MSQ again for Golbez.
Menphina's fight features the moon as a symbol and she constantly draws power from "a moon"*, but that moon is nowhere to be seen around the arena save from the indicators. The moons we find in the Heaven of Ice aren't even real either, just representations.

It may be that that's the logic they chose to follow. But to me, that logic is kind of... "eh"? It needed a better execution :x it looks weak otherwise.

Halone being featured heavily in HSW is exactly what I said tho :P they got tired of going "Guide us O Mighty Fury" over and over again. But it'd be nice to see this "Fury" they keep dreading as an actual final encounter in all her splendor.

Then again, by this logic, Rhalgr should have been the final boss of Aglaia since he has a lot more prominence than Nald'thal does in the MSQ. So it'd be natural to not see Halone as the final piece. Which in turn makes me wonder who will be the final boss of the third raid, assuming it won't be Lucky God #13.

I wish they'd all got their own themes tbh

I wish all the Gods got more content in general. Themes, minions, housing portraits, Glamours... The Twelve was always a mysterious topic to me, something I wanted to badly explore because it read as if each of the Gods have uniqueness to them. I imagine my WoL to be somewhat pious as well. Like, it's such a massive deal in my mind to meet literal Gods, our chosen patron deities...

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

But it does make sense in the greater scope of the expansion in general - what SE have been consistantly using to advertise EW - the moon (it's even on the banner at the top of this forum!), and so featuring Menphina front and centre as the goddess of the moon in the Twelve only fits that.

Halone on the other hand... already featured heavily back in HW, so she was always going to pushed to side.

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Huh, funny. I didnt think of or consider both of those.
But, yeah still Halone is way more interesting then Menphina. No hate though, because despite my personal feelings, I did still enjoy the raid and her fight.
Best Boy is Best Boy...and should totally become a Mount

This raid series is all about referencing ARR (particularly in the music) and tying all that together. Halone doesn't fit in with that or the 3 city-state theme. Nald'thal gets featured for Ul'dah. Menphina and Dalamud is kind of a no-brainer. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the 3rd set.

I think they ALL should get an own theme, minion and TT card.

Feels bad to have basically picked the wrong deity. Nymeia does not even get her own fight.

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Originally Posted by Tint

I think they ALL should get an own theme, minion and TT card.

Feels bad to have basically picked the wrong deity. Nymeia does not even get her own fight.

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They're not even deities, so it's all moot. :)

I'm fine with Menphina being the final boss, however Halone definitely should've had her own BGM. The music in my head for her makes me think of colosseum battle music.

Missed opportunity

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

They're not even deities, so it's all moot. :)

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Actually, what are they?

Yes, I'm aware they're the deified members of Venat's little consortium. But does this mean they are Primals like her (beings empowered by aether, but molded by prayer), or are they just similar to Eikons but with a twist?

Same with the Heavens. Supposedly the Omphalos is in an area high above Silvertear Lake, but where are the Heavens? Because surely someone would have noticed a massive moon and its lesser companion. Even if they were cloaked, the gravitational effects would have made Astrologians feel something's odd. Same for the World Tree or the Spire.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Actually, what are they?

Yes, I'm aware they're the deified members of Venat's little consortium. But does this mean they are Primals like her (beings empowered by aether, but molded by prayer), or are they just similar to Eikons but with a twist?

Same with the Heavens. Supposedly the Omphalos is in an area high above Silvertear Lake, but where are the Heavens? Because surely someone would have noticed a massive moon and its lesser companion. Even if they were cloaked, the gravitational effects would have made Astrologians feel something's odd. Same for the World Tree or the Spire.

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I believe Primals and Eikons are one of the same. Hydaelyn and Zodiark each had an ancient serve as their hearts, but they are still primals. As for the Twelve, there is still more to learn about them. It could be possible that like Hydaelyn and Zodiark, there are members among the ancients that are their hearts, but they have sworn up and down that they are not primals. We do know that Dynamis plays a huge role as far as their appearance and power. They apparently don't need an abundance of crystals to retain their form, but they do rely heavily on prayer.

The heavens are of their own design. The ancients have shown that they are essentially gods, and are renowned with their creation magicks. Omphalos functions as a hub that grants those they allow passage into their realms. While Omphalos exists above Silvertear, the heavens themselves could be just about anywhere, and may not even be physical manifestations. That's purely speculation though, and we are really just going to have to wait to see how this tale concludes to get the answers we seek.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Actually, what are they?

Yes, I'm aware they're the deified members of Venat's little consortium. But does this mean they are Primals like her (beings empowered by aether, but molded by prayer), or are they just similar to Eikons but with a twist?

Same with the Heavens. Supposedly the Omphalos is in an area high above Silvertear Lake, but where are the Heavens? Because surely someone would have noticed a massive moon and its lesser companion. Even if they were cloaked, the gravitational effects would have made Astrologians feel something's odd. Same for the World Tree or the Spire.

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My theory is the phantom realm is something of a shelter they hid in during the sundering (a remnant of Elpis) and Hydaelyn's absence has allowed the entrance to become accessible. It would be hard to notice anything amiss if it were there the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Menphina being the final boss didn't make sense to me either.

Halone has a much greater impact in the game. She's worshipped by a city-state, feared and revered by so many. Meanwhile, Menphina is mentioned here and there, but we never see a major worship of her.

I guess the dev team wanted to do other songs than "Guide us O Mighty Fury" again...

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If you want the real reason, it's because each of the Twelve is assigned to either an Astral Moon or an Umbral Moon of their element.

Byregot is the Astral moon of Lightning
Rhalgar is the Umbral moon of Lightning
Azeyma is the Astral moon of Fire
Nald'Thal is the Umbral moon of Fire
Nophica is the Astral moon of earth
Althyk is the Umbral moon of earth
Halone is that Astral moon of Ice
Menphina is the Umbral moon of ice

You can see the trend that the bosses are fought in Astral -> Umbral order within their respective elements, meaning Menphina will always be after Halone. The only outlier to this rule is Nymeia who joins Althyk, but that likely has more to do with the fact that Nymeia & Althyk are siblings and the devs thought it'd be a fun tag team fight and wanted to make room in the next raid series for a potential fight with the unnamed god. If they had switched the elements for Euphrosyne around around, then Althyk & Nymeia would have been the final boss instead following their Astral <-> Umbral order.

Following this trend, we will know we'll fight Lymlaen before we fight Oschon in the next raid.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

If you want the real reason, it's because each of the Twelve is assigned to either an Astral Moon or an Umbral Moon of their element.

Byregot is the Astral moon of Lightning
Rhalgar is the Umbral moon of Lightning
Azeyma is the Astral moon of Fire
Nald'Thal is the Umbral moon of Fire
Nophica is the Astral moon of earth
Althyk is the Umbral moon of earth
Halone is that Astral moon of Ice
Menphina is the Umbral moon of ice

You can see the trend that the bosses are fought in Astral -> Umbral order within their respective elements, meaning Menphina will always be after Halone. The only outlier to this rule is Nymeia who joins Althyk, but that likely has more to do with the fact that Nymeia & Althyk are siblings and the devs thought it'd be a fun tag team fight and wanted to make room in the next raid series for a potential fight with the unnamed god. If they had switched the elements for Euphrosyne around around, then Althyk & Nymeia would have been the final boss instead following their Astral <-> Umbral order.

Following this trend, we will know we'll fight Lymlaen before we fight Oschon in the next raid.

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There is a unnamed god? Maybe I forgot that detail somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

There is a unnamed god? Maybe I forgot that detail somewhere.

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From the inscription in the Omphalos, revealed in the quests after you clear Euphrosyne and visit the monuments.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From the inscription in the Omphalos, revealed in the quests after you clear Euphrosyne and visit the monuments.

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Oh that explains it, I haven't done the after-alliance quests yet.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From the inscription in the Omphalos, revealed in the quests after you clear Euphrosyne and visit the monuments.

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Which leaves us questioning who the last boss actually is. They could throw a curve ball shocker at us by it turning out to be Louisuix (with him turning out to have been the Sundered version of their creator), or just randomly make up a person on the spot to be the one we fight. Or maybe even having us fight their "caretaker." Middy 3.0 anybody? :p

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Which leaves us questioning who the last boss actually is. They could throw a curve ball shocker at us by it turning out to be Louisuix (with him turning out to have been the Sundered version of their creator), or just randomly make up a person on the spot to be the one we fight. Or maybe even having us fight their "caretaker." Middy 3.0 anybody? :p

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Overseer might be a better term. ;) Sokles or their replacement?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Which leaves us questioning who the last boss actually is. They could throw a curve ball shocker at us by it turning out to be Louisuix (with him turning out to have been the Sundered version of their creator), or just randomly make up a person on the spot to be the one we fight. Or maybe even having us fight their "caretaker." Middy 3.0 anybody? :p

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Something occured to me, but Louisoix Leveilleur did not appear in The Aitiascope and he was a important character of that group!

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Something occured to me, but Louisoix Leveilleur did not appear in The Aitiascope and he was a important character of that group!

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I have thought about that before, because it would have made more sense for him to be the final guiding spirit instead of semi-resurrecting Minfilia (as a plot element if not physically) just to send her off yet again.

I think it's quite likely that they wanted to include him, but the optional nature of the Binding Coil storyline means that his soul is still potentially stranded there in Bahamut's thrall.

I would speculate that perhaps they got as far as putting him in that role, realising they couldn't use him that way, and hastily roping in Minfilia instead – thus the seemingly unnecessary business of pulling her back again after she'd had such a final send-off in Shadowbringers with F'lhaminn's sidequest.

The game treats everything as canon and done before (to an extent). Which is why Louisoix could appear. Krile and G'raha Tia are there, neither of whom met Louisuix. So the Coil stuff could easily be an extra line or two if you've done them, else you don't get that dialogue.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The game treats everything as canon and done before (to an extent). Which is why Louisoix could appear. Krile and G'raha Tia are there, neither of whom met Louisuix. So the Coil stuff could easily be an extra line or two if you've done them, else you don't get that dialogue.

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That is not how it works. If a sidequest changes the state that a character is in, then the MSQ alters dialogue to reflect the current state of affairs. If it cannot be covered with dialogue, it gets left out.

If a player has not done Binding Coil, there is a long-standing precedent that Alisaie's comments change to reflect our current completion state. If we left it unfinished, she says it is unfinished. If it's unfinished, then Louisoix's soul cannot be found in the Lifestream.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is not how it works. If a sidequest changes the state that a character is in, then the MSQ alters dialogue to reflect the current state of affairs. If it cannot be covered with dialogue, it gets left out.

If a player has not done Binding Coil, there is a long-standing precedent that Alisaie's comments change to reflect our current completion state. If we left it unfinished, she says it is unfinished. If it's unfinished, then Louisoix's soul cannot be found in the Lifestream.

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Iscah's right. Back before the Crystal Tower wasn't mandatory, the SHB MSQ reacted accordingly if you hadn't cleared it.

Same goes for EW's comments on Bozja or Dun Scaith when those NPCs show up, as well as the Omega quests and finishing Eureka (especially when Krile comments on Tsunjika's fate). The MSQ does acknowledge the content existing, but reacts to whether or not you've gone through it.