Please bring back Kaiten

Please bring back Kaiten. Thats it, thats the post.

Who’s Kaiten? Is he pretty?

https://media.tenor.com/D0iyVOssWHAAAAAj/adorable.gif

U mean This?

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Kaiten (回天, literal translation: "Turn the Heaven", commonly rendered as "turn of the Heaven's will", "the heaven shaker"[1]) were crewed torpedoes and suicide craft, used by the Imperial Japanese Navy in the final stages of World War II.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiten

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tober_2008.JPG

i hate how the only way to relieve myself of kinki is to shinten my pants

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Who’s Kaiten? Is he pretty?

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Sigh, this is why you don't skip cutscenes people.

He is the deceased father of the current King of Doma.

And that King is currently very popular because he's pretty, and one of his shoulders looks like a delicious hot-cross bun, so of course people always want to see more of the man who fathered him. Probably in Echo flashbacks, I'm guessing.

If Kaiten can't come back, then an alternative kenki spender would be nice. Maybe make the only two we have function in a similar way to Machinist's turret, where the more the gauge is filled the more powerful the strike at the cost of using a sizable junk of said gauge.

There are plenty of these posts in the DPS forum. :rolleyes:

P.S. Good riddance to Kaiten :)

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Sigh, this is why you don't skip cutscenes people.

He is the deceased father of the current King of Doma.

And that King is currently very popular because he's pretty, and one of his shoulders looks like a delicious hot-cross bun, so of course people always want to see more of the man who fathered him. Probably in Echo flashbacks, I'm guessing.

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Had to New+ SB and can confirm this post is truth.

I want Kaiten back as well. Samurai gameplay feels unrewarding and incredibly hollow without it.

Kaiten will not come back.

It's too difficult to balance the job when the off-GCD damage ressource interacts with the GCD damage in such a way.

You have to make sure that Shinten spam is always stronger than Kaiten spam while at the same time Shinten spam is always weaker than using Kaiten in specific situations.

What that means is that when they have to increase SAMs dps they can't simply increase the potency of the combo finishers and be done with it because it could happen that Kaiten on the combo finisher would become stronger than using Shinten. So they have to increase the potency of Shinten. But they have to make sure that Shinten does not become Stronger than Kaiten on your 3-Sticker-Attack.
Plus they have backed themself into a corner when it comes to adding new skills.

So what could they do? Kaiten interacts only with that one other skill? Sounds like the button bloat they said they wanted to remove when they took Kaiten away.

The mistake was to remove Kaiten mid-expansion with nothing new to add to the gameplay for another 2 years, not that they removed Kaiten in general.

I may be showing how little I understand about samurai but I think the better solution would have been to just remove shinten instead.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

There are plenty of these posts in the DPS forum. :rolleyes:

P.S. Good riddance to Kaiten :)

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Someone's bad at the game.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Someone's bad at the game.

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Come find out.

I can always get better, but Kaiten will never come back at this rate. :D

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Originally Posted by Tint

Kaiten will not come back.

It's too difficult to balance the job when the off-GCD damage ressource interacts with the GCD damage in such a way.

You have to make sure that Shinten spam is always stronger than Kaiten spam while at the same time Shinten spam is always weaker than using Kaiten in specific situations.

What that means is that when they have to increase SAMs dps they can't simply increase the potency of the combo finishers and be done with it because it could happen that Kaiten on the combo finisher would become stronger than using Shinten. So they have to increase the potency of Shinten. But they have to make sure that Shinten does not become Stronger than Kaiten on your 3-Sticker-Attack.
Plus they have backed themself into a corner when it comes to adding new skills.

So what could they do? Kaiten interacts only with that one other skill? Sounds like the button bloat they said they wanted to remove when they took Kaiten away.

The mistake was to remove Kaiten mid-expansion with nothing new to add to the gameplay for another 2 years, not that they removed Kaiten in general.

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FF14 Community explaining why your DPS job can't have more than 1 button.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Sigh, this is why you don't skip cutscenes people.

He is the deceased father of the current King of Doma.

And that King is currently very popular because he's pretty, and one of his shoulders looks like a delicious hot-cross bun, so of course people always want to see more of the man who fathered him. Probably in Echo flashbacks, I'm guessing.

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Nah, that's Cyan.

I am here just to say I keep reading this as Bring back Karen lol...

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Originally Posted by BetterLoser

Please bring back Third Eye->Open Eyes->Merciful Eyes. Thats it, thats the post.

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Fixed.
It was a good ability, it saved me from a lot of lazy healers.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

FF14 Community explaining why your DPS job can't have more than 1 button.

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Nani?!?
Ikishoten -> Ogi Namikiri x 2, Hissatsu senei
Meikyo Shisui -> Midare Setsugekka -> kaeshi Setsugekka) x 2
Shoa

not your average 1,1,1,1,1

It will come back in 7.0 as a trait. SAM got the dark arts treatment except they didnt get to keep the actual effect.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Sigh, this is why you don't skip cutscenes people.

He is the deceased father of the current King of Doma.

And that King is currently very popular because he's pretty, and one of his shoulders looks like a delicious hot-cross bun, so of course people always want to see more of the man who fathered him. Probably in Echo flashbacks, I'm guessing.

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Well well well…in that case, tell Kaiten I said “/hairflip Hi”

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Originally Posted by Luluna

I am here just to say I keep reading this as Bring back Karen lol...

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Your wish has been granted.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPQW7y7XMAAYDjR.png

I dont think it should have been removed...but at the same time Samurai dosnt feel any different without it.
Literally the only thing wrong with it gone, is I had to readjust my Muscle Memory to not hit 1 extra button. Thats just me though.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Your wish has been granted.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPQW7y7XMAAYDjR.png

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Hahahaha love it! Thank you for making me smile. Have a lovely day <3

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Come find out.

I can always get better, but Kaiten will never come back at this rate. :D

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Don't need to find anything out. Saying good riddance to kaitan while you haven't even touched savage content tells me everything I need to know.

I don't expect kaiten to come back, but don't inject yourself into a conversation with bad takes if you don't understand why kaiten being gone is a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by BetterLoser

Please bring back Kaiten. Thats it, thats the post.

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yes , bring it back , take away meditation instead as a sam main i have zero use for it

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Originally Posted by keichirou

yes , bring it back , take away meditation instead as a sam main i have zero use for it

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Ya, outside of trials and some dungeons there's rarely instances anymore where there is forced downtime with an untargatable boss, especially in savage fights. Those skills have been losing their purpose since 5.0 lol.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Don't need to find anything out. Saying good riddance to kaitan while you haven't even touched savage content tells me everything I need to know.

I don't expect kaiten to come back, but don't inject yourself into a conversation with bad takes if you don't understand why kaiten being gone is a bad thing.

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I have touched savage. I lost interest. I'll try again when I feel like finding a static. I think it's sad that you need to resort to personal attacks when you're wrong about something. You clearly have no argument to support adding kaiten back.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I have touched savage. I lost interest. I'll try again when I feel like finding a static. I think it's sad that you need to resort to personal attacks when you're wrong about something. You clearly have no argument to support adding kaiten back.

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There's a thread with over 50 pages with well detailed information on why katien being removed is a bad thing. Many of which are from me. I don't really feel like repeating it anymore. What's done is done and I'm just going to call it how I see it now.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I have touched savage. I lost interest. I'll try again when I feel like finding a static. I think it's sad that you need to resort to personal attacks when you're wrong about something. You clearly have no argument to support adding kaiten back.

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Of course you'd be okay with the classes being stripped of their identity and fun.
The damn game eventually gonna played without any limbs here at some point since you all
want every little, tiny bit of difficulty or thinking power to be stripped from this game.

FIX AST. FIX SAM.
Ex-AST main here.
I am here for you my SAM sistern/brethren.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's a thread with over 50 pages with well detailed information on why katien being removed is a bad thing. Many of which are from me. I don't really feel like repeating it anymore. What's done is done and I'm just going to call it how I see it now.

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You can't see a damn thing through them tears. Your alleged info clearly doesn't matter and is no good. All you can do is carry on like a baby, picking fights with anyone that disagrees. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Of course you'd be okay with the classes being stripped of their identity and fun.
The damn game eventually gonna played without any limbs here at some point since you all
want every little, tiny bit of difficulty or thinking power to be stripped from this game.

FIX AST. FIX SAM.
Ex-AST main here.
I am here for you my SAM sistern/brethren.

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oF cOuRsE yOu'D bE oKaY :rolleyes: Don't talk to me like you know me. SAM clearly isn't broken. The only thing broken is the record y'all keep playing.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Of course you'd be okay with the classes being stripped of their identity and fun.
The damn game eventually gonna played without any limbs here at some point since you all
want every little, tiny bit of difficulty or thinking power to be stripped from this game.

FIX AST. FIX SAM.
Ex-AST main here.
I am here for you my SAM sistern/brethren.

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SAM main here, kaiten didn't actually add anything. It didn't make the job or gauge more complex. No half decent SAM ever failed to leave enough kenki for kaiten.


The real loss was namikiri (terrible skill that replaced a nerfed setsugekka and does the same damn thing) and guren/shoha 2 not being merged into shoha and w/e the other ST ability is. Frankly shinten and the aoe should be 1 skill too.




Also, the AST mains I know prefer the current card system over the old "fish for balance and sometimes maybe another card" model.

Samurai Dark Arts

I only really leveled SAM after the Kiten removal, and I must admit after seeing the amount hate that choice was getting and how people claimed it had ‘lobotomised’ the job I expect the it to be a lifeless husk, but honestly I really love it. I adore its rotation and skill animations. I will say the Kenki system feels a little strange and is something I need to get better at. You get it so fast compared to other jobs with such resource mechanics that you really gotta keep up with weaving the spenders in or its so easy to hit cap haha. I am not sure if Kiten would really help this situation… I do think that out of all the DPS jobs I have played, it still could still use a bit more trimming to stave off button bloat? Nothing too big, but some of the ST/AOE skills feel like they could be merged into one.

The simplest reason why I'd say I personally liked Samurai with Kaiten much more than its current iteration is because the ability offered at least *some* degree of choice with how you did your rotation.

Choosing what to buff and when (although very straightforward) added a nice degree of control and finesse to the job. Regardless of how straightforward these choices ultimately were- I feel it was infinitely more interactive than just Shinten being your primary Kenki spender (a point that has already been beaten to death). The change, at least to me, just worked towards messing up what was once a unique aspect of a job and made the job overall more bland.

If they had to get rid of one or the other- I would have much rather they remove the basic and generic 250 potency OGCD attack instead of the ability actually meant to synergize with your weaponskills that followed a flow.

probably my favorite kind of sushi restaurant.
https://www.japan-guide.com/g19/2036_kaitenzushi_03.jpg

Indifferent to Kaiten, and I play this job in all new savage/ultimate fights. It was cool but also bland at the same time

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

SAM main here, kaiten didn't actually add anything. It didn't make the job or gauge more complex. No half decent SAM ever failed to leave enough kenki for kaiten.


The real loss was namikiri (terrible skill that replaced a nerfed setsugekka and does the same damn thing) and guren/shoha 2 not being merged into shoha and w/e the other ST ability is. Frankly shinten and the aoe should be 1 skill too.




Also, the AST mains I know prefer the current card system over the old "fish for balance and sometimes maybe another card" model.

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So instead of having some form of resource management, no matter how small it is, you'd rather have zero management at all and just spam shinten? I repeat, people who are ok with kaiten being gone are 100% lazy and don't want any kind of resource management and rotation optimization.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So instead of having some form of resource management, no matter how small it is, you'd rather have zero management at all and just spam shinten? I repeat, people who are ok with kaiten being gone are 100% lazy and don't want any kind of resource management and rotation optimization.

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There wasn't any with kaiten either. That's kind of my point.



20 was just 0 for everyone, that's all it was.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

There wasn't any with kaiten either. That's kind of my point.



20 was just 0 for everyone, that's all it was.

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There was. You could absolutely hold onto too much or overspend. No matter how minor your consider it, the resource management existed and it added some level of fun with a cool animation. Pre-buffing big hit attacks felt good. Auto crits that hit like wet noodles and a now pointless kenki bar where you just spam shinten whenever it lights up and spend excess kenki with gyoten does not feel good.