Content geared towards FCs

Any plans to ever incorporate group content based on FCs banding together to tackle content as a group? FCs kinda feel like social groups more than real guilds just my two gil.

They could implement something like the guild missions in GW2 which are weekly activities (races, mob hunts, jumping puzzles) that can only be done by guilds. They give tokens that can be exchanged for valuable goods (including some very good gear pieces, gearing is differently in GW2, so that doesn't translate directly).
They are actually quite fun.

They tried something like that with the original Diadem - back in the day you needed to take FC airships to get there (you were able to join groups from other FCs and join them on their airship, though). They did change that because people complained - granted, theres housing involved in this, but quite frankly I dont see the point in gating content behind FCs. Whats the benefit? If you want to do stuff with your FC, you can organise stuff with/for your FC, from weekly treasure hunts to doing the fox challenge to just running raids/dungeons together or anything the game has to offer really. I dont see the point in locking content behind FCs and forcing people to be in one for the sake of that.

If your guild doesnt feel like a guild (whatever that actually means), you could always change that yourself.

Ngl I think having a weekly boss type fight that syncs based on the number of FC members that join would be fun. They wouldn't require housing and could be queable in a new section of the DF with new bosses being added over time. They could reward XP, FC credits and maybe also offer several special buffs to the FC that the members could vote on which to pick (for example, one that provides a higher boost than a rank 3 buff to crafting & gathering xp for 24 hours or battle xp & reduced teleport fees).

Outside of what's already available, I don't know if it would really be a good idea at this point in time. Many people who raid either do it through a static made up of people from many FCs, or they do it through Party Finder. World and Data Center travel has made it way easier to find people to play with, so limiting any kind of content to FCs only will likely just exclude far too many people.

They once had an idea for an FC Summoning concept, where roaming primals can be captured for an FC to use later, the primal returning to the overworld after doing so. Nothing has been heard of it for years and it's almost certainly abandoned. Not only does it not fit the setting, anyone can see how incredibly toxic it would become.

The only way for SE to really make FCs good again would be to at first, make them cross-server. The addition of cross-server play has made server-only FCs ever more redundant.

Square Enix has been trying very hard to make FFXIV as single player as possible. They’d see FC content as a “burden” to the mythical solo player. Sadly, Square just isn't interested in group content anymore like they used to be. FCs across the North American playerbase have been dead for months unless they RP because there’s simply no reason to log in anymore. Repeatable group content would at least add some much-needed longevity to this game.

And that’s not to mention that Square has indeed made FCs obsolete. Many of us are required to log out and switch DCs to play content. That kills FCs for us. WoW has cross-realm guilds, why can’t we?

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Square Enix has been trying very hard to make FFXIV as single player as possible. They’d see FC content as a “burden” to the mythical solo player. Sadly, Square just isn't interested in group content anymore like they used to be. FCs across the North American playerbase have been dead for months unless they RP because there’s simply no reason to log in anymore. Repeatable group content would at least add some much-needed longevity to this game.

And that’s not to mention that Square has indeed made FCs obsolete. Many of us are required to log out and switch DCs to play content. That kills FCs for us. WoW has cross-realm guilds, why can’t we?

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What? WoW doesn't have cross-realm guilds. I think you're thinking about Communities, the parallel of which can be CWLS.

FCs? You mean that content people want to solo? :p

nope. SE wants to please those players with irl hardworking jobs that only have few hours of game time. and also solo players

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

What? WoW doesn't have cross-realm guilds. I think you're thinking about Communities, the parallel of which can be CWLS.

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https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/14296

I wish. Even something like guild missions would go a long way towards making FCs feel like more than linkshells with slightly more functionality. As it stands, it's really difficult to make an objective case for even joining a community FC over making your own solo FC and simply communicating with friends via LS/CWLS, especially with solo fc home ownership being a major incentive.

In Tera, we had guild missions that officers could select from the guild menu. These were really really basic but it was still more than we have in XIV. To put it in XIV terms, the guild leader would pick a mission titled, say, "Run Dun Scaith 8 times." and the quest would begin, and everyone in the FC would see it visible. From that moment on, anyone in the FC who ran Dun Scaith would count towards that 0/8 goal, and if a full 8man squad of FC members went in together, they could finish the quest in a single run, since 8 of them completed it. Doing these quests boosted your guild's rank, and you'd be able to see your guild's ranking in game set against other guilds, so it got kind of competitive. At one point, guild housing was even sort of teased as an incentive to support your guild but the devs dropped it.

In BDO as well, guild quests were implemented in a way that was like "kill 500 of X monster" and anytime anyone in the guild killed that monster, it counted towards the quest. You got like, guild contribution for this or something and then at the end of a certain time period the guild leader would issue payouts that were distributed to every member with people who had higher ranks and higher contributions getting more money back than people who didn't contribute anything.

In this game, there's just nothing. Someone earlier said "if you want to do things with your FC, just do it" in like a "be the change you want to see" kind of way, but the thing about that is it's a two way street. I might want to run random content with people in my FC, but if my FCmates don't see a reason to, say, run puppets bunker in 2023 or something, then they're not gonna agree to do it. Square could incentivize and facilitate group efforts by implementing any of the examples I just mentioned, but they've chosen not to for many years and now here we are. Imagine trying to recruit someone to your community FC in the current year. What can you offer them that they can't just get from a linkshell and a solo FC? I say this as someone in a community FC where our main competition isn't even other FCs sniping our members; it's people just leaving to be in FCs by themselves so they can have specific buffs on demand, their own house, and their own army of submarines that they alone can control, while losing no real socialization aspect since they continue chilling with us in linkshells anyway. The last time I asked someone what they could get out of a community fc that they couldn't get from just having a solo fc and inviting their friends to a linkshell, the answer I got was literally "uhhh FCs have a MotD function," like come on bro.

As long as it doesn't need an FC house. Whoever thought adding large gil making content for FCs to housing, then make that housing compete with other FCs and even Solos.. Then also give Large houses more garden space. It's literally begging for snowbally wealth and exploitation. This shit is just gift wrapping power-gamers that sub to have whole wards of solo FCs just generating gil. Praising FOMO like this, no wonder SE loves NFTs. lol

Please SE, move this stuff outside of housing. You shouldn't need a House to have an FC Workshop, it's not like you can even deco it.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

What can you offer them that they can't just get from a linkshell and a solo FC?

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Additional worry-free (relatively) housing space at a low price. ;)

Content geared toward FCs would likely end up putting pressure on people to do whatever it is and only that (potentially). You'd have people kicking those that aren't contributing enough. There's already plenty of group content to do out there and you don't have to be in an FC to do it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Additional worry-free (relatively) housing space at a low price. ;)

Content geared toward FCs would likely end up putting pressure on people to do whatever it is and only that (potentially). You'd have people kicking those that aren't contributing enough. There's already plenty of group content to do out there and you don't have to be in an FC to do it.

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Housing space that they generally can't even decorate. Whereas if you went the solo FC route, you could simply purchase your own home and have the full range of decorative ability. I will grant you this: with demolition returning, the "worry free" aspect does become relevant, but in my experience most people would rather have their own solo fc home that they can decorate without consideration for anyone else, even if it comes with some worries, over a "community FC" home that just exists and was already decorated by someone else and requires a specific rank to decorate and every change you make might upset others who liked the house as it was, etc. etc.

The rest of your post, I'll just say this. Having come from MMOs with these systems, neither of them had people being kicked for inactivity. Maybe you experienced differently though.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

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I think they were mostly talking about FC House 'Rooms'. Which isn't really worry-free tbh. I've seen FCs explode and you lose the 300k + room deco, and I've had to explode other people's rooms. We just need more and larger apartments, and give them a balcony for gardening and other shiz. Not more Wards.

But FC Housing shouldn't compete as a better version of Solo Housing. That's the problem here. Giving additional features because it's an FC house is just bad FOMO design and only encourages players to create Solo FCs. It's like if we only allowed FCs to Treasure Hunt, people would make solo FCs just for that. So whatever if they want a Solo FC fine, but when it's designed to also mechanically take away from the Solo players as well (FC Housing), then it's bad.

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Originally Posted by R041

I think they were mostly talking about FC House 'Rooms'. Which isn't really worry-free tbh. I've seen FCs explode and you lose the 300k + room deco, and I've had to explode other people's rooms. We just need more and larger apartments, and give them a balcony for gardening and other shiz. Not more Wards.

But FC Housing shouldn't compete as a better version of Solo Housing. That's the problem here. Giving additional features because it's an FC house is just bad FOMO design and only encourages players to create Solo FCs. It's like if we only allowed FCs to Treasure Hunt, people would make solo FCs just for that. So whatever if they want a Solo FC fine, but when it's designed to also mechanically take away from the Solo players as well (FC Housing), then it's bad.

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Yeah I agree on all of that, 100%.
Not being sarcastic either, like I genuinely have nothing to add. The current system is not good from an incentives standpoint and just pushes people to engage in solo activity that hurts community building efforts.

Maybe they'll make changes and adjustments when they plan to update the GCs..,<don't recall if they ever mention, what, when, and if about that. I personally felt like it was a given in the future for them to update> Seeing as they are Adjacent to each other(both FCs and GCs.., maybe even changes to note the story effects, without spoiling)

They can add content to FCs without giving people reason to feel like it alienates players without FC/s, or in different FCs.<and maybe repurpose some of that allowing other FCs and players to partake if one FC opens it up. you know those large FCs always posting ads will want to lure people in with that.>

and even if SE does head towards a solo able MSQ that doesn't mean it stops them from improving or implementing their Multiple Player Contents, and FC content.
<We've had this back and forth between others before. Complaining that it's to restrictive against solo players forced to do Multi-player, and then the game been pushed to Soloable to shut down any positive change.>

There's no harm so far if they make it be open to all in some form.<Maybe FCs get a nice Bonus/Chunk Reward, but that would be it. depending on how much the FC has in Resources/Land. but of course balances would have to be made. like once per account. would definitely sting multiple FC owners/Alters.> and as some mentioned, with the OG Diadem, Give some incentive to invite players from other/without FCs to join.<Specially since not all FCs are large, and depending on the content available, IF They add a Variance at some point, some FCs may need assistance to fill out left over spaces, or optional spaces.>

but again, thinking over how something that doesn't exist could work. and not step on any sides toes without resorting to x proves y wrong so z could never be like some intentionally or unintentionally do.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

They tried something like that with the original Diadem - back in the day you needed to take FC airships to get there (you were able to join groups from other FCs and join them on their airship, though). They did change that because people complained - granted, theres housing involved in this, but quite frankly I dont see the point in gating content behind FCs. Whats the benefit? If you want to do stuff with your FC, you can organise stuff with/for your FC, from weekly treasure hunts to doing the fox challenge to just running raids/dungeons together or anything the game has to offer really. I dont see the point in locking content behind FCs and forcing people to be in one for the sake of that.

If your guild doesnt feel like a guild (whatever that actually means), you could always change that yourself.

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Key word is "incentive". Just like any good game that has variety of activities, they implement incentives for you wanting to do them. Why would I bother savage raiding? Because the incentive is getting BiS, why do I bother doing select old dungeons and raids? Because the incentive is to collect moogle tomestones, why would I bother doing old relic chains? Because the incentive is to collect nice weapon glams.

So them implementing more group based activities for FC's to do on a weekly or perhaps a monthly basis helps keep some level of social activity with your select group besides just the lackluster FC buffs.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Any plans to ever incorporate group content based on FCs banding together to tackle content as a group? FCs kinda feel like social groups more than real guilds just my two gil.

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That's almost all the content in the game because almost all the content in the game can be tackled by FCs (and are by some).

The only reason to restrict a content to FCs specifically would be to exclude people whose FCs can't do it or who aren't in one and to restrict activities to homeworlds (which Yoshi-P is against, he ended the game and re-released it with a new engine just so we could do content across worlds and therefore not with an FC). It's not a smart business decision to do any of this.

There is some content that only an FC can do which is voyages. This is almost the only content I don't ever intend to do because I don't want to go and create an FC just to do that and that proves my point that it excludes people.

They should really do this. Just update FCs so that they can operate in any server or dc. Then they can finally give FCs a purpose besides buffs or being a way to make money for the ranks in it.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Key word is "incentive". Just like any good game that has variety of activities, they implement incentives for you wanting to do them. Why would I bother savage raiding? Because the incentive is getting BiS, why do I bother doing select old dungeons and raids? Because the incentive is to collect moogle tomestones, why would I bother doing old relic chains? Because the incentive is to collect nice weapon glams.

So them implementing more group based activities for FC's to do on a weekly or perhaps a monthly basis helps keep some level of social activity with your select group besides just the lackluster FC buffs.

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See, thats what I often dont understand - I do content because I enjoy doing it, not only or mainly because of the carrot... Maybe thats because I dont see the need for enforced FC-only content, because I already enjoy playing the game with my friends/FC...

Edit: Actually, I do get the incentive thing to a degree when it comes to loot - but its super confusing to me that people seem to feel that they need to be basically bribed into playing the game with their friends... Being "forced" to do stuff with your FC seems like it shouldnt be a thing, because if you dont enjoy doing stuff with said FC, why are you even in the FC in the first place? (buffy can be gotten elsewhere and are honestly not game changing...)

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Originally Posted by kevin_satron

nope. SE wants to please those players with irl hardworking jobs that only have few hours of game time. and also solo players

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Sooo... Japan...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

See, thats what I often dont understand - I do content because I enjoy doing it, not only or mainly because of the carrot... Maybe thats because I dont see the need for enforced FC-only content, because I already enjoy playing the game with my friends/FC...

Edit: Actually, I do get the incentive thing to a degree when it comes to loot - but its super confusing to me that people seem to feel that they need to be basically bribed into playing the game with their friends... Being "forced" to do stuff with your FC seems like it shouldnt be a thing, because if you dont enjoy doing stuff with said FC, why are you even in the FC in the first place? (buffy can be gotten elsewhere and are honestly not game changing...)

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Its not a full bribe thing. Rewards are rewards. You derive some of the fun of doing it because you get a reward out of it. Its just playing a bit into the dopamine aspect of MMOs, the issue is keeping a good balance of it with content where its not JUST about the rewards. But if something lacks any tangible reward then that personally affects my brain into not doing it. Thats what incentives mean to me.

Which is why I dont mind Hildibrand quests being a requirement for EW's relic chain. Its a nice incentive to get people to do em since you get some decent trials out of them, also some blue mage spells are acquired from them so there's yet another incentive.

I think the problem is the loose terminology of saying "forced". Am I forced to join an FC in order to progress the game? No. Am I forced to participate in FC made activities such as contests, maps, fate trains etc? No. I just want more in-game activities to be available for FCs. Thats really all to it.

Gating content behind mandatory FCs seems like a terrible idea. The FCs/Guilds in this game are already a breath of fresh air since you can just leave at any time without risking progression or the ability to do content, unlike other MMOs. FCs have plenty of content they can do already, they just have to plan and organize it themselves because SE doesn't section off certain features and say "woah hang on you have to be in an active FC of at least x number of players to do this content".

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its not a full bribe thing. Rewards are rewards. You derive some of the fun of doing it because you get a reward out of it. Its just playing a bit into the dopamine aspect of MMOs, the issue is keeping a good balance of it with content where its not JUST about the rewards. But if something lacks any tangible reward then that personally affects my brain into not doing it. Thats what incentives mean to me.

Which is why I dont mind Hildibrand quests being a requirement for EW's relic chain. Its a nice incentive to get people to do em since you get some decent trials out of them, also some blue mage spells are acquired from them so there's yet another incentive.

I think the problem is the loose terminology of saying "forced". Am I forced to join an FC in order to progress the game? No. Am I forced to participate in FC made activities such as contests, maps, fate trains etc? No. I just want more in-game activities to be available for FCs. Thats really all to it.

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This is pretty much what i was trying to say.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Gating content behind mandatory FCs seems like a terrible idea. The FCs/Guilds in this game are already a breath of fresh air since you can just leave at any time without risking progression or the ability to do content, unlike other MMOs. FCs have plenty of content they can do already, they just have to plan and organize it themselves because SE doesn't section off certain features and say "woah hang on you have to be in an active FC of at least x number of players to do this content".

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If the content is optional and invigorates FCs to band together outside of 90% of content that can nearly be done solo/PF whats the issue?

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

If the content is optional and invigorates FCs to band together outside of 90% of content that can nearly be done solo/PF whats the issue?

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The issue is forcing players to be in an FC they don't want to be in because they need it for the content, also gating solo players or people who aren't in a dedicated and large FC from doing the content and getting the rewards.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Housing space that they generally can't even decorate. Whereas if you went the solo FC route, you could simply purchase your own home and have the full range of decorative ability. I will grant you this: with demolition returning, the "worry free" aspect does become relevant, but in my experience most people would rather have their own solo fc home that they can decorate without consideration for anyone else, even if it comes with some worries, over a "community FC" home that just exists and was already decorated by someone else and requires a specific rank to decorate and every change you make might upset others who liked the house as it was, etc. etc.

The rest of your post, I'll just say this. Having come from MMOs with these systems, neither of them had people being kicked for inactivity. Maybe you experienced differently though.

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You can still decorate your own space in an FC house when you pick up private quarters. I recently learned you can get 512 private quarters inside an FC house, so there's another reason the housing system isn't likely to change. It seems a shame that people waste that potential space on having their own FC plot. If you feel the need to decorate a full sized house, that's something you might consider doing elsewhere. Eorzea might be a better place if you had more leadership that didn't just invest in the houses to satisfy their decoration fetish.

As for the politics of FCs, I've been part of groups in other games that require regular contributions, whether it's attending raids or contributing to upkeep of the house. On here, I've heard of people being kicked for less / nothing at all. I have a nice quiet FC where people just login and play the game. I have no desire to see any kind of carrot dangling off my FC.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its not a full bribe thing. Rewards are rewards. You derive some of the fun of doing it because you get a reward out of it. Its just playing a bit into the dopamine aspect of MMOs, the issue is keeping a good balance of it with content where its not JUST about the rewards. But if something lacks any tangible reward then that personally affects my brain into not doing it. Thats what incentives mean to me.

Which is why I dont mind Hildibrand quests being a requirement for EW's relic chain. Its a nice incentive to get people to do em since you get some decent trials out of them, also some blue mage spells are acquired from them so there's yet another incentive.

I think the problem is the loose terminology of saying "forced". Am I forced to join an FC in order to progress the game? No. Am I forced to participate in FC made activities such as contests, maps, fate trains etc? No. I just want more in-game activities to be available for FCs. Thats really all to it.

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But what would be the benefit of having these activities only be available to FCs? I really fail to see why that would be a better thing over content thats just available to any group of people, no matter if they're in the same FC or not. We've got lots of content that is available to FCs - you mention a few yourself, but pretty much any content in game can be done with a group of FC-members, if you want to do content together. Maybe its me but it seems really weird to me to need an extra-reward to do content with people you enjoy having around - at least for me running a raid with some FC-mates feels more rewarding than doing it by myself because I know I've got competent people with me, as well as having someone to talk to during the run.

More content would surely be nice - but I dont see how "more content, but have to do with your FC" is better than just more content that you can do with anyone you want.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The issue is forcing players to be in an FC they don't want to be in because they need it for the content, also gating solo players or people who aren't in a dedicated and large FC from doing the content and getting the rewards.

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If the content is optional why does this matter? There are tons of content that can be otherwise and multiple forms of progression. I am still failing to see how this forces anyone to do anything?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I recently learned you can get 512 private quarters inside an FC house

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Yep, it really is the dumbest shit.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Private_Chamber
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Apartments

How the fuck are Apartments limited and only Small, when we can have basically infinite FC Rooms? Apartment Buildings can only hold 90. What kinda backwards bullshit is this? I can go own an Apartment, House, FC House, AND FC Room - All on the same character. So why can't we just own 1 Med/Large Apartment with a Patio?

And just to prove it, my dumbass did just that.

https://i.imgur.com/kcA8dmf.png

I want to blame Yoshi here, but SE also has the majority of the NFT brain rot. This is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard. It really is just corporate generated FOMO at this point.

If you're not already doing content with your FC then content structure like this will only make you hate your FC. If you would like to play with your FC members, you would already do that.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

If the content is optional why does this matter? There are tons of content that can be otherwise and multiple forms of progression. I am still failing to see how this forces anyone to do anything?

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What you're asking for is for content and glams, gear, rewards, and mounts that would normally be available to everyone, gets sectioned off for only a small handful of people who have large active FCs. It's far from being "optional" when you take something people want to do and then say only a small number of people actually get to do it because you're arbitrarily gating it off. We've progressed past that in MMOs, even WoW was phasing it out since people would get trapped on a horde server as alliance and just be sol when it came to raiding and content.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

If you're not already doing content with your FC then content structure like this will only make you hate your FC. If you would like to play with your FC members, you would already do that.

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It might make you hate your current FC, but it would also motivate people to make their own FCs that have what they want.

FCs currently are just hives of drama. There's no reason for them not to be really. If you make exclusive meaningful content for FCs then there will be a good reason for FCs to shape themselves up in order to recruit for that content and others will be motivated to make their own FCs for said content too.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

It might make you hate your current FC, but it would also motivate people to make their own FCs that have what they want.

FCs currently are just hives of drama. There's no reason for them not to be really. If you make exclusive meaningful content for FCs then there will be a good reason for FCs to shape themselves up in order to recruit for that content and others will be motivated to make their own FCs for said content too.

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Why would FCs suddenly not be hives of drama anymore? They arent drama hives specifically because there is no content gated behind FCs. They are hives of drama because the people making them up are hives of drama.

They dont even have to make a content specifically for FC to make people in FC do contents together. Increased rewards will be enough but I would love it if theres a new content geared towards FC

But yeah FC in this game has always been more like a social group anyway. You join an FC and most of the time they have a voice chat group somewhere while the FC chat itself is very quiet. Its annoying really.

Outside of housing, there is no difference between FC and CWLS, and maybe FC tag in your name. Thats all theres to it.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

They dont even have to make a content specifically for FC to make people in FC do contents together. Increased rewards will be enough but I would love it if theres a new content geared towards FC

But yeah FC in this game has always been more like a social group anyway. You join an FC and most of the time they have a voice chat group somewhere while the FC chat itself is very quiet. Its annoying really.

Outside of housing, there is no difference between FC and CWLS, and maybe FC tag in your name. Thats all theres to it.

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I agree i just want to do unique activities with my group. If we can get tons of side quests, hildebrand,gold saucer, or other content that ultimately ends up being for fun/glamour i really don't understand resistance to content that encourages a little camaraderie. Not an unreasonable suggestion I'm genuinely confused at the resistance.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

I agree i just want to do unique activities with my group. If we can get tons of side quests, hildebrand,gold saucer, or other content that ultimately ends up being for fun/glamour i really don't understand resistance to content that encourages a little camaraderie. Not an unreasonable suggestion I'm genuinely confused at the resistance.

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You are facing resistance specifically for the FC lock you are proposing. You can just have normal content and do it with your FC if your FC is interested. Plenty of FCs already do community stuff.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

I agree i just want to do unique activities with my group. If we can get tons of side quests, hildebrand,gold saucer, or other content that ultimately ends up being for fun/glamour i really don't understand resistance to content that encourages a little camaraderie. Not an unreasonable suggestion I'm genuinely confused at the resistance.

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You can already do things with your FC without taking content and gatekeeping it from people without an active FC. Just do it. Schedule raid nights, schedule MINE runs, social events, etc. Nothing is stopping it from happenning. You just want there to be content that only you can do and other people can't. Nobody wants that. All of the other content you listed is possible both as a group or solo. None of it is gatekept behind a requirement of having an active FC of at least a certain size that actively runs the content to get your reward.