Please do something about the inactivity of Rival Wings on the NA Servers

Anything please, I'm so tired of Frontlines!

Add to Roulette! Anything at all! Frontlines is driving me crazy! I'm so sick of the fact it only becomes "relevant" when there is irregular tomestomes involved.

I think they need to retire Rival Wings entirely, to be honest - and I'm saying that as someone with the mounts on two different characters, and making progress on a third. There are too many core issues with the mode that they haven't addressed (supposedly they're working on Astralagos though?), and there's a serious lack of catch-up mechanics that mean games are almost invariably heavily one-sided. No, a Brute Justice is not a catch-up mechanism when you can have a complete moron bogart it.

Hidden Gorge needs to be at least 50% larger (increase mount speed and Oppressor missile range if necessary) and there probably needs to be some variability in timers. Soaring probably needs to be a temporary buff, not a permanent one. Give players something like WoW's R.P.G.G. to deal heavy damage to machina if necessary to compensate for loss of the damage bonus.

And more than anything... Rival Wings is a mode where you really cannot have people ignoring objectives. People *must* be using the map to maintain awareness of enemy positions, they *must* be checking timers, etc. But there is no tutorial or training mode and you can't stop to teach people mid-game. Moreover, even if you understand what each mech does and its purposes, you still really need some hands-on experience with it in order to really grasp how to properly use it. But giving a noob your party's mech instantly reduces your team's effectiveness. We can plonk down target dummies for PvE practice, and there's Stone, Sea, and Sky for rudimentary DPS checks for raids. But there's no training or practice modes for PvP...

If Square-Enix are going to refuse to do their damn jobs and teach their players how to play their game, then they need to retire the modes that you can't just brute force your way through. Frontlines technically has objectives, but the core focus is really just "kill the enemy players" and the objectives just function as a carrot on a stick to draw players into fights with each other. You can therefore basically just brute force your way to wins in Frontlines. But you can't do that in Rival Wings, which is why games are almost always completely one-sided.

I'm just glad I got the mounts from that when I did, but damn does Frontlines get old.

Hell they even REMOVED Frontline Maps which never made sense, why take away variety?

It's just Square-Enix being inconsistent, like they often are. They took Astralagos out of the game a long, long time ago because they felt it failed to measure up to what they wanted out of it (or something like that), yet Secure hasn't gone anywhere even though it was the very first FL map and it has a lot of very outdated design elements that probably could stand to be touched up.

I'm guessing whoever is nominally in charge of PvP isn't very good at the whole managerial oversight thing, or something. Though PvP isn't the only example of inconsistencies in Square-Enix's apparent approach to development.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I think they need to retire Rival Wings entirely, to be honest - and I'm saying that as someone with the mounts on two different characters, and making progress on a third. There are too many core issues with the mode that they haven't addressed (supposedly they're working on Astralagos though?), and there's a serious lack of catch-up mechanics that mean games are almost invariably heavily one-sided. No, a Brute Justice is not a catch-up mechanism when you can have a complete moron bogart it.

Hidden Gorge needs to be at least 50% larger (increase mount speed and Oppressor missile range if necessary) and there probably needs to be some variability in timers. Soaring probably needs to be a temporary buff, not a permanent one. Give players something like WoW's R.P.G.G. to deal heavy damage to machina if necessary to compensate for loss of the damage bonus.

And more than anything... Rival Wings is a mode where you really cannot have people ignoring objectives. People *must* be using the map to maintain awareness of enemy positions, they *must* be checking timers, etc. But there is no tutorial or training mode and you can't stop to teach people mid-game. Moreover, even if you understand what each mech does and its purposes, you still really need some hands-on experience with it in order to really grasp how to properly use it. But giving a noob your party's mech instantly reduces your team's effectiveness. We can plonk down target dummies for PvE practice, and there's Stone, Sea, and Sky for rudimentary DPS checks for raids. But there's no training or practice modes for PvP...

If Square-Enix are going to refuse to do their damn jobs and teach their players how to play their game, then they need to retire the modes that you can't just brute force your way through. Frontlines technically has objectives, but the core focus is really just "kill the enemy players" and the objectives just function as a carrot on a stick to draw players into fights with each other. You can therefore basically just brute force your way to wins in Frontlines. But you can't do that in Rival Wings, which is why games are almost always completely one-sided.

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They need to retire PVP entirely, unless they want to revert it back to what 3.0 was where players had options and it wasn't so brain dead.
Genuinely don't know why they waste their time with the worst part of FFXIV. The only reason it gets activity is for the rewards. If a game needs to reward players simply to have activity, then the game probably isn't very fun.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

They need to retire PVP entirely, unless they want to revert it back to what 3.0 was where players had options and it wasn't so brain dead.
Genuinely don't know why they waste their time with the worst part of FFXIV. The only reason it gets activity is for the rewards. If a game needs to reward players simply to have activity, then the game probably isn't very fun.

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Then you might as well say virtually any game in the past 10-15 years is bad/not very fun, seeing as how virtually all of them feature carrot-on-stick type mechanics, even the single-player ones.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

They need to retire PVP entirely, unless they want to revert it back to what 3.0 was where players had options and it wasn't so brain dead.
Genuinely don't know why they waste their time with the worst part of FFXIV. The only reason it gets activity is for the rewards. If a game needs to reward players simply to have activity, then the game probably isn't very fun.

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That's genuinely funny, not because I disagree that FL would have queues as long as RW if it didn't have any rewards attached to it - but how many people do you really think would spend weeks on the harder PVE content if there were no rewards? Half of the content would just disappear.

Rival Wings is fun and also gives mog tomes.
More people should try it.
Sadly the only time it pops on Crystal DC is usually Friday evenings due to the Revival Wings discord.
It would be nice if it were in the pvp roulette rotation.
Whatever happened to Astragalos? I barely remember it. Are there plans to revamp it?

The fact that they haven't put Rival Wings as a daily roulette yet is absolutely braindead from the devs. It's not gonna make the levelling experience of levelling alt jobs easier. Last expansion, max lvl was 80. Now it's 90. It would not hurt to give us another daily type of daily roulette for levelling. So why haven't they done it yet? I can only think of one thing. Pure stupidity. It makes no sense not making Rival Wings a daily roulette when we got more levels and more alt jobs to level.

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Originally Posted by Edelgarde

The fact that they haven't put Rival Wings as a daily roulette yet is absolutely braindead from the devs. It's not gonna make the levelling experience of levelling alt jobs easier. Last expansion, max lvl was 80. Now it's 90. It would not hurt to give us another daily type of daily roulette for levelling. So why haven't they done it yet? I can only think of one thing. Pure stupidity. It makes no sense not making Rival Wings a daily roulette when we got more levels and more alt jobs to level.

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You know, it's unfortunate but the reverse argument can also be applied. Adding it to the roulette in the present state could see an influx of "pure stupidity" into a what a previous poster has already well described as an objective-based PVP design.

RL, even more than FL rewards people who understand and know how to achieve the objectives, and understand how/when to use various mechs. This isn't well explained to new players, and without some training option or mandatory tutorial that would gate entry into RL, then I would expect that a fair number of people would queue in and either not know what to do or not care as long as they get exp.

Again, that's very unfortunate I would really like to see what you're asking for , however at the minimum I would want to have new RL players have to complete some into/Cutscene - something - that explains RL added first.

As much as I *want* a RW queue so that RW is active between moogle or Revival events... it wouldn't fly. Anyone that's played RW during moogle events, when noobs flock the mode, knows exactly why. At least in Revival events, most players are *probably* on the server or are being directed there, so you can talk to people to explain things to them if they're doing something wrong or would benefit from being grouped with experienced players. But in moogle events...?

You can *kind of* ignore objectives in FL and win simply by killing the other guys better than they kill you, entirely due to the fact that a large portion of the score is from kills. If you ignore objectives in RW, misuse mechs, etc... you will lose, and lose very badly. I'm not convinced a mandatory training mission would help, either... you can just look at PvE for why that might not work. This is a playerbase that has been conditioned to believe that they don't need to even read tooltips in order to play the game.

Every time there are some news about the game, Im hopping to them to announce that RW will go to the dailies.

Some players would call this a mistake because "noobs" doesnt know how to play the game. And how could they know? Every time you queue for it you have to wait for a miracle to actually find a match.

NOW, if the game mode were on the dailies, players could have a chance to actually play the mode and learn it. It would be just like Frontlines: the players that actually know how to play the game will guide the new ones, and after a couple of week of "dailies", the new ones will start to know how to actually play it.


So yeah, it is so obvious that this mode needs to be added to dailies that it hurts.

While I am in favor of adding Rival Wings as a roulette, the only reason is so I could team up with people who understand the mode, farm my remaining wins and be done with the mode faster.

There is a slim to none chance that the games could ever be good. Just look at Frontlines Shatter. It's been out for years, the games are always a mess and the players only need to pay attention to one objective (big and small ice spawning).

Now, you would expect 24 random players, split into 6 alliances of four, to be able to coordinate getting into mechs, using them correctly, pay attention to the middle train spawns and what they give, be able to judge how much people you need on lanes to attack or defend, pay attention to the mercenary spawning and keep their alliance CE stock high enough to be able to get into robots ? Please.

There are games organized by PVP discords, with what are technically supposed to be your more "talented" PVPers and the games are a lopsided stomp 9 times out of 10. The carry potential in Rival Wings by a team of four who understands the mode is incredible. I've seen people win 75 games in a row.

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Originally Posted by KenaiChoppa

Every time there are some news about the game, Im hopping to them to announce that RW will go to the dailies.

Some players would call this a mistake because "noobs" doesnt know how to play the game. And how could they know? Every time you queue for it you have to wait for a miracle to actually find a match.

NOW, if the game mode were on the dailies, players could have a chance to actually play the mode and learn it. It would be just like Frontlines: the players that actually know how to play the game will guide the new ones, and after a couple of week of "dailies", the new ones will start to know how to actually play it.


So yeah, it is so obvious that this mode needs to be added to dailies that it hurts.

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You are probably correct with this. The nice thing about RW is that a 50/50 chance of winning makes it a bit more fun for newbies, and you can largely handle the biggest issues of RW with macros telling people what to do and how things work.

If nothing else, it's just wasteful to have content in the game that is largely unused by the majority of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

There are games organized by PVP discords, with what are technically supposed to be your more "talented" PVPers and the games are a lopsided stomp 9 times out of 10. The carry potential in Rival Wings by a team of four who understands the mode is incredible. I've seen people win 75 games in a row.

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The core issue with RW is that the maps are generally too small (possibly designed in a time where they needed to be PS3 compatible?), and there's a severe lack of "catch-up" mechanics like in FL. In FL, one good fight can swing enough BH to your team to be able to start winning more fights, and the RNG (which is a little too excessive, but overall a positive influence) on node activation etc helps as well.

In RW, Soaring is just a flat stacking buff and it never goes away. Additionally, one or even two Brute Justices are not so powerful that you can easily recover, especially if those Justices are not supported by their team and piloted by players that know how to utilize them properly. Watching someone bogart a Justice and kill it by charging the enemy instead of lurking behind a wall of players sniping mechs and enemy players... ugh. I think they ought to remove Soaring and just straight up replace it with Battle High, since you lose BH on death. If that alone isn't sufficient, then maybe reduce the CE cost of mechs for the team that's behind by a certain amount? Like if your core is 30 or more points lower than the enemy core, your mechs only cost 40 instead of 50?

Rival Wings is just a poor mode for the NA playerbase, really. It demands too much of people who already want to get by with as little effort or responsibility as possible. Gordon absolutely nailed it; the people "playing" modes like Shatter that can't even understand the basic premise of watching the map (or listening to callouts) to go after objectives are going to be absolutely dismal in a mode with several different objectives of varying priorities and a party-wide resource. If you couldn't be arsed to constantly pay attention to the map in any Frontlines mode, you are dead in the water for Rival Wings.

Nearly every complaint (unfounded or otherwise) I often see about Frontlines in general or CC is magnified in RW. "I don't wanna do objectives, I want to (try to) kill people:" then RW would blow your mind with the sheer amount of things going on. "My team sucks, we were doomed from the 1st engagement:" Enjoy having to wait-out like 10 minutes for the other team to break both of your towers and then the core in obviously lop-sided games. Or perpetually being down 1-2 mechs in your alliance because at least one party is not piloting mechs/gathering CE or is grabbing an Oppressor to shoot rockets (meant for towers) at players the entire game. "Battle High is broken:" Enjoy dealing with Soaring; it never goes away even if you kill them... Just to name a few.

Astralagos was removed because it was deemed "too large" by the devs; you spent way too much time actually mounting up and running to locations than actually participating. This is reflected in Hidden Gorge being more compact compared to it. Also it's middle area was incredibly flawed in that whoever controlled it steadily increased their entire teams' CE amount which snowballed into that team cranking out those mechs way faster than the other team. And I didn't forget how incredibly broken it was to plant a few healers on it and all they had to do was indefinitely stay alive and tag anyone trying to interact with the switch to cancel their attempts. If you didn't control the middle area or were actively in the process of storming it, you were almost guaranteed to lose. Hidden Gorge now has a periodic resource dump in mid, and a Goblin mercenary instead. The devs got rid of Astralagos to seemingly deal with these imbalances first, but like the way of squadrons and Egi glamours, they probably just want to forget about it instead.

The community keeps RW alive and I don't see the problem with that.

When the big community is announcing their events then the queue is shorter then Frontlines and you have more people who want to play and win that game mode.

I like the state of it, I don't want to play it every day and hardcore grind it. It is fun to play a few rounds at the weekend.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

The devs got rid of Astralagos to seemingly deal with these imbalances first, but like the way of squadrons and Egi glamours, they probably just want to forget about it instead.

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Funny that you mention squadrons. I've been grinding out command missions on mine to get my alt up to captain rank and while their AI leaves a fair bit to be desired (getting the PGL to actually start attacking something is like trying to herd cats), it's hilarious how they deal *way* more damage than any duty support characters do. A command squadron can clear a double pull in like 10-12 sec while I swear a trust group takes twice that long. Probably because the squadmates have actual stats and deal "real" damage, meanwhile trusts deal damage that's completely proportional to player DPS - the more DPS the player does, the less DPS the trusts do, and it's constantly adjusting.

Add GC squadrons to the list of "content that was abandoned but should have been touched up and reintegrated," I guess.

Swap out daily Frontlines with Rival Wings with the same reward structures, and then go back to Frontlines at a determined time.

Yes everyone will be bad at RW at the start because they never got to play it. The community will eventually learn how to brain the mode over time. We just need a chance to obviously.

I think its a good refresher to doing dailies.

It's kind of absurd this week: Rival Wings is a box on Wondrous Tails, but Rival Wings isn't even an option in the duty finder. In the past it was a never ending queue, but now it's just gone.

it's in the pvp tab where it's always been, what're you even on about?