This is just me venting and no this is not baiting, I am just getting frustrated with how the lack of gear drops on the current tier have gone for me so far... Yes, I'm frustrated with getting only 1 book a week and no loot drops from clearing savage content, give us a 2nd book if we don't get a loot drop at least to keep players in pace with others who are getting loot drops. for me it's for the last 2 months: "sorry you don't get a drop for this fight for the week..here, have a single book for your hard work and come back next week" then next week rolls around.... "sorry you don't get a drop for this fight for the week..here, have a single book for your hard work and come back next week" It's just frustrating when you do all this work and folks around you are getting gear and your getting books...3 times I got between a 95-98 and lost to a roll of 99 3 times to folks with BIS gear...I am just getting peeved at how the rewards for the time and hard work I put in are not equal to the rewards I am receiving.
keeping pace with savage raid gearing.
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11-30-2022, 07:53 AMOldschoolegamer38keeping pace with savage raid gearing.
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11-30-2022, 08:12 AMDeveryn
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11-30-2022, 08:28 AMOldschoolegamer38
I have thank you for telling me.
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11-30-2022, 02:30 PMJeeqbitI've always been able to fully gear my main and then get loot for alts, without even taking books into account. I also run an alt that has always got extra loot for no reason since I only play one job on it. I'm one of the last in line for loot when I'm in a static, yet I'm still able to get loot for alts. I think you just need to raid for more weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldschoolegamer38
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11-30-2022, 05:49 PMForteNightshadeKey word being static. In PF, you're entirely at the mercy of RNG. While you may get everything you need within a month. Someone else may go three months barely winning anything. Which is the inherent problem with the current loot system. It's downright dreadful for PF. Without some luck, you could literally go the entire patch length only ever gearing a single job. Hence why a lot of people simply stop bothering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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11-30-2022, 07:29 PMJokerz_93
TBH, you dont need to keep pace with the savage.
You can try your luck in PF but imho it's a waste of time and energies (and mental sanity).
The .4 patch will release the new crafted gear, better than savage one so if you want an advise from a fellow PF raider...dont bother too much.
There is only one (1) content worth of that gear and if you dont have a static I find hard for you to run it within the lunch...i'm talking about the new ultimate.
And still after a couple of months you will be able to run that last ultimate with the new tomestone/savage gear so, again gearing in FFXIV is pointless, imho.
If I were you, I'd kill once and save money for other stuffs, this game doesn't deserve the vets support anymore, imho, nor SE wants to.
Being in a static....you may be stucked to pay a worthless sub for an half our per week if you have already cleared all the floors (like I have >.<)...so again, dont bother about the loot.
Literally it's not worth your time. -
11-30-2022, 08:47 PMThaCa
Playing without Static seems like bad time unless you are really lucky.
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11-30-2022, 11:30 PMdspguy
Savage loot system is fine the way it is. We are talking about raids that you can do on your own schedule, that are instanced (not a world spawn) that have guaranteed drops (books, upgrade tokens, gear) that is spread out among only 8 players.
MMOs used to have timed spawns, that were world contested and often only dropped a tiny portion of their loot table that were spread out to dozens of players.
I'd either get with a static so the loot is RNG goes from "I might never get my drop" to "I'll only need to run this 8 times maximum." -
12-01-2022, 12:39 AMXaphire
The roll RNG is why I won't raid if outside of a static group.
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12-01-2022, 03:24 AMJeeqbitNo, I clearly mentioned an alt and that I had done tiers without a static and had plenty of loot then too. I think OP just hasn't been clearing for many weeks yet and just doesn't want to do the necessary amount of reclears.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
The loot was nerfed a lot this tier as well. Boots drop from both P6S and P7S. The amount of books they cost was reduced. -
12-01-2022, 05:04 AMRaoabolic
I assumed people do savage for the challenge. Getting this stressed over a 25 ilvl difference when you can just buy 610 gear and call it a day is confusing.
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12-01-2022, 06:21 AMReinhaI suspect it is the case as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
A little maths. On week 14 people can have 9 loot items (brine, twine, shine, abyssos gear) from books alone from p5s-p7s. One could have also gotten 2 ultralight tomestones with normal mode raid weapon tokens and also causality tome gear. This is what everyone has access to without any luck involved.
The expected amount of loot drops (ultralight tomestone, brine, twine, shine, abyssos gear) would be
p5s: 14 x 3/8 = 5.25
p6s: 14 x 4/8 = 7
p7s: 14 x 4/8 = 7
total: 19.25 drops on average
total with tokens: 19.25 + 2 + 9 = 30.25 items on average
I have 30 loot items divided between RPR (630), SGE (625) and DNC (625). That is an average amount of loot, so half of the raiders who have been clearing these bosses should have more gear than I do. Yet almost no parties are asking more than 620 item level for savage or criterion, which means I'm more than sufficiently geared on all 3 jobs. Without getting any loot from p8s as well.
To say that it's hard to gear up or play alts is just not true, as long as you keep playing the game instead of quitting when it's quiet. I suspect the latter is why there are so many complaints about gear. They want it instantly, so they can drop their sub and go play another game. -
12-01-2022, 02:59 PMAravell
You guys say OP doesn't raid enough and you guys say you have more than enough loot, well, average for P5, 6 and 7 would be 30 items, yes? I cleared P5, 6 and 7 week 1, cleared P8 week 3, recleared every single week after that without missing once. By the average, I should have more than 30, yes? I have 24 items, that's way below average.
Didn't raid enough? Give me a break. If there's an average, there has to be a below average, but the unlucky people don't matter, yes? You guys got yours. -
12-01-2022, 06:41 PMDixieBellOCE8 weeks to get BiS from p5-7 felt terrible, i doubt ill ever main healer again for a tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
I got nothing for the first 7 weeks except book purchases.
I'd be happy with more options to obtain gear outside of the weekly tomestone cap and savage clears. Hell just delete the tome cap after the first 4 weeks when the hardcore players have cleared and let me take budget non-BiS peices just to up my HP to make relcears smoother. -
12-01-2022, 06:53 PMcaffe_macchiato
Many people have said that FFXIV does not have a treadmill. You can buy gear from the marketboard and clear all savages at ilevel 610. Is that no longer true? One of the many benefits of FFXIV is that there is “no grind” that “forces” you to play, unlike a certain other dragon-themed MMO. Yoshida “respects our time” by limiting drops so that no one is overpowered. You can instead focus your time on social aspects of the game or by playing other games, which many laud as a strong point for FFXIV.
And yet in this thread, I’m hearing that there is, in fact; a treadmill, and you have to clear savage for ALL of your required weeks. Otherwise, the following is said:
Why is the OP being blamed for not “grinding” enough? What game is this? I hope other raiders can clear the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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12-01-2022, 07:00 PMSaraideI'd be down to loosening the tome cap earlier on, aswell as loosing the weekly loot lockout. By that time the people dedicated to clearing with only crafted gear are done already and everyone else has already gotten some gear anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
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12-01-2022, 09:48 PMJokerz_93Sorry if I ask, but do you really run hardcore endgame contents?Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy
From what I can see, you don't.
Gearing in this game is pointless.
Better do savages for the challenge rather than to obtain a BiS that will be obsolete after 6.4 release.
Also, everyone try to follow me:
Normal Mode vs Savage Mode.
Normal Mode is the easy mode where there is no need to cooperate.
No DPS check, we can only make one healer dps while everyone can /sit and watch.
No Tank responsability. Tanks can pop their stance and /sit with the party while healer do DPS.
We made our Monk tank P5n so not sure if tanks need their stance on.
Healing/mitigations check barely exists. While one healer do DPS the other can throw one heal once per AOE and /sit with others.
And, no mechanics. Just dodge here, dodge there.
At the end of the fight, 8 loots in total and only one per player.
The game is telling "You did well, everyone did well. You all deserve something. Oh, poor child. You didin't take what you wanted? Don't worry. You can leave without any loot and retry it. You are garantee to get something".
Now, savage mode.
DPS check, expecially in week one is tight as fuck (p7s/p8s are good examples). Everyone needs to dps, even healers.
Healings/mitigations check. Everyone needs to help healers during the fight with their: Reprisal/HoL/DM/Shaki/Faint/Addle/Samba/Tactician/Troubadoor (or whatever)/Barrier Magick/etc..
Tanks responsability: if one tank dies, the other one is preatty fucked most of the time and so the party. Buster swaps or share damage, mitigations plans. Move boss correctly (the easy responsability) and so on...
...and ofc the basics: mechanics. If one players dies during a major mechanic...it's wipe. 101 out 10.
Basically Savage mode is the mode where actually all players must to cooperate together to get the kill.
Rewards? One book per kill and 4 (1st/2nd and 3rd floor) and 3 (4th) loots and potentially one player can obtain everything.
So now, what the game is telling to you is: "Yay, you did it! Gratz, here a book! But now since I don't know how to keep you playing I've elaboreted a punitive RNG system only for you, dear PF raider, that will stuck you in the next 4 month with the illusion to get the loot you need, and when you'll get most of it...there will be the new 640 crafted gear and your efforts will be wasted! Happy raiding!"
Yep, defenitly the savage reward system is fine as it is. -
12-01-2022, 10:12 PMSaraideThere are two aspects at play here. One is longevity of content, SE doesnt want everyone to burn through the tier in a week and leave people coming in late in the dust. The other one getting raiders to stay subbed and spend money. These two aspects can not be seperated easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokerz_93
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12-01-2022, 10:17 PMLiam_HarperYou do first clears for the challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoabolic
Doing 10th reclears on a fight you know to death is usually for farming gear, testing new jobs or improving personal logs. (Yes, we can pretend logs are evil but they're actually a big reason Savage doesn't just die a month in). There's no challenge in bringing in your 610ilv alt for a free carry in a group of 630 mains and doing pitiful dps. Nor is it much fun.
There's no "stress" over it really. It's just not fun so people are giving feedback that it sucks. Let us BiS gear alts for a change of pace and we'll play the content for even longer. It's a mutually beneficial deal. -
12-02-2022, 01:40 AMReinhaYou don't have to clear savage every week to play the game and participate in endgame. There are long term grinds available, but all they offer are cosmetic and meaningless rewards, which BiS gear for alts falls under.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
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12-02-2022, 03:22 AMJeeqbitYou misunderstand what they mean then. It does not have a treadmill to begin raiding like WoW does because crafted gear is enough. But it does have a gear treadmill to max item level if you are interested in max item level and always has.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
Crafted gear is enough to do almost all content in the game except ultimates. The gear makes you more powerful, which is fun, but it's not really necessary to do things and that is probably what those people mean.
A game with a gear treadmill.Quote:
Why is the OP being blamed for not “grinding” enough? What game is this?
A lot of people don't clear that fast. There are still parties up progressing through it now. It would end the tier for them much too early.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraide
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12-02-2022, 05:58 AMRaikaiIt still has nothing to do with the fact that you're at the mercy of RNG as a PF raider. I spent exactly eight weeks without winning anything on P5S reclears trying to gear up a healer alt job. Of course, I can get there with the pity books, but it's a terribly disheartening process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
What we could have without disrupting the flow of statics too much is simply 2 different loot modes defined by the party leader: one as it is today and a second one that will keep people from getting multiple chests at the same time.
Of course, you'd still be facing RNG, but much less so when you know that at the very least the same person can't get every loot in the fight. -
12-02-2022, 10:20 PMdspguyI've raided from ARR to ShB. It was a pointless treadmill and I exited. However the savage loot system is mostly unchanged since SB. If anything, it has become more friendly to players (dropping slot coffers instead of "slot of fending").Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokerz_93
My earlier post still stands.
-You get to pick when you want to raid.
-You don't have to trek through some dangerous areas of the game to get to the raid mob. You click a button and the instance just pops.
-There's no competing against other raid groups for a shot at killing the mob.
-The barrier to entry into raiding is ridiculously low (look at how many players have cleared Normal mode - 37% of the playerbase has cleared normal. It isn't like we have to do anything difficult to gain access to it.
-There is no experience penalty for dying.
-There is essentially no gil penalty of dying.
There's nothing to lose. It isn't like you wipe on a boss, drop to level 89, have to run back to fetch your gear on your corpse... and all the while some other group has pulled the boss over your group. It isn't like you have to clear P5-7S every time you wipe on P8S.
If anything, from someone that has raided in MMOs for over 20 years, just because I haven't bothered with EW raiding doesn't mean my input has no value.
And frankly, when I read other posts here about players that "only" have 25 drops so far... is this their first MMO? Just because obtaining so many other items in this game is easy, doesn't mean savage gear should be as easy.
What's the value in it if it is easy to obtain? -
12-03-2022, 12:47 AMReinhaThat's a great idea for PF. Auto pass on loot when something drops in your inventory, like in normal mode. Then people can Need what they want the most and Greed the rest. Probably should have a separate roll for music and mounts though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikai
They could also add a "books only" mode where no gear or tokens drop at all and everyone gets 2 books instead of 1 book. It's slightly less loot overall but it would be great for those who hate RNG. It would also make it easier for parties where someone has already cleared that week. -
12-03-2022, 03:57 AMcaffe_macchiatoYep, and people are going to have to realize that FFXIV is an old-fashioned game built by one of the stalwart old-timers himself (Yoshida) for a similar audience.Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy
Except, one small problem…many people who are playing games these days are under 20. They do not care about tradition like we do. They have no loyalty to our systems. This game might die in the next couple of years and be the last of its kind. Then your 20 years of experience will be useless just like my years on Neopets. Would it be worth it? -
12-03-2022, 04:29 AMDrWho2010
is it worth it. was the last 10 years of your life "worth it"? treading into some deep sunken cost fallacy territory here. were you expecting to like make a profit out of having played the game for multiple years or something?
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12-03-2022, 06:36 AMdspguyGames can't just cater to the old school, first-gen MMO players. I've had the opportunity to go back and play those earlier generation MMOs. Sadly, I just can't do it. I don't have the time. But I will say... I felt that the rewards "felt better" when they were rare, hard-to-obtain, not guaranteed, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
As far as FFXIV goes , there really aren't many pieces of gear I have that I'm attached to. It isn't like I'm going to break out the Raid Drop Cuirass of Fending and think about the good times I had with 7+ other players, the struggles we had and the adversity we overcame while obtaining them. And that's ok. It winds up just being GC seal trash in the end. In other games, I would be able to make that association with gear I obtained with dozens of other players in attendance.
Even with how today's "hardcore" is still tailored for yesteryear's casuals, I can't be that hardcore player anymore. I'm glad FFXIV is the way it is. But we can still pine for the "good ol' days" of MMO's past. -
12-03-2022, 08:15 AMRaven2014I gotta ask, what with you and these kind of post that just seem trying to pitch "generations" against each others? In the other topic you seem to act like a young person trash talking the boomers, but here you're playing the part of someone old enough to remember the "old" day?Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
No disrespect, but ... you're coming across as someone who trying to pretend to know, without actually knowing that it looks like if you think FF14 is catering to the "old timers" in any shape or form.
The first generation of MMO actually weren't much different than the typical cash-grab super hardcore grinding Korean MMO. When WoW comes about, one of the reason it took the world by storm was because comparing to Everquest, Ultimate Online or Runescape, it was super-casual-friendly. It's far less punishing, far less grinding, and people love it for the fact reward come at faster pace. And guess what, the current iteration of FF14 is even more casual friendly than WoW at the time.
So saying FF14 is built for stalwart old-timers from 20 years ago is ... completely and utterly rubbish. -
12-03-2022, 10:22 AMLieri
On top of it all, I don't like how they make it so that if you do the higher floor first during reclear, you won't get any loot from the previous floors.
It looks very outdated. The instances are separate and yet they interfere with each other. -
12-03-2022, 10:26 AMDeverynThat's how raids used to be in other games. You would have to go through a series of bosses. They are separate for the sake of convenience, nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieri
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12-03-2022, 10:46 AMPirateRyanGJust as a note, WOW no longer has that gear treadmill. Well, not quite as bad as it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Crafted gear is better than dungeon gear. It isn't meant to be a stop-gap. It genuinely is better than dungeon gear.
The new expansion has been designed to make crafting much, much more relevant. It is just a grind to get those recipes as a crafter. -
12-03-2022, 12:12 PMJeeqbitNot yet, at least. People are being positive now, but they've been that way before. Maybe when it's been a while I'll use past tense.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateRyanG