DRG getting rework

I know that there is not a lot of DRG mains anymore (I never see other DRG) but for those who are still active on this job like me. Am I the only one that is worried for DRG rework in 7.0? I don't even know why it's getting rework at all the gameplay is still solid (even tho ngl I miss the blue aura and the Dragon tether) it do the work fine , it's really versatile, the buff are good. It's the only DPS that make my blood boil and give me a thrill

I don't know what they are going to change but I am worried that they make DRG a RPR clone. I joined the game at the end of Shadowbringer times so I never saw the OG DRG all I know is that it was quite different maybe they will go back to it idk what do you guys think

Yes, i'm also worried for the pld rework after what they did to summoner
drg is what i would say a perfect job atm, i do understand that means it's impossible to add onto it now, but if they just prune stuff for the sake of pruning that is pointless and ruins jobs.
i am very concerned due to recent changes.

You're not the only one that's worried. Most people who are interested in this subject aren't expecting the rework to be good, because DRG is amazing at the moment and therefore it's difficult to see how a change could be good.

You mentioned a RPR clone and I think it is a good prediction that they will make it like that, because they made MNK a lot like SAM in the rework.

i as drg main am very worried SE is going to screw this rework up totally as others ahve said look what they did to "rework" other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Yes, i'm also worried for the pld rework after what they did to summoner
drg is what i would say a perfect job atm, i do understand that means it's impossible to add onto it now, but if they just prune stuff for the sake of pruning that is pointless and ruins jobs.
i am very concerned due to recent changes.

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I dont expect a big rework for pld like folks want to believe, considering how quickly its being rolled out compared to other reworks, in all likelihood its just going to be a rotation rework with same skills currently have, just to fit stuff more regularly in the 2min window, so prolly just a lot of cd and potency changes. But Drg being sladed for next expansion sounds like its up for major changes...

Y'all worry too much.

PLD is not likely to change that much. They've been working on it for a while now. All that's really left to do is change the melee rotation.

DRG isn't for another year. Relax and enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Latarma

i as drg main am very worried SE is going to screw this rework up totally as others ahve said look what they did to "rework" other jobs.

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Rework is like a fancy word to say "Hey Imma delete it because why not"

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Y'all worry too much.

PLD is not likely to change that much. They've been working on it for a while now. All that's really left to do is change the melee rotation.

DRG isn't for another year. Relax and enjoy.

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Yoshi-P has stated that the PLD rotation will fully change with patch 6.3, in the previous live letter. I wouldn't consider that to be "not changing much"

DRGs who enjoy the current iteration of the job absolutely should be worried about the 7.0 rework. Especially given SE's track record on job reworks.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Yoshi-P has stated that the PLD rotation will fully change with patch 6.3, in the previous live letter. I wouldn't consider that to be "not changing much"

DRGs who enjoy the current iteration of the job absolutely should be worried about the 7.0 rework. Especially given SE's track record on job reworks.

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Whatever. I'll wait and see what he says in December. DRG again have a full year. It was already delayed and changed due to feedback.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Whatever. I'll wait and see what he says in December. DRG again have a full year. It was already delayed and changed due to feedback.

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Why wait until December, he already said that the dev team is reworking pld's rotation. Not that hard to figure out my dude.

Want my honest opinion? Prepare for the class to be destroyed in 7.0. Enjoy it while it lasts because this is likely the last expansion that it'll be fun.

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Originally Posted by Restonance

Want my honest opinion? Prepare for the class to be destroyed in 7.0. Enjoy it while it lasts because this is likely the last expansion that it'll be fun.

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Thats what im expecting and prepared for with Ast.
I'm enjoying it fully now while preparing for the worst.
I also play DRG and it feels great to play.
If both these jobs get the same treatment as Sum and Mch and are boring as sh*t to play in 7.0 i'll just stop my sub.

In my honest opinion, DRG needs a rework asap. And not only cause they can't add anything to it anymore. DRG is one of the least picked jobs for a reason. DRG have a really clunky feel to it with all the party buffs and all the really low damage numbers overall. With the low damage numbers and no speed increase like the other jobs to me DRG just feels slow and boring, we get a finisher every like 60 seconds and that was it and sure there are the jumps but they are overall much weaker than what for example samurai can weave in every couple attacks while the jumps are on relatively high cooldowns.

I mean on paper DRG damage is, probably, awesome and they work but i think when we look at how many people actually pick dragoon one can tell that the job is far from being fun for most of the players.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

If both these jobs get the same treatment as Sum and Mch and are boring as sh*t to play in 7.0 i'll just stop my sub.

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If you look at the trajectory of job reworks so far there is a 90% chance of that happening. The fact that monk has been designed reasonably well looks more and more like an accident.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I mean on paper DRG damage is, probably, awesome and they work but i think when we look at how many people actually pick dragoon one can tell that the job is far from being fun for most of the players.

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And this is the reason why job design has been such a trainwreck since 2 expansions, because everything needs to be designed to "appeal to a wider audience".
It isn't enough that DrG mains enjoy the job a lot, it needs the be enjoyed by ALL THE PEOPLE.

What we then consequently end up with is this cookie cutter design template, the epitome of which is summoner that just mindlessly presses the same 3 buttons for 90% of it's gameplay but everything is fine because look, big flashy effects ooooh aaaaah.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

And this is the reason why job design has been such a trainwreck since 2 expansions, because everything needs to be designed to "appeal to a wider audience".
It isn't enough that DrG mains enjoy the job a lot, it needs the be enjoyed by ALL THE PEOPLE.

What we then consequently end up with is this cookie cutter design template, the epitome of which is summoner that just mindlessly presses the same 3 buttons for 90% of it's gameplay but everything is fine because look, big flashy effects ooooh aaaaah.

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DRG is the most straightforward melee DPS in the game other than Reaper, the most difficult part is the hassle that's switching targets for Dragon Sight. And that's not the fun kind of difficult, that's just a nuisance that you solve with a macro.

DRG is one of the easiest classes in the game, right now. It is one of the most flashy jobs. It is one of the most visually iconic jobs. It is one of the jobs designed with mass appeal in mind.

If you are defending current Dragoon, you are PRO cookie cutter designs.

I hope they remove dragonsite. I have never liked that skill. It is single handily the only reason I do not play the job.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I hope they remove dragonsite. I have never liked that skill. It is single handily the only reason I do not play the job.

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+1
Ideally I'd convert it to a toggleable dance partner icon that gives dragonsights effects upon using battle litany (since their both damage buffs already).

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

DRG is one of the least picked jobs for a reason.

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I think it is a combination of there being a lot of other (or easier) jobs to play and also because to a new player, the initial appeal of DRG from the Heavensward trailer gets shaken away as they get overwhelmed with all of these abilities. Then it goes back to what I said about there being easier jobs. Easier jobs are statistically the most popular in normal content. Why switch to DRG to help a friend with a roulette when you can turn your brain off more with a SMN?

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DRG have a really clunky feel to it with all the party buffs

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I agree with this point and it actually had this same problem in Heavensward. They reduced the number of buffs and then started adding more, resulting in the same problem now. I suppose I don't care about Dragon Sight.

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and all the really low damage numbers overall.

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Easy to fix without an overhaul.

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no speed increase like the other jobs to me DRG just feels slow and boring

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It doesn't have a speed increase, and that did make it boring at lower levels, but as we got loads of abilities to weave, it had the effect of making it faster and made it a lot more fun to play.

The top ways they increase speed is to speed up the GCD or add lots of abilities. Bards do a mixture of these depending on the song. There's nothing wrong with the DRG approach of using abilities instead.

I'm excited about the DRG rework, I was gonna add it back to my roster of jobs I use but decided I'll wait till 7.0 before making that choice since it'll be getting a rework.

I hope it gets some kind of dragon pet in it's moveset, either like how SMN/SCH pet system was or like how MCH/DRK use their pet like figure as part of a move u hit and the pet appears, like MCH robot or DRK Shadow.

It'd be cool to have a dragon pet that heals us or debuffs enemies and does damage or all 3.

And it'd be cool if we get to turn into a dragon at some point during building up eboufj resources or some other way, like how reaper avatar form is.

Not a DRG main. But whenever I pick it up for something casual like daily roulettes, alliance raid, or normal raids, I know I’m going to enjoy it for following reasons:
• Basic rotation are flashy enough with a neat DoT timer attached. Feels great to refresh it just as it falls off.
• Delaying Life of the Dragon successfully feels very satisfying & rewarding.
• Dragon Sight! Yeah it’s just a buff, but it’s not your generic ‘press to AoE buff party’ or self buff like Lance Charge.
• Line-shaped AoEs. Finally, something that’s just not another circle!

Really hope they will not "rework" the jobs that works well now. Just fix the ones people asking to be .

I wonder why they think DRG needs a major rework in the first place? Are they worried about button bloat coming to a head in 7.0?

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I hope they remove dragonsite. I have never liked that skill. It is single handily the only reason I do not play the job.

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They could fix it instantly by giving it the Dance Partner treatment and letting you just pick a DS target ahead of time.

If there is no room to expand the rotation, maybe we have just hit a point where we can't expand rotations without turning the lower level rotations into hardly anything or using the trait upgrade system.

Maybe that means we should reconsider expanding the level cap, or for the next expansion, create a separate world like Eureka where you start from level 1 and in this world and any of its dungeons and raids, you have a completely new rotation.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Yes, i'm also worried for the pld rework after what they did to summoner
drg is what i would say a perfect job atm, i do understand that means it's impossible to add onto it now, but if they just prune stuff for the sake of pruning that is pointless and ruins jobs.
i am very concerned due to recent changes.

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It's not perfect, there are some things they could definitely tighten up.

Like a lot of other skills, if something is the pre-req for another skill that other skill could just be the original button changed.

They already do this with certain other actions (Geirskogul changing into Nastrond) but not others.

• Wheeling Thrust: Can only be executed while under the effect of Wheel in Motion, granted by Chaotic Spring.
  Update: Make Chaotic Spring icon change to Wheeling Thrust upon execution
  
• Fang and Claw: Can only be executed while under the effect of Fang and Claw Bared, granted by Heavens' Thrust.
  Update: Make Heaven's Thrust icon change to Fang and Claw upon execution
  
• Mirage Dive: Can only be executed when Dive Ready. What causes Dive Ready? Only a single skill: Jump/High Jump
  Update: Jump/High Jump changes to Mirage dive after execution.

Three buttons that don't need to exist and do nothing but cause button bloat.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

And this is the reason why job design has been such a trainwreck since 2 expansions, because everything needs to be designed to "appeal to a wider audience".
It isn't enough that DrG mains enjoy the job a lot, it needs the be enjoyed by ALL THE PEOPLE.

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You can't expand a job playerbase without enticing non DRG players. If you don't, existing players eventually leave and no one replaces them.

The same goes for any other job.

The problem is, the FFXIV devs have forgotten one of their basic tenets:

If it's not fun, what's the point?

https://i.imgur.com/yNA6HyQ.png

A lot of jobs simply aren't fun anymore.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Yes, i'm also worried for the pld rework after what they did to summoner
drg is what i would say a perfect job atm, i do understand that means it's impossible to add onto it now, but if they just prune stuff for the sake of pruning that is pointless and ruins jobs.
i am very concerned due to recent changes.

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It would be nice for people to stop using summoner as a comparison point. :rolleyes: No other class ever attempted to function the same way it did, so you're not going to see such a drastic change.

Did Yoshi not say in the live letter that Ast and Drg rework would be similar how they did the rework on the monk. they did talk about a little when they announce the delay until 7.0

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

Did Yoshi not say in the live letter that Ast and Drg rework would be similar how they did the rework on the monk. they did talk about a little when they announce the delay until 7.0

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If it is like MNK then it makes it even more likely DRG will be like RPR.

While I got off the dragoon train back in shb (because it got nothing. Its literally just 30-50 again but with some of the levels swapped around and in ew it got wyrmwind. thats it) I am still disappointed to see my former secondary job be put on notice for execution

I want to look forward to the rework I truly do. But devs are insistent on having braindead accessible, puddle deep homogenous crap instead of jobs and as of this writing show no signs of returning to the style of hw/sb job design.
The devs have a track record of making jobs worse every rework and ain't about to change that.

I sincerely hope they proved me wrong.

I get that people miss how some of these jobs used to function, but the fact is a lot of people don't and it was never going to get people to come play this game the way they do now. We wouldn't be having any conversations about servers being added, but more doom and gloom about servers being removed. Just because it felt smarter doesn't mean it was actually good.

Been saying these devs excel @everything besides job/class development.....and the fact more people are worried as opposed to encouraged by a job "Fix" is telling.

Back in XI, when a job "rework" was announced, the community rejoiced.

Happy (Or sad...) for DRGs who may (or may not) get their favorite job adjusted for the best (Or worst).

Now do BLU......Just make it able to do the main scenario. We don't need you fuc....errr....screwing it u...errr...fixing it.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I want to look forward to the rework I truly do. But devs are insistent on having braindead accessible, puddle deep homogenous crap instead of jobs and as of this writing show no signs of returning to the style of hw/sb job design.
The devs have a track record of making jobs worse every rework and ain't about to change that.

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It's one thing to want them to be less braindead or homogeneous. Those arguments are fair to make.

But I don't think HW is the answer. There were a lot of problems with HW job design as well. Clunky abilities like Power Surge that buffed another ability, clunky GCDs like Heavy Thrust that would work better like RPR's, useless abilities (do you remember DRG had an ability called Keen Flurry that made them Parry?), opener bloat similar to the problem now where you would probably Blood of the Dragon + Battle Litany + Blood for Blood + Power Surge and of course you are wanting to fit in your other abilities shortly after such as Jump + Spineshatter Dive + Dragonfire Dive + Life Surge.

A job can be varied and sophisticated and versatile without necessarily just copying HW which had significant issues like this.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's not perfect, there are some things they could definitely tighten up.

Like a lot of other skills, if something is the pre-req for another skill that other skill could just be the original button changed.

They already do this with certain other actions (Geirskogul changing into Nastrond) but not others.

• Wheeling Thrust: Can only be executed while under the effect of Wheel in Motion, granted by Chaotic Spring.
  Update: Make Chaotic Spring icon change to Wheeling Thrust upon execution
  
• Fang and Claw: Can only be executed while under the effect of Fang and Claw Bared, granted by Heavens' Thrust.
  Update: Make Heaven's Thrust icon change to Fang and Claw upon execution
  
• Mirage Dive: Can only be executed when Dive Ready. What causes Dive Ready? Only a single skill: Jump/High Jump
  Update: Jump/High Jump changes to Mirage dive after execution.

Three buttons that don't need to exist and do nothing but cause button bloat.



You can't expand a job playerbase without enticing non DRG players. If you don't, existing players eventually leave and no one replaces them.

The same goes for any other job.

The problem is, the FFXIV devs have forgotten one of their basic tenets:

If it's not fun, what's the point?

https://i.imgur.com/yNA6HyQ.png

A lot of jobs simply aren't fun anymore.

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I find having lots of buttons to press fun
button bloat is only a problem IMO with stuff like samurai, why does there need to be aoe shoa, aoe guren? this game has very very rare instances where you choose aoe or single target, beyond dungeons. (and yet they removed kaiten instead lol)
The reason drg is impossible to add onto now isn't because of how many buttons it has, it's because its rotation is at its limit, unless they give drg a gcd increase skill they can't add onto it anymore without changing it fundamentally

There are times where doing what you suggest is good, e.g gunbreakers gnashing fang combo being merged so they could add an extra skill in endwalker, but if it's merged without adding anything thats pointless imo

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Yes, i'm also worried for the pld rework after what they did to summoner

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I believe at someone point EVERY classes will receive the SMN treatment. And that's not because SE is clueless or just want to be busy body. It's because it's a necessity if you want to "regrowth" the class meaningfully for the next 10 years. Ironically, DRG is the perfect example of that.

It's already almost "perfect" right now, what you gonna do to it?

- Pretty much anything else added to it will make it bloat.
- Even if you manage to carefully trim some trivial thing to add some other trivial things, that'll just gonna bandaid thing and you'll have the exact same problem in another expansion.
- Keep the class largely unchanged? Well, they can do that if they plan the next expansion to be the last, but not if it plans to run for another decade.

I know people don't like the SMN change, but I don't mind it. I view it as a necessity evil. It is because SMN is so simple and bare-bone now, it can be freely developed and grow without constraint. And as a bonus now SMN has a track that looks like actual SMN instead of a WoW's Warlock.

Lol I guess changes only matter when they come for DPS. (strawmanning kinda ; ) )

DRK & AST have been dead for years and everything in general has been homogenized. I hope they take out everyone's favorite classes with these reworks so everyone can feel the pain!

The funny thing about MMO players is that the only thing that they hate more than the game they play is that game ever changing in any way.

I'm just hoping the devs only condense certain skills and abilities together so as to leave room for more ways the job can continue gaining new things.

That and I'm not sure how other people feel about it, but Dragoon can probably do without Piercing Talon. Dragoon is the Jumping class, so just letting it use High Jump in place of Piercing Talon, or even upgrading Piercing Talon to Jump would be a nice way of shaving off one skill. Just make Jump/High Jump a useable skill at any given time.

Also, Lance Charge and either Battle Litany or Dragon's Sight should just be made into one button. My only gripe with Dragoon is how Lance Charge is essentially the latter two moves, but with a one time only healing effect.