Would there be any harm in bringing limited jobs up to max level?

As usual I have to preface this with “not interested in debating if limited jobs should exist or not”. They’re here, deal with it.

But my question is, what would change if BLU (or any future limited job) was brought up to level 90 (or whatever the current level cap at the time is)? The level cap is not the only thing that determines if a job can do relevant content, they have the ability to lock limited jobs out of current raids, or any duty, just by flagging that duty as “no limited jobs” that they can then turn off down the line the same way they turn on unrestricted party down the line.

So is there any legitimate reason that these jobs can’t be at the max level? The only things I can think of are maps, FATEs and hunts which are all trivial anyway.

The reason I ask and would like them to be at max level is gear. It’s bad enough currently having to hold on to my level 80 caster set for when BLU finally makes the jump, but now I’m also holding on to all my melee and tank gear in anticipation for the potential for beastmaster to be added as a limited job (not knowing what type of gear it will use). If these jobs could just be brought up to level cap then we won’t need multiple sets just for limited jobs. And as it stands I see no reason it couldn’t be this way.

First off: Don't hold onto anything in anticipation of a job that may never show up. Whenever they announce it, you'll have plenty of time to gear up.

BLU at cap would more or less trivialize every other job in most situations.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

BLU at cap would more or less trivialize every other job in most situations.

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And what situations are those? That’s the point. FATEs, Who cares? Hunts, Who cares? Maps? Any job can solo a map. Other than those, there’s no relevant content a BLU could trivialise that they can’t lock them out of regardless of level.

It’s more that BLU can find ways to cheese content.

That is to say, right here and now, they need bodies doing the non-free to play content trials dungeons etc. Especially the later-game content.

If even a small percent find a way to do that content with BLU, that is less people to support new adventurers.

In addition, with certain loopholes, content tends to be much easier to do with competent bluemages (see Aurum Vale for moogle-tome grinding). Which again, once that becomes widely known certain groups wanting clears are encouraged to employ those party makeups, negating work done by devs to balance it for standard play. And since being good at BLU requires some build work/thinking/effort gathering skills you open a door wide open for toxicity (omgwtf you don’t have Final Sting!?)

Secondly, it’s just additional work for the devs to do- skills and such need to be done, and probably the carnival thing would need new stages or it’d feel half-arsed. If you’re just talking straight levels this can be hand waved, but without a doubt expect 4 new threads complaining about it day 1.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Maps? Any job can solo a map.

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I... don't think some jobs can do the maps solo. It's level synced and only BLU can do "easily" with Basic Instinct...

Even on outside of the portal, you can just use Ram and Ultravibration and the mobs died immediately :)

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

And what situations are those? That’s the point. FATEs, Who cares? Hunts, Who cares? Maps? Any job can solo a map. Other than those, there’s no relevant content a BLU could trivialise that they can’t lock them out of regardless of level.

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What's the point of even having them at cap if they're going to be locked out of even more content? Why don't you go through all the stuff you left out? Dungeons, Trials, EX, Aliiance Raids, Normal Raids, Savage Raids.

I'll actually cover that last one. No one would even do a full group as the current tier. Who would ever go to a raid where 7 other people are rolling on the same piece, if it even drops?

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Originally Posted by kaynide

It’s more that BLU can find ways to cheese content.

That is to say, right here and now, they need bodies doing the non-free to play content trials dungeons etc. Especially the later-game content.

If even a small percent find a way to do that content with BLU, that is less people to support new adventurers.

In addition, with certain loopholes, content tends to be much easier to do with competent bluemages (see Aurum Vale for moogle-tome grinding). Which again, once that becomes widely known certain groups wanting clears are encouraged to employ those party makeups, negating work done by devs to balance it for standard play. And since being good at BLU requires some build work/thinking/effort gathering skills you open a door wide open for toxicity (omgwtf you don’t have Final Sting!?)

Secondly, it’s just additional work for the devs to do- skills and such need to be done, and probably the carnival thing would need new stages or it’d feel half-arsed. If you’re just talking straight levels this can be hand waved, but without a doubt expect 4 new threads complaining about it day 1.

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Not sure I understand what you’re getting at. People can already do and cheese old content as BLU, why would any of that apply to BLU at 90 but not BLU at 80?

For adding more spells and carnivale, as you said they could purely raise the level cap and not bother with spells and carnivale til later when they’re ready. Or they could do spells and carnivale for 80 and 90 in one sitting to get it over with now and then in the long term BLU will be in exactly the same spot it’s in now but when they update it in future they’ll be updating it to current level cap instead of the level cap below.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

I... don't think some jobs can do the maps solo. It's level synced and only BLU can do "easily" with Basic Instinct...

Even on outside of the portal, you can just use Ram and Ultravibration and the mobs died immediately :)

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That’s fair, skills like ultravibration that only effect enemies at or below the level of the BLU change the dynamic between how a BLU does current maps now and how they would do them if they were at max level cap. I still hold that open world maps are easy enough that you wouldn’t need to cheese it as a BLU and BLUs can’t enter portals which is where the important rewards are. But you do bring up a good point.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

What's the point of even having them at cap if they're going to be locked out of even more content? Why don't you go through all the stuff you left out? Dungeons, Trials, EX, Aliiance Raids, Normal Raids, Savage Raids.

I'll actually cover that last one. No one would even do a full group as the current tier. Who would ever go to a raid where 7 other people are rolling on the same piece, if it even drops?

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The reason is simple, not having to hold 2 sets of gear for jobs, it’s bad enough having to hold 2 casting sets (3 right now as we wait for it to raise to 80 so I’m holding 70 gear for BLU, 80 gear for when it raises and 90 gear for current jobs) and that will increase down the line as more limited jobs are added for different roles. If they were all at level cap that is no longer an issue and limited jobs can be locked out of current dungeons, trials and raids regardless of level.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

The reason is simple, not having to hold 2 sets of gear for jobs, it’s bad enough having to hold 2 casting sets (3 right now as we wait for it to raise to 80 so I’m holding 70 gear for BLU, 80 gear for when it raises and 90 gear for current jobs) and that will increase down the line as more limited jobs are added for different roles. If they were all at level cap that is no longer an issue and limited jobs can be locked out of current dungeons, trials and raids regardless of level.

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All that for a few armoury slots. I'm maxed out and every tab in my armoury is half full with current gear. Stop expecting them to add more limited jobs.

Maybe next time don't be so misleading with your intro. This whole thing is pointless and thoughtless. If they're going to be locked out of even doing dungeon content, it's not worth the extra work to catch them up. They're easier to manage when they're simply kept an expansion behind.

Another thing you're not considering is the different meld priorities BLU has, so if you were to do anything besides, you'd need more gear anyway. It's easier to just get the final BiS of the previous expansion.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Not sure I understand what you’re getting at. People can already do and cheese old content as BLU, why would any of that apply to BLU at 90 but not BLU at 80?

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I’ll bold it for you:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

It’s more that BLU can find ways to cheese content.

That is to say, right here and now, they need bodies doing the non-free to play content trials dungeons etc. Especially the later-game content.

If even a small percent find a way to do that content with BLU, that is less people to support new adventurers.

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It that is unclear, later game includes anything within the current expansion pack; that is to say 80+.

There be non. The devs are just don't want to do it. It a strange content

The answer is none. BLU breaks the mold on the scripted content Yoshi P puts out which is why they keep it 2 expansions behind.

BLU can play differently based on the situation whereas the other classes are boxed in to only really play one way.

As a result the 19 limited jobs are boring while BLU is versatile and exposes the combat system for what it really is.

The gatekeeping on PotD and Eureka is some funny ass shit considering some of BLU's BiS gear can only be obtained in Eureka.

Yes, the harm is allowing limited Jobs to even exist

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

That’s fair, skills like ultravibration that only effect enemies at or below the level of the BLU change the dynamic between how a BLU does current maps now and how they would do them if they were at max level cap. I still hold that open world maps are easy enough that you wouldn’t need to cheese it as a BLU and BLUs can’t enter portals which is where the important rewards are. But you do bring up a good point.

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What makes you think BLU can't enter map portals? They can. And that's what is referred to with BLU soloing maps with Basic Instinct. That skill only works in instanced content that would normally require a party, allowing BLU to solo instead. Map portals still require level syncing, so this gives BLU an advantage in soloing them. Some other jobs maybe technically can as well. Probably not all. But it's still more of a struggle.

More to the point of the topic, though, it's still content that needs creating. Spells to create and balance within the kit. Quests to write, Carnival challenges, achievements, etc. Hell, they're probably already looking at spells and wondering what more they can do without totally breaking the system. Another batch of oGCD primal spells and we'll be struggling to decide what's worth keeping slotted.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

The gatekeeping on PotD and Eureka is some funny ass shit considering some of BLU's BiS gear can only be obtained in Eureka.

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That gatekeeping still shouldn't exist. Eureka was practically made for BLU considering the elemental strength/weakness system and the sheer amount of possible BLU magic that could be locked in it. They could easily lock BLU out of the wheel and just have it use its own elemental skills and buffs (some of which would be learned in Eureka itself) to survive. PotD is rather irrelevant content in the grand scheme of things, and I don't think anybody would really care if somebody cleared it on a BLU.

I think the only real reason is because they don't have time to update BLU up to current level. They already ask us to wait for lvl 80 BLU, no way they can give us lvl 90 BLU.

As for the harm, I don't think it'll harm anything. Like you said, they can easily lock extreme and savage out from BLU.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

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I'd say the only reason they don't allow it is maybe they don't have quests written for it and abilities made. It is considered 'side content', I think. Maybe the people working on it feel that way too and get to it when permitted.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

...BLU at cap would more or less trivialize every other job in most situations.

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I'm honestly all for BLU being able to steam roll overworld, fates, etc. They could keep it out of current savage/extreme/unreal tiers and all ultimates and I'd be fine with that too. After a while, content kind of loses it's value and some measure of enjoyment can be reacquired by just stupid fun.

Unless BLU can break the game(which it doesn't) I really see no reason to exclude it from content that meets it's own level and ilvl requirements. It is more then capable of doing MSQ(primarily solo content anyway) and everything up to Stormblood at lvl 70.

Now if it broke the game as advertised and really was a solo job for all content I could see the reason for limitations.

I think they keep it as is so they don't have to balance their content they put out.

Their whole thing for 80 BLU of just wait a little longer when their last update was February 2nd 2021 and we are approaching the end of 2022 you are looking at almost 2 years of no updates on BLU. Even the potencies on their skills haven't been altered by the stat squish either. It's rather appalling they want you to wait 2 years or more for anything to happen.

How long is a little longer? 6.5? 7.0?

Some kind of roadmap would be nice. Or a statement of please wait a little longer and this is why instead of "Please understand small indie company. Island sanctuary glamour took all our resources."

The main reasons is dungeons and savage. Blu absolutely is the best DPS to bring in dungeons while the polar opposite is true in savage. And that's because how each is designed. Dungeons have mobs which aren't immune to everything and take a large portion of the run up. Savage is a boss immune to everything and are heavily scripted just so Blu isn't gonna break it.

Please understand small indie dev team. Island sanctuary took all of their resources.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

The main reasons is dungeons and savage. Blu absolutely is the best DPS to bring in dungeons while the polar opposite is true in savage. And that's because how each is designed. Dungeons have mobs which aren't immune to everything and take a large portion of the run up. Savage is a boss immune to everything and are heavily scripted just so Blu isn't gonna break it.

Please understand small indie dev team. Island sanctuary took all of their resources.

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BLU's DPS is absolutely amazing, regardless of the content. They don't even have an actual limit break, but deal enough DPS in the old savage they are allowed in that sync'd they can skip over half the fight. Once they added in Stormblood spells, BLU was capable of skipping Gavel in A8S, which no standard job comp could even dream of doing.

On top of that, regardless of role, any BLU can heal and tank better than any actual job in slotted in said role. White Wind and Diamondback are game changers.

But anyway, to answer OP - By raising BLU to the current level, they'd lose out on their easy out content lull stall. It's fairly likely they have 80 BLU spells ready to go, as well as 80 BLU quests, but they're saving them for a patch that's smaller than the rest to flesh out the patch. Part of limiting BLU is disguising it as its own content, which is half true. It will likely never catch up to current level for this reason alone.

They gate out of content intended for normal jobs like Eureka and in the future Bozja because it would trivialize many challenges within that content (and they'd have to revisit and add immunity tags for every special BLU spell to all of those NMs as well).

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Originally Posted by kaynide

It that is unclear, later game includes anything within the current expansion pack; that is to say 80+.

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BLU wouldn’t be able to do anything in the current expansion pack, that’s what I’m getting at. The game has a built in rule “limited jobs allowed: yes/no” into all its duties, this rule is completely separate from lvl/ilvl requirements (BLU meets the requirements for Bahamut ultimate, eureka and PoTD but can’t do them for example), the devs can flip that switch the same way they can change duties to be done as unrestricted parties.

In short, a BLU can be level 90 and still be locked out of 80+ content with the only exceptions being overworld content like FATEs/hunts/maps.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

What makes you think BLU can't enter map portals? They can.

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I more meant that they CAN lock BLU out of current level portals. Admittedly it’s an assumption on my part that they’d be able to lock them out of current portals without locking them out of all portals, but I would imagine since the different levels of map use different instances in their portals they likely have their own rules.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

But anyway, to answer OP - By raising BLU to the current level, they'd lose out on their easy out content lull stall. It's fairly likely they have 80 BLU spells ready to go, as well as 80 BLU quests, but they're saving them for a patch that's smaller than the rest to flesh out the patch. Part of limiting BLU is disguising it as its own content, which is half true. It will likely never catch up to current level for this reason alone.

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They can keep their content lull strat, but instead of, BLU going from 70 to 80 late in the expansion it could go from 80 to 90 (as a theoretical example, obviously for the current expansion they would have to do the extra work putting it from 70 to 90, but in the long term it would then just make the 10 level jump to current expansion cap late in the expansion).