[Question] Lootmaster etiquette sanity check

Tonight was my (problem-riddled, unhappy) static's final night of reclears and I need a sanity check that what our lootmaster did with the loot was not okay.

Lootmaster won her BiS weapon on our second reclears. Everyone else had to open a coffer, leaving us with one spare weapon coffer on week 8. Every other non-BiS coffer from P5/6/7S was made Greed only - but she insisted this weapon coffer belonged to her. It seemed obvious to me the coffer should be FFA, since it wasn't BiS for anyone - everyone was already BiS.

She then simply gave it to herself and didn't let anyone else roll on it, citing a previously nonexistent rule that "everyone's supposed to get a coffer, and my weapon was a direct drop so it doesn't count."

Am I crazy, or is the general expectation that everyone in a static gets their BiS weapon, regardless of what form it drops in, not a weapon coffer? Everyone I've asked seems to agree that was a scummy thing to do, but she and her boyfriend in the static kept insisting it was right.

There's also incidents of her engineering our loot plan to give herself the chest coffer on week 3 or so of reclears and also just taking a BRD weapon drop for herself because "she had said she wanted it," but those seem more like grey areas than this.

...exhibit one on why you never join a group with a lootmaster.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

Am I crazy, or is the general expectation that everyone in a static gets their BiS weapon, regardless of what form it drops in, not a weapon coffer? Everyone I've asked seems to agree that was a scummy thing to do, but she and her boyfriend in the static kept insisting it was right.

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I cannot speak to anything else regarding your static's drama, and I definitely think that there is the distinct possibility that things might have been done out of spite rather than rule of fairness in the first place. On principle though, personally I'm not against the idea of taking a coffer even if RNG offered you your weapon outright; unless the weapon drops themselves were likewise meted out on a week-by-week basis, there's a high chance people have been scooping up the weapon drops alongside their coffers along the way as well, and with that in mind I see no reason not to allow the opposite to happen.

Obviously there's a ton about and around this situation that changes things. I don't know if the person in question picked up any other off-weapons from the weapon drop, or if the coffer and weapon drop were the first two they'd ever grabbed. I'm also not able to say one way or another whether aggravation and static drama affected tempers and decisions.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

she and her boyfriend in the static

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Always trouble.

No, that ain't cool. The rule is also if your job's weapon drops, you get first dibs, the coffer is a free for all on the first clear. Her and the boyfriend are breaking rules in her favor. My suggestion to you would probably be to walk out of that static, it's not worth being in if they're like this. Also, try to get others to leave as well, because from the way it feels she's going to get full BiS and then disband the group, leaving the rest of you out in the cold.

I respect her hustle, but you really should bail. Should have bailed long ago. Maybe a majority of you all could find a way to kick and replace replace the lootmaster.

Basically you all are suckers. Don't let it keep happening.

There are 8 reclears and 8 coffers. One per player. Just how there are 8 chest pieces. Random weapons are a bonus. I see no problem with what happened.

My group treats coffers and weapon drops separately.

If a weapon drops for someone, they are not losing access to the coffer in the span of 8 clears. An argument can be made that early on you should spread the loot for damage checks (Abyssos definitely had us work in order of who gains the most out of their current weapon upgrade), but otherwise I think it is fair game if everyone receives 1 coffer, regardless if they already had their BiS weapon drop.

Never join a static with a couple as the leaders. It always goes wrong believe me..
Also why does your static needs lootmaster? That implies there is no trust which doesn't make for a good static..

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Never join a static with a couple as the leaders. It always goes wrong believe me..
Also why does your static needs lootmaster? That implies there is no trust which doesn't make for a good static..

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Lootmaster is a good setting to ensure no loot goes to the floor imo. Has saved my group various loot otherwise lost to us.

Also trust goes both ways. Why bother if you can't trust the lootmaster, ya know.

This is all about setting expectations correctly. There is no inherent problem with deciding to go 1 coffer per player, no matter which weapons drop. Some people may be fine with it, some wont. The important thing is to talk about it in advance and this is apperently where your group leader failed.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Lootmaster is a good setting to ensure no loot goes to the floor imo. Has saved my group various loot otherwise lost to us.

Also trust goes both ways. Why bother if you can't trust the lootmaster, ya know.

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My static just talks about it.
Greed to not let it anything drop to the floor, need if you want it for a job you play, ask if someone else wants it too.
We keep track of the needs so greedy people don't roll everything every week(been there done that)
If my static would need to lootmaster because of a greedy individual we would get rid of that person instead.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

There are 8 reclears and 8 coffers. One per player. Just how there are 8 chest pieces. Random weapons are a bonus. I see no problem with what happened.

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This logic fundamentally makes no sense to me.

You have good RNG and get your BiS weapon early. Why does that entitle you to a second guaranteed weapon while everyone else only deserves one?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is all about setting expectations correctly. There is no inherent problem with deciding to go 1 coffer per player, no matter which weapons drop. Some people may be fine with it, some wont. The important thing is to talk about it in advance and this is apperently where your group leader failed.

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Yes, I agree. We had no such agreement; the party lead came up with this 5 minutes after clearing P7S for the last time. We previously had always adhered to "all non-BiS is FFA/Greed only."

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Originally Posted by san-toki

This logic fundamentally makes no sense to me.

You have good RNG and get your BiS weapon early. Why does that entitle you to a second guaranteed weapon while everyone else only deserves one?

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Two things:

What does your group intend to do with direct weapon drops that dont fit any of your main jobs?

It does entitle you to a second guaranteed weapon if that is agreed upon. It's the group leader's duty and responsibility to avoid confrontations like the one you are facing by solving them beforehand. You can also help an inexperienced group leader by bringing this question up before it becomes conflict material.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

There is no inherent problem with deciding to go 1 coffer per player, no matter which weapons drop.

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It incentivizes people to not open their weapon coffer, making reclears harder.

The group is over, but we had a priority system set up for alt drops, ie each player indicated which job they'd like to play most outside of static. Funnily, the party lead is the only one whose preferred weapon dropped, and she also made up a rule on-the-fly once she saw it had dropped that she would just lootmaster it to herself instead of letting others roll on it. That one seemed somewhat fairer, because I'm a fan of weapons going to people who will actually use them, but it similarly sketched me out that this rule didn't exist until she saw her own weapon drop.

I've been passing everything I don't feel strongly about, so I'm not necessarily salty about the loot, but it feels very wrong to me that the person who has had the best luck has also been manipulating rules to suit her to give herself even more, while very thinly falling within the realm of reasonableness. None of these "rules" were ever mentioned until the moment she saw they would benefit her.

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Originally Posted by Chooty

It incentivizes people to not open their weapon coffer, making reclears harder.

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That can also be talked about, either allowing it or disallowing it. Reclears do not become harder, they just dont become easier through a stronger weapon.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

The group is over, but we had a priority system set up for alt drops, ie each player indicated which job they'd like to play most outside of static. Funnily, the party lead is the only one whose preferred weapon dropped, and she also made up a rule on-the-fly once she saw it had dropped that she would just lootmaster it to herself instead of letting others roll on it. That one seemed somewhat fairer, because I'm a fan of weapons going to people who will actually use them, but it similarly sketched me out that this rule didn't exist until she saw her own weapon drop.

I've been passing everything I don't feel strongly about, so I'm not necessarily salty about the loot, but it feels very wrong to me that the person who has had the best luck has also been manipulating rules to suit her to give herself even more, while very thinly falling within the realm of reasonableness. None of these "rules" were ever mentioned until the moment she saw they would benefit her.

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Then you had a bad party leader.

One thing I'd like to say to the Lootmaster conversation as someone who has lead and co-lead statics.

Being professional is difficult as a static leader, especially if you have limited or no experience, yet don't want to rely on another group fitting for you. I generally give people benefit of the doubt when being new to raid leading, because there is a lot of things to consider depending on what kind of group you want to create.

The biggest problem in general is communication and the sub-problem of people not being honest about their thoughts and ideas. A lot of things can be pre-planned nicely, but if you procrastinate with it you will end up in situations like many of you described where rules are made up on the fly rather than discussed early.

It is prudent to have an online loot sheet and actually reach an agreement to how loot is distributed with nothing left to interpretation.

I encourage both members and leaders alike to reach out to each other if things are unclear. That way if someone ACTUALLY walks out of line you have a clearer case.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

One thing I'd like to say to the Lootmaster conversation as someone who has lead and co-lead statics.

Being professional is difficult as a static leader, especially if you have limited or no experience, yet don't want to rely on another group fitting for you. I generally give people benefit of the doubt when being new to raid leading, because there is a lot of things to consider depending on what kind of group you want to create.

The biggest problem in general is communication and the sub-problem of people not being honest about their thoughts and ideas. A lot of things can be pre-planned nicely, but if you procrastinate with it you will end up in situations like many of you described where rules are made up on the fly rather than discussed early.

It is prudent to have an online loot sheet and actually reach an agreement to how loot is distributed with nothing left to interpretation.

I encourage both members and leaders alike to reach out to each other if things are unclear. That way if someone ACTUALLY walks out of line you have a clearer case.

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Well said. I would like to add to that that actually writing down rules in an easily reachable place (like a seperate discord channel for example) can help your group a lot. Clarity and honesty are key to any healthy group dynamic. As always, every mistake can be used as a learning experience.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

There are 8 reclears and 8 coffers. One per player. Just how there are 8 chest pieces. Random weapons are a bonus. I see no problem with what happened.

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Agreed - this is how groups I've been in have run it even without lootmaster. I assume other players all also got off-job weapons through out. The player whose weapon actually dropped shouldn't be excluded from also getting a guaranteed weapon. They can just use the coffer for an off-job. I would like to hope had another players' main weapon dropped they also would have been afforded a guaranteed coffer.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

She then simply gave it to herself and didn't let anyone else roll on it, citing a previously nonexistent rule that "everyone's supposed to get a coffer, and my weapon was a direct drop so it doesn't count."

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Was this actually a non-existent rule, or was it written somewhere/said sometime earlier and you just didn't read/hear it?

Not to claim you were wrong, but we're only getting your side of the story here, and thus, you can easily tell little white lies in order to embellish yourself, thus I have to toss skepticism your way. If it was truly written / said nowhere, or no other directly written/spoken plans were made in advance about how this situation would play out, then it'd be a scummy thing to do, yes.

However, if the expectation was made at all that this is how this situation would be handled, then it isn't scummy by any means, it would have been the agreed expectation.

Again though, we only have your side of the story, so I've given information on both assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

It is prudent to have an online loot sheet and actually reach an agreement to how loot is distributed with nothing left to interpretation.

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But in the end, this is the best advice. You should understand everything about how loot is going to work in any static you join, and ask for clarification/communicate if things are unclear and make a decision if you want to join them once you have that information.

I don't believe it was written anywhere, no. Our loot sheet has no indication of it, and the Discord channel just pointed to the spreadsheet.

As to lying - sure, I could lie, but I also don't see what that would accomplish. None of you know me, and I'm not able to discuss names or identities of team members here.

https://imgur.com/vA7OPoR Not sure if this image will work, never posted on the forums before this thread.

Edit: it didn't, but here's the imgur of our spreadsheet with names blocked out https://imgur.com/vA7OPoR

Greed would have made better sense. Maybe the glowing effects are having an impact on how much people desire these weapons for glam and not just BiS. They probably didn't want to have to farm it later in pugs when it gets unlocked.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

This logic fundamentally makes no sense to me.

You have good RNG and get your BiS weapon early. Why does that entitle you to a second guaranteed weapon while everyone else only deserves one?

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Because the RNG factor here is the random weapon. Not the coffer, which is guaranteed. You don't deny someone a guaranteed drop because they happened to get a lucky random one.

An argument can be made about them having lower priority on other random weapons, like with the bow in your story. Provided there was any genuine contest on those (holding a weapon that was taken just so it doesn't fall on the floor over someones head on actually desirable loot is asinine).

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Because the RNG factor here is the random weapon. Not the coffer, which is guaranteed. You don't deny someone a guaranteed drop because they happened to get a lucky random one.

An argument can be made about them having lower priority on other random weapons, like with the bow in your story. Provided there was any genuine contest on those (holding a weapon that was taken just so it doesn't fall on the floor over someones head on actually desirable loot is asinine).

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The base expectation of receiving a weapon coffer before you are BiS is that you open the weapon on your main job. The point is to get everyone their BiS weapon. The other seven people were forced to open the weapon coffer on their main job - why would the 8th person who got a direct drop of their BiS weapon have an expectation that they, but nobody else, deserve a having-fun coffer to open on whatever job they please? That seems glaringly unfair and selfish to me.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

My static just talks about it.
Greed to not let it anything drop to the floor, need if you want it for a job you play, ask if someone else wants it too.
We keep track of the needs so greedy people don't roll everything every week(been there done that)
If my static would need to lootmaster because of a greedy individual we would get rid of that person instead.

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This is the way my static does it as well. We go in order of priority for loot. DPS BiS go first > Tank BiS next > Healer BiS > free for all. Tanks and healers greed just in case there was a miscommunication, until it goes FFA.

Lootmaster is an unnecessary setting if you view each other as part of a team. Their DPS improvements make me perform better, and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

The base expectation of receiving a weapon coffer before you are BiS is that you open the weapon on your main job. The point is to get everyone their BiS weapon. The other seven people were forced to open the weapon coffer on their main job - why would the 8th person who got a direct drop of their BiS weapon have an expectation that they, but nobody else, deserve a having-fun coffer to open on whatever job they please? That seems glaringly unfair and selfish to me.

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If the expectation is for them to open it on their main job, then they essentially got screwed over by having their weapon drop twice. Once as their coffer and once as a random weapon.

Or you would have preferred if they passed on the random and waited for their coffer? Group DPS be damned.

The random weapon is inherently unfair. Which is exactly why it should never affect the disribution of fair loot like the coffer.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

If the expectation is for them to open it on their main job, then they essentially got screwed over by having their weapon drop twice. Once as their coffer and once as a random weapon.

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Well now you're just being blatantly contrarian/nonsensical.

The person who received a BiS direct drop is on equal footing as the people who received a weapon coffer which they opened for their BiS. Our party lead was on equal footing as everyone who received a weapon coffer, because they, too, received their weapon. Drop or coffer does not matter if they are all going towards BiS. Everything past BiS should be FFA, and that is in fact the rule we had in place for literally everything other than this.

Lmao why are people defending someone in a couple-run static loot-mastering themselves a coffer. That's some epic contrarianism.

Yes, the person used their position to take a piece of loot they didn't really deserve. The reasonable objective of a group is to attain BiS for all of its members; it's completely irrelevant whether it drops randomly or comes from a coffer. Anything past that point should be FFA or subject to a new, previously agreed upon set of rules.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Lmao why are people defending someone in a couple-run static loot-mastering themselves a coffer. That's some epic contrarianism.

Yes, the person used their position to take a piece of loot they didn't really deserve. The reasonable objective of a group is to attain BiS for all of its members; it's completely irrelevant whether it drops randomly or comes from a coffer. Anything past that point should be FFA or subject to a new, previously agreed upon set of rules.

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Because leaving anything non-BiS to complete ffa is a great way to generate grudges between those who roll well and those who don't. Generally doesn't matter too much for everything else but weapons and chest pieces are better distributed somewhat evenly.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Because leaving anything non-BiS to complete ffa is a great way to generate grudges between those who roll well and those who don't. Generally doesn't matter too much for everything else but weapons and chest pieces are better distributed somewhat evenly.

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and stealing a coffer would lead to less grudges? It's a MMO. FFA rolls for loots is common and expected from the genre.

The group I raid with right now had/has loot go to main job BiS first, everyone has a declared off-job which once no one needs for main it gets distributed based on off-job BiS, and then it just goes to FFA, with everyone guaranteed 1x chest and 1x weapon coffer from P8S (once we beat it aaaaaa).

Loot distribution has been pretty fair thusfar, don't really foresee issues moving forward either. But basically, if by luck someone's weapon drops, they just get moved to the back of the line for their coffer drop.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Because leaving anything non-BiS to complete ffa is a great way to generate grudges between those who roll well and those who don't. Generally doesn't matter too much for everything else but weapons and chest pieces are better distributed somewhat evenly.

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Rolls are just RNG. If people are going to cry about it, the group can come to a consensus about a secondary loot distribution plan. Every group I've run in since HW has done FFA after hitting bis with people making requests here and there for specific things; I've never seen anyone form a grudge or throw a fit over it, but I guess that all depends on the maturity of the people in your group.

You know what really generates grudges and angry forum posts though? Abusing your position and lootmastering yourself items without a group consensus.

You need a new static especially if this isnt the first time. Stealing loot from your group who has worked equally hard to get it is scummy.

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Originally Posted by Xaphire

The group I raid with right now had/has loot go to main job BiS first, everyone has a declared off-job which once no one needs for main it gets distributed based on off-job BiS, and then it just goes to FFA, with everyone guaranteed 1x chest and 1x weapon coffer from P8S (once we beat it aaaaaa).

Loot distribution has been pretty fair thusfar, don't really foresee issues moving forward either. But basically, if by luck someone's weapon drops, they just get moved to the back of the line for their coffer drop.

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Specifically on the topic of loot distribution:

I agree and the way my group handles it is the same; if your weapon drops you are moved to the back of the line for loot, as it were. Important thing to note is by week 8 though they'll still have been given a guaranteed coffer.

Sounds like this was week 3 of clears, rereading OP, so what they did was scummy.

Sometimes people can’t play the role they want so I believe yes everyone should get a coffer. Her weapon is surely not the only one that dropped naturally, and it sounds like everyone else who won a weapon still got their coffee? Her being the 8th coffer doesn’t change that.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Always trouble.

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A tale as old as time.
Happened all the time in wow lol

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Originally Posted by san-toki

Tonight was my (problem-riddled, unhappy) static's final night of reclears and I need a sanity check that what our lootmaster did with the loot was not okay.

Lootmaster won her BiS weapon on our second reclears. Everyone else had to open a coffer, leaving us with one spare weapon coffer on week 8. Every other non-BiS coffer from P5/6/7S was made Greed only - but she insisted this weapon coffer belonged to her. It seemed obvious to me the coffer should be FFA, since it wasn't BiS for anyone - everyone was already BiS.

She then simply gave it to herself and didn't let anyone else roll on it, citing a previously nonexistent rule that "everyone's supposed to get a coffer, and my weapon was a direct drop so it doesn't count."

Am I crazy, or is the general expectation that everyone in a static gets their BiS weapon, regardless of what form it drops in, not a weapon coffer? Everyone I've asked seems to agree that was a scummy thing to do, but she and her boyfriend in the static kept insisting it was right.

There's also incidents of her engineering our loot plan to give herself the chest coffer on week 3 or so of reclears and also just taking a BRD weapon drop for herself because "she had said she wanted it," but those seem more like grey areas than this.

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You're crazy for joining a lootmaster party. No sane person does this, unless lootmaster is friend and/or guildmate. You've learned your lesson now: never join lootmaster party.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Specifically on the topic of loot distribution:

I agree and the way my group handles it is the same; if your weapon drops you are moved to the back of the line for loot, as it were. Important thing to note is by week 8 though they'll still have been given a guaranteed coffer.

Sounds like this was week 3 of clears, rereading OP, so what they did was scummy.

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Can those of you who are in statics who do this explain to me the logic of it? The members in your static who do not get a direct weapon drop have to open their weapon coffers on their main job, right? So why do you feel people who do get a lucky early direct drop also deserve a free guaranteed second weapon while the other members do not? Why wouldn’t the extra coffers be FFA?

I truly cannot wrap my mind around this system and it seems like half of this thread is split in that direction with the other half agreeing with me.