A short-term solution for tomestone and jobs

A lot of people have given up the idea of playing multiple roles and gearing them at the same time.
Right now the only solution is to create multiple characters (Do the MSQ with each of them) and grind tomestone/savage on each character while unlocking and killing content.

This is the opposite of the convenience that we have of playing any job on one character.
While I think the way that we grind tomestones for the different roles should be adjusted I wanted to come up with something that doesn't impact the current design of how long it will take you to grind the same item but instead of multiple characters we do all of that into one character.

The easier for FFXIV to implement a solution without having to create a complex feature or heavy new data into the server would be to create a tomestone that is rewarded based on which role the player is using. This would mean you Have tomestone X on the Tank and tomestones Y for Healer. You can grind all of them in one week if you want. A similar system should also exist in the savage book

To make this work like multiple characters when a duty roulette is complete the bonus would be consumed only for the roles played this way you keep the bonus for each role.

Some other systems I didn't think of should be adjusted for all of that to make sense :p

TLDR: The idea is to get a unique tomestone for each role to grind all of them on one character instead of relying on multiple characters + adding this same system on savage book
Example: if you play tank you would get tank tomestones that can only be spent on tank items. You will have to play the other roles to get their respective tomestones (It's a way to replicate what players are currently doing with alt characters)


We could have something that would look like that

https://i.imgur.com/a2f6WBP.png

Not bad of an idea. I quite like it!

I agree. This is probably one of the most solid ideas I've seen in recent months. I'd support this idea or something similar.

I think they'd sooner double the cap than multiply and create more of a grind.

I feel like this would potentially aggravate DPS queues.

This is not a new idea. but one that should be looked into further.

Just something to consider, melee DPS are weird.

they currently have 3 sets, striking, maiming and scouting. Starting with Striking and Maiming, if you were to gear for, say, Monk, you also gear Samurai, but lose out on Dragoon and Reaper, so, whilst you are still in the melee DPS category, you aren't as free as the other roles, though they do all share accessories. However, add in scouting and you have issues. You gear for Ninja, you only gear for Ninja, so you do effectively lock yourself to the one job, however, since they also use aiming accessories, you could technically get tomes for melee DPS, spend them on scouting gear, then use a ranged DPS and spend the tomes on aiming accessories, effectively speeding up how quickly you can get a full tome set.

Granted, you could change how all melee gear works so that they all share the same gear and all use strength and that would solve this issue, however, is that a road the community would be fine with? mainly in regards to Ninja changing its primary stat from Dex to STR.

They aren't going to quintuple the number of tomes we get per week. What if they had the first 450 tomestones be earned at the normal rate we have now (90 per expert, for example) and then they allowed another 300-450 tomestones, but at a 1/3 rate. So expert is 30 tomes, running a dungeon w/o bonus is ~16. Trial roulette is 5, etc etc.

Increase the cap, but make the grind harder. We aren't getting something for nothing.

That looks very confusing. You want four new tomestones each and every time? You want everyone in the entire game to passively acquire gear for alt jobs that they might not even have just so people who have everything unlocked can get free gear for alts jobs?

I get that people want to immediately have gear for any job they might choose to play, but personally it seems a little short sighted to think that would be good game design.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

That looks very confusing. You want four new tomestones each and every time? You want everyone in the entire game to passively acquire gear for alt jobs that they might not even have just so people who have everything unlocked can get free gear for alts jobs?

I get that people want to immediately have gear for any job they might choose to play, but personally it seems a little short sighted to think that would be good game design.

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I believe suggestion is 5 tomes each time, each of which needs to be grinded invididually by playing appropriate role. So if you want to gear a healer and a tank, you need to grind tomestones as healer for healer gear and as tank for tank gear, and its separate grinds with separate caps. So you don't get all 5 by playing one job, you need to play at least 5 different jobs, one in each role. I do think this is the most elegantly simple solution to endgame gearing of countless others proposed over time.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

I believe suggestion is 5 tomes each time, each of which needs to be grinded invididually by playing appropriate role. So if you want to gear a healer and a tank, you need to grind tomestones as healer for healer gear and as tank for tank gear, and its separate grinds with separate caps. So you don't get all 5 by playing one job, you need to play at least 5 different jobs, one in each role. I do think this is the most elegantly simple solution to endgame gearing of countless others proposed over time.

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This is exactly what Heroman3003 says!

I edited my post to make it clear

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Just something to consider, melee DPS are weird.

they currently have 3 sets, striking, maiming and scouting. Starting with Striking and Maiming, if you were to gear for, say, Monk, you also gear Samurai, but lose out on Dragoon and Reaper, so, whilst you are still in the melee DPS category, you aren't as free as the other roles, though they do all share accessories. However, add in scouting and you have issues. You gear for Ninja, you only gear for Ninja, so you do effectively lock yourself to the one job, however, since they also use aiming accessories, you could technically get tomes for melee DPS, spend them on scouting gear, then use a ranged DPS and spend the tomes on aiming accessories, effectively speeding up how quickly you can get a full tome set.

Granted, you could change how all melee gear works so that they all share the same gear and all use strength and that would solve this issue, however, is that a road the community would be fine with? mainly in regards to Ninja changing its primary stat from Dex to STR.

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Yeah, melee gear is inconsistent compared to the design of the other roles.
I think this is another issue that originates from something else than the tomestones grind.
I wonder what other melee players think about it but having one gear instead of 3 to get the same flexibility as other roles could not bring anything negative but that would require heavy balancing work for all of them working with the same stats without having an impact on damage output

So you want to make it so hardcore people could grind out 2,250 tomestone worth of gear in a single week, across the different job types and think this would be good for the game overall? There is a reason besides just annoying people that they limit the amount of tomestones you can get each week. This would make it so a handful of hardcore people would quickly outgear anyone else on all jobs. Don't you think this would make gear ilevel requirements in party finder worse? People would expect those who are "serious" about the game to grind out 2,250 tomestones each week and be high ilevel on all jobs.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

So you want to make it so hardcore people could grind out 2,250 tomestone worth of gear in a single week, across the different job types and think this would be good for the game overall? There is a reason besides just annoying people that they limit the amount of tomestones you can get each week. This would make it so a handful of hardcore people would quickly outgear anyone else on all jobs. Don't you think this would make gear ilevel requirements in party finder worse? People would expect those who are "serious" about the game to grind out 2,250 tomestones each week and be high ilevel on all jobs.

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The system won't change the fact that most players will still have single 'main' job/role they stick with and will grind/gear first and foremost. This simply opens option to actually be able to gear other roles as well, rather than forever be stuck with one role for rest of the expansion's endgame.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

So you want to make it so hardcore people could grind out 2,250 tomestone worth of gear in a single week, across the different job types and think this would be good for the game overall? There is a reason besides just annoying people that they limit the amount of tomestones you can get each week. This would make it so a handful of hardcore people would quickly outgear anyone else on all jobs. Don't you think this would make gear ilevel requirements in party finder worse? People would expect those who are "serious" about the game to grind out 2,250 tomestones each week and be high ilevel on all jobs.

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I'm not sure you get it correctly, you would still be limited to 450 tomestones a week per role that can only be used for that specific role.
Which mean gearing a single role won't be faster the only thing this idea bring is being able to gear multiple jobs at the same pace

As an example in my picture you can only spend the healer tomestone on healer items, if you plan to play a single role you won't get gear slower than anybody else

As long as the tank/healer tomestones can only be used for tank/healer gear then I see no issue with it.

Well, all the systems in place encourage players to try to be a tank or healer, so more than likely it would just be 3 sets entirely (dps, tank, healer).

Couple this with actual rewards beyond gear and you might get more people doing them. Things like mounts or a glamour set that any job could wear (as in, a heavy armor tank looking set from tank, but my healer can wear it). That and a few minions/mounts and I’d actually be doing more endgame stuff. As is, the grind for endgame tomestones for gear that is going to be obsolete is a non-starter for me. Useful for raiders, sure, but the average casual doesn’t care about it,

So i can't fast farm my mémo for DPS by playing a heal/tank and skip the waiting time ?

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Originally Posted by AthemRyu

A lot of people have given up the idea of playing multiple roles and gearing them at the same time.
Right now the only solution is to create multiple characters (Do the MSQ with each of them) and grind tomestone/savage on each character while unlocking and killing content.

This is the opposite of the convenience that we have of playing any job on one character.
While I think the way that we grind tomestones for the different roles should be adjusted I wanted to come up with something that doesn't impact the current design of how long it will take you to grind the same item but instead of multiple characters we do all of that into one character.

The easier for FFXIV to implement a solution without having to create a complex feature or heavy new data into the server would be to create a tomestone that is rewarded based on which role the player is using. This would mean you Have tomestone X on the Tank and tomestones Y for Healer. You can grind all of them in one week if you want. A similar system should also exist in the savage book

To make this work like multiple characters when a duty roulette is complete the bonus would be consumed only for the roles played this way you keep the bonus for each role.

Some other systems I didn't think of should be adjusted for all of that to make sense :p

TLDR: The idea is to get a unique tomestone for each role to grind all of them on one character instead of relying on multiple characters + adding this same system on savage book
Example: if you play tank you would get tank tomestones that can only be spent on tank items. You will have to play the other roles to get their respective tomestones (It's a way to replicate what players are currently doing with alt characters)


We could have something that would look like that

https://i.imgur.com/a2f6WBP.png

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While I doubt SE would ever go for this, the DPS section needs to be just "DPS" not sub-categorized into the different roles. Three categories (tank/heal/dps). Yes it would suck for them specifically, but if it were ever to be implemented, I would be that would be what the devs would do.

Tripling the amount of esoteric currencies is not a simple solution.
Simple solution is to double or triple the tomestone cap.
Gear threads always have an aura of weird hostage negotiations in them, like we gotta be careful not to be too drastic with our words. Just adjust the tomestone cap if you want to give active players more or less gear.
Of course as long as you keep logged in by your desire for more gear, and you don't stop raiding or capping your tomes, then nothing needs to be changed right?

I think we are overcomplicating the problem and just creating more unnecessary hurdles and grinds that no one wants. The tome cap (and amount of tomes earned in duties) needs to be adjusted. It should double on or before the 6.3 patch, and then eventually unlock to 2k somewhere later in the 6.3 patch.

Dear baby Jesus, no. Making the problem a headache is not fixing it.

I think the thing that SE doesn't see eye-to-eye with the playerbase that is focused on gearing multiple jobs...

There's only so much content that truly benefits from the timegated gear (savage, tomestone, 24-man). If you have one job geared, you can do all of this content. Other content that you could be doing does not require it or would be level sync'd. There's so much more to the game than just the gear treadmill.

Granted i dont share the passion that some people do for gearing i will prioritize the job i want to play and every other class just gets whatever but i dont see how that would work having the roulette be looted multiple times daily plus what if some people are still leveling is there an extra run for that too?

JFC, this would be a Nightmare..,
It would Have People On a Treadmill, while it would create a massive flood of Party Finder Parties to Grind the tombstones.
It practically REINFORCES the role drought.
<while a side effect would be that people would gain some cross-class skill and understanding> the influx and variances of Skill will increase to the point that it won't be a drought of one class.., but a drought of one class, and all classes not being Run Adequately in every party.

Let alone that depending on when it's implemented.., IF TODAY..,
most players would stick to Grinding Current content, leaving the Roulettes for old content to have a Seasonal Drought each time a Expac/Patch Drops.<let alone when the week resets, or very small amount of hours when the day resets.>

and then there's the fact that there is also side content people wish to run.
[For Example I want to start pushing Crystal again for the remainder of the season, but I ain't got the time with the dailies and my desires for Manderville(Relics, and their Aproximately 28500 Astro<nomy>-Tomes).]
{course, most of this is Half-way to the extreme, but it will be noticeable change. which would restrict some content queues periodically. and this is from someone who would Grind a zone completely, til it's out of content and move to the next. in Eureka for example.}

Honeslty I personally wouldnt care about the grind if every new piece of post-patch content that isn't even savage/ex didn't require absolute top item level. I had to stop MSQ at the Alzadaal's to go do other things and found out I couldn't do Aglaia either so I had to go and grind the Smileton/Dead Ends/the omicron dungeon over and over for accessories just to meet minimum, then same blocker issue but at Troia and then again at Barbariccia. The fact that you have to grind the gear even to access the casual story-level content is ridiculous in my eyes. And now there is a blocker meaning that basically for rest of the patch, even if I were to successfully grind a job to 90 that isn't a healer I still wouldn't be able to do even the upcoming casual content as that job just because I don't have tomestones for the gear, as I am spending them all just to get to measly ilvl 620 for the healers.

I feel like this is a very, very bloated way to deal with the problem at hand.

The issue is simply alt-unfriendliness, no? We don't have to put players through the same degree of grind as they'd face across a separate character per Armor Class (Fending, Healing, Casting, Aiming, Maiming, Striking, Scouting) to deal with that. We can... be more friendly, especially as in the interest of a less bloated solution.

A counterproposal:

Once you acquire a piece of time/clear-gated loot, allow that same slot to purchased via uncapped tomestones for all the other jobs. Done.

If you acquire, say, the weekly tome pants for any job, you can buy the tier's weekly tome pants with the uncapped tomes from then out. Get a (Savage) Chestpiece of Fending, and you can buy all the Savage chestpieces for however many of the uncapped tomes. Etc., etc. Simple. Clean. Doesn't push us towards 5x the grinding per week and doesn't require 5x the weekly currency types.

I like it as someone who likes to have other jobs at least be on par or as close to my mains it'd reduced the months of grinding for me to maybe a month.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

So you want to make it so hardcore people could grind out 2,250 tomestone worth of gear in a single week, across the different job types and think this would be good for the game overall? There is a reason besides just annoying people that they limit the amount of tomestones you can get each week. This would make it so a handful of hardcore people would quickly outgear anyone else on all jobs. Don't you think this would make gear ilevel requirements in party finder worse? People would expect those who are "serious" about the game to grind out 2,250 tomestones each week and be high ilevel on all jobs.

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This fundamentally doesn't change anything tho?
you would gain gear at the same rate for each job individually, you wouldn't gain more power. And no, you wouldn't be expected to grind out all 2250 tomestones because unless you're doing week 1 clears your job doesn't matter that much. This isn't wow where a class can be 30% below the top DPS

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

This fundamentally doesn't change anything tho?
you would gain gear at the same rate for each job individually, you wouldn't gain more power. And no, you wouldn't be expected to grind out all 2250 tomestones because unless you're doing week 1 clears your job doesn't matter that much. This isn't wow where a class can be 30% below the top DPS

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It's still a hassle if you're DPS. I tend to run duties as tank or healer to support my DPS main. Having to deal with the queue times for a DPS specific currency is a huge step backwards.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Honestly I personally wouldnt care about the grind if every new piece of post-patch content that isn't even savage/ex didn't require absolute top item level. I had to stop MSQ at the Alzadaal's to go do other things and found out I couldn't do Aglaia either so I had to go and grind the Smileton/Dead Ends/the omicron dungeon over and over for accessories just to meet minimum, then same blocker issue but at Troia and then again at Barbariccia.

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While the system isn't ideal, trying to acquire i560 accessories from the early dungeons is probably the least time-efficient thing you could have chosen to do.

Your intended first step on the "gearing through content" ladder is the i570 Moonward gear, originally sold at the tomestone vendor but now purchased with Hunt nuts. Even if you hadn't earned any currency before this, you could do the two weekly B-rank hunts (Shadowbringers and Endwalker, as both run on the same currency) and a few of the daily rank 3 marks to earn a four-piece set of jewellery in about as long as it would take to run one of those dungeons.

You can also start running roulettes with your level 90 character for a good amount of astronomy tomes to spend on i590 Radiant gear

I would recommend investing in a crafted weapon as soon as you reach level 90 (as weapons are the hardest and/or slowest piece of gear to get from playing standard content) as this will drag your item level up a fair way and let you get into content that can boost it further. You might also choose to buy some other gear pieces – even if you don't want to spend the money on a full set, you can just aim to buy enough pieces to get you over a threshold and eligible for content you want to run.

Once you hit i565 you can do the first tier of Pandaemonium for i580 gear and bonus astronomy tomes for completion.