Are positionals a outdated thing?

I was watching Xenosys and I been agreeing in that positionals are at this point just dumb and a archaic system. Should they just finally get rid of positionals once and for all?

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I was watching Xenosys and I been agreeing in that positionals are at this point just dumb and a archaic system. Should they just finally get rid of positionals once and for all?

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The Auburn All-Father is never wrong.

#softdad

I find them kind of annoying and don't believe they really add anything, but I generally don't really care if they stay or if they are removed. They do add a level of need to pay attention of when and where to use true north, but at the same time the differences between managing true north on sam and on drg are night and day, though I don't think I'd care as much about positionals on drg if they weren't literally back to back abilities.

So ya, I'm kind of whatever about them. They annoy me on certain jobs and on other jobs its stupid easy to get around them. I personally don't think they will be around in 7.0 though and mechanics will just add more scenarios to push melee away from the boss instead of just mechanics that make doing positonals annoying.

I'd be down with removing them in exchange for a different way of making melee complex.
Mostly because they hamper boss design because the devs have to account for melee positionals

I actually quite enjoy them, and I wish that there were a few more of them.

Positionals aren't make-or-break, but I find that they make melee a little more dynamic and mobile in a fun way. I wouldn't add them to non-melee, but I'd much prefer to keep them (and maybe expand them to another ability or two where appropriate).

I like positionals, please keep them.

Not doing positionals is outdated :) When they're gone you're going to miss them

they're kind of the reason melee get's to do more damage than ranged. hitboxes are so big everyone would be ranged without them

not opposed to removal but what would replace them to keep melee's value?

I love them and I wish they were back to being on opo opo and raptor.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Not doing positionals is outdated :) When they're gone you're going to miss them

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I'm sure I'd miss them just as much as I miss TP.

Not only do I enjoy positionals, I will continue to stubbornly act as if all of the MNK single-target attacks have a positional requirement, even though that's no longer true!

More seriously, I actually enjoy positionals; the fact that not only am I mobile but that mobility is important so that I can shift back and forth slightly to hit positionals is part of why I've discovered I like melee DPS better than caster or physical ranged. Maybe it's because as a healer main I am used to mobility being limited, and melee is the opposite end -- you not only can move while attacking, but unlike physical ranged, you have to as part of your rotation.

Variety is the spice of life and all that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I like Positionals. They're a bonus for standing in the right place.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I was watching Xenosys and I been agreeing in that positionals are at this point just dumb and a archaic system. Should they just finally get rid of positionals once and for all?

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The way the XIV's combat code and GCD are, it makes a bad structure for positional based gameplay. It would be for the better if those were gone and they made up a more interesting system.

One of the most interestingly designed fights last tier was P2 and P2S because of the freedom they had with mechanics in relation to the arena. So I am in the camp that removing positionals would allow for more dynamic fight design which the game itself would generally benefit from on a universal scale.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

I'd be down with removing them in exchange for a different way of making melee complex.
Mostly because they hamper boss design because the devs have to account for melee positionals

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The devs can, and have, just made positionless enemies for when positionals aren't necessary or dont work.
There's not need to remove them from the jobs when you can just remove them from the enemies when needed.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

I like positionals, please keep them.

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I don't understand either. I want to think about where I have to stand in an encounter. If you don't like positionals, fair, just play ranged then.

I could say I don't like them because they make classes harder to play.

But that's exactly the point, isn't it?

Tanks don't have them, but in exchange they have to do other things such as positioning the boss, handling tank busters and protecting the party.

I can't explain ranged job rotations because some of them are actually like a tank rotation without anything else to distract them. There was a time when I would say the dot management on ranged jobs is their version of it, but now we have SMN, RDM, MCH and DNC which don't have these.

i'm sure glad I don't have to worry about positionals with summoner, I have quite enough to handle with the latest extreme without having to do positionals as well.

If Square is willing to make more fights like P2 where boss positioning is a little more dynamic and makes positionals hard to design around, I wouldn't mind if they ended up going away to make room for it. But as the game is now, I'd rather they still be relevant to a jobs kit. Even now I play monk as if it still has those old positionals. They have a subtle effect on feel for jobs that can make a job with lots of positionals more dynamic and fast paced as you move around the boss, having to dodge while simultaneously making sure you can get that extra potency off.

I think ideally if Square wants more fights like P2 where positionals are more a hindrance to design than a boon, then it'd be fair to just make them not require positionals. But for other fights I'd rather they be kept as they can add a bit more spice to melee jobs than just standing at the bosses backside and can make good tanking just that bit more important.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The devs can, and have, just made positionless enemies for when positionals aren't necessary or dont work.
There's not need to remove them from the jobs when you can just remove them from the enemies when needed.

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This is the best answer. Anyone pretending like positional hamstring fight design is conveniently ignoring bosses that are omnidirectional.

That being said, I am not fundamentally opposed to seeing them get removed one day, but only once there is an adequate follow-up system in place that allows for the same amount of skill expression (or ideally more) in melees.

Not a fan of them. I never play any job that uses them because I'm very likely to forget which position I should use where.

I don't like how positionals are implemented now. There's only two moves with them and you have to hit them or you lose out on a lot of potency. I liked how MNK used to have them because positionals were more of something you look to do for optimizing your damage, you didn't lose out on so much if you missed a couple. Also 2 true north stacks + riddle of earth covered a lot, if a boss spins around too much just give them no positionals like P2S.

I hope I'm not the only one that half of the time I just flat out ignore positionals and just use true north when it's on cool down.

I hate having to worry about positioning myself during hectic boss fights that either they love to constantly be on the move or the tank loves to play tag with it.

I don't mind just hate then when you ready to do your moves and suddenly aoes appear messing your positions up. I am also on the team of I really wish they get rid of the skill bloat. Some these classes are so full on skills its ridiculous that some literally fill almost 3 hotbars

Hmm. I've been a career Monk since 2.0 and have recently swapped to Reaper. I thought about this for a while and I do agree they're outdated. With fights getting more complex mechanics, positionals are just false difficulty on your class now, more than anything. I like Reapers 2 positionals per 30 seconds but Monks can deffo go. It's much less stressful playing a ranged job, that's for sure.

Personally, I think MP is an outdated concept as well. Get rid of it and give us a set amount of charges. :^)

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Personally, I think MP is an outdated concept as well. Get rid of it and give us a set amount of charges. :^)

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I do agree with this also on summoner. I also think Black Mage needs a raise, lore be damned. No one wants to prog with a blm.

Let's be real, HP is an outdated mechanic. I say we should move to a three strike system where failure to follow mechanics three consecutive times just kills you outright. :^)

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The devs can, and have, just made positionless enemies for when positionals aren't necessary or dont work.
There's not need to remove them from the jobs when you can just remove them from the enemies when needed.

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So positionals aren't outdated because they can just be made meaningless anyway?

Never liked them. Just a busy work with a tiny benefits

I like them and I feel like they're pretty fair too. Casual players don't really need to hit them most of the time. It gives you something to aim for though.

To me, they are a relic from 1.0 and I couldn't care less if they kept or removed them at this point. They add a bit of optimization to melee and a little difficulty which is usually a good thing, however, I don't think they add enough difficulty to justify staying if SE wanted to remove them.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

To me, they are a relic from 1.0 and I couldn't care less if they kept or removed them at this point. They add a bit of optimization to melee and a little difficulty which is usually a good thing, however, I don't think they add enough difficulty to justify staying if SE wanted to remove them.

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I would like to say its not even the end of the world if you decide to just ignore positionals if you dont feel like it. At least in regular content, although even when I did savage fights as a monk + reaper, I just stayed with the group and hit True North to get my damage bonus anyway.

However Im no damage or parse expert so I'm sure the constant damage boosts for nailing every positional on queue with your rotation adds up; but I like to focus more on watching out mechanics than get greedy with trying to hit the sweet spots.

Positionals are like proximity damage requirements for physical ranged attackers, but for melee fighters.

I think combos are an outdated, archaic mechanic. With fights becoming increasingly more hectic, I have no time to focus on what I'm doing, it's fak...

...You know what, I'm not even gonna joke about it 'cause I see people actually liking the idea.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

I think combos are an outdated, archaic mechanic. With fights becoming increasingly more hectic, I have no time to focus on what I'm doing, it's fak...

...You know what, I'm not even gonna joke about it 'cause I see people actually liking the idea.

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You know I think playing video games is such an outdated concept, I have no time to spend my free time stressing out over beeps and blips and pay a subscription. I think it would be better if we just turned off our computers and went outside throwing rocks

Dunno who that is, but perhaps he should go play a game without them and you should form your own opinion. You know what's dumb and archaic? The unengaging mobile game design we seem to be headed towards. Devs need to start adding to combat instead of taking away.

Positionals are a core part of FFXIV and should stay, god knows melee except NIN don't have anything to really worry about anymore. Juggling them AND mechanics is rewarding, it's better than nothing, which is what one would get in return. True North exists. Be smart and use it when you need it if they're that hard. The devs have designed positionless fights when they felt like it as well. It's not an issue other than for lazy players.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

they're kind of the reason melee get's to do more damage than ranged. hitboxes are so big everyone would be ranged without them

not opposed to removal but what would replace them to keep melee's value?

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Neither of this has anything to do with why melee do more damage than range. The whole idea, in theory at least, is melee have to disengage for mechanics whereas range can run around with impunity. Removing positionals would have almost no impact on this regard.

I haven't seen the video but positionals should have been scrapped years ago.They do nothing at all and really don't feel rewarding to hit. I and several others did the math on this way back in storm blood one such thread as an example

To take ninja as a quick example If they just stayed behind the boss and really didn't care about positionals you would never notice.. they'd lose 60 potency every ~30 seconds on their armor crush. which works out at a whopping total of 2 whole potency per second, this is something like 0.5% damage... Which is immeasurable as a variance that small would easily fall under the margin of error allowed for crits, directs or even a tiny fluctuation in latency As a result, there's no impact to them so should be scrapped entirely. Plus with more and more boss encounters not requiring them anyway the impact they carry is even less.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

To me, they are a relic from 1.0 and I couldn't care less if they kept or removed them at this point. They add a bit of optimization to melee and a little difficulty which is usually a good thing, however, I don't think they add enough difficulty to justify staying if SE wanted to remove them.

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They're not even a relic from 1.0. In 1.0 the positional requirements were on the first skills of a combo not the last and they carried impact as a result. Hitting a positional allowed you to combo. Missing a positional wouldn't.

Hell even tanks had them and it was pretty satisfying to successfully find that right moment to duck behind a boss land a hit to open up a higher damage combo and get back in front of the boss without turning it and ruining everyone else's combos.. That's real reward, real impact.

ARR+ they're just weightless and pointless. and should have been axed years ago.. i would say take them back to the 1.23 system but we all the devs run a million miles from complex or actual rewarding gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

The Auburn All-Father is never wrong.

#softdad

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may the All Baldmad stay balddad. UwU. *cat ears*