6.2 eve pvp changes

Any hot takes on what they might do before the madness begins?

nothing. you don't get any changes til the game gets patched.

hopefully they will make a routelle queue for rival so people will play it. i have not palyed it yet

Nerfs for the weaker jobs and buffs for the powerful jobs

I'd say actual functioning matchmaking, but we all know that's never going to happen.

Regrettably, 6.18 FL changes seem to be here to stay.

PLD cheese not fixed
No diminishing returns for crowd control

At least rival wings is back.

I'm...thoroughly confused as to why WHM got buffed across the board outside of a nerf to Miracle of Nature's range. They were already the most commonly seen healer in CC.

On a positive note AST's non-Balance card buffs got adjusted to be more generally useful.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

Regrettably, 6.18 FL changes seem to be here to stay.

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I dont know whether to laugh or cry at these changes

I just here to try wings with the new build
as for changes I don't think any since they didn't say anything yet
seem a bit too late to just drop it on us now

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm...thoroughly confused as to why WHM got buffed across the board outside of a nerf to Miracle of Nature's range. They were already the most commonly seen healer in CC.

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Well if there's one thing we've learned, it's that PVP job adjustments are based a lot on the win rates that they see on Crystalline Conflict. They want them to be all close to 50%. It doesn't really have anything to do with how many people play the jobs. That's why they buffed Black Mage back then.

White mage, while used frequently, had the lowest win rate of all the jobs, so they wanted to bring the win rate up a bit.

https://i.imgur.com/vwuFwY7.png

By the same logic, that's why they nerfed scholar buffs and debuffs from 10% to 8% (highest win rate). The warrior self-heal buffs were to bring that win rate up a bit too.

That balancing logic is terrible because if a class gets bandwagoned due to being somewhat better then others (But not outstandingly so to the point of being able to carry bad players), it can potentially tank its win/loss ratio as a side effect of that.

The tank and healer most commonly believed to be the "best" having the lowest win/loss ratio doesn't seem like a coincidence.

RPR is also widely considered to be the worst melee job yet it ended up with the highest win ratio because the few dedicated enough to play it could make it work in spite of its shortcomings due to just being better players overall.

The Astro card changes make sense so not much to say but they really couldn't change how Chainsaw behaves instead of a nerf to 95% while still playing rng lol.

Would have loved something like a vuln stack or dot or anything for Chainsaw...

Also I found that out today, but it is pretty interesting that they have a section on the PVP job guide page explaining a lot of their balancing decisions.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/#pvpaction

At the bottom of the page you can reveal the "Patch 6.2 Adjustments Overview".

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

Regrettably, 6.18 FL changes seem to be here to stay.

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Yeah, I saw that this morning. Turns out "We are planning a number of adjustments for Patch 6.2" for Frontlines just meant "Ah, you'll get used to it". Ah well, maybe at some point during 6.2x. No fix for PLD cheese either, which hardly surprises me but is still baffling that they're OK with that as a feature, not a bug.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

Also I found that out today, but it is pretty interesting that they have a section on the PVP job guide page explaining a lot of their balancing decisions.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/#pvpaction

At the bottom of the page you can reveal the "Patch 6.2 Adjustments Overview".

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Goddamn these are a shallow, I knew the PvP team was incompetent, but shesh. That pathetic slap on the wrist for NIN's LB, not fixing the snapshotting bullcrap on SMN and MCH's LB and buffing WHM because it's popular, then nerfing AST and SCH because they had better players. Least they could've done is give us 2 charge of purify.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Goddamn these are a shallow, I knew the PvP team was incompetent, but shesh. That pathetic slap on the wrist for NIN's LB, not fixing the snapshotting bullcrap on SMN and MCH's LB and buffing WHM because it's popular, then nerfing AST and SCH because they had better players. Least they could've done is give us 2 charge of purify.

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Shallow doesn't begin to cover it. I main SCH and AST in PvP. Taking away Ewer and Spire (I could live without Ewer, but Spire was such a nice thing to have). Even if they brought in Bole and Arrow, Spire was by far a great thing to have on the battlefield and in CC. It may not have seemed like much but it could help clinch LBs that needed a slight boost in getting full. The nerfing of Adlo and Bio, but I see bloodwhetting, horrid roar and chaotic spring are getting headpats. This isn't balancing. It's the thinnest coat of paint and saying it is better. Thank goodness they left BRD alone.

Thank you for again considering everything else in the game with your patch/release timings except PvP :p I am already ready for good old 14+ months of back to back seasons!!!

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

That balancing logic is terrible because if a class gets bandwagoned due to being somewhat better then others (But not outstandingly so to the point of being able to carry bad players), it can potentially tank its win/loss ratio as a side effect of that.

The tank and healer most commonly believed to be the "best" having the lowest win/loss ratio doesn't seem like a coincidence.

RPR is also widely considered to be the worst melee job yet it ended up with the highest win ratio because the few dedicated enough to play it could make it work in spite of its shortcomings due to just being better players overall.

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This ^^^^^ I Wonder why i get flamed for saying some of the literal same things.

The thought process and consideration SquarenEnix does is absurd. Plus they only listen to the Japanese forums which is unfortunate. With their perfect network infrastructure and ping.

They should have thought of and brought stuff up from WoW PvP, since its was better in a certain era.

Where is our Battlegrounds? Faction related stuff? Free For All, 1 v 1, 3 v 3 death match modes, or modes where you fight the admiral/general of the faction after pummeling through objectives?

Balancing around all those ideas would be amazing. Especially 24 button pvp would be a sweet spot. 2 hotbar cycling or 4 for ps4 + macros.

Monk had the only thing going for them in PvP gutted. Straight to the bottom here we go!

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Originally Posted by silverdragontyr

Monk had the only thing going for them in PvP gutted. Straight to the bottom here we go!

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But you can still get your free kill but instead every of 60s its slightly longer :p

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Originally Posted by silverdragontyr

Monk had the only thing going for them in PvP gutted. Straight to the bottom here we go!

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It's strange. Like, I do think our burst damage could be too high in some circumstances (not unlike a few other jobs), but we also have huge issues, like the delay on the Riddle of Earth heal, and how horrible of a fit Enlightenment is for the netcode. Even the LB nerf IMO was done in the worst way possible.

What is happening with melee? I die after like a few hits? Did they nerf melee HP again? Goddamn. PVP is so unplayable.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

Also I found that out today, but it is pretty interesting that they have a section on the PVP job guide page explaining a lot of their balancing decisions.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/#pvpaction

At the bottom of the page you can reveal the "Patch 6.2 Adjustments Overview".

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I actually can't believe they based their shit purely on win rates.... Holy shit they are beyond incompetent

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Originally Posted by Karasio

I actually can't believe they based their shit purely on win rates.... Holy shit they are beyond incompetent

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What is wrong? Most of the changes were good/necessary :p

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Originally Posted by Karasio

I actually can't believe they based their shit purely on win rates.... Holy shit they are beyond incompetent

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Yeah. Normally I am on the more positive and optimistic side, but this patch is a big L for the battle team.

It is good to observe data. That said, they seem really bad at interpreting what they mean, or how to act upon it. It is funny, because Yoshi-P made a snide remark about developers seeming to not play their own game, but in both PvE and PvP, while obviously Yoshi-P plays a lot, I have no confidence his team is always doing the same in kind. A lot of changes that feel disconnected from reality.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

It's strange. Like, I do think our burst damage could be too high in some circumstances (not unlike a few other jobs), but we also have huge issues, like the delay on the Riddle of Earth heal, and how horrible of a fit Enlightenment is for the netcode. Even the LB nerf IMO was done in the worst way possible.

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Monk is usually a mixed bag: Their normal combos have 0 threat since you see the Phantom Rush coming from a mile and the combo of Phoenix+ stun+ Enlightment+ LB will only get a kill against Summoners and the like and even then can be screwed by a single heal/shield during that combo or the netcode acting weird and allowing the enemy to heal before the LB lands. The lock of the LB acts both ways so MNK is forced to commit to LB someone. MNK also has one of the worst defensive skills in the entire game with a skill that gives 0 defence and gives a stronger heal the more damage you take. Problem is that is basically a "please dont CC me now that im low before I heal" plus also acting often quite wonky.

Was a job that needed some QOL on some skills not having those issues ignored and instead being slapped with a nerf because heavens forfend that the melee with the worst defensives (and no, flash steppping a teammate is barely a defence considering retargetting is annoying as hell, has its uses but inferior to forward/backward dashes) has a chance to kill a single low defence and HP target after using most of their skills chained one after another

So if we're making balance changes because of win-rates... Why wasn't Bard buffed, exactly..? Is that 10% reduced GCD speed for the party that much of a gamebreaker that it's supposed to have <50% win rate..?

Bards getting buffed... Dalamud will shoot back up into the sky before that.

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Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

So if we're making balance changes because of win-rates... Why wasn't Bard buffed, exactly..? Is that 10% reduced GCD speed for the party that much of a gamebreaker that it's supposed to have <50% win rate..?

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You mean, let me check the notes....

Brd, Mch, Dnc, Smn, Gnb, drg?
Since they all have less than 50%! (unironically, whm just has 1% less than some, that's literally NOTHING)

Like I won't say whm is too strong nor or anything, but have they looked at the PLAYRATES instead of the wins?
Whm is notorioulsy advertised by everybody to be op, so what do people do?
They play whm. It's beginner friendly, people like how it plays, it's the "op" one.
It draws a lot of people to it.
It is quite rare to not at least have one whm in any match given.

I will NOT believe the winrates WITHOUT how many people play it.
Because I'm almost 100% sure that whm is one, if not THE most played class in pvp.
Winrates without the actual playrates don't make any sense to show, since less played classes have an easier time getting higher winrates, since the pool isn't as polluded...

Like the fact that Dnc, brd, even Mch, EVEN DRG!!!!!!!! Has under 50%, even tho I do see a lot of them.
Dancers less and less the higher you get, because turns out, dancer just isn't that useful and 15 yalms range SUCKS for a ranged....
But Brd and Mch? I see a lot of those, what does it say about them if they are so fine?
Even Smn? Where people drop Bahamut on everything with low hp and it just kills? How do they explain that?

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Originally Posted by Intratec

Bards getting buffed... Dalamud will shoot back up into the sky before that.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

You mean, let me check the notes....

Brd, Mch, Dnc, Smn, Gnb, drg?
Since they all have less than 50%! (unironically, whm just has 1% less than some, that's literally NOTHING)

Like I won't say whm is too strong nor or anything, but have they looked at the PLAYRATES instead of the wins?
Whm is notorioulsy advertised by everybody to be op, so what do people do?
They play whm. It's beginner friendly, people like how it plays, it's the "op" one.
It draws a lot of people to it.
It is quite rare to not at least have one whm in any match given.

I will NOT believe the winrates WITHOUT how many people play it.
Because I'm almost 100% sure that whm is one, if not THE most played class in pvp.
Winrates without the actual playrates don't make any sense to show, since less played classes have an easier time getting higher winrates, since the pool isn't as polluded...

Like the fact that Dnc, brd, even Mch, EVEN DRG!!!!!!!! Has under 50%, even tho I do see a lot of them.
Dancers less and less the higher you get, because turns out, dancer just isn't that useful and 15 yalms range SUCKS for a ranged....
But Brd and Mch? I see a lot of those, what does it say about them if they are so fine?
Even Smn? Where people drop Bahamut on everything with low hp and it just kills? How do they explain that?

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Look, all I'm saying:

- Warrior 48.8% winrate (Buffed)
- Gunbreaker 49.1% winrate (Buffed)
- Dragoon 49% winrate (Buffed)
- Samurai 50.4% winrate (Buffed)
- Machinist 48.6% winrate (Buffed)
- Summoner 48.5% winrate (Buffed)
- White Mage 47.4% winrate (Buffed)

......

- Bard 48.7% winrate. Unchanged.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The real question is why BLM isn't getting more nerfs. It has a >50% winrate despite having a stellar reputation as a strong job.

If one believes that playrates are the reason why WHM stats are so poor - it's attracting bad players - then what does that say about BLM? Unlike WHM, the job is clearly strong enough to carry these same bad players to a positive win ratio. I shudder to think of what their winrate would look like if you only looked at the stats of good BLM players.