Envisioning a new Dragoon. The Hybrid Melee/Ranged.

With all the talk of a rework on the horizon for 7.0, what would people think of Dragoon becoming the 'red mage' of the melee classes?

A hybrid Melee/Ranged job that executes jumps in and out of melee range while executing a melee and ranged rotation.

A basic 1, 2, 3 Combo

A continuation combo that ends in a backflip out of melee range and activates the secondary ranged combo (Overwriting the melee combo buttons)

A ranged 1, 2, 3 combo that Throws the spear and activates Life of the Dragon at the end.

Life of the Dragon burst window, where you can Stardiver every GCD and weave other jumps in-between each cast, stacking a buff each time a dive is landed. (Think enshroud for reaper)

End of burst window, Stardiver Becomes Ahk Morn, summoning an effigy of Nidhogg to expend all stacks in a bursty AOE channel.

Geirskogal, Nastrond and Wyrmwind Thrust replace the standard AOE combo during life of the dragon

Dragonsight changed to 5% damage for all party members
Lance charge flat out removed
Battle Litany remains as it is now.

Thoughts?

Dragoon is pretty boring as it is, and i feel like the use of a spear as a melee only weapon is a huge waste of potential.

Frankly, I'd just be satisfied with them lowering the cooldowns of the jumping abilities. The long cooldowns IMO water down the job identity. I feel like my DRG barely jumps that much outside of the occasional filler oGCD and the bare minimum to use Mirage Dive to gain Dragon Gauge.

Sure, it might be a little too mobile, but RPR, NIN, and DNC are quite mobile too. So I would like Dragoon too feel more like it does in other FF games - mobile and "jumpy".

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Life of the Dragon burst window, where you can Stardiver every GCD and weave other jumps in-between each cast, stacking a buff each time a dive is landed. (Think enshroud for reaper)

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No, it is not in our best interests to become a copy of RPR.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Dragoon is pretty boring as it is, and i feel like the use of a spear as a melee only weapon is a huge waste of potential.

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It might be boring for you, but DRG right now is in the best state it's ever been. Is RPR fun to you? Plenty of people find it boring, yet it doesn't mean that the job has to be universally so.

Dragoon is traditionally a tank/dps blend, note the higher then standard AC on the armor.

Not that I don't think medium range class wouldn't be worth playing. I'm more likely to make it whips and put it in the hands of a beastmaster class.

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Originally Posted by Aco505

No, it is not in our best interests to become a copy of RPR.



It might be boring for you, but DRG right now is in the best state it's ever been. Is RPR fun to you? Plenty of people find it boring, yet it doesn't mean that the job has to be universally so.

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Best state its ever been in?

Did you play it in SHB? it was perfect.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Best state its ever been in?

Did you play it in SHB? it was perfect.

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I did, and me as well as others have acknowledged the fact that it's in its best state ever now due to how fun and hectic the machine-gun weaving becomes during burst, without it being stale or too boring in between due to the positional dancing and the need to keep GSK/HJ on hard CD.

DRG may need to be "tweaked" a bit (I'm not fond of the idea, but the devs want to I suppose), and I don't disagree with the job having more ranged options, but I think NIN already fills that role (even if DRG can still have some of it since Piercing Talon is kinda bad). However, any suggestion to make DRG more like RPR will always be a bad idea because they're very different jobs.

The focus should be in the oGCD-focused nature of the DRG's rotation, and making GCDs and oGCDs interact more with and between themselves.

Don't rework a job that does what it does near perfectly.

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Originally Posted by CrazyAce

Frankly, I'd just be satisfied with them lowering the cooldowns of the jumping abilities. The long cooldowns IMO water down the job identity. I feel like my DRG barely jumps that much outside of the occasional filler oGCD and the bare minimum to use Mirage Dive to gain Dragon Gauge.

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Keep in mind that they jump during the finisher of the 1-2-3 combo, wheeling thrusts are jumps too IIRC, and the AoE starter ability is also a jump. They're all jumping attacks just not the classic DRG high jump.

Some changes that wouldn't be that bad that I could see them doing:

- Remove or rework life surge: It's pretty obvious to most that is on the chopping block. It's not a very interesting buff that conflicts with battle litany (at least before 6.2) and the healing properties are just an afterthough since the move also has to be used before certain GCDs rather than for healing purposes first. One less cooldown to track. Alternatively you could make it into a defensive only cooldown like all the other melees have.

- Make Stardiver a GCD: I could honestly see them doing this because it would make burst easier and many people complain about the animation lock and clipping. Having the biggest move on the GCD will also feel more impactful.

Now as for what I think would be cool: I would love a jump that avoids AOEs because there's nothing more classic dragoon. It could be a similar tool to Monk's SSS where it is only used for more niche uptime purposes. You would go up into the air and be immune to AOEs and on the ground would be a marker you could slightly control like the PVP LB. If the target marker turns red then the AOE will still hit you (so certain mechanics) can't be cheesed.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

With all the talk of a rework on the horizon for 7.0, what would people think of Dragoon becoming the 'red mage' of the melee classes?

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Absolutely awful, didn't need to rest past that part.

I fully understand that people love the current version of DRG and I even agree, it is the best state it has ever been.

But the problem is: What is Dragoon supposed to get in the next 10 years down the line?

They already explained: the reason for the rework isn't to fix a problem with the current kit, it is to widen the options for what they can add in the future.

Ofc there is the fear that it may just end up ultra-watered down like Dark Knight got since 5.0 and remained to this day, but that rework happened as a result to simplify the job from Stormblood's state - arguably the worst thing they could have done when all they had to do was increase the MP cost of Dark Arts and adjust potencies to lower the "spam" of Dark Arts.

But yeah, you have to face it - you are not going to like 10 years of essentially getting "an extra charge here, an extra charge there, some bonus potency here" in the future and that's what the rework is essentially aiming to deal with.

Pray.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I fully understand that people love the current version of DRG and I even agree, it is the best state it has ever been.

But the problem is: What is Dragoon supposed to get in the next 10 years down the line?

They already explained: the reason for the rework isn't to fix a problem with the current kit, it is to widen the options for what they can add in the future.

Ofc there is the fear that it may just end up ultra-watered down like Dark Knight got since 5.0 and remained to this day, but that rework happened as a result to simplify the job from Stormblood's state - arguably the worst thing they could have done when all they had to do was increase the MP cost of Dark Arts and adjust potencies to lower the "spam" of Dark Arts.

But yeah, you have to face it - you are not going to like 10 years of essentially getting "an extra charge here, an extra charge there, some bonus potency here" in the future and that's what the rework is essentially aiming to deal with.

Pray.

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Yeah, no, this is a stupid line of thought. Trust me, no one who actually mains dragoon wants them to uproot the entire job just to look busy, that's your pearl clutching. There are going to be new QoL and game mechanics that will be added to the current framework, don't worry about that. Down the 10 year line they'll come up with a genuine big new idea for DRG too, that's actually worth implementing and not just change for change sake.

And by this logic every single job has to be constantly reworked, when the team has clearly shown they struggle with actually finishing even 1 full rework on top of adding new jobs. Even if they "just have to" rework finished jobs a few at a time, it's obviously an untenable effort.

Leave it like it is, little changes here and there will be perfectly fine. No one was up in arms about SAM basically having identical loop between 5.0 and 6.0. It was when they (among hundred other excuses) bought into this future-proofing nonsense that hell broke loose.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

And by this logic every single job has to be constantly reworked

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Precisely. I don't understand bringing up this topic for DRG only all the time.

All jobs are in this position. What do they add to them in the next two or three expansions? Most jobs are already quite full either in their gameplay or hotbars, so this idea should be applied to every single one of them.

There's still room for DRG to grow for at least 1-2 expansions.

I don't mind if they want to take something to give something else or rethink the kit, but they must do so in order to make it better. At the beginning of an expansion, and taking into account what makes DRG unique among the other jobs.

Anything else will be going the SMN route of starting from zero, and if that's gonna happen, then they can do with with all jobs and not just a couple of them that apparently only have this issue when it's literally most of them.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

With all the talk of a rework on the horizon for 7.0, what would people think of Dragoon becoming the 'red mage' of the melee classes?

A hybrid Melee/Ranged job that executes jumps in and out of melee range while executing a melee and ranged rotation.

A basic 1, 2, 3 Combo

A continuation combo that ends in a backflip out of melee range and activates the secondary ranged combo (Overwriting the melee combo buttons)

A ranged 1, 2, 3 combo that Throws the spear and activates Life of the Dragon at the end.

Life of the Dragon burst window, where you can Stardiver every GCD and weave other jumps in-between each cast, stacking a buff each time a dive is landed. (Think enshroud for reaper)

End of burst window, Stardiver Becomes Ahk Morn, summoning an effigy of Nidhogg to expend all stacks in a bursty AOE channel.

Geirskogal, Nastrond and Wyrmwind Thrust replace the standard AOE combo during life of the dragon

Dragonsight changed to 5% damage for all party members
Lance charge flat out removed
Battle Litany remains as it is now.

Thoughts?

Dragoon is pretty boring as it is, and i feel like the use of a spear as a melee only weapon is a huge waste of potential.

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No. That's my thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

With all the talk of a rework on the horizon for 7.0, what would people think of Dragoon becoming the 'red mage' of the melee classes?

A hybrid Melee/Ranged job that executes jumps in and out of melee range while executing a melee and ranged rotation.

A basic 1, 2, 3 Combo

A continuation combo that ends in a backflip out of melee range and activates the secondary ranged combo (Overwriting the melee combo buttons)

A ranged 1, 2, 3 combo that Throws the spear and activates Life of the Dragon at the end.

Life of the Dragon burst window, where you can Stardiver every GCD and weave other jumps in-between each cast, stacking a buff each time a dive is landed. (Think enshroud for reaper)

End of burst window, Stardiver Becomes Ahk Morn, summoning an effigy of Nidhogg to expend all stacks in a bursty AOE channel.

Geirskogal, Nastrond and Wyrmwind Thrust replace the standard AOE combo during life of the dragon

Dragonsight changed to 5% damage for all party members
Lance charge flat out removed
Battle Litany remains as it is now.

Thoughts?

Dragoon is pretty boring as it is, and i feel like the use of a spear as a melee only weapon is a huge waste of potential.

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There already is such a class, it's called Ninja