No skill should do more than 50% HP in PVP

There is no reason for any skill LB or not to do more than 50% HP let alone 80-90%

It is one thing to change pvp to get a more casual player, it is totally another to have completely brain dead mechanics, and abilities.

A singular skill dealing lots of damage wouldn't be too bad if most of them didn't either snapshot or disable you in one way or another, making the counterplay a lot harder.

You can see stuff like people avoiding hitting SAM when they have LB up or trying to bait them to waste their counter, but you can't do much about MNK training your ass aside from trying to get close enough to teammates for them to peel.

Stuff like MCH LB and RDM combo finisher snapshotting means you can die to them even when you are trying to pre-emptively guard.

I guess they could try to tune things down, but then immortal comps would probably go up as finishing people becomes harder. A lot of the issues stems from the game engine and netcode itself, server ticks can result in very unintuitive outcomes like being able to finish elixir through some hits if its close enough to end the cast.

Attacks having the potential to deal around 50% of your max HP alone isn't bad AS LONG AS THERE'S COUNTERPLAY, something half the damaging LBs lack. Samurai LB goes through guard, ninja LB just oneshots at half HP through guard and also snapshots so even getting healed above half your HP won't matter, monk straight up gets extra damage when you hit someone who's guarding along with an animation lock during which you can use purify for some reason. It's shit design, but that's just my opinion

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Attacks having the potential to deal around 50% of your max HP alone isn't bad AS LONG AS THERE'S COUNTERPLAY

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This. Limit breaks are basically ultimates in fighting games, and I have no problem with the concept in and of itself. However, like those games, all LBs should at least have counterplay against it so it does feel like a "push to win" move, which I think is where core complaints stem from (even if those people don't realize it).

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Attacks having the potential to deal around 50% of your max HP alone isn't bad AS LONG AS THERE'S COUNTERPLAY, something half the damaging LBs lack. Samurai LB goes through guard, ninja LB just oneshots at half HP through guard and also snapshots so even getting healed above half your HP won't matter, monk straight up gets extra damage when you hit someone who's guarding along with an animation lock during which you can use purify for some reason. It's shit design, but that's just my opinion

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Ya LB's going through guard, especially ones that can one shot you are really annoying. LB's like RPR breaking guard is fine, but sam and nin LB's going through guard is dumb.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Ya LB's going through guard, especially ones that can one shot you are really annoying. LB's like RPR breaking guard is fine, but sam and nin LB's going through guard is dumb.

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Guard only boosts defense though. NIN's LB is hp related regardless of stat boosters.

I'm slightly confused with this post since most bursts can deal around 50% within a short time. Still, I'll rather deal with the LBs being mentioned here than MCH's Chainsaw. It doesn't change the fact that some needs a second evaluation.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Guard only boosts defense though. NIN's LB is hp related regardless of stat boosters.

I'm slightly confused with this post since most bursts can deal around 50% within a short time. Still, I'll rather deal with the LBs being mentioned here than MCH's Chainsaw. It doesn't change the fact that some needs a second evaluation.

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Its a 90% damage reduction. Its existence was clearly designed to counter play certain mechanics. The fact that some LB's can go through it and outright kill you makes its design pointless. LB's have limited counter play, which is why so many of them are broken.

Let's also not forget chainsaw's 3% insta-kill proc. There's basically no counter to this either, it's pure chance for it to happen and getting killed from it feels extremely cheap.

As for the Sam LB with people saying that you can play around it and just not hit a Sam with their shield up. Yeah, sort of but not always. With the way lag and server ticks work, it's entirely possible to get screwed regardless of how well you pay attention. You can somewhat game the slow tickrate and crappy netcode to time chiten at the same time as an enemy's attack to force them to hit you and them getting the debuff, leading to some really cheap kills. The chiten + LB combo is fine in theory, but in practice it's poorly applied because of how sluggish the game engine can be.

Pretty much I love getting 1 shot by a SAM who accidentally got hit by one of my AOE's while his Chiten animation its completely invisible unless I target him in between 20 people around. I love so much how their LB have like 20km Range and can take a fully party down meanwhile Kuzushi Effect cannot be dispelled.

Let's not forget the Chiten+Guard combo just in case you wanted to stun/silence him when they dive your raid.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Attacks having the potential to deal around 50% of your max HP alone isn't bad AS LONG AS THERE'S COUNTERPLAY, something half the damaging LBs lack. Samurai LB goes through guard, ninja LB just oneshots at half HP through guard and also snapshots so even getting healed above half your HP won't matter, monk straight up gets extra damage when you hit someone who's guarding along with an animation lock during which you can use purify for some reason. It's shit design, but that's just my opinion

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At least NIN's LB is easier to shut down. If the snapshot doesn't have you below 51% it barely does any damage, if they're killed/stunned/poly during the animation they lose the LB and their target lives. Only bright side of that one, it's very hard to chain with it due to that reason.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Let's also not forget chainsaw's 3% insta-kill proc. There's basically no counter to this either, it's pure chance for it to happen and getting killed from it feels extremely cheap.

As for the Sam LB with people saying that you can play around it and just not hit a Sam with their shield up. Yeah, sort of but not always. With the way lag and server ticks work, it's entirely possible to get screwed regardless of how well you pay attention. You can somewhat game the slow tickrate and crappy netcode to time chiten at the same time as an enemy's attack to force them to hit you and them getting the debuff, leading to some really cheap kills. The chiten + LB combo is fine in theory, but in practice it's poorly applied because of how sluggish the game engine can be.

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It cuts both ways (no pun intended). The server tick sometimes means your LB hits after Kuzushi expires or the other player gets out of range. It's actually a very fine line and I've had occasions where the LB completely whiffs even when I can see Kuzushi land and I'm right in the middle of people.

You can only really nerf burst if you rework Paladin guard and introduce healing reduction with certain spells. Right now, there are so many situations where if you can't burst someone out of existence it's gonna be guard, into defensive, into healpot, into paladin guard, into healer heal, into self heal, into healer heal, into self heal, into self heal, into guard, into paladin guard it's ridiculous how long a player can stay alive while being aggressive. Their idea of creating a non meta, where they don't have to care about comps just to throw everything overboard with paladin guard and healers just speaks for itself on how much experience the pvp team must have. Ultimately, this lead to a lot of games being resource fights rather than being smart or react at the right time.

If it’s not broken then the game isn’t fun to play. Sometimes you got to figure out how to solve that puzzle.

Boy-howdy, I sure wish Guard worked reliably against MCH's LB, getting two tapped from ranged is pretty stupid.

*weeps in BLM LB*
It's powerful sure but it's like driving a manual car when everyone else is using tiptronics.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Boy-howdy, I sure wish Guard worked reliably against MCH's LB, getting two tapped from ranged is pretty stupid.

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That's the day they introduce actually good netcode LMAO. Running a frame-intense pvp game mode on the same tick rate as all of pve is just straight up fucking dumb.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Boy-howdy, I sure wish Guard worked reliably against MCH's LB, getting two tapped from ranged is pretty stupid.

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But it isn't supposed to even work against it. If you have the LB animation appear on top of you it has already snapshotted. Only way to Guard that is predicting it or the MCH having a terrible luck with the server tick :p

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Originally Posted by Nanne

But it isn't supposed to even work against it. If you have the LB animation appear on top of you it has already snapshotted. Only way to Guard that is predicting it or the MCH having a terrible luck with the server tick :p

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If guarding on reaction to a ranged LB that does more than 50% of my HP isn't the right call, then whoever is in charge of balancing is much worse than I previously thought.

I have no problem with those dumb skills like Samurai LB, Chainsaw, and Ninja LB. My only gripe is that EVERYONE else should get it. Literally some jobs are so useless on FL and that if I see those in my alliance, I already know the match will lose.

I agree the new pvp adjustments have been extremely unbalanced. No MCH skill should one shot you through a shield as example. 3% rng is a joke as it is often.

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Originally Posted by Solaires

I agree the new pvp adjustments have been extremely unbalanced. No MCH skill should one shot you through a shield as example. 3% rng is a joke as it is often.

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Sorry did you try to post over a year ago and the post didn't go through until today? The 3%-meme from Chainsaw is long gone and replaced with double damage on targets below 50% HP.

That or you're taking a jab at these takes then by all means.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

, monk straight up gets extra damage when you hit someone who's guarding along with an animation lock during which you can use purify for some reason. It's shit design, but that's just my opinion

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I could be wrong, but doesn't it only do bonus damage when you aren't guarding?

Otherwise it's just 12k damage.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

I could be wrong, but doesn't it only do bonus damage when you aren't guarding?

Otherwise it's just 12k damage.

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It looks like the intention is +12000 without Guard, however I feel like remembering it takes down the Guard effect first and then confirms a lack of Guard after to deal the bonus 12000 damage.

Unless you are testing it before I get home I will test it later this evening and share my findings here.

It's always been 24k, guard or no guard, and the tooltip is greatly misleading.

Tooltips in ff14 not being accurate? BAKANA?!

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

Tooltips in ff14 not being accurate? BAKANA?!

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I mean hey the real meme ones at the start of 6.1 were these two.

Intervene, supposed to stun for 2s (which likely would've justified the low damage of PLD

Salted Earth DOT providing +10% dmg taken

Actual knee slapper.

They're usually pretty good. I was annoyed this thread was necroed but Meteodrive's tooltip isn't really misleading so much as blatantly wrong, to the point where it should probably be reported as a bug. Dunno if it reads as wrong in other languages.

Rushes target and delivers an attack with a potency of 12,000.
Additional Effect: Removes target's Guard
Additional Effect: Afflicts target with Meteodrive, rendering them unable to move
Duration: 3s
If target does not have an active Guard effect, deals additional damage with a potency of 12,000.
Effect cannot be applied to players riding machina or non-player combatants.
Can only be executed when the limit gauge is full.
Gauge Charge Time: 75s
Cannot be executed while bound.

This sounds like it will check for Guard when executed to apply the additional damage, but it doesn't. If it checks at all, it's after the debuff removes Guard.

To whit, Meteodrive ACTUALLY does four things and in this sequence:
Dashes to your target
Removes Guard from target
Locks down a target's movement and action for 3 seconds (and your own) with debuff 'Meteodrive' while dealing three 'DoT damage' hits on the target, 4k per second, physical, unnamed, totalling 12,000 damage
Deals a final 12,000 at the end, listed as "Meteodrive", physical

It's able to deal 24000 before considering shields or %modifiers from actions like Honing Dance. Guard's presence or absence cannot affect this damage at all.

I'm not sure how the extra potential 8k from Pressure Point from Enlightenment factors in, if it's applied to the DoT or the flat final hit or if it's possibly mitigated by Guard. I haven't gotten around to playing Monk yet so I'm test it out a bit later, if no one knows that can mention here.

Seems like having some threads for each job that exist to just inform players and not just complain under the pretext of 'discussion' might be a good idea.