Please.
For the love of god.
Bring back the one, the only...
https://i.imgur.com/RB85HI5.png
It's never going off my hotbar, and honestly, I'm not playing SAM in the current state. It was the last melee job I truly enjoyed until the 6.1 changes given that all the other classes I loved were trounced as well. In some cases worse than SAM *cough* DRK *cough*.
I realize this doesn't add much to the forums but if there's a chance Square will address the billion kaiten threads, I'll throw my virtual katana in the pile.
I wonder what SAM mains are playing now. Did you stick with it or changed to something else? I think BLM and NIN are something I might enjoy gameplay wise but the aesthetics and class moods are just not for me, never liked being a mage or shinobi much.
Just Another Samurai Thread About "That"
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07-31-2022, 01:36 PMTetsujinJust Another Samurai Thread About "That"
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07-31-2022, 03:11 PMAvenheit
kaiten changes might not been so yucky if the combat direction (forced 2minute burst) wasn't so unsatisfying compared to ShB.
I'm sitting thinking about if I had to play another class, what would it be and realising that I just don't really care for other classes. Real Boredom thing goin on, the only real tank i loved (GNB) gained a really gross rotation. RPR and SAM both have really gross skill drift. SMN rotation is now super boring and I have no drive for the other 2 casters. Game is hurting so much more than people wanna realise. -
07-31-2022, 11:18 PMTetsujinAllow me to take the liberty and ask something only semi-related. What happened with NIN? I was under the impression that the reason everyone had 2m bursts now was to better mesh with trick-attack and bard buffs and such, but mostly trick attack. So no class really had a ton more synergy with others? Now I see people talking about trick attack being changed/no longer giving party wide damage. What's going on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenheit
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07-31-2022, 11:54 PMQuorTA used to be a 60s cooldown skill that applied a debuff that boosted damage done to the target by 5% for 15s. NIN also had an oGCD called Mug that would give them 40 Ninki when used, on a 2 minute cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsujin
In 6.1, those skills were swapped basically. TA is still 60s and is still activated the same was as before, but only provides a personal damage buff to the NIN instead of being a debuff that others in the raid can capitalize on. Mug now, in addition to boosting Ninki by 40, also applies the 5% damage debuff that TA used to provide, but on a 2 minute cooldown instead of 60s. So all in all, NIN got a small personal damage boost in exchange for cutting their raid buff damage contribution roughly in half. The reasons given for this were as suspect as the reasons given for Kaiten removal, and about as well received. -
08-01-2022, 12:03 AMGoatOfWar
You think you've got it bad? Healers have been reduced to 1 button jobs over the years.
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08-01-2022, 12:28 AMQuorYes but saying it like that does nothing. Internecine job wars get nothing done. The changes from 6.1 have caused an outcry not just for the reversion of SAM and NIN but for an entirely new direction to be taken away from the "race to the bottom" mindset that has long permeated tank and healer design.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatOfWar
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08-01-2022, 01:55 AMICountFrom0
You made another tread, instead of posting in the megathread, when community managers have said that ONLY megathreads get changes made.
Why? -
08-01-2022, 03:09 AMxAFROxSo which of the many SAM threads has been determined as the megathread to post in for changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
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08-01-2022, 03:10 AMKabooaCeleste or Roxus, judging by page count.Quote:
Originally Posted by xAFROx
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08-01-2022, 03:12 AMxAFROxHm, hard to say. Guess that's why folks keep making moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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08-01-2022, 04:42 AMQuorThey can say it as much as they'd like. If they're going to treat us like children then we'll take our business elsewhere. If they can't be bothered to look through multiple threads then they are not suited for their jobs. This is the internet; you're going to have multiple threads made about things, particularly controversial things that are seen by a large portion of players as being "adversarial." You either accept that as a fact of life or you move on to another line of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
But really, the biggest point against "only megathreads lead to changes" is the 1.0-to-2.0 transition in and of itself. There was nowhere near a single "megathread" and eventually we got 2.0 from it, and if they're just going to try and put things back in the box so to speak then that will blow up in their faces spectacularly. I know for a fact that I've got more experience and time put into this game than most of the community managers do. Many of them did not even exist during 1.0 while I was there since the first beta, giving feedback (polite, thought-out feedback, just so we're clear), testing the game from a variety of angles and so forth. I did the same thing when I was invited for alpha/beta testing of 2.0. I will continue to do the same thing here. If a new thread needs to be made, by myself or by someone else, then it will be made. If the community management team is incapable of accepting that feedback then that's on them. I am doing what I do for free, out of a love for the game. They are being paid for it. -
08-01-2022, 05:03 AMCelestiCer
Read the guidelines (again), no rules to be found where we must abide to Mega-Threads.
My assumption is this is being said to tackle overlapping Forum clutter which is Square's fault for not making sub-sections for Melee DPS / Phys.Ranged / Magic.Ranged. We're all cramped into just DPS.
Also ironic. The OP join date is 2015 and has not even an " OUNCE " of total posts compared to those complaining about making the OP post in a Mega-thread which I assume is cause of forum litter. Perhaps OP is not a frequent poster/reader to know the unwritten/unexpected rules of common courtesy no one needs to abide by, i.e Mega-Threads.
Next to the 30th now Healer post on a SAM thread, I don't believe 1 job should suffer to improve another? But how about keeping healer topics in healer threads and DPS in DPS once. Pile that unwritten rule up next to " Post only in Mega-Threads " btw, we're not here to compare how much more flaccid our gameplay has become against one another no...
Anyone ever wondered? that perhaps this many threads on a singular topic? is the Communities feedback way of saying " Square, you done F'kd up ". Or at least the NA version since now we have multiple-threads and we have the JP method of a Mega-Thread.
I want Kaiten back, I want Square to know that they FK'd up with 6.1 patch. And so far that Mega-Thread on the JP forums has yet to make the Dev's and/or Yoshi address it directly. They of course know of it, but they are turning blind eye acting deaf. So at this point? I'll take any method any thread any post, cause Samurai as of now? is a farcry of how fun it used to be. -
08-01-2022, 05:42 AMFlashy
I've moved on to dual-main RPR/DRG. I'm going to tune in for the liveletter, but I do not have the SAM job crystal on my bar at the moment.
For me to play SAM again, they would have to do 3 things
Bring back Kaiten
Revert the crit changes so that we have our synergy back with other buff jobs
Restore the potency they shifted into our combos back into our midare and namikiri. There should be a reason (high potency) I'm building 8 GCDs with a castbar at the end to use a Midare
I doubt they will do any of these things, so I'll just play something else even if I don't find RPR or DRG anywhere near as fun as 6.08 SAM -
08-01-2022, 09:32 AMxAFROxKeep in mind they're adjusting the way crit buffs work to bring back synergy. That was touched upon in the previous live letter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy
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08-01-2022, 07:39 PMTetsujin
I had to use SAM again today and I want to complain a bit more, and since this is my self-made whining ground, I have to say...
Why is Tenka Goken a radial AoE now? Seems every cone AoE is/has been turning into a circle, why the cone hate? Genuinely who was asking to make their conal AoE into a circle, ever? I keep positioning to hit with the cone and I get this tiny, nonsense cone attack with an obviously frontal move animation. It blows. I know it may seem asinine but details matter. Let classes play and position different through AoEs and so on.
I think you guys have it horrible, I don't know how you still play those classes. I tried my first healing class since HW with SGE and... whew. That was supposed to be the active, damage healer too lol. I hope they are made more fun to play, there's room for us both to complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatOfWar
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08-01-2022, 08:18 PMCelestiCer" The 6.1 change from Cone to non-Target Circular feels terrible ".Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsujin
Who suffered the most with the old Tenka Goken?
No one. Seriously, name any content that Samurai couldn't finish with a the old Tenka Goken? No one was held back.
Did it actually improve Gameplay?
No. It simplified it, while properly executing it being less rewarding in both damage and in how many targets you can hit, while also being not as fun nor good to aim with " factually speaking " since this has been debunked with measurements on another thread.
Coupled with Kaiten removal?
I mean why make it dumber when you can " Go beyond! Plus Ultra-Dumber "
What about Auto-Crit Tenka Goken?
What about it? They added it to Iaijutsu's and Ogi-Namikiri, they nerfed Tenka Goken potency and forgot to even add it to Tenka Goken. Nerfed.
Lv52 to Lv62 content has what for Kenki Spending? Well...
As you do low level content to do Tenka Goken AoE rotation? your Kenki spending between those 2 level points is now " Shinten " because you cannot amplify Tenka Goken with Kaiten nor can you execute Kyuten since it's AoE that you won't have yet and Shinten is single target, ruining even this part of the game...
TLDR- No one asked, nor suffered any amount to have it change to circle
- No one was held back before to clear any content from it being a cone
- No one is clearing any content that much easier with the changes
- No gameplay improvement plus our AoE is nerfed
- It didn't fix any problem that a was already non-existing
Lastly, take this opinion as someone who used to play non-stop Korean/Asian grind-style MMO games for years... SAM AoE was fun and there for even relaxing, almost borderline therapeutic, doing fates for 8 hours joining random parties this was fun. 6.1 changes? has ruined AoE satisfaction so badly for SAM that I have not touched a Dungeon anymore until I choose to just never use the skill. I have not done a single fate since 6.1 changes. It has made me quit AoE-ing... they managed to make it " that unfun " from what in my opinion used to be " perfect ". -
08-01-2022, 08:34 PMTetsujinKeep doing god's work. I'm leveling a DRG and/or MNK to get off SAM ASAP, it feels disastrous after I've come back and had to experience it in 6.1. Praying they say anything about it in the upcoming liveletter, even better just revert it. Even if it became F tier, I'd take it. If I had it my way, I'd almost just copy paste SB Samurai's kit into our level 90 but that's admittedly little extreme and silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestiCer
Just please, get us off this mediocre, unsightly ride. We had a really fun class with a LOT of punch at one point. Now all the impact, flow, and most importantly FUN is gone.
Fun> Balance>>>>>>> "ease of access", which is almost always an excuse to dumb things down considerably. See fighting games. -
08-01-2022, 09:30 PMxAFROxLet's not forget that because it's a circle and a cast, the current most effective way to use it is to eat hits from every mob that wants to attack the tank. And then you remember the pitiful potency it has, you're better off burning all aoe Sen generated into kenki with Hagakure to spam kyuten between every hit while you run in and out like a cat with the zooms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsujin
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08-01-2022, 09:58 PMRyuuZeroYeah Kaiten also won't go from my Hotbar aswell, for the tooltip alone! (since it reminds us why Kenki even exists), I recommend to play Samurai in PvP though, there Kaiten still exists but as Buff that turns single target skills into AoE Skills which is okay for PvP, not for PvE! but the Counter Combo LimitBreak InstaKill feels so awesome when it hits!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsujin
I currently play to pay off a Debt that I have due to a Glamour Deal I made on an alt with another Player...
Ninja.. even though Trick Attack is now basicly old disembowel from Dragoon still feels true to it's Fantasy.. even if Hyosho Ranryu should be accessable alongside Kassatsu! -
08-01-2022, 11:55 PMQuorIt gets lost amidst all the Kaiten talk, but yes, the Tenka Goken change was absolutely terrible. In addition to the outright nerfing it received it is just not fun anymore. It flowed so smoothly, felt so good to pull off, but now it's the most boring thing in the world and literally nobody asked for it. Keep up the good fight Cel.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestiCer
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08-02-2022, 12:52 AMFlashyWhat are the possible paths that they could take in regards to crit buff synergy with autocrit skills?Quote:
Originally Posted by xAFROx
Like buffing crit damage instead of crit chance? or would it be something like buffing the crit stat in our profile (which i believe will still be good for SAM and everybody else) -
08-02-2022, 01:42 AMQuorMy own suspicion is that they'll be moving even further away from any type of buff synergy between the jobs. SE has been working very hard, for good and for ill, to ensure no dominant meta composition is established as far as raids go. There's good reason for this; back in Stormblood, there was a significant period of time where six jobs were basically hard-locked into a raid due to buff synergy. WAR/NIN/SCH/AST/DRG/BRD were basically "required", leaving only a single tank and dps slot available as an option (which most often went to DRK and SMN respectively). WAR provided a slashing debuff that allowed NIN to skip their debuff combo in favor of their raw dps combo. WAR's debuff also buffed the other tank in the party by boosting their damage. NIN provided TA and aggro manipulation, allowing tanks to skip tank stance in favor of dps stance. AST provided the incredibly powerful Spread Balance buff, for a huge party-wide damage boost, while SCH and DRG both boosted crit rate via Chain Stratagem and Battle Litany. Lastly, BRD provided solid group buffs, including TP and MP refresh, in addition to dealing piercing damage, which allowed them to take advantage of the piercing debuff that DRG provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy
SMN brought a rez and a generic damage buff, so they were usually the preferred caster dps. DRK brought TBN which made it so healers could heal even less when dealing with tank busters and a handful of other mechanics, in addition to DRK being able to benefit from Mage's Ballad MP refresh during downtime, providing them an indirect damage boost.
Now, SMN and DRK weren't hard-locked in like the other six were, so you'd sometimes see RDM and PLD, particularly during prog. WHM was basically locked out of raids once prog was over because WHM was all about fixing mistakes through healing and if you were planning on a clear then healing was going to be kept to a minimum. SAM and BLM had a very tough time because a large portion of the raid community seemed to think that they were useless on account of not providing any meaningful group buffs (SAM gave a slashing debuff as well but WAR was so dominant that you basically never had a group without a WAR in it). MNK was like WHM; strong in prog and when at the lower end of the ilvl for a tier, thanks to how strong Mantra was, but ultimately hamstrung by Brotherhood being physical-only, meaning it had no effect on healer dps.
So in practical terms, MNK and WHM were froze out of raid groups after prog was finished and regular clearing had begun in earnest, while SAM and BLM were basically forgotten outside of friend-based statics. Pugging as a SAM or BLM was an effort in futility, despite the fact that they were the ones who could best take advantage of all those juicy raid buffs. It wasn't until the addition of rDPS on FFlogs that the larger, more idiotic-portion of the raiding playerbase finally understood what should have been obvious to them.
We....don't go to Ravenholmdon't talk about MCH. It worked....and it could work really well too. It just required such insane finesse and a super-low ping to pull it all off that it just wasn't worth it for most people. You also had to be comfortable with triple-weaving and loads of GCD clipping so the truth was most people just didn't bother with the job. It was the rarest job in high-end raiding by a large margin. But if you were into that thing it actually cranked out some pretty insane damage, with stuff like SAM openers pushing 6.5k and MCH openers cracking past 7k. It was just loads easier to get that 6.5k SAM opener than it was to get that 7k+ MCH opener (and SAM was by no means easy back then, what with four viable openers based on Sen usage timing and SkS tier).
So anyway, SE looked at what happened in SB and basically swore a blood oath to never let that happen again. Commendable, as party gatekeeping was a major thing that killed fun in FF11 for lots of people, but given their history, I think we'll see them go down the route of eliminating crit buff synergy altogether so as to ensure any given combination of jobs is equally viable. Whether that will be a good thing or not remains to be seen. -
08-02-2022, 03:45 AMFlashyThanks for that write-up. I started playing in 5.3 ShB so I never got to experience the game evolve (after reading what you typed up, it's more like devolve) into what it is todayQuote:
Originally Posted by Quor
So you think Battle Litany will become another Technical Finish, Chain stratagem will become another Mug Attack, and Devilment will maybe amp the standard finish 5% buff to x% for 20 seconds? I'm worried what 7.0 will look like -
08-02-2022, 04:04 AMRyuuZeroThe Only thing I'm looking forward to get out of 7.0 is the Single Target Ogi !!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Flashy
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08-02-2022, 05:29 AMxAFROxI think I recall them mentioning in the live letter that skills that give crit rate increase would give a small crit damage boost so that jobs with auto-crit skills would still get a benefit from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy
Considering SAM was a job that was basically fed every buff in the higher end duties, it being slapped with auto-crit made it not only a selfish job that only cares about itself, but one that no longer even played with the rest of the party.
I'm not a raider yet and I haven't been looking at party finder much, but I recall hearing some talk about excluding jobs again after 6.1 dropped. -
08-02-2022, 05:42 AMFlashyI only had problems entering -redacted- parties due to it hurting the score of other members like DRG, DNC, and SCH since I did not contribute to their crit buffs. But as far as just regular savage reclears it was fineQuote:
Originally Posted by xAFROx
But you're right about it being selfish in more than one way nowadays -
08-02-2022, 05:46 AMQuorLike Afro said it'll probably be crit damage boosting, but they could also just be general damage% increases. That's the easiest most boring thing to do but it will ensure that no "crit damage" meta ever takes hold. Everyone will just boost damage and that's that. Makes it super easy to balance but also means you're less likely to see someone kicked out because they "only" bring a dmg% buff instead of a crit dmg% buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy
They could also go the entirely personal buffing route similar to what they did with NIN. Which would be stupid imo, but hey, 6.1 SAM changes were also stupid and here we are.