Why are old PvP season rewards still locked out?

In PvE, content gets nerfed, unsynched, drop rate is increased, mog event are held, etc, everything is made so people can get old content reward easily and so that the content itself is still ran. Nothing is exclusive.

Why then are PvP mount that are like 7 years old now still not made available to people? It would be a simple thing to add them to the wolf collar exchange for a very high amount of token...

Why do PvP gets to keep exclusive items but PvE players don't?

Either things are sacred or they arent. I personally dont have a problem with extremely limited flex items like mounts or minions, but as you say, to have rewards diminish over time in pve by giving away old ex mounts and such, to then lock PvP stuff away feels like a strange decision. I suspect they will cycle them into the series pass as time goes on and the OG items will have some kind of ID in the item description for the people that obtained it back when it was new, but we'll see

Exclusive rewards, are simply there to invoke FOMO and funnel people into ranked, or PvP in general, to keep queues up.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Exclusive rewards, are simply there to invoke FOMO and funnel people into ranked, or PvP in general, to keep queues up.

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There's no need to do fomo anymore, even 2 months after the battle pass release PvP is still active
And tbf that's a false argument because PvP was still dead af despite the rewards, all it needed was a good rework update like the april one. If the goal is to get people to do PvP right now just put one of the season mount for a high amount of wolf collar and people will farm PvP like they never did, and grradually add the other mounts when the prrevious one has been massively bought

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Originally Posted by Xoxel

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I'm not arguing for FOMO, I hate FOMO, but it's clear that is most likely the intention. PvP rewards have always been, in my opinion, of significantly higher quality than much of the other items in the game. FOMO was probably more needed previously, because people - largely - didn't like the PvP, or didn't see it as approachable like CC. I'd also prefer to see rewards return than be permanently locked away. Not that I can ever do ranked since I don't have the ranked frames that say "1" on them. Wolf collar exchange would be fine. In my opinion, there is currently a severe lack of rewards for doing PvP or CC.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up coming back as series rewards.

Hopefully they will find something new to push for pvp activity. Imagine if you could apply an shiny effect of your choice to hellhound weapons for example that you would need crystal rating for, but it could also be done retroactively so you could come back in season 17 to do the first ones if you'd like.

They went on record saying they would never give out these rewards as they were intended for a specific selection of people.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

They went on record saying they would never give out these rewards as they were intended for a specific selection of people.

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As they have shown time and again, their word is not gospel. It could very well happen, and I hope it does. Personally, I don't trust most of what they say anymore.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

They went on record saying they would never give out these rewards as they were intended for a specific selection of people.

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Win traders lol gg

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Originally Posted by Canadane

They went on record saying they would never give out these rewards as they were intended for a specific selection of people.

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Boy, that Archfiend gear from the PvP season 1 ranked was really special. It would be a shame if people could just grind it out. :^)

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Originally Posted by Xoxel

In PvE, content gets nerfed, unsynched, drop rate is increased, mog event are held, etc, everything is made so people can get old content reward easily and so that the content itself is still ran. Nothing is exclusive.

Why then are PvP mount that are like 7 years old now still not made available to people? It would be a simple thing to add them to the wolf collar exchange for a very high amount of token...

Why do PvP gets to keep exclusive items but PvE players don't?

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Because PvE high-end raiding is a Challenge and you get a reward, whereas PvP Top 100 is a Competition and you earn a trophy.

You can cry FOMO all you want, if you weren't around for a competition held in 20XX competing against the best players of your datacenter in that season, you didnt earn the trophy.

You can also cry wintrading all you want, because wintrading isn't nearly as obnoxious as someone parking multiple alts on the leaderboard - I don't recall a season where 10-20% of the spots went to wintraders. Sooner blame the awful matching and scoring system.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Because PvE high-end raiding is a Challenge and you get a reward

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It isn't, if it was, only raider killing bosses synch on ilvl would be rewarded. But you still get all the EX and savage mount for headrolling at 90?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I don't recall a season where 10-20% of the spots went to wintraders. Sooner blame the awful matching and scoring system.

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I do remember people from Chaos's pvp discord claiming there was rampant wintrading in the top 30 back in Stormblood. But it was just as short-lived, and the overall reaction to it was "meh". Especially since the top 10 were all people who actually cared and worked hard for it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Xoxel

It isn't, if it was, only raider killing bosses synch on ilvl would be rewarded. But you still get all the EX and savage mount for headrolling at 90?

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You are missing the point. A challenge by design does not imply its' difficulty, because difficulty in a PVE fight is frankly subjective. PVE by its' very design is also intended to be done whenever, you aren't competing against anyone for rewards permanently.

PVP to the core is essentially a competition. Where the line is drawn in PVP is what constitutes as a participation reward (i.e. items that you can obtain even without winning at all, basically all Wolfmark and Battle Pass items), a Challenge reward (win-based achievements) or a Trophy (Top 100 rewards).

Noone is batting an eye over casual PvPers getting cool stuff, I'm very cool with the idea - but I despise the idea of re-distributing Top 100 rewards where a significant amount of players were trying their best to be on the leaderboard, only to tell them "you had it earlier than others, isnt that good enough?" or "you still know you did great, so we good?", like as if we are going to be ok with such a cheap consolation.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

PVP to the core is essentially a competition. Where the line is drawn in PVP is what constitutes as a participation reward (i.e. items that you can obtain even without winning at all, basically all Wolfmark and Battle Pass items), a Challenge reward (win-based achievements) or a Trophy (Top 100 rewards).

Noone is batting an eye over casual PvPers getting cool stuff, I'm very cool with the idea - but I despise the idea of re-distributing Top 100 rewards where a significant amount of players were trying their best to be on the leaderboard, only to tell them "you had it earlier than others, isnt that good enough?" or "you still know you did great, so we good?", like as if we are going to be ok with such a cheap consolation.

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False, ranking was working as if you reach the necessary rank you could never get unrank, I don't call that working hard

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Boy, that Archfiend gear from the PvP season 1 ranked was really special. It would be a shame if people could just grind it out. :^)

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We're talking the top 100 from The Feast, not Season malmstones.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

We're talking the top 100 from The Feast, not Season malmstones.

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He means those 2

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...oMRh3CgYGk.pnghttps://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...j1oHkS-Xgo.jpg

I for one, freak out every time I see another player with a Gaelicap. I mean, I used my artistic skills to enter a contest and won out of all those entries. It took a lot of time to make that drawing perfect. I worked very hard on it and therefore, only those who won should have it.

Just kidding, they could release it on the mog station tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

I think if anything, having extreme exclusivity turns people off from trying. Like if you saw a cool outfit and wondered where someone got it, once you knew it was attainable, wouldn't you also want to try for it? But if you knew not only could you NOT get it, but it would NEVER be available again, you'd just think, "well that entire mode can go kick rocks, what's the point?"

In other words, it doesn't really invite participation -- which is what you want MORE of in an MMO, not less.

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Originally Posted by Xoxel

False, ranking was working as if you reach the necessary rank you could never get unrank, I don't call that working hard

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You will have to play each season again to get back to the skilltier and rating you lost and every season the road to top 100 was an open game, because peoplr actually played early in a season.

I lost my chance at the Season 18 armour and had to obtain the one from Season 19 instead. In both I gave it my absolute all to BARELY get on the leaderboard by the end of the season.

Yes, those who are in the upper 30 are usually safe, after a while. But the bottom 30 is an actual battle and you will still fight whatever upper rank is still playing in an uphill battle in skill.

But yes, please go on and discredit those who actually put in the effort to get to those positions saying it wasn't hard... gee thanks.

Considerring a lot of wintrading was being done, yes, people will discredit.

And going by your logic, sure go ahead, discredit the effort we raiders do to kill a boss taking many hours of learning and training but hey that's fine if someone can get the same thing because they have 30 more level

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Because PvE high-end raiding is a Challenge and you get a reward.

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Yet 2 expansions later a solo player can enter that "high-end" instance and one shot everything. Why is that okay but giving old PvP rewards years later isn't ?

The prestige in PvE rewards revolves entirely from WHEN were they obtained. Being a Heavens' Legend now is much more prestigious than it will be in 4 years. I don't see why Feast should be an exception.

I wish they would put them in as a grind, maybe something like paying 20k wolf marks for a token then you trade-in say 10 tokens for the mount. Then I'd at least have something to spend my marks on, cause as of now I have literally nothing to buy (most of the gear is UGLY imo)

i'm really curious how many people having these old mounts and armour sets from ancient times (and only the top 100 from a season on each server) are still playing.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

i'm really curious how many people having these old mounts and armour sets from ancient times (and only the top 100 from a season on each server) are still playing.

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Thats the real question.
I wish I could see these things out in the world by these top 100s.

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Originally Posted by Xoxel

Considerring a lot of wintrading was being done, yes, people will discredit.

And going by your logic, sure go ahead, discredit the effort we raiders do to kill a boss taking many hours of learning and training but hey that's fine if someone can get the same thing because they have 30 more level

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What the...? I mean I don't mind continuing the discussion about the impact of wintrading vs legit players, but when and where did I discredit effort raiders put in to kill high-end fights? I never said "it is okay for PVE to just hand rewards to unsync players", I said that the difficulty is subjective and may vary due to other factors, which MAINLY revolve around the leniency of DPS checks - which are only a minor part of fight design, you still need to put in effort to learn the entire rest of the dance. If anything, I see it a failure on SE's end that there is zero distinction between someone who has done the fight at level sync (not to be confused with min itemlevel) and someone who is unsyncing the fight.

For crying out loud, I've been raiding since the beginning of Stormblood (4.05 Deltascape was my first raid tier), I've been learning and strategizing fights even past their patch. I am literally in the same boat.

So please, stop strawmanning and putting me out as a villain to the PVE community just because I have a very vocal stance on previous Top 100 rewards.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

Yet 2 expansions later a solo player can enter that "high-end" instance and one shot everything. Why is that okay but giving old PvP rewards years later isn't ?

The prestige in PvE rewards revolves entirely from WHEN were they obtained. Being a Heavens' Legend now is much more prestigious than it will be in 4 years. I don't see why Feast should be an exception.

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[1] I never said that this is okay, I even think that is a failure on SE's part that there is no distinction between those without having to rely on actual video footage proving it is a synced clear. But to make the distinction clear again:

PVP Ranked is a competition, you are competing against other players for a spot on the Top 100 leaderboard and the corresponding trophies. For the ranking to work, it needs an "end" to signify a time period a player was "part of the best in that season". Wintraders may put some serious stain on this, but again there are many legit players who fought very well, or at least I can attest so here on the Light datacenter.

PVE Raiding is a challenge of varying difficulty, you are fighting a boss. You are not competing against other players for the achievement and the reward from clearing this fight and thus there is no "end" to when you can do this challenge. Whether or not it is fair that TimmyTanker goes in two years later to get himself the 10 kills achievement and all the gear and there being no distinction between you and him other than third-party evidence is an entirely different debate.

The difference here is that a Trophy is meant to signify an achievement in a certain time period. PVE rewards are not Trophies. About the significance of their rewards, refer to my opinion at the start of [1].

[2] I heavily disagree. Surely, someone who clears the fight in the same tier it appears or even is part of the world first race is absolutely a chad, but to say a title like "Heavens' Legend" is relatively much less of a prestige 4 years down the line is very degrading to say. You still have to learn the fight pattern, react to randomised elements, learn to do your rotation with everything going on, communicate with your group on how to handle individual mechanics, and so on.

Sure, new jobs bringing heavily unbalanced kits for the corresponding level range a fight is in (Gunbreaker at 70 for instance) did skim some of the fat off, but clearing them is still a prestigeous achievement to this very day. So is clearing old Savages at their normal level.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Thats the real question.
I wish I could see these things out in the world by these top 100s.

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Can see your point (part of the reason I am wearing mine), but in the same way you aren't obliged to run around in your best suit of armour to display for other players we aren't obliged to wear ours <.< But nicely asking is usually always okay.

those mounts and gears in the feast rankings were a waste of resources since only 0.1% of the players could have gotten them, and it is unfair for new players not getting it anymore cause prestige or some bullshit, yoshi-p needs to let pvp go as a sort of holy thing he created

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

If anything, I see it a failure on SE's end that there is zero distinction between someone who has done the fight at level sync (not to be confused with min itemlevel) and someone who is unsyncing the fight.

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You know what, I agree with that. If raiders could be rewarded for their effort maybe people would be fine with PvPers being rewarded for their. Alas.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I heavily disagree. Surely, someone who clears the fight in the same tier it appears or even is part of the world first race is absolutely a chad, but to say a title like "Heavens' Legend" is relatively much less of a prestige 4 years down the line is very degrading to say. You still have to learn the fight pattern, react to randomised elements, learn to do your rotation with everything going on, communicate with your group on how to handle individual mechanics, and so on.

Sure, new jobs bringing heavily unbalanced kits for the corresponding level range a fight is in (Gunbreaker at 70 for instance) did skim some of the fat off, but clearing them is still a prestigeous achievement to this very day. So is clearing old Savages at their normal level.

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It still is but not as much anymore, job unbalance, spell rework, base potency increase, overgearing, all of which allows to skip some part of the fights and render DPS check so unsignificant that yo don't need to perform well on your job anymore. UwU is the biggest example, it's just being headrolled.
My team is still struggling on Nidstinien DPS check, as does a lot of team, you need to know your job perfectly. Some years down the line, it won't even be on the discussion table anymore.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

to say a title like "Heavens' Legend" is relatively much less of a prestige 4 years down the line is very degrading to say.

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People say that clearing UwU doesn't even count as doing Ultimate these days. Of course it still requires effort, nobody has implied that it doesn't, but ultimates DO get easier and its not degrading to say that.

Regarding the old Feast rewards, the issue surrounding them lies in the fact that they're entirely timegated. You could have been the biggest PvP god on the planet, but just because you weren't playing during a certain season, you would miss out on your potentially favorite reward. Unlike in PvE, there's no going back and doing it at min ilvl, or just unsyncing it. That is quite literally FOMO and is the only major case of it in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You are missing the point. A challenge by design does not imply its' difficulty, because difficulty in a PVE fight is frankly subjective. PVE by its' very design is also intended to be done whenever, you aren't competing against anyone for rewards permanently.

PVP to the core is essentially a competition. Where the line is drawn in PVP is what constitutes as a participation reward (i.e. items that you can obtain even without winning at all, basically all Wolfmark and Battle Pass items), a Challenge reward (win-based achievements) or a Trophy (Top 100 rewards).

Noone is batting an eye over casual PvPers getting cool stuff, I'm very cool with the idea - but I despise the idea of re-distributing Top 100 rewards where a significant amount of players were trying their best to be on the leaderboard, only to tell them "you had it earlier than others, isnt that good enough?" or "you still know you did great, so we good?", like as if we are going to be ok with such a cheap consolation.

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they shouldn't have locked such rewards for a trash PVP system. before the rework I can't blame people for not even playing PVP it was awful. basically a healing fest with WHM that never die. that's out of the way.. most of the stuff in this game loses value over time. people should be able to obtain old items that are unobtainable, sure you can have a title as a trophy.. fair and square but gating gear and equipment hell no... that screams bad design!

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

That is quite literally FOMO and is the only major case of it in FFXIV.

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There are plenty of things that are gone and something like Ishgard restoration was a big one too :p

I wouldn't be so upset about them no longer being obtainable if it weren't for the fact that these PVP-exclusive sets are some of the only All Classes Glams that are armoured, to varying degrees (some too much so, I'd argue, but regardless...). Meanwhile permanent additions to that category of items increasingly are just clothes, and not even ones that particularly fit within the game's universe, at that...