Abyssos Savege Delay One week after 6.2

What are your thoughts about it? For me, I think it's a good idea to do, since it gives players more time to do other content and gear up for Savage. I hope it does become a permanent thing for future x.2 and x.4 savage raids.

I've wanted this since Omega.
The stress of having to skip all the story and speed clear the normal ones just to jump into the loooooong progress of clearing savage with no time to make your own gear is tremendous.

I think it's a good idea.

Double-edged sword.

I'm happy because it allows for raiders to enjoy the patch to the fullest without necessarily needing to make a compromise on the story, be it the raid story or the main scenario. But on the other hand, as someone who crafts extensively on progression day, this is an absolute killer. Not that it'll kill the markets because it won't. But historically the patch day favored crafting in the earlier hours to get a significant amount of Gil. Something which I would argue to the death was unrivaled in terms of profit for that time, something like 4-7 hours to make 180M. Now it turns to favor volume crafting entirely. The problem here is making Gil via volume, there are far too many contenders that don't require nearly as much initial investment. E.g., I can do hunt trains, maps, Eureka, Bozja, or just general housing furniture crafting which has a good turn-over.

This kills the joy of patch day crafting for me personally, but I can see the greater benefit in it for raiders, although I personally believe it will significantly kill collaboration between crafters and raiders since everything will just be as cheap as can be, and the supply will be more than enough to cover demand (Historically to get the supply you would need to collaborate with crafters). Personally, I can just hope they compensate for this change by making the recipes significantly harder.

I love it, can do 6.2 non-savage content the first week freely. Can also have time to prepare and craft gear sets.

Doing savage first week was already draining enough. Felt good to logout after raid and rest after hours of prog. It'd normally take me weeks to muster enough energy to go through the patch stories, this will likely change to week one now.

Good.
I think even a lot of people going for World First will want to experience the story and have more time to prepare.

I am going to start prog on day 1 too and I want some time to prepare and do the story too.

I like a delay so that I can do the story without feeling rushed, but it means that we can see the mechanics and those of us who have played for a long time can use the normal mode mechanics to predict a lot of the savage mechanics and these predictions will improve with a week to think about it. It gives us time to gear up giving a greater advantage in savage.

One way to reduce the impact could be to delay the crafted gear, tomestone, extreme and normal raid drops so that there is not a gear advantage, but we'll still have time to predict a lot of the mechanics and practice the normal version.

For anyone that is confused how it can be used to predict the mechanics in savage, a lot normal mode mechanics make it into savage but without telegraphs. You might not notice that a lot of the mechanics in savage happen exactly the same in normal, but they do, they just feel very different without the telegraph or a reduced punishment. Most objects that appear automatically in normal get placed by players in savage.

im actually happy xD i used to skip the easy content to get into savage with my static

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I like a delay so that I can do the story without feeling rushed, but it means that we can see the mechanics and those of us who have played for a long time can use the normal mode mechanics to predict a lot of the savage mechanics and these predictions will improve with a week to think about it. It gives us time to gear up giving a greater advantage in savage.

One way to reduce the impact could be to delay the crafted gear, tomestone, extreme and normal raid drops so that there is not a gear advantage, but we'll still have time to predict a lot of the mechanics and practice the normal version.

For anyone that is confused how it can be used to predict the mechanics in savage, a lot normal mode mechanics make it into savage but without telegraphs. You might not notice that a lot of the mechanics in savage happen exactly the same in normal, but they do, they just feel very different without the telegraph or a reduced punishment. Most objects that appear automatically in normal get placed by players in savage.

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I don't think it makes that much of a difference. The lack of telegraph is far from being the hardest thing about day one savage, and good WF groups aren't going to wipe more than once because of that. And even if it did, a single recorded clear of normal mode is more than enough to remember all the name of the mechanics and debuffs.

Also, the fights which takes the more of the time are the third + fourth and those only have very superficial similarities with the normal mode.

I like it. Less stressful.

Very good, a lot of the people I've raided with over the years have expressed wanting something like this.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Also, the fights which takes the more of the time are the third + fourth and those only have very superficial similarities with the normal mode.

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I was doing the third normal mode and I noticed a lot of things that were also done in savage. Even the later phase, a bit, with the bird doing dark attacks, although many of them have more to them. What makes normal modes especially different is just how nobody will coordinate it the way they do in savage which gets a lot of people killed in P2N and P3N, but a static could use it that way to build muscle memory.

I used it for one of the first floors when I wasn't starting for a week and it translated really well. Everyone else in the savage party had not done any practice in normal so they were dying to basic untelegraphed aoes, but I had built muscle memory for all the cast names and how they hit and was able to avoid them right away.

I don't think that most people will actually practice the normal mode because they see it as a joke, so it won't be a problem. I'm just saying that they can and that if they do, they can infer a lot and build muscle memory.

thank goodness for the delay, I've been wanting it since i started raiding

Really good for people who want to raid on tuesdays

It's a good change, this give raiders time to enjoy the story and also not get ripped off by crafters charging exorbitant prices for their gear, which is simply a double win.

It's a good idea and one I've suggested multiple times as it'll actually level the playing field significantly for world progression teams as well as allowing streamers to make the most of the story side of things without having to rush through to get ready for prog.

It doesn't even need to be a full week really, a couple of days would achieve the same result.

100% upside. No REAL downside.

Given that this is usually one of the big things that cause maintenance not to end early it should also help with log in queues. Since the maintenance can end early and not everyone is kept waiting to charge in at the announced time. Might also mean that people do not feel the need to immediately log in. Because as a Savage raider you now have a whole week to do normal and then the big log in right on dot update comes. And that login queue will then not see the competition from the "story now!" people either. So probably more relaxed for more players.

While i dont do savage, im happy about the delay for ppl not having to hurry as much - and im glad the crafted gear is spread out more now (unless they intent to hold back that too...) so we dont have these first few days where its 20x the prices lol


Also for ppl who dont care about story it means they dont have to log during the patch rush.

Love it.

Couldn't care less about the day 1 crafting aspect and I was once almost a "crafter main". Crafting as an endgame is dead. Clinging to a design where crafting is only relevant for serious profit one or two days every 4 months would be ridiculous. It should be relevant for most of a patch, like it was in earlier expansions.

That said, now they have snuffed out that last spark for max level crafters, they really need to look into stabilizing crafting as a whole. I personally think a system that's almost designed for bots and allows players to skip Normal and Alliance raids entirely and have a Savage ready set handed on a plate for peanuts is terrible design. It undermines the gearing process. It makes crafting no longer worthwhile later in the patch. It's just less content overall. Making it worthwhile to run Normal, Alliance or craft a lot for gil just means people stay occupied and subbed longer, without requiring development time. I don't get why the devs tossed that away.

But I digress. The change is great. Nice chance to chill, enjoy the story and craft at a relaxed pace.

love it. i really hope they do this for every savage tier moving forward. making them release in the same day just makes me feel like i'm wasting time by, you know, watching the story cutscenes and doing the MSQ, which shouldn't ever happen. gives us more time to get ready for when savage actually drops too

It really makes the most sense for consistency. Like why delay the x.0 Savage to give people time to finish the story without pressure from their raid group, but not the other two? Sure there's less story in patches, but the pressure to skip it is still there.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

That said, now they have snuffed out that last spark for max level crafters, they really need to look into stabilizing crafting as a whole. I personally think a system that's almost designed for bots and allows players to skip Normal and Alliance raids entirely and have a Savage ready set handed on a plate for peanuts is terrible design. It undermines the gearing process. It makes crafting no longer worthwhile later in the patch. It's just less content overall. Making it worthwhile to run Normal, Alliance or craft a lot for gil just means people stay occupied and subbed longer, without requiring development time. I don't get why the devs tossed that away.

But I digress. The change is great. Nice chance to chill, enjoy the story and craft at a relaxed pace.

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You've got me thinking of crafters making upgrade kits to simply allow us to pentameld normal mode gear (and perhaps even savage drops?!) Regular crafted gear could be unlocked later as more of a catchup/alt option.

/think

I want to see how this will be implemented before I decide on how much I like it. Though in general I very much appreciate no longer having to rush story if I want to experience savage blind and without half of PF already demanding certain strats.

If they delay the new tomestones, new crafted raid gear, etc. to release at the same time as savage instead of normal mode (as they do on the 6.0 raids), and find good ways to prevent dataminers from figuring out things about Savage mode before it releases, then this will be absolutely perfect and should definitely be kept.

Though on the subject of theorycrafting for world first racers, I wonder if perhaps the delay should be longer than a week. As in, make the delay large enough that there is no real advantage for people who can take a week off to practice and theorycraft in normal mode vs. those who can't and will only do it on a more casual pace until savage actually releases. Expecting world first teams to take the same amount of time off for Savage that they tend to take off for Ultimates would be rather excessive.

I'm sure dataminers will be locked out; it'd be silly not to put savage in 6.21 or something.

And since this is a test, I don't mind if they keep tomestones/crafted still in 6.20 to see it's effects. Refinement can come fin 6.4x.

It's great! I hope they keep it up, 1 week is a perfect amount of delay.

Glad there is delay, less stress and I can craft my gear comfortably.

Super happy about this. I've always hated having to skip through story to get to raid now we can finally relax, watch cutscenes and have the option of running with fc members who don't do savage. Such a great change, I really hope SE continues this.

Obviously my feelings on it could change after it's actually done, but for now, I'm in favor. Having to rush gathering and crafting the set if i change jobs, and feeling required to run the normals on Tuesday morning before work was always stressy.

I think it's a good change. It gives me a week to get the crafted raid set made, as well as get the new extreme on farm and get a weapon from it to be more than ready for savage.

Unironically best thing announced in the live letter, I just wish it was two weeks instead of one.

I absolute love it, it was indeed the highlight of the liveletter, I wished for that since SB.

Doesn't affect me since I never have done any savage or care about it.

love it gives me time to chill with the patch before the rush with savage
I dont mind if tomes are delayed but hoping crafted sets are out same day as normal

I'm happy for my friends who crafts and raids.
They're always on a nervous wreck during raid patch days so I'm glad they could breathe a little with the change.

I think is good. Time enough to unlock all, get gear and meld it. No need to rush for savage.

You guys who are mentioning crafting, you realize that there is no reason not to delay savage in exactly the same way they've always done it in X.0 patches right?

Raiding crafted gear will be delayed a week too, as will the tomestome so people don't start the tier with a massive advantage. Savage release will still have a gathering and crafting rush to get everything ready in time. This just so that we can actually enjoy the story and other content leisurely, instead of being forced to drop everything for Raid.

The only anomaly is the trial weapon, because I don't see them delaying the extreme too (though they might)