6.2 Dragoon

Please don't destroy Dragoon in the upcoming patch, thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/9Wui4Q8.png

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Originally Posted by Hezhi

https://i.imgur.com/9Wui4Q8.png

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and before that was smn with 6.0

I'd add Ninja to the list too, despite its overwhelmingly strong DPS

Don't forget the community then white knighting and trying to gaslight you into liking the new changes by making you think that the changes were needed or didn't affect that much anyway.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

Please don't destroy Dragoon in the upcoming patch, thanks.

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I would be worried
Stay strong my dragoon friends

My expectation:

1) Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw replace True Thrust and are no longer placed on hot bars. Combo becomes:

True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> [Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw/Raiden Thrust] (same button) -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heavens' Thrust -> [Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust/Raiden Thrust] (same button) -> Disembowel (Repeat)


2) AoEs become CIRCLES!!!!!!!!!! :(


I honestly, can't think of anything else that they would do. Which is really scary tbh.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

2) AoEs become CIRCLES!!!!!!!!!! :(

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This is the one thing I expect them to leave alone. DRG has 6(!!) line AoEs and only 2 circle AoEs, which are both on a fairly long cool down. Lines are built so deeply into DRG that it has become its entire identity. Coerthan Torment and Wyrmwind Thrust doubled down on that.

If anything, I expect Dragonfire Dive and Stardiver to be combined into one skill, where DD upgrades to SD and gets a potency boost to compensate.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

My expectation:

1) Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw replace True Thrust and are no longer placed on hot bars. Combo becomes:

True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> [Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw/Raiden Thrust] (same button) -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heavens' Thrust -> [Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust/Raiden Thrust] (same button) -> Disembowel (Repeat)


2) AoEs become CIRCLES!!!!!!!!!! :(


I honestly, can't think of anything else that they would do. Which is really scary tbh.

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I mean, to be fair, Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust ARE the same button. They were poorly designed trash in Heavensward and not much has really changed now other than they aren't random garbage combo enders now. They're SET garbage combo enders. Always wondered why we got that instead of penta thrust to end combos or something. But, we'll just have to see what they'll do with dragoon. I mean if they make the whole life of the dragon thing actually interesting and not just passively built that'd be great, but after seeing how they screwed over samurai, I have little hope they'll do anything that'll be taken well by the players. Still, I definitely wouldn't complain if they removed F&C because its sister action just sort of came off to me as the devs rushing to meet a timeline for designing class abilities.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

My expectation:

1) Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw replace True Thrust and are no longer placed on hot bars. Combo becomes:

True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> [Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw/Raiden Thrust] (same button) -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heavens' Thrust -> [Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust/Raiden Thrust] (same button) -> Disembowel (Repeat)


2) AoEs become CIRCLES!!!!!!!!!! :(


I honestly, can't think of anything else that they would do. Which is really scary tbh.

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My personal bet:

Life Surge is removed and Heaven's Thrust becomes auto-crit

the one thing I'd be fine with changing is Dragon Sight. FFXIV's macros aren't well-known for their responsiveness, but they already mentioned in 6.1 live letter that they're unhappy with how busy the job is, so I don't think we can expect anything good.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

My personal bet:

Life Surge is removed and Heaven's Thrust becomes auto-crit

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Since SAM is not reverted it's literally not only this one but also Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust because you use surge on fang in opener (and wheeling is basically same).

Its funny to hear u guys meme about autocrits too because DRG getting more guaranteed crits would synergize against its own BL and I can totally see the current dev team do that

we are actually at the point of every new patch make us scary about how they gonna destroy our jobs (BLM not included), seriously, think about that is ridiculous.

the really safe option is become a BLM main, that way we can continue play the job without think about get destroyed in one patch.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I actually think DRG could lose a dmg cd.
I think three are perhaps too many not to mention Dragon Sight needs to target swap, I mean if people want to keep Dragon Sight because it's more unique then maybe just buff its damage and/ or make it a shorter cd or even just give Battle Litany a damage buff or merge Dragon Sight and Battle Litany into one buff I dunno there's so many different things that can be done.

DRG is already really busy having three cd's just feel a bit much.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I actually think DRG could lose a dmg cd.
I think three are perhaps too many not to mention Dragon Sight needs to target swap, I mean if people want to keep Dragon Sight because it's more unique then maybe just buff its damage and/ or make it a shorter cd or even just give Battle Litany a damage buff or merge Dragon Sight and Battle Litany into one buff I dunno there's so many different things that can be done.

DRG is already really busy having three cd's just feel a bit much.

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I am not angry, I am disappointed.

As an AST, who's about to also go through this with you, but has also gone through this multiple times before:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...eXLkw&usqp=CAU

(Seriously, though, all I can suggest is to really complain in game and out, if you really don't like whatever changes they drop on you. This is a DPS class, so they might actually give at least the tiniest of fucks.)

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

(Seriously, though, all I can suggest is to really complain in game and out, if you really don't like whatever changes they drop on you. This is a DPS class, so they might actually give at least the tiniest of fucks.)

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Honestly I doubt it. I think Endwalker is the DPS' time to take the L

As someone whose main healer is AST and current main dps DRG....yeah, I'm terrified by the upcoming patch.

I doubt they'll change line aoes, a lot of the skills this expansion added across classes are line aoes, so they seem to really love them.

But they say they wanna make it less busy, so I imagine the single target rotation dumbed down a lot (sigh). I have no clue how they'd do that though.

As a casual DRG player I wouldn't mind if they got rid of the buttons for Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust and put them on their respective combo button. That being said I am worried that Life Surge gets deleted akin to how Kaiten was and full thrust turned into an Auto Crit because making jobs synergize less with the design path SE has chosen is pretty par for the course for them.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

As a casual DRG player I wouldn't mind if they got rid of the buttons for Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust and put them on their respective combo button. That being said I am worried that Life Surge gets deleted akin to how Kaiten was and full thrust turned into an Auto Crit because making jobs synergize less with the design path SE has chosen is pretty par for the course for them.

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my main issue is when are they finally gonna realize that this shit with "let's change jobs each major patch" isn't going to work in the long term.
people are already anxious about the next 2 jobs that are on the chopping block (AST and DRG) SAM is currently still going strong in the outcry over Kaitens removal and just the general direction.
why not pool all of these reworks for 7.0, that would atleast avoid another endwalker job trailer disaster, where the only thing you would be interested in is ... reaper and sage, since the rest is basically more of the same.
only things that will stand out is the new actions added (like confiteor 2,3 and 4 for Paladin or monkey flip for Warrior)
this way players won't be blind sided by the random change (like Kaitens removal and the job feeling like it's hitting with foam swords)

also 1 very important thing that honestly, FF14 desperately needs.
an PUBLIC TEST SERVER! not talking about an PTS for actual content, just for testing job balancing, inbetween each major patch they'll add the proposed changes to an PTS and from there people can test them out (because honestly, some on the balance discord are 100x more knowledgable than the actual SE job balance staff)
this would fix a lot of issues right from the get go. (also anything you do won't transfer to the actual game obviously)

I don't play DRG aside from leveling it each expansion but I can imagine them turning DRG aoes into circles. SE logic: "War cone bad, old AST bad, Sam cone bad, not a circle? bad". It's sad because you know it isn't entirely impossible from prior experiences in this game.

As a former pre-ShB AST main (funny how they can't stop changing it so many years later), and from the general SAM discontent around these parts, I'd temper your expectations and assume it will not be an appreciated change.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

I am not angry, I am disappointed.

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At me?
Do you think that three dmg cd's is fun?
I really think that either Lance Charge could go or Battle Litany and Dragon Sight could be merged.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

I don't play DRG aside from leveling it each expansion but I can imagine them turning DRG aoes into circles. SE logic: "War cone bad, old AST bad, Sam cone bad, not a circle? bad". It's sad because you know it isn't entirely impossible from prior experiences in this game.

As a former pre-ShB AST main (funny how they can't stop changing it so many years later), and from the general SAM discontent around these parts, I'd temper your expectations and assume it will not be an appreciated change.

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I kinda liked moving around and lining up the AoE on SAM.
But I am also not too fuzzed about the circle thing, I view it as a convenience thing.

I care more about single target rotations too, AoE is just dungeon trash stuff.
But yeah imho I think people made too big of a deal out of the circle AoE changes, ultimately it's not the same thing as removing stuff or whatever.
It wasn't exactly a pressing issue or anything I ever thought of but I am not really upset about it either.

They did the same on MNK too and I do prefer it, part of that might be the faster gcd too tho.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

At me?
Do you think that three dmg cd's is fun?

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The entire point of DRG is the intensive weaving, so yeah?

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

The entire point of DRG is the intensive weaving, so yeah?

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To me weaving damage skills and damage buffs are very different tho, I don't find weaving Lance Charge particularly fun.
Life Surge can be fun because of the crits it's a directly more impactful thing.
But I find weaving three damage buffs to be a bit weird and meh because you're weaving so much that doesn't have any real direct feedback.

Weaving Nastrond or Wyrmwind Thrust on the other hand does have direct feedback and is fun to weave.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

To me weaving damage skills and damage buffs are very different tho, I don't find weaving Lance Charge particularly fun.
Life Surge can be fun because of the crits it's a directly more impactful thing.
But I find weaving three damage buffs to be a bit weird and meh because you're weaving so much that doesn't have any real direct feedback.

Weaving Nastrond or Wyrmwind Thrust on the other hand does have direct feedback and is fun to weave.

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Fair enough. But the short cooldowns do help the job engagement between bursts, while the long ones helps keep the burst busy. And both add alignment consideration compared to a fire-and-forget ability like Wyrmwind Thrust which does a whole lot less for the overall rotation. I could see some of the cooldowns be replaced, but I mean replaced by something equally engaging, not just removed wholesale.

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Originally Posted by WlyemR

Lines are built so deeply into DRG that it has become its entire identity

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I mean, the identity is "spear user". You can't really swing a spear in circles efficiently

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Originally Posted by Chris310

I mean, the identity is "spear user". You can't really swing a spear in circles efficiently

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To be fair katanas aren't supposed to be used for primarily thrusting, either. It's doable but not efficient.

On the topic, I just expect them to pare down skills they deem "extra". Dragonfire Dive, Life Surge, Merging Wheeling and Fang, off the top of my head. Lance Charge could be removed. Auto crits and potency shifts away from your Life phase.

TBH I fully expected Stardiver to be a flip-over from Dragonfire Dive and I personally wouldn't mind if that's where they went with it. Culling slots for skills you're using once or twice per minute is IMO the least sacrificial way to trim the amount of buttons if that is necessary.

It's occurred to me, if Life Surge gets removed like a lot of people expect, people who started with Lancer are gonna be even more bored then they already are. Like seriously, 26 levels of pressing two buttons total is gonna kill early game retention so fast.

Also if they turn Dragonfire Dive into an Aoe jump i'm gonna be furious.

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Originally Posted by CasterSvarog

Also if they turn Dragonfire Dive into an Aoe jump i'm gonna be furious.

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But... it literally already is? What are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by YellowLine

But... it literally already is? What are you talking about?

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i think they mean it shares a CD with Jump so it becomes the "Aoe Jump"

i just hope they dont make the class very boring by removing so many buttons... dragoon fells so good right know as a main class - i dont wanna reroll

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Originally Posted by CasterSvarog

It's occurred to me, if Life Surge gets removed like a lot of people expect, people who started with Lancer are gonna be even more bored then they already are. Like seriously, 26 levels of pressing two buttons total is gonna kill early game retention so fast.

Also if they turn Dragonfire Dive into an Aoe jump i'm gonna be furious.

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The job is not even busier than other jobs and the APM is still lower/equal to some like NIN, GNB or DRK. Nothing should be removed or reworked in the middle of the expansion, it should be done in 7.0 to make way for new things, if anything.

I personally don't wanna see DFD banished to dungeons. It should hit harder and/or give us resources/a proc to use a hard-hitting attack.

For Life Surge, what they could do in 7.0 is turn it into a weaponskill that goes on its own like Sonic Break with two charges that grants a scale. With a maximum of three scales but a WWT cost of two, it'd make things more interesting imho, though it'd also require some consideration due to Chaotic Spring's DoT duration.

I'm quite concerned for 6.2 but hopefully the changes won't hurt as much as we fear. I still cannot understand why jobs need to be changed in the middle of an expansion instead of near the end or at x.0, especially jobs no one complains about for the reasons stated here. The meme about BLM being untouchable feels too real sometimes...

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Originally Posted by stellahawke

and before that was smn with 6.0

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Nah, Summoner's fun. Actually feels like a Summoner now and not just some DoT factory with bad pet A.I.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Nah, Summoner's fun. Actually feels like a Summoner now and not just some DoT factory with bad pet A.I.

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I'm sorry to break this shocking news to you, but the bad pet AI is still there. They didn't fix that.

The only thing I can see changing about Dragoon is Dragon Sight, since it's fiddly and is always going to be combined with Battle Litany in short succession since they're both 120s multiplicative cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Nah, Summoner's fun. Actually feels like a Summoner now and not just some DoT factory with bad pet A.I.

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I also enjoy watching paint dry

Uh oh, I just started leveling Dragoon now and I really like it. Also the story is pretty good for it even though its strange to go back with the Estinien story after playing full EW and knowing him already :D

Maybe I will not get myself too invested into this job until next patch o.o

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Originally Posted by Corbeau

The only thing I can see changing about Dragoon is Dragon Sight, since it's fiddly and is always going to be combined with Battle Litany in short succession since they're both 120s multiplicative cooldowns.

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Imo I think that maybe it could just attach to the same target it last attached to.
That way you'd still have to target-swap the first time, but not the rest unless they die and you'd have to swap again.

Having to target swap everytime tho kinda sucks imo, especially since the targeting in the game can be wonky at times.

But yeah it could sorta be like the Dancer Partner thing where every time you use Dragon Sight it attaches to the partner.