Healers and Debuffs. Should they be taken care of Pre- 50?

So I was doing a guild heist today as DPS. The one with the bombs and the red flan can put you to sleep.

Well our other DPS was put to sleep, but the healer never Esuna'd them, and alas, they died in the AoE that happened afterward (IIRC Sleep they cast lasts about 30seconds).

I had let the healer know they needed to Esuna that sleep debuff off, yet they blamed us for dying in the bombs ... ehhhh

So that got me thinking. For those who are healers, do you remove debuffs (the ones with the bar on top) with Esuna? Do you ignore them if it's in a pre-50 dungeon?

Personally, I do my best to do Esuna all I can, especially the more dangerous ones. What do you do?

There's debuffs in this game? lmao.

I'll remove them as I know how annoying even simple debuffs like paralysis in early dungeons can be. It gets you used to doing it so you don't end up missing more dangerous debuffs you'll see later, such as Doom.

I cure them just for the sake of actually having to press another button.

I mean, very few of them actually hurt. A few uses of Doom, the sandworm boss in Cutter's Cry, sometimes paralysis gets annoying. Otherwise you can ignore the majority of debuffs. But it's something to do.

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Originally Posted by Espon

I'll remove them as I know how annoying even simple debuffs like paralysis in early dungeons can be. It gets you used to doing it so you don't end up missing more dangerous debuffs you'll see later, such as Doom.

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It is extremely rare to find circumstances where you can remove Doom, to be fair. I can think of, maybe, two. Doom is usually punishment for lack of mechanics or, more commonly, a forceful push to do mechanics in the first place. As a result, very unlikely to be Esuna'd.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

It is extremely rare to find circumstances where you can remove Doom, to be fair. I can think of, maybe, two. Doom is usually punishment for lack of mechanics or, more commonly, a forceful push to do mechanics in the first place. As a result, very unlikely to be Esuna'd.

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Doesn't mean it does not exist and people should be ready to remove them. I rather not let someone die to the first boss in The Dead Ends because they're new and don't know how the best way to avoid the AoEs.

The first boss in Dun Scaith will place Doom on random people, and the tankbuster from the final boss in Delibrum Reginae always inflicts Doom. Those have nothing to do with failing mechanics.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

So I was doing a guild heist today as DPS. The one with the bombs and the red flan can put you to sleep.

Well our other DPS was put to sleep, but the healer never Esuna'd them, and alas, they died in the AoE that happened afterward (IIRC Sleep they cast lasts about 30seconds).

I had let the healer know they needed to Esuna that sleep debuff off, yet they blamed us for dying in the bombs ... ehhhh

So that got me thinking. For those who are healers, do you remove debuffs (the ones with the bar on top) with Esuna? Do you ignore them if it's in a pre-50 dungeon?

Personally, I do my best to do Esuna all I can, especially the more dangerous ones. What do you do?

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Paralysis debuffs, sleep, old pacification, doom, throttle style stuff, absolutely gets Esuna'd. Even if it isn't always dangerous, it's annoying and sucks. I'll cleanse all of this out of habit.

Poison dots will depend, usually on the level of the content, early game dots can be pretty nasty relative to our healing kit at that point and are often worth dispelling, whereas a poison dot in an end game expert generally can be covered entirely by incidental healing from the likes of Asylum and Assize and thus really aren't worth worrying about.

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Originally Posted by Espon

Doesn't mean it does not exist and people should be ready to remove them. I rather not let someone die to the first boss in The Dead Ends because they're new and don't know how the best way to avoid the AoEs.

The first boss in Dun Scaith will place Doom on random people, and the tankbuster from the final boss in Delibrum Reginae always inflicts Doom. Those have nothing to do with failing mechanics.

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How I desperately wish this was relevant or played content, though it paints a pretty picture how far we have to reach to find status effects that are a danger.

If it's an Low DPS AOE Poison it's better to just cast another AOE than to Esuna everyone.

Everything else is pretty much worthy. ESPECIALLY if a DPS has Slow or Paralyze.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

What do you do?

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In that instance?
Laugh. Oops, I messed up, didn't Esuna in time, or there was stray architecture that made me get that NOT IN LINE OF SIGHT message (you'd be surprised), or I had to make a choice between who I save and who I don't and that player just wasn't one of the cute ones (I have very high standards).

I'll remove debuffs, sure. It's about the only thing we have left that isn't just an HP-goes-up or HP-goes-down button.

But sometimes you just don't notice in time, or something else is going on, or your arthritis kicks in and you can't move your arms/hands/wrists/fingers as quick as you want. Regardless of the reason, generally people don't like to admit their mistakes, have a laugh, and move on. It's that embarrassment Semhirrage talks about lately.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

It is extremely rare to find circumstances where you can remove Doom, to be fair. I can think of, maybe, two. Doom is usually punishment for lack of mechanics or, more commonly, a forceful push to do mechanics in the first place. As a result, very unlikely to be Esuna'd.

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Honestly, I think it's one you can cleanse more often than you think.

Doom comes in four variants, so far as I can tell. (Sometimes under different names.)

1. Doom which you can cleanse via Esuna. This can be actual Doom (as in Dun Scaith or the fight with the Queen in Delubrum Reginae, where the tankbuster also inflicts Doom) or the same mechanic under a different name (as with the first boss of the Dead Ends). Healers can cleanse this one, obviously.

2. Doom which you can cleanse via heal-to-full. Arguably the most common, and also one healers can deal with. Seat of Sacrifice, Orbonne Monastery (T.G Cid), final boss of the Dead Ends, etc. (Bonus points to the Dead Ends for being the only mainstream duty I can think of with two different variants of Doom, and the only duty I can think of at all that has two versions of Doom which can be cleansed.)

3. Doom which you can cleanse via environmental mechanics. Sunken Temple of Qarn, mister angry eyeball (Anghra Mainyu in World of Darkness), etc. Can also occur under different names, like Mortal Flame in the Grand Cosmos. Can sort of be cleansed by healers using Rescue, in the mechanic that I refer to as "the piano of gentle correction". (Because when rescuing those who didn't recognize Mortal Flame in the Grand Cosmos as an environmental Doom variant, the piano was a convenient piece of furniture to rescue them across.)

4. Doom which has no cure or counter, and where the healer's only option is to prepare to spend 2400 MP and pray Swiftcast is off cooldown. Sometimes it's just flat out "you have Doom, bye", but it often appears as stacks where you get one when you fail a mechanic. In that case it'll usually be Twice-Come Ruin (two stacks converts to Doom and kills you), or Thrice-Come Ruin (three stacks converts to Doom and kills you). Sometimes content will give you one stack of one of those to start with, or the way in which you resolve the mechanic requires you to take one stack. As with the others, it can appear under other names but functionally identical mechanics. Occasionally it'll be a variant meant to enforce a tank swap, as in the EX version of the Ultima Weapon fight, or the current Unreal.

So, three out of the four variants are ones a healer can cleanse in some way, though I grant the third one is kind of iffy at best since Rescue is janky and terrible.

That said, you're not wrong that we have seen a lot more of the fourth one in Shadowbringers and Endwalker. Twice-Come Ruin (with a timer) in Delubrum Reginae, and Thrice-Come Ruin (with no timer) in Delubrum savage... a number of mechanics in the 8-man savage fights that used Twice-Come or Thrice-Come Ruin, even a few instances in normal content.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Personally, I do my best to do Esuna all I can, especially the more dangerous ones. What do you do?

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Bolded part, in general.

I do however have a pet peeve on certain portion of encounter where I'd selectively NOT Esuna certain individuals, i.e.:

• Tanks and Physical Rangeds who do not Interject/Head Graze Chimera's Dragon's Voice & Puppet Bunker's adds after first boss.
• Whoever that decides to glue themselves to tanks in LotA Zombie Dragon and inflicted Disease via their breath attack.

Other than that, I'll still try to not let them die.

If you have anything that stops your dps (sleep, paralyze, petrification/slow) or is going to kill you (doom, doom, doom or the occassional heavy dot) I'll esuna if it allows me.

Otherwise have a HoT or an Essential Dignity. There's no reason to press esuna, really.

I don't play healer very often but I will try and cleanse debuffs such as Paralysis, Doom, Silence, and Slow.

Does it kill or hinder you (Doom/Paralysis/Sleep/etc) from performing your job? Esuna
Is it a negligible DoT (Poison/Burn)? Glare.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Paralysis debuffs, sleep, old pacification, doom, throttle style stuff, absolutely gets Esuna'd. Even if it isn't always dangerous, it's annoying and sucks. I'll cleanse all of this out of habit.

Poison dots will depend, usually on the level of the content, early game dots can be pretty nasty relative to our healing kit at that point and are often worth dispelling, whereas a poison dot in an end game expert generally can be covered entirely by incidental healing from the likes of Asylum and Assize and thus really aren't worth worrying about.

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Hot take(?) - I'd like debuffs to come back/actually matter. A dot in ARR hurts because our hp bars are low and they tick off for like 10% of hp or more, a dot in higher levels - which are already few and far between - ticks for a pixel of hp and isn't even worth worrying about.

It's rather ironic that ARR, where healers are at their bare minimum, has more engaging/involved mechanics to watch out for, but as we level up and gain a whole arsenal of ogcds and cds to prepare for any mechanics... they're no longer there, or are applied exclusively if someone failed a mechanic, rather than just something the enemy does from time to time.

Actually true, the most nasty debuffs, even in low level dungeon are what we call Crowd Control. Paralysis, Slow, Heavy or anything that alter either your dps or survivability should be cleansed.

A strong Poison debuff must be cleansed too, if it's possible to do so. If the dot is light, I don't think it matters to dispel it or not

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Hot take(?) - I'd like debuffs to come back/actually matter. A dot in ARR hurts because our hp bars are low and they tick off for like 10% of hp or more, a dot in higher levels - which are already few and far between - ticks for a pixel of hp and isn't even worth worrying about.

It's rather ironic that ARR, where healers are at their bare minimum, has more engaging/involved mechanics to watch out for, but as we level up and gain a whole arsenal of ogcds and cds to prepare for any mechanics... they're no longer there, or are applied exclusively if someone failed a mechanic, rather than just something the enemy does from time to time.

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Hardly a hot take imho. It's an avenue of healer engagement that SE simply seem to have forgotten about =(

I Esuna mostly everything though some things such as poison is mostly pointless I remember Tam Tara mini bosses do a poison debuff, but they used it so often that if you used Esuna they would just debuff repeatedly, so it was pointless to remove the debuff and just heal once the players got low on health not that it really mattered since those things die fast enough anyways.

My priorities for debuffing are always removing things such as paralyze since if the dps can’t dps well things aren’t dying, as well as movement slowing debuffs as it’s very irritating for anyone to be in that situation. Of course any debuff that automatically if not cured would kill a player get immediate attention.

I would say more than Esuna what I see in high levels is a lack of healers shielding players when they have made a mistake and get a dot debuff. Yea I know they made a mistake but it’s your job to keep them alive.

Hmm. Can press one button (Regen or Esuna) to take care of debuff or allow the deeps to experience demise.

One increases our clear speed while other is detriment. Some with certain personality types should just stay away from playing healers.

Probably also yeet boy Interject from the hotbar because "I never use this anyways!" while everyone is comboed to death by ram's voice + dragon's voice. Mmm.

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Originally Posted by RayneBoemir

I would say more than Esuna what I see in high levels is a lack of healers shielding players when they have made a mistake and get a dot debuff. Yea I know they made a mistake but it’s your job to keep them alive.

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Dots are either negligible or will kill in a couple of tics, I'm not wasting a GCD or two minute CDs on shielding either of those as the shield will be pointless. At most I'll toss them Kardia and use Soteria and they can hope for the best.

people always forget the most important one, the nasty damage down from Titan Hard after being gaoled. its like 50% dmg down for 2mins. worst feeling in the world.

outside of that, Doom in Dun Scaith/Exdad normal get cleansed. i don't bother with DoTs really and Paralysis/Slow is a kinda maybe. mostly those come from mechanic failures though. outside of strange design choices like Shinryu Ex Judgement Bolt having a 15% chance to give Paralysis.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Hot take(?) - I'd like debuffs to come back/actually matter. A dot in ARR hurts because our hp bars are low and they tick off for like 10% of hp or more, a dot in higher levels - which are already few and far between - ticks for a pixel of hp and isn't even worth worrying about.

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There are still DoTs like that, albeit always in pretty high end content. E11S had some spicy DoTs, as did Delubrum Reginae's savage variant, and P4S phase 2's Heart Stake bleed is at least chonky enough that it should not be ignored. However, those are generally not those which you can Esuna; they're "heal through the mechanic" type DoTs.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

If the dot is light, I don't think it matters to dispel it or not

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I'd add another caveat as well: if the debuff will last a shorter time than it will take me to cleanse the party -- i.e., a 3 second debuff, when I'd be able to cleanse maybe one person, or a 10s debuff in 8-person content -- I'm not going to bother, or I'll cleanse just myself and the casters (and tank, potentially, if there's time).

And if there's impending damage that's a bigger threat, I will also deal with that instead of using Esuna.

Otherwise, yeah, if it's a debuff you can Esuna, I probably will.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

How I desperately wish this was relevant or played content, though it paints a pretty picture how far we have to reach to find status effects that are a danger.

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You mentioned Doom specifically - you were given multiple examples of Doom. That doesn't make it the only "dangerous" status effect, just a response to your specific claim. And Dun Scaith at least I still find myself running regularly through Alliance roulettes. DR is now more niche-content, but anything that's in a roulette is 100% "relevant and played" content.

Healers typically learn the hard way to cleanse debuffs.

https://i.imgur.com/BSmKHLx.png

The obvious solution is Veresuna.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

So I was doing a guild heist today as DPS. The one with the bombs and the red flan can put you to sleep.

Well our other DPS was put to sleep, but the healer never Esuna'd them, and alas, they died in the AoE that happened afterward (IIRC Sleep they cast lasts about 30seconds).

I had let the healer know they needed to Esuna that sleep debuff off, yet they blamed us for dying in the bombs ... ehhhh

So that got me thinking. For those who are healers, do you remove debuffs (the ones with the bar on top) with Esuna? Do you ignore them if it's in a pre-50 dungeon?

Personally, I do my best to do Esuna all I can, especially the more dangerous ones. What do you do?

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honestly im not that surprised

game does a lousy job of explaining debuff cleansing (probably not even mentioned? let alone the white bar thing)

but yeah long lasting, nasty debuffs need to be cleansed ASAP, a BLM with paralise will do negative dmg

to be safe, always just cleanse if u see something, unless the duration is incredibly short (i think there r some 3 sec silences out there), and quite often it is just a lousy dmg dot, if it's on a tank using that esuna gcd is not even worth it, just give them an extra oGCD if u even need to

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

game does a lousy job of explaining debuff cleansing (probably not even mentioned? let alone the white bar thing)

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This is 100% accurate: there are a lot of things which are basically "institutional knowledge" for long-time players but which many folks don't know and which the game does not make easily-discoverable.

The white bar atop a debuff denoting "this can be cleansed with Esuna", for instance.

The fact that any debuffs/buffs you set on someone that have a timer, the timer will be in pale green rather than white so you know it's yours (though the color difference is so slight that many people I know -- myself included -- cannot see it without looking very closely).

The fact that "Slow" (the debuff with a stopwatch icon) is a debuff that slows a target's cast times, while "Heavy" (the debuff with the icon I describe as "the person on all fours crushed under the weight of life's cruel indifference") slows movement. (Yes, the tooltip does explain which is which, but folks playing with controllers do not have an easy way to check a debuff tooltip to see what the description is.)

Etc.

There are a lot of things this game could stand to be a little more informative to new players about.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

For those who are healers, do you remove debuffs (the ones with the bar on top) with Esuna? Do you ignore them if it's in a pre-50 dungeon?

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Most cleansable debuffs do not need to be cleansed.

Does the debuff last longer than 8 seconds (approx. 3 GCDs)?

• No - not worth cleansing unless the dodging death question says so.
• Yes - not worth cleansing unless a yes to any of the other questions.

By the time I finish my current Dosis cast and use my next GCD to cast Esuna, the duration on the debuff would be between 0s and 3s anyway.

Is the debuff a Heavy/Bind/Sleep/OtherIncapacitation and will the debuff prevent someone from dodging an attack that will kill them?

• No - not worth cleansing unless the lost GCDs question says so.
• Yes - cast Esuna

Note the "and". I will ignore Heavy or Bind if I know getting hit won't kill them.

Will the target lose one or more GCDs if I don't cleanse the debuff?

• No - not worth cleansing unless the mechanics question says so.
• Yes - probably cast Esuna. A healer GCD is worth less damage than an equally geared and skilled tank or attacker GCD. If you've observed the other player making lots of mistakes with their basic GCD rotation, it may be more beneficial just to continue spamming Dosis.

Do mechanics require you to cleanse the debuff to prevent one or more deaths, whether by direct interaction with the debuff and mechanics or by indirect interaction such that the debuff will make handling an unrelated later mechanic more difficult?

• No - not worth cleansing.
• Yes - cast Esuna.

In the end a lot of it comes down to "will people die?"; but it depends on the fight. And once you've played through content enough times to know which debuffs are used in specific encounters you'll develop an understanding of which ones to ignore.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

So I was doing a guild heisthest today as DPS. The one with the bombs and the red flan can put you to sleep.

Well our other DPS was put to sleep, but the healer never Esuna'd them, and alas, they died in the AoE that happened afterward (IIRC Sleep they cast lasts about 30seconds).

I had let the healer know they needed to Esuna that sleep debuff off, yet they blamed us for dying in the bombs ... ehhhh

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Sounds like they have not run that one enough to know the flans can AoE sleep. I usually remind the party about the sleep when we load in.

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Originally Posted by RayneBoemir

I would say more than Esuna what I see in high levels is a lack of healers shielding players when they have made a mistake and get a dot debuff. Yea I know they made a mistake but it’s your job to keep them alive.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Dots are either negligible or will kill in a couple of tics, I'm not wasting a GCD or two minute CDs on shielding either of those as the shield will be pointless. At most I'll toss them Kardia and use Soteria and they can hope for the best.

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Agree with Eusis here. I can handle dots with other tools that won't cost me GCDs or long cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

game does a lousy job of explaining debuff cleansing (probably not even mentioned? let alone the white bar thing)

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They should add it directly to the Action Help for Esuna. "Removes a single detrimental effect from target. Cleansable effects are indicated by a white overbar."

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The obvious solution is Veresuna.

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Or... just attach that as a trait to Vercure and make every other healer's Cure skill get the Esuna additional effect. Saves one button on the hotbar + gives a niche to Cure 1, physick, benefic, and Diagnosis.

Removing debuffs is part of the healer job...

so yeah I esuna things when I see them. That was just a terrible healer.

Lost of interesting thoughts here. Thanks for sharing them!

Depends on the debuff and content.

If I'm in a dungeon were a poison tick is weaker than my HoT > it's "faster" to ignore the Debuff.

But ignoring the level imo it's relevant to esuna things like paralyze and sleep.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

So I was doing a guild heist today as DPS. The one with the bombs and the red flan can put you to sleep.

Well our other DPS was put to sleep, but the healer never Esuna'd them, and alas, they died in the AoE that happened afterward (IIRC Sleep they cast lasts about 30seconds).

I had let the healer know they needed to Esuna that sleep debuff off, yet they blamed us for dying in the bombs ... ehhhh

So that got me thinking. For those who are healers, do you remove debuffs (the ones with the bar on top) with Esuna? Do you ignore them if it's in a pre-50 dungeon?

Personally, I do my best to do Esuna all I can, especially the more dangerous ones. What do you do?

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I'll definitely try to Esuna a 30-second Sleep.