FFXIV need an anti Cheat, PvP isn't healthy anymore

SE need to put an anti cheat the same way big companies use an anticheat in their products.

I don't know if SE is aware that people are using a third party to farm ressources, dungeons and win PvP against others which make the PvP once again trash and unhealthy.

I don't understand also why SE put rules preventing people from leaving a PvP match when they are facing cheaters or Wintraders. Maybe SE cares more about cheaters now?

I can give the name of the cheat engine, the website and even the discord where people discuss and arrange matches.

Anti-cheats don't work and just punish the non cheating end user. They just need a more accurate reporting tool.

I'd rather not have some software bloating my cpu which wont even stop the hardcore cheaters.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Anti-cheats don't work and just punish the non cheating end user. They just need a more accurate reporting tool.

I'd rather not have some software bloating my cpu which wont even stop the hardcore cheaters.

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They'd work in shutting down the mod scene. Chat bubbles and the like. People with a long term investment in their accounts, for the most part, won't risk it, and those types of devs typically won't get into an arms races with anticheat devs.

What it wouldn't do is stop RMT. Their accounts are disposable anyways. Their devs will get into the arms race both because there's money involved, and no personal/emotional attachment to disposable accounts.

That said, there is a lot of downsides to anticheat anyways. Frequently they have performance issues, as you mention. And in FF14, it'd severely damage the RP, housing, and raid communities.

An anti-cheat for FFXIV would harm everyone, no exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

They'd work in shutting down the mod scene. Chat bubbles and the like. People with a long term investment in their accounts, for the most part, won't risk it, and those types of devs typically won't get into an arms races with anticheat devs.

What it wouldn't do is stop RMT. Their accounts are disposable anyways. Their devs will get into the arms race both because there's money involved, and no personal/emotional attachment to disposable accounts.

That said, there is a lot of downsides to anticheat anyways. Frequently they have performance issues, as you mention. And in FF14, it'd severely damage the RP, housing, and raid communities.

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The next question is what sane person would want an anticheat to deal with benign stuff like chatbubble plugins. Folks shouldnt accept one sour grape spoiling the bunch.

I guarantee OP hasn't actually ran into any cheating in pvp.

I think due to win trading and the like- which would be very hard to fight, without being aggressive, costly, and perhaps bring in a few innocents along the way, is why the change in reward structure is very much for the best.

I mean you could still go after them even with the new system, but it seems like an unnecessary hassle. If the concern is some people abuse the system to such a successful rate that it feels like you have to join in otherwise you are left with an awful awful grind then perhaps SE should simply tweak the rewards.

Generally I think SE should try and avoid using the most extreme, particularly abusive*, behavior to balance- like "this content is TOO EASY" says the person who uses a third party tool that tells them what they need to do at every step of the way. Uh.. Sure bro. "This content doesn't last long enough" says the person who win-trades. Ignore. lol

So feedback related to fair and healthy rates makes sense to me, and generally only focus on that- over trying to hunt down all the people who game the system in weird and not really intended ways. Big fan of systems that help people casually catch up, like personally I think they should take another whack at the challenge log system and increase the different types of things it can help you do and at what rate (so like a big boost to your pvp exp each week for a few matches, and those who play the game as if it was a second life can do so and go faster than you anyways but you're not going to be the turtle chained the floor vs the rabbit on pure mako). Careful not to make tasks feel pointless behind the challenge log system / buff though, just that I think it could be empowered a little and that would be nice. Perhaps particularly it has staggered empowerment like after x weeks / months of content active the log buff is boosted (so the first few months of a season are normal boost, and the last month or so is boosted to help stragglers before the next season).

My imo at least. Unless the cheating is like hacking the server to give you god mode or 1 hit kills, feels like maybe not worth the time and the *help / focus could just be on not having the game's perspective damaged by and shifted/manipulated/enhanced towards that behavior. Manipulating server data is highly trace-able though (server "does that == 0?" client ... uh.. *shifty eyes* ... no... got em' lol), unlike say if you had radar or something else akin to that.

If you for example looked at say a leaderboard competition, say the Ishgard crafter one, you might get the impression that players want and can do millions of crafts and design content around that-- however I strongly believe a high level of botting, and unhealthy behavior, perhaps in a "I want it, but I didn't want to put that much effort into it" sort of way, clouds the entire concept... in such that SE might still make that style content if they really want but to use those results and numbers to guide their normal crafting content would lead to catastrophic and horrible results (imo, and also to add I don't think they did allow that event to cloud their general view of the content- just an example of where doing that would be really bad).

While not a lord of loads of pvp I've never seen any cheating in the sense of absurd hacks. Lots of leeching, but not any teleporting, 1hko, god mode type stuff.

I'd rather they create a pvp specific reporting function first. You know, one where you right click someone's name on the result screen after a match ends then click you get options like: harassment, cheating, griefing, etc.

Should that fail, then we can discuss pvp anti cheats.

All I'm seeing is cheaters trying not to get caught here, put in anti cheat!

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

What it wouldn't do is stop RMT. Their accounts are disposable anyways. Their devs will get into the arms race both because there's money involved, and no personal/emotional attachment to disposable accounts.

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the devs need to forget about the disposable RMT bots, seriously. they need concentrate on and action on the buyers. if people stop buying, the RMT bots will dry up. going after the bots is a waste of time. if they start handing out game vacations for buying, I am positive it will diminish the gil buying player base if your account is on the line.

Positives of anti-cheat;

• Temporary disruption of illicit behavior as developers scramble to find workarounds. Brief period of few to no functioning bots/cheating players. Certain players who cheat now may no longer be the willing to risk cheating in future times.

Negatives of anti-cheat;

• RMT/Cheating groups will bypass within weeks to months of release (depending on chosen method, all current deployments have working bypass).
• Linux and Mac users will experience issues running the game, possibly for substantial period of time.
• VM users (Linux/Mac users running hardware pass through Windows VM) will also experience issues without tweaking VM. May still experience the issues anyway.
• All addons will break temporarily. Regardless of how you may feel about this can guarantee it will make substantial number of players displeased.
• There will be performance overhead.
• Overlay software may require update to function. This means Discord - Steam - Afterburner - Nvidia Share - Etc. If anti-cheat is overly aggressive some of these may never function properly.
• Opens floodgates for nonsense such as 'only five install limit'.

Anti-cheat software is development nightmare for the teams forced to implement it. In the end tis irrelevant at doing what it claims to do and fantastic at causing disruptions for legitimate users. Majority of the type of cheat detection most are asking for can and should be implemented server side. Thank the twelve Square is unwilling to do this due to laws most varied.

https://live.staticflickr.com/6074/6...437a03b4_w.jpg

As always, I'd rather not FF XIV come with bloatware that constitutes a massive violation of the right to privacy by scanning software run on the user's computer.

It will never happen, period. It would violate privacy laws in various countries the game is distributed in.
SE has never cared about cheaters, they even actively suppress conversations and attempts by player to interrupt them.
Yes, I'm talking about THAT discord server.

Anti-cheat doesn't solve issues with cheating in game. It just punishes everyone else by making the game run worse. The same issues we have here in this game still exist in games that use anti-cheat

They don't need an anti-cheat; they just need to enable the GMs to be able to actually go after people who are using cheats that can be readily identified.

You don't need "special tools" to tell that someone who's perma-sprinting, ignoring CC effects, and/or removing animation delays is cheating, but their insistence of making the actioning of those things strictly on the STF is precisely why they're able to get away with it for so long.

I rather have them get rid of pvp (even though i love it now) than having another malware installed on my pc, i swear some people just beg to get screwed over this days.

Also ... what do you mean by "anymore" ? :3

Anti-cheat software? No thanks. But more active and responsive monitoring of PvP play, including fast actioning of cheating reports, absolutely. You're never going to stamp out cheating entirely but if it becomes common knowledge that cheating will land you with a lengthy ban and a permanent mark on your service account then it will help dissuade those who are closer to the fence.

Anti-cheat is pointless for the reasons mentioned. What would ACTUALLY work, is having a right click -> Report function, particularly in PvP, then paying a couple additional GMs to police these reports and ban cheaters on the spot. There's no better anti-cheat then other players, brigading and witch hunting aside (and also why you have the GM make the actual determination)

You're wrong, i've been facing cheaters since the feast was a thing with people stun or silence you the moment the press the LB button.
Wasn't aware back then what's going on, till i found out about the programe cheaters are using and seen a dude using it in stream.

"FFXIV" is good but cheaters are turning honest players into "Minion" for them to farm... If you see what I mean

Anti-cheats hurt innocent people more than the ones you want punished. You should ask to empower GMs instead.

Been banned different times by Nexon's "anticheat software" a very long time ago, for absolutely nothing by just playing normally.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Anti-cheat is pointless for the reasons mentioned. What would ACTUALLY work, is having a right click -> Report function, particularly in PvP, then paying a couple additional GMs to police these reports and ban cheaters on the spot. There's no better anti-cheat then other players, brigading and witch hunting aside (and also why you have the GM make the actual determination)

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Another possible option though it might not be practical with CC due to how short matches are would be if GM's could spectate matches in progress if ppl start reporting someone for cheating to confirm it.

The best they can do is to add some sort easeness in reporting said individuals. We should be able to report said cheater by simply right clicking > report for cheating. Just like how we report RMTs.

But nah. Saying "Good Match!" is more dire than anything else in PvP. Gotta regulate that better 'cause it's easier to catch and does not waste their resource. /s

this is just one of those things that putting up a 10ft wall will just make people grab a 12ft ladder at the expense of the average player/user

what they should do is make it easier for themselves to collect data from matches/players in order to more swiftly determine who's cheating and punish them accordingly

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

this is just one of those things that putting up a 10ft wall will just make people grab a 12ft ladder at the expense of the average player/user

what they should do is make it easier for themselves to collect data from matches/players in order to more swiftly determine who's cheating and punish them accordingly

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Sometimes I question if it's less that they don't have the data and more that they don't know what they're supposed to be looking for because things like the Sprint buff not falling off after actions or Guard not affecting a player's movement speed or should in theory be painfully easy to detect.

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Originally Posted by Bloodborne

You're wrong, i've been facing cheaters since the feast was a thing with people stun or silence you the moment the press the LB button.
Wasn't aware back then what's going on, till i found out about the programe cheaters are using and seen a dude using it in stream.

"FFXIV" is good but cheaters are turning honest players into "Minion" for them to farm... If you see what I mean

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not going dismiss what you are saying but... what if someone saved there stun/silence for there opposing team lbs? that happen to me a few times in cc. about to lb then a war just stun me

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Originally Posted by Stralgarr

All I'm seeing is cheaters trying not to get caught here, put in anti cheat!

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Yep exactly my thoughts, there's lots of people making the most obnoxious excuses ....this whole thing is laughable

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Originally Posted by pyxls

Anti-cheats hurt innocent people more than the ones you want punished. You should ask to empower GMs instead.

Been banned different times by Nexon's "anticheat software" a very long time ago, for absolutely nothing by just playing normally.

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Really nexon??? That's your example nexon?!?!?!
They ban you for bashing them on the forums -_-
Nothing related to anti-cheat

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Originally Posted by keichirou

Yep exactly my thoughts, there's lots of people making the most obnoxious excuses ....this whole thing is laughable





Really nexon??? That's your example nexon?!?!?!
They ban you for bashing them on the forums -_-
Nothing related to anti-cheat

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Whats really laughable is the fact that you and Stralgar really think that anti cheat is going to stop anything. Every game ive played with anti cheat still had speedhackers and teleporters running rampant, but have fun in the delusional bubble you both live in.

Anti cheat are like DRM programs such Denuvo. It hurts more legal players than cheaters/pirates. They can cause also false positives, like happened no son long ago with Elden Ring where player were banned because they pick up an item dropped by another player. The game detected that the player shouldn't have that item because is not obtainable and just think was cheating and banned them. Similar thing, Anti-Cheat programs may detect something in your PC and ban you, even if that app is not doing anything on FFXIV. Cheaters will always find a way to turn off or go around the anti cheat.

The only solution to cheat is just release games on console and forget PC. PC is the heaven of cheaters, there are cheater in all know games and it is very difficult deal with them, that's why some cross-play games separate PC players from console players. And even in consoles it is possible to cheat when consoles get Custom Firmwares and that. But let's be real, it is unfair not release games on PC, as it is probably the best platform to play despite this. (I prefer consoles, but PC is better is a lot of aspects).

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

Whats really laughable is the fact that you and Stralgar really think that anti cheat is going to stop anything. Every game ive played with anti cheat still had speedhackers and teleporters running rampant, but have fun in the delusional bubble you both live in.

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Are you a programmer?....
Work in the gaming industry?..
Are you a Developer?.....
I'll wait...

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Originally Posted by keichirou

Are you a programmer?....
Work in the gaming industry?..
Are you a Developer?.....
I'll wait...

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Tell me how asking those irrelevant questions disproves what i just said.

ill wait..

Oh hell no, don't put cheap F2P game anti-cheat bullshit in FFXIV. I can't think of a single good game that plays well with that and doesn't take ages to load up for literally no reason.

Anti cheat would never work so long as the free trial exists.
See: Every F2P MMO with anti-cheat (Here's looking at you, Runescape.)

I wonder how big an issue it is. Like how many people use the hacks. I’ve gotten many chars to the crystal rank this season, using no mods myself, and haven’t really encountered anyone that I thought had suspicious behavior or reaction times. No one i would feel comfortable reporting for supposed cheating. Everyone seemed to play fairly normal

Like, I’m sure cheaters exist. I just have not personally seen anything sus and PvP a lot.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

Tell me how asking those irrelevant questions disproves what i just said.

ill wait..

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You should level up your Comprehensive reading

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Originally Posted by keichirou

You should level up your Comprehensive reading

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and you still can't tell me I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I wonder how big an issue it is. Like how many people use the hacks. I’ve gotten many chars to the crystal rank this season, using no mods myself, and haven’t really encountered anyone that I thought had suspicious behavior or reaction times. No one i would feel comfortable reporting for supposed cheating. Everyone seemed to play fairly normal

Like, I’m sure cheaters exist. I just have not personally seen anything sus and PvP a lot.

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I don't really think its all that common honestly.

Just put all the rewards into the battle pass and/or bought with wolf and trophy currency. Problem solved. No reason to rank outside of bragging rights or epeen stroking. People only cheat to get ahead and where there is no consequence, among other internal issue they might have.

Basically if all the rewards can be bought then only the truly die hard or desperate will do ranking and make it easier to find out who is actually cheating. Vast majority of the player base might not even touch pvp and the ones that do might no even touch rank. Personally speaking all I wanted was the pvp dark souls set and I'm currently lvl 20 and haven't touched a single ranked. Only the FL roulettes and a couple casuals here and there.

If you still feel the need to cheat even when all the rewards are removed from ranking then you are beyond help and most likely need to touch grass.