May 23 Hotfix

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Archer and bard weapon skills now affect Shot recast time.

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Why? I don't see the logic behind this.

Im more excited about the GC leve seal increase and caravan seal increases. I just hope they are worth it and not just a +50 increase. Idk why all GC activities such as leves hamlet and caravan not reward seals first and xp second.

Also drg seems to have gotten a buff have to try that as well. Lets all wait and see shall we?

It may have something to do with 2.0 idk

tldr:
2.0

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Why? I don't see the logic behind this.

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Possibly because being able to hit Light Shot in between every WS gave Bard "higher than intended" damage output for a support class.

Imagine if every melee could interrupt their WS recovery frames mid-combo with an auto attack. They would never run out of TP.

Idgi either. BRD never did MNK/DRG-tier DPS, it's not like the job needed a nerf; I really, truly don't understand.

All it really serves to do is make my rotation feel clunky and gross. Having to sit there for 2-4 seconds and do nothing after every weaponskill makes me want to quit BRD.

Not even noticeable.. you people are just finding reasons to complain for something that's needed.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Not even noticeable.. you people are just finding reasons to complain for something that's needed.

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It's extremely noticeable for those who care about min/maxing BRD in both support and DPS roles.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

It's extremely noticeable for those who care about min/maxing BRD in both support and DPS roles.

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And it's totally fair that archers can constantly attack between weaponskills while melees reset their auto attack.

And the fact that archers have been wanted in all parties since darkhold.. I mean come on, this was to be expected.

Garuda is 10x harder now my ls have to find other way of winning :(

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

And it's totally fair that archers can constantly attack between weaponskills while melees reset their auto attack.

And the fact that archers have been wanted in all parties since darkhold.. I mean come on, this was to be expected.

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Show me a parse where a BRD does 130+ DPS on Miser's Mistress and I'll agree. BRD does not match MNK/DRG/WAR DPS in almost all cases. The reason that BRDs are in such high demand is their songs and utility as a semi-healing class, as well as ranged just generally always being desirable as far as AoE is concerned.

ARC/BRD has always been in demand, yes, but not because it was the best DPS (with an exception to DH pre-nerf).

But bringing up auto attack on melee vs. ranged is silly; I could bring up that MNK's WS recasts are a lot shorter than BRD's, but that doesn't mean that MNK's WS timers should all be doubled.

Really such a tiny thing and will be easy to adjust to. Haven't seen how it affects our Garuda runs but I expect the crazy boost to melee DD will outpace whatever damage my extra shot or two would have done.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Show me a parse where a BRD does 130+ DPS on Miser's Mistress and I'll agree. BRD does not match MNK/DRG/WAR DPS in almost all cases. The reason that BRDs are in such high demand is their songs and utility as a semi-healing class, as well as ranged just generally always being desirable as far as AoE is concerned.

ARC/BRD has always been in demand, yes, but not because it was the best DPS (with an exception to DH pre-nerf).

But bringing up auto attack on melee vs. ranged is silly; I could bring up that MNK's WS recasts are a lot shorter than BRD's, but that doesn't mean that MNK's WS timers should all be doubled.

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You answered your own question. Bard is a support/dps. They shouldn't have the highest dps. Bringing up Monk is like talking about peaches in an apple conversation. Monks are pure dps with elements. And Bards/Archers are attacking from a distance safely and have the easiest combos.

I think you are just biased because it is your favorite job/class.

Curious on bard songs impacting dps of other jobs. maybe will snoop around to look for parses.

I wonder if archers will ever get ranged auto attack. More on the principle, not on the balance perspective.

What is this ....

I don't even ...

Honestly I never learned about the Light Shot thing until a week ago, being a new player and all. So when I saw it was reloaded to when a WS went off ... well it didn't change a thing for me and I see no issue adjusting to it. I also had no trouble at all with keeping up my TP. So I dun get what the rage is about. Granted I admit to the ignorance of the extra shot so I have no basis on your PoV outside trying to get in the extra shot between WS annoyed me more than anything.

That extra shot in between weaponskills was an exploit.

I'm surprised SE hasn't banned everyone who used this exploit to kill things slightly faster than normal.

I didn't use this exploit and did subpar damage as BRD and I'm proud of it.

The integrity of the playerbase has really fallen for wanting to keep this exploit in the game.

If SE didn't fix this exploit I would have quit the game.

Now I see a troll that has been perusing old threads

This is such a huge hit to BRD dps but I am totally fine with it, BRD needs to be a more support role not dps. However, 3 songs and some cures doesn't really make you that supporty imo.

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Originally Posted by kro

That extra shot in between weaponskills was an exploit.

I'm surprised SE hasn't banned everyone who used this exploit to kill things slightly faster than normal.

I didn't use this exploit and did subpar damage as BRD and I'm proud of it.

The integrity of the playerbase has really fallen for wanting to keep this exploit in the game.

If SE didn't fix this exploit I would have quit the game.

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You are aware that SE specifically and intentionally patched in the ability to use Light Shot without interrupting a combo, right?

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

You are aware that SE specifically and intentionally patched in the ability to use Light Shot without interrupting a combo, right?

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Ummm, source?

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Not even noticeable.. you people are just finding reasons to complain for something that's needed.

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Its also extremely noticeable for those playing straight archer.

Its noticeable either way. A huge nerf. I guess if you're not noticing it then you're not really playing very efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

Ummm, source?

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There is no source, it was a ninja patch. Sometime between 1.20a and 1.21 iirc, pretty sure it was 1.21.

I definitely remember this though because it used to piss me off that other classes could AA between WS's but ARC couldn't lol.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Its also extremely noticeable for those playing straight archer.

Its noticeable either way. A huge nerf. I guess if you're not noticing it then you're not really playing very efficiently.

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Then oh well, nerf is nerf and archer/bard finally got it. Next is black mage and can't wait :D

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

You answered your own question. Bard is a support/dps. They shouldn't have the highest dps. Bringing up Monk is like talking about peaches in an apple conversation. Monks are pure dps with elements. And Bards/Archers are attacking from a distance safely and have the easiest combos.

I think you are just biased because it is your favorite job/class.

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BRD isn't highest DPS nor was it post-fix. I brought up MNK as an example of how much higher prospective DPS is for other DPS classes. BRDs may have the easiest combos but their timers are the longest, and they have to balance songs/buffs alongside DPS. The point that I'm trying to make is that no, BRD shouldn't be highest DPS, but it wasn't highest before this fix. I'll live with it, obv, but it just feels stupid. Why nerf BRD when it didn't need to be nerfed in the first place?

BRD is one of my favorite classes, yes, but my argument against the fix is driven by logic, not bias.

I still got my throw! Cant stop the ws spam even if you tried SE *knocks on wood*

The changes don't really lower my DPS by much more annoying then anything else but I don't have many issues with getting tp still.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Idgi either. BRD never did MNK/DRG-tier DPS, it's not like the job needed a nerf; I really, truly don't understand.

All it really serves to do is make my rotation feel clunky and gross. Having to sit there for 2-4 seconds and do nothing after every weaponskill makes me want to quit BRD.

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Welcome to the way every other class works?

If you were playing BRD using this exploit, you will notice somewhere between a 20-33% dps decrease. It's really a huge difference. This change definitely made BRD a lot weaker in terms of DPS.

Just think about it. People that used this, went from adding in the extra damage from a light shot between every WS, to ONLY being able to light shot before and after WS combos, if you're trying to be efficient now.

If you were doing constant damage uninterrupted, that's easily 1/3 of your damage that is cut off. And if you're doing other things in the fight, it's still easily 1/5 of your damage that is cut off.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

I still got my throw! Cant stop the ws spam even if you tried SE *knocks on wood*

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Only useful post in this thread.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Welcome to the way every other class works?

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Because of directional requirements for combos, you should always be moving on WAR/DRG/MNK in order to reach adequate DPS; which makes rotations on those classes (proper ones lol) feel challenging and fun. Even though the mechanic is basically the same now concerning auto-attack, there's a fundamental difference in gameplay between melee/ranged, regardless of hotfix. BRD does a lot of standing and casting, and now, waiting. Other classes have more movement and DPS buffs.

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Originally Posted by Lamentor

If you were playing BRD using this exploit

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what lol...

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Because of directional requirements for combos, you should always be moving on WAR/DRG/MNK in order to reach adequate DPS; which makes rotations on those classes (proper ones lol) feel challenging and fun. Even though the mechanic is basically the same now concerning auto-attack, there's a fundamental difference in gameplay between melee/ranged, regardless of hotfix. BRD does a lot of standing and casting, and now, waiting. Other classes have more movement and DPS buffs.

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On my BLM and WHM, I dont recall a lot of positionals, doing multiple actions at the same time, or running around while attacking. They're ranged classes with a lot of standing and casting.

It was a pointless nerf.

I mean it's not game-breaking or anything, but it is a bit of a 'fuck you' to all the BRDs trying to be efficient.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

You answered your own question. Bard is a support/dps. They shouldn't have the highest dps. Bringing up Monk is like talking about peaches in an apple conversation. Monks are pure dps with elements. And Bards/Archers are attacking from a distance safely and have the easiest combos.

I think you are just biased because it is your favorite job/class.

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You should keep in mind that this change affects archer as well as bard, which is not a support role. It can be, just like pugilist can, so why is it's dps being gimped while the other classes' dps aren't?

Sure if BRD dmg was too high for a support role and they made a change to how the soul crystal affects you on equip, okay. But this is a gimp to a class that shouldn't recieve one imo, and a job that I don't think needed one either.

And those that think this was an exploit, how is the use of throwing weapons as TP generation not one? You're just going to see bards flinging firepots or w/e at mobs like a warrior now. Which... is ridiculous for an archer. :(