So...About Blue Mage

Will the blue haired step child finally be made a full Job next expansion since we're probably going to New World then. Or will it remain a niche, left in the molding dust of previous expansions?

Seriously, just make the Job a fully functioning one and have its "Limited version" be something completely seperate you can toggle on and off for it's own unique content and stuff.

#ReviveDaBloo

I wish BLU could have an unlimited mode where they can use a predetermined and balanced spell-kit for that mode only, with the player having to collect these predetermined spells in the limited mode to have them. This way BLU-hardcore players and casters who want a new job can be satisfied

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Will the blue haired step child finally be made a full Job next expansion since we're probably going to New World then. Or will it remain a niche, left in the molding dust of previous expansions?

Seriously, just make the Job a fully functioning one and have its "Limited version" be something completely seperate you can toggle on and off for it's own unique content and stuff.

#ReviveDaBloo

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It wouldn't be hard to do. You simply have select skills only usable in main PVE content while the others can be used in regular open world similar to how PVP uses select skills. Just take away it's exp boost making it fast to level up or something and let it use the same gear as the other mages. You could even make it sort of a geomancer that uses tons of buffs and stuff which would make it fill the void currently existing due to no jobs having any real buffs or debuffs.

Im pretty sure we'll get an update for Shadowbringers Blue Mage within the post-EW patch cycle but having just completed the entirety of Masked Carnivale, yeah I wish they would open up the log book to have access to doing other activities for more unique rewards such as hunts, fates etc. At the very least update the book to have access to all of Stormblood/Shadowbringers dungeons,trials and raids at this point. I like the wacky diversity this job has and I just kept smiling at the callbacks to the FFV and FFVI blue magic experience.

Really all I hope is that they do update the content for Blue Mage. I dont mind its Limited Job status as its really supposed to be fun little distraction from the usual MMO stuff and not something that needs to be taken seriously for balancing for current content.

While were at it, I find it odd that FFXIV's Blue Mage is relegated to only wear Caster gear. While in FFV, Blue Mages can wear most armors. And the fact that they have a skill that lets them mimic roles I dont see why they arent capable of supplementing said roles with appropriate gear. Just seems like an odd choice.

I can't really see it happening unless SE finds a way to keep the BLU challenge around (the Savage level sync'd no Echo BLU only challenge). Me and my friends earned that Morbol mount >:I

I like how it is currently, maybe not as many primal skills since they are mandatory and overshadow the weaker more unique ones.

Full job would turn it in to another bore for the sake of balance.
PvP BLU could work and be interesting since classes are unique there anyway.

You know what? Keep it limited. Of course update it for Shadowbringers, but don't make it a normal Job. It's great fun how it is and I can definitely see it being neutered when it becomes normal.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

I like how it is currently, maybe not as many primal skills since they are mandatory and overshadow the weaker more unique ones.

Full job would turn it in to another bore for the sake of balance.
PvP BLU could work and be interesting since classes are unique there anyway.

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Well think about it this way. Raid blu already has a "bore for the sake of balance" rotation. 50% of their skills are repeats with different targeting and a whole bunch just dont work in raids/trials, so you basically get locked into THE blu rotation (yes there is one, its not as free form as people would have you think).

So the question is if its rotation already exists and is somewhat balanced (which it is, 70 blu does comparable dps to level 70 jobs if you turn off dps mimicry), why cant you just be locked into that already existing skillset for current content.

Personally, I think the ultimate solution would be to allow it to reach the max level and enter all the PvE content, but they would need to do it in a pre-made group and disable all loot drops while there is a BLU in the party.

They can then go back and add in Shadowbringers BLU spells later on.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Personally, I think the ultimate solution would be to allow it to reach the max level and enter all the PvE content, but they would need to do it in a pre-made group and disable all loot drops while there is a BLU in the party.

They can then go back and add in Shadowbringers BLU spells later on.

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I dont see why this regulation would be necessary, theres nothing in BLUs current arsenal that would justify them disabling loot drops for 8 man raids, the only thing that could justify that is if their dps ended up higher than average which is unlikely.

The main problem with BLU ever becoming a regular Job is that it would require removing their core identity. Learning mechanic is what defines the Blue Mage just as Edgy Armor an high jumps define Dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

The main problem with BLU ever becoming a regular Job is that it would require removing their core identity. Learning mechanic is what defines the Blue Mage just as Edgy Armor an high jumps define Dragoon.

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And? What's stopping the devs from making Blue Mage learn its kit from instanced job quests like all the other jobs do for their abilities and spells pre-level 70. I also could not care less about Blue Mage's identity I just want another caster to play already. It's been 5 years since Red Mage's release.

For the people saying it'd be a bore if it were turned into a real job it already is the most boring job. You can't do anything with it besides meme all over the place for the first week of a Blue Mage update then forget the job exists until they update it again 2 years later.

It doesn't help that this job is also the most alt-unfriendly job to unlock and level, let alone attain all 104 spells again. I am not going through that hell again just to ditch the job after the first week of its update.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

It wouldn't be hard to do. You simply have select skills only usable in main PVE content while the others can be used in regular open world similar to how PVP uses select skills. Just take away it's exp boost making it fast to level up or something and let it use the same gear as the other mages.

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What happens when a BLU hasn't learned most of those select skills they're allowed to use?

The XP bonus only applies to normal open world mobs so that's not an issue (the XP they get in dungeons is dismal by comparison). And they already use the caster role sets.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

While were at it, I find it odd that FFXIV's Blue Mage is relegated to only wear Caster gear. While in FFV, Blue Mages can wear most armors. And the fact that they have a skill that lets them mimic roles I dont see why they arent capable of supplementing said roles with appropriate gear. Just seems like an odd choice.

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This game code isn't designed to work that way and it wouldn't be worth the effort to rewrite all the code just so BLU could mix and match different role sets.

Ultimately gear is just a stat stick and BLU abilities are designed to work with and supplement what caster gear gives.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

And? What's stopping the devs from making Blue Mage learn its kit from instanced job quests like all the other jobs do for their abilities and spells pre-level 70. I also could not care less about Blue Mage's identity I just want another caster to play already. It's been 5 years since Red Mage's release.

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So keep asking for a new caster job instead of taking away BLU's identity and ruining the job for those who like what it is.

The nice thing about this game is that if you don't enjoy a job, you can stop playing it anytime you like to focus on the ones you enjoy with the same character. If you don't like BLU, don't play it. Nothing is lost other than access to a couple of achievement rewards if you don't already have them.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I wish BLU could have an unlimited mode where they can use a predetermined and balanced spell-kit for that mode only, with the player having to collect these predetermined spells in the limited mode to have them. This way BLU-hardcore players and casters who want a new job can be satisfied

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Been saying this since the thing was announced, but people can't wrap their heads around BLU being anything other than a mini game.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Will the blue haired step child finally be made a full Job next expansion since we're probably going to New World then. Or will it remain a niche, left in the molding dust of previous expansions?

Seriously, just make the Job a fully functioning one and have its "Limited version" be something completely seperate you can toggle on and off for it's own unique content and stuff.

#ReviveDaBloo

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I honestly don't hate BLU's current design... I just dislike that their 'endgame' content is bound only to groups. Why I can't complete the BLU log objectives on my own with Basic Instinct? (we need a full party to get into the instances regular modes to get credit).


But said that, I wouldn't mind if they implemented an "unlimited" aspect for the job as well. It can be as simple as having one single innate spell (learned via quest, not monsters) that activates a "stance" filling your Blue Mage spellbook with pre-determined non-changeable actions.

Let's say, the level 70-80 quest line revolves around finding 24 unique spells and after you get all of them, you are rewarded with this stance action. You can use any of those spells in your limited BLU gameplay as well if you desire so, but for this "unlimited" version you need to stick with the set.

This also can make interesting future variations... for example, the 81-90 quests could give a whole new "stance" with new actions. This way they can always update the job's mechanics every xpac without undoing previous variations.

I think the community of players that actually play BLU in older savage content enjoy it for what it is. I would prefer they actually just made more "limited" jobs that could have more varied and interesting design at the cost of not balanced for on content current pve

Would love to run an Eden party with Blue Mages, Gamblers, Time Mages, and a Chemist.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Been saying this since the thing was announced, but people can't wrap their heads around BLU being anything other than a mini game.

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I simply don't think that Blue Mage ever meshed well with MMO ideas. The core issue is that they don't scale since every single one of their skills is considered level 1 when selected from their spellbook. That means that even with sync Blue Mage kit doesn't change everything from which spells you have as well as their base numbers are the same. Second of all their open ended nature means you have guarantee that specific Blue Mage will have specific spell available. The "Unlimited Mode" for Blue would basically need to be a separate class on its own to solve the Syncing issues as you'd need to assign the predetermined levels as well as sync the potencies across the board. Also what would happen when you reach new expansion? Does Blue Mage suddenly lose their unlimited privilege and cannot participate inn quests MSW etc till they learn a new predetermined set of skills?

I don't care what they do with the job.
But they clearly NEED to do something.

Updating it to level 80 and making new spells is not enough, as it would, again, just be a temporary thing that people will play for a couple weeks and then not touch until the next update.

If they want to keep it limited, they should at least give it some long term goals.
Give it its own currency for example...I don't know...Maybe even with a weekly cap.
A BLU roulette etc.

If there is no plan for such long term goals, then they should at least change the concept a little bit.
It can stay limited, but not as limited as it currently is.

BLU's updates happened in 4.5 5.15 and 5.45
I think it's safe to assume it's not getting updated til much later this year.

It's a fun thing to do on the side and the savage content can be a good challenge, but the job is too OP to lose its limited status. I see talk of more limited jobs and I don't see the point or how it would even function. One limited job is enough and it has so much flexibility.

I'd rather wait til we actually get to that New World to see a story / spell update than have them try to wedge in Shadowbringers content.

Even better I think BLU and DNC for that matter should have been jobs that fit all 3 roles, which would solve a ton of issues and make Tanks, Healers and DD all happy.

Blu could do it through spell sets and dancer through stances, which would all be locked in duties. They are both the perfect job for a system like this since they are so incredibly versatile. No gear or stats would need to change, with dnc abilities could be shared and have different attributes depending on stance, so icons, animations and what not wouldn't need to be changed or made new. It would be like bringing 6 jobs out at once.

I want Beast Master!! I want to catch them all!!!

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Well think about it this way. Raid blu already has a "bore for the sake of balance" rotation. 50% of their skills are repeats with different targeting and a whole bunch just dont work in raids/trials, so you basically get locked into THE blu rotation (yes there is one, its not as free form as people would have you think).

So the question is if its rotation already exists and is somewhat balanced (which it is, 70 blu does comparable dps to level 70 jobs if you turn off dps mimicry), why cant you just be locked into that already existing skillset for current content.

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You aren't wrong there. My personal gripe is the primal skills which you have to have and they take so much room already.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

I simply don't think that Blue Mage ever meshed well with MMO ideas. The core issue is that they don't scale since every single one of their skills is considered level 1 when selected from their spellbook. That means that even with sync Blue Mage kit doesn't change everything from which spells you have as well as their base numbers are the same. Second of all their open ended nature means you have guarantee that specific Blue Mage will have specific spell available. The "Unlimited Mode" for Blue would basically need to be a separate class on its own to solve the Syncing issues as you'd need to assign the predetermined levels as well as sync the potencies across the board. Also what would happen when you reach new expansion? Does Blue Mage suddenly lose their unlimited privilege and cannot participate inn quests MSW etc till they learn a new predetermined set of skills?

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That's a problem they created themselves. They made it that way and thus, it won't work the same way other jobs work. It is completely within their power to just not do that. In every other game they have a predetermined set of skills. They aren't known for having 100+ skills to pick from in games, so saying that having so many is BLU's identity is wrong. They are and always have been "mage that casts monster spells" FULL. STOP.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I don't care what they do with the job.
But they clearly NEED to do something.

Updating it to level 80 and making new spells is not enough, as it would, again, just be a temporary thing that people will play for a couple weeks and then not touch until the next update.

If they want to keep it limited, they should at least give it some long term goals.
Give it its own currency for example...I don't know...Maybe even with a weekly cap.
A BLU roulette etc.

If there is no plan for such long term goals, then they should at least change the concept a little bit.
It can stay limited, but not as limited as it currently is.

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Right!

1) Leveling and completing the quest line
2) Completing the spellbook
3) Carnivale
4) Weekly Logs
5) Morbol Mount

These are the current main big activities with the Job. #1 and #2 are entertaining enough, but with a very limited shelf life, as you only do that once... #3 Is fun as well, but again, only once. Puzzle fights (at least for my tastes) are not exciting at all for re-clears. #5 Morbol mount is a huge carrot on a stick but depends on a very organized static, as it's pretty challenging - it can be a goal, but I imagine not everyone's cup of tea.

This leaves with #4 as the most accessible fun thing to do with the job on a daily basis... And playing BLU actually is! It's healer version is much more engaging than the regular healers, the dpsers have some level of customization to how they can play and tanks... well a bit clunky but can do the job. HOWEVER... this depends on securing a party, which can be quite daunting when the potential enjoyers of BLU already completed everything.

Pre-release, they advertised BLU as being a solo-friendly job, so they should follow through with that! Let solo players enter instances to complete the Weekly Logs with Basic Instinct! Nowadays, you can go alone with Unrestricted Party + level sync, but it does NOT count for the weekly/daily log completion.

I still dream of an unlimited Blue Mage that I can play as to progress the MSQ and do regular dailies/weeklies instead of a minigame that gets updated every couple of years. :(

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Originally Posted by Palslow

I want Beast Master!! I want to catch them all!!!

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Same here, its the next logical step for another Limited Job. The content blueprint is already there thanks to Blue Mage and it also would give a very good bonus to expand on the lonely companion system we have with just our chocobo.

Other good picks for Limited Jobs that would be interesting to see being implemented are Arithmetician from FF Tactics, Onion Knight from FFIII and possibly Mime from FFV? (although that one I have a hard time to see how they could work it for FFXIV's case)

Personally I am surprised that BLU can't run dungeons with the trust/squadron system.. I can understand not allowing with real people.. but why not with trusts/squadrons?

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

That's a problem they created themselves. They made it that way and thus, it won't work the same way other jobs work. It is completely within their power to just not do that. In every other game they have a predetermined set of skills. They aren't known for having 100+ skills to pick from in games, so saying that having so many is BLU's identity is wrong. They are and always have been "mage that casts monster spells" FULL. STOP.

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Yes and no. Saying that Blue Mage is just "Mage using monster Spells" is half truth at best since it omits the way they acquire those skills. Regardless of the game and Blue Mage incarnation it's always removed from mechanics that govern other jobs. In V where you either found/bought skills and spells, or learned them via Job Level ups the Blue Mage required you to seek out enemies with unique skills and get hit by them in order to expand your arsenal. Same deal in 6 with Strago. Even 8 has you seeking out enemies to feed their drops to Quistis. And it's always only up to the player too seek out those enemies and obtain their power. And that's what they aimed to capture. A non linear progression that leaves it up to the player. Something so incompatible with MMO ideas that it's kept in it's own bubble, seen only as a novelty. Yes it's lifespan is finite, yes they are locked from any major content but I like them when I eventually get tired of regular jobs

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

And? What's stopping the devs from making Blue Mage learn its kit from instanced job quests like all the other jobs do for their abilities and spells pre-level 70.

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Just a guess, but... time and money? "Just remake the job from the ground up" is a bad argument. "Just remake the job and also keep it as is, doubling the work load" is a bad argument.

Here is a BLU concept that should be possible to balance with the regular jobs, while also keeping the learning and spell selecting aspect that is key to the job.

https://i.ibb.co/K2mjHzY/Blue-Magic-Spellbook1.jpg

The idea is you pick any 3 elemental spells that flow from one to the other to build your basic combo.

You get minor focus for doing the combo, and that focus can spent on a 2nd combo built on the same principle, flowing from one element to another. The 2nd combo gets a damage bonus to represent your powering up.

By doing the two combos and moving through the whole elemental wheel you can gain a major focus, those can then be spent to unleash your bigger spells.

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Could be an add on to current BLU. BLU could become a class with the job crystal being a story McGuffin, at some point in the story a job trainer (level 30 maybe?) comes along and gives you a focused job stone that be used to change the class over to this.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Here is a BLU concept that should be possible to balance with the regular jobs, while also keeping the learning and spell selecting aspect that is key to the job.

https://i.ibb.co/K2mjHzY/Blue-Magic-Spellbook1.jpg

The idea is you pick any 3 elemental spells that flow from one to the other to build your basic combo.

You get minor focus for doing the combo, and that focus can spent on a 2nd combo built on the same principle, flowing from one element to another. The 2nd combo gets a damage bonus to represent your powering up.

By doing the two combos and moving through the whole elemental wheel you can gain a major focus, those can then be spent to unleash your bigger spells.

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Could be an add on to current BLU. BLU could become a class with the job crystal being a story McGuffin, at some point in the story a job trainer (level 30 maybe?) comes along and gives you a focused job stone that be used to change the class over to this.

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I like this idea. Looking at the current spellbook, the only spells that can really trivialize boss mechanics is White Wind and Diamondback due to how they work, so they probably need to be adjusted in the end, while not making both of them utterly useless... Instant death effects already don't work as they are, and other niche spells like Dragon Force, Cactguard, Angel Snack are all behind cast times, so to use them you'd need to sacrifice your own offensive anyways.

I feel, though, that those insta kill spells and the plethora of aoe CC effects like paralyze and stuns is probably tip the balance in favor of the Blue Mage in dungeons... so I wonder if they would care to adjust those spells too.

Just make it a toggle. It's not that hard. Unlimited in open world and limited in party content.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I like this idea. Looking at the current spellbook, the only spells that can really trivialize boss mechanics is White Wind and Diamondback due to how they work, so they probably need to be adjusted in the end, while not making both of them utterly useless... Instant death effects already don't work as they are, and other niche spells like Dragon Force, Cactguard, Angel Snack are all behind cast times, so to use them you'd need to sacrifice your own offensive anyways.

I feel, though, that those insta kill spells and the plethora of aoe CC effects like paralyze and stuns is probably tip the balance in favor of the Blue Mage in dungeons... so I wonder if they would care to adjust those spells too.

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Thanks :)

I mean the spell book would probably need quite a bit of adjustment for BLU to work as a standard job, even with the configuration proposed above. I just didn't want to do a full rework of everything, I'm more of a 'loose outline' sort of guy. :p

Wanted to cover all the essentials. So it still learns from enemies, it scales down in lower level content, it has a gauge to manage and play around, and I think the end result would play differently enough from the other 3 casters to justify the effort.

I would 100% main BLU if it became a 'real' job. I'm trying to get all the music scrolls in the game so I had to defeat all three of the major bosses in the carnivale to get the scrolls associated with the questline. I honestly didn't want to, had some good friends +my partner power level me and get me a bunch of good spells because I found the progression to be a pain for solo play, but I ended up having a lot of fun with it in the end. Being able to mimic any role and having so many rotations to choose from kept the whole ordeal fresh and made me miss it a little once I popped the scrolls and never looked back. Just let them be an all rounder with limitations in MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I like this idea. Looking at the current spellbook, the only spells that can really trivialize boss mechanics is White Wind and Diamondback due to how they work, so they probably need to be adjusted in the end, while not making both of them utterly useless... Instant death effects already don't work as they are, and other niche spells like Dragon Force, Cactguard, Angel Snack are all behind cast times, so to use them you'd need to sacrifice your own offensive anyways.

I feel, though, that those insta kill spells and the plethora of aoe CC effects like paralyze and stuns is probably tip the balance in favor of the Blue Mage in dungeons... so I wonder if they would care to adjust those spells too.

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Diamondback and whitewind arnt even that bad in a raid setting actually.

White Wind: with the exception of snapshotting high health, the only time you would want a dps to sacrifice a gcd to help out the healers is during a heal check, and during a heal check, your health is low, if your health is low white wind sucks. Sure you could do bene + whitewind combo, but in what world is that better than the plethora of high power dps neutral healing options healers have. It doesnt even help in solo heal attempts, as the limiting factor for solo heal is mechanic targetting not healing throughput.

DB: this ability is a trap, there is not a way to make this a valuable skill on a dps which wouldnt make it just way more clunky than just having the off tank do it. Any situation where diamondback would be useful to have on a dps would be a situation where somethings gone terribly wrong or a gimmick run. Even on bosses that target 1st and second aggro having to DB will bleed so much damage to keep the blu alive that you should just have an off tank.

Edit: on the topic of dungeons im in 2 minds, on one hand yeah chain cc would be powerful in dungeons. On the other hand dungeons are broken content by design and can be literally solod by warriors/ paladins, and already optimally run with 3 dps and one tank, so its impact would be minor.

People are weird. It's just better to create a new job.

As blue mage can do everything not just red dps. You can solo any dungeon as blue mage is eligible for with basic instinct because it allows all the role buffs without the downsides. Revenge Blast is sickeningly good that encourages a raid of blue mages to stay at lowest HP possible, that's good stuff after getting smacked by a lot of damage. There are many different play styles encouraged and that's what made doing the sync'd raids exciting.

There are no traps. You can also get away with 1 blue mage tank in most of the non-echo sync'd raids because how stupidly good Mighty Guard and Diamondback is. Frog leg a voke and take a buster, tank takes it back. That kind of flexibly is awesome.

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Originally Posted by technole

People are weird. It's just better to create a new job.

As blue mage can do everything not just red dps. You can solo any dungeon as blue mage is eligible for with basic instinct because it allows all the role buffs without the downsides. Revenge Blast is sickeningly good that encourages a raid of blue mages to stay at lowest HP possible, that's good stuff after getting smacked by a lot of damage. There are many different play styles encouraged and that's what made doing the sync'd raids exciting.

There are no traps. You can also get away with 1 blue mage tank in most of the non-echo sync'd raids because how stupidly good Mighty Guard and Diamondback is. Frog leg a voke and take a buster, tank takes it back. That kind of flexibly is awesome.

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Mighty Guard+ Diamondback is only good within the context of BLU raiding, if you were to have blu as a normal job you would never want to use that over an actual tank. Also "Many different play styles" is a massive reach, you have the BLU rotation and you occasionaly use a different filler (i.e. revenge blast), fundamentally you only have one playstyle of your primal burst+ filler.

There are some interesting ideas about what could be, but not enough thought about the time it will actually take to make something happen. BLU is a side job and it's fine as it is. It's also very OP in its capabilities. For this reason, it's perma-banned from things like Ultimates and Eureka / Bozja.

Conversion to a non-limited status is moot when you have 19 classes to choose from.

Blue mage only purpose is to farm allied seals :3

More seriously sometime i wish they just change it to something more constructed with 3 archetypes (dps,heal,tank), each coming with its separate set of spell that you have to learn and balanced to do content with other jobs.