What reasons to play SGE over WHM or SCH?

(This isn't a complaint thread, I just want to know more about SGE)

Been thinking of maining SGE as my healer, seeing as I started the game with Scholar and kinda miss the healing role, even if i've gone off scholar in general.

Ive been looking at it compared to other healers (Apart from AST, which Ive never had any interest in), and it seems a little bit lacking.

Being able to heal while damaging is nice, but I dont know if those damage numbers are that great anyway. WHM seems to do a fair bit more damage along with having more reliable heals and reacting to bad situations far better. When it comes to shields, SCH seems to just be overall better at that, too.

I've heard a lot of differing opinions on SGE, so i thought I'd ask here. Why do you play it over the others? What does it bring to the table that the others dont? (or dont do as well)

I like the mobility SGE provides compared to WHM and SCH.
YMMV.

None really SCH has better shields WHM has better heals
DPS is pretty much the same
The best I can tell you as a SGE main
you get everything maybe not the best but everything and if your a Vet healer you make the best out of this
SGE isn't hard to pick up but can be challenging to get use to since it plays a bit differently
But once you start to figure it all out you feel big brain and healer is never stale when your a sage
Truly SE can be magicians when they want to cause you can feel like a dps when you crit a Dosis
Your mobility can make you feel like a gundam or magic girl whatever your fantasy is (though two would be epic)
When I say it feels like magic sometimes it truly does
But Numbers wise nothing think of it as a shoe if it fits you play it or not

Why I play WHM over SGE:
• I love Cane and wand (I use wand in BSF for less clipping lol). I love flowery motifs as well.
• More mobile than SGE after 6.1 change outside Icarus.

Why I play SCH over SGE:
• Books >>>>> Space lazor. (I know, I’m biased)
• Butterfly motifs.
• Healing & buffs AoE that are not centered on myself while can also be manipulated at will.
• My OG main, and will always be.
• And reasons you’ve stated.

Why I play AST over SGE:
• The most support’ish of all healers.
• Keeps me awake with its APM.

Why not SGE?
• Gundam/Mecha-style of aesthetic has never clicked with me. It’s a major turn off for me.
• A copy paste of SCH-identity.
• Bonus point: notably less effective emergency recovery options compared to SCH but why worry about it when you can prevent it.

Sage/Scholar main here to argue mostly in favour of Sage

SGE and SCH
Eukrasian Diagnosis and Prognosis are both usable while moving (adlo/succ have cast times)
SGE’s single-target healing is the best of all healers (Kardia forced vs random embrace, Kardion keeps going during Haima vs Embraces stopped during Aetherpact, Soteria vs Nothing)
SGE doesn’t rely on the skill of your teammates for damage, unlike SCH’s Chain Strat.
SGE excels in multitarget phases, being able to cleave for bonus damage with Phlegma, Toxicon, and Pneuma. SCH’s energy drain and chain strat only hit 1 target.
Regular Prognosis is around for those dire situations where you have nothing left.
Better MP restoration, SGE gains ~566 extra mp/min due to addersgall, rhizomata. They also get a 400mp refund on Euk.Diag from the toxicon proc.
Kerachole sticks to people instead of requiring them to be close (very useful for things like UCoB trio phases)
Icarus exists; which is nice, but not vital.
Physis2 is much more impactful than Whispering Dawn (10% heal buff, 90p extra, shorter duration)

However, SCH deals more damage in ST
Has better range healing (fairy, more 20y skills)
Stronger shields & mitigation (deployment > zoe, fey illumination vs nothing.
Succor also has an extra 100p pure healing vs Euk.Prog for some reason
Dissipation is a decent tool for emergency healing, but it’s basically just going to be turned into Lustrate/Energy Drains, due to Indom/Soil/Excog’s internal cooldowns.

SGE and WHM
They’re different ‘types’ of healer, so harder to compare. I’ll try my best anyway, since SCH+SGE is a viable comp if you have planning and coordination.

SGE has much better mitigation (Kera and Holos vs only Temperance). Krasis beats Aquaveil in versatility, and Taurochole is a good match for Aqua’s mitigation.
SGE has better free ST healing (WHM would need to dip into Regen/Cure2)
Did I mention Kerachole? It and SCH’s Soil are insanely powerful skills.
Panhaima and Liturgy have similar uses, but Panhaima has a minute less on its cooldown. It can also prevent lethal damage, being a shield.
Kerachole is a 10% mitigation every 30s. I don’t think I can stress enough just how powerful that is. It covers basically every raidwide in the game.

WHM has much better flexibility with its lily usage vs Addersgall (no cooldowns on rapture, solace is more potency than druochole). This also makes WHM better at burst healing - especially thanks to Plenary and Cure3, even though Cure3 is a damage loss.
WHM has much better MP economy with lily changes
Cure2, Medica2, Cure3, and Regen are very nice - but this is more of a ‘pure vs barrier’ argument. It makes it easier to salvage runs that are going downhill than just Diagnosis, Prognosis, and their Eukrasian counterparts.


All in all:
SGE is pretty nice, but all healers are viable. Play what you enjoy lol.

To me, healers don't feel all that different from one another, so it mostly comes down to the aesthetic.
I prefer SGE's over the rest, so that's what I play.

Unique and awesome aesthetics, shields, dps to heal (but still healer so terrible gameplay and execution), dash is always fun.

SGE is very easy to play (all healers are, but SGE even more so), has a strong and versatile healing kit that makes you less reliant on your cohealer and several mobility options. It's usually my first option when I try harder content for the first time.

All healers are pretty similar anyway and you will be spamming one single button most of the time on all of them.

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Originally Posted by Vulkiel

(This isn't a complaint thread, I just want to know more about SGE)

Been thinking of maining SGE as my healer, seeing as I started the game with Scholar and kinda miss the healing role, even if i've gone off scholar in general.

Ive been looking at it compared to other healers (Apart from AST, which Ive never had any interest in), and it seems a little bit lacking.

Being able to heal while damaging is nice, but I dont know if those damage numbers are that great anyway. WHM seems to do a fair bit more damage along with having more reliable heals and reacting to bad situations far better. When it comes to shields, SCH seems to just be overall better at that, too.

I've heard a lot of differing opinions on SGE, so i thought I'd ask here. Why do you play it over the others? What does it bring to the table that the others dont? (or dont do as well)

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There's only one reason you actually need, and it's 'lasers go brrrrr.'
If that's not enough, then SGE probably isn't for you. :P

For my opinion though, I'm finding SGE to be really fun and I don't get the same feeling of guilt that I get from other healers when I'm focusing on DPSing more than straight heals. With SGE I'm more comfortable allowing the tank to take damage as I spam Dosis rather than throwing on a regen with WHM and spamming glare... It's a mindset thing for me. SGE *wants* to be a Green DPS and it feels more like it should be played as one. With that being said, it's also kind of deceptive because like SCH, you'll want to be thinking a few steps ahead with barriers and mitigation because your crisis tools kinda suck in comparison to the WHM or AST for when the shit hits the fan. Overall though, I find SGE fun and more engaging to play that the other healers and I enjoy the aethestics. It lacks a some of specialisation of the other healers - less support than AST, less "oh shit!" tools than WHM, weaker shields than SCH - but it does pretty much everything well. It's the Jack of all Trades healer, and it's a blast.

Cooler cpose when the weapons are drawn.

None.

Ok now that I got the most unhelpful answer out my system I don't play SGE because:

- I already play WHM w/ Cards and I have no desire to play SCH w/o Fairy
- Icarus is legitimately the only thing I find fun about it
- The aesthetic doesn't work for me

Personally, play the healers yourself and pick the one you like.

All the healers are viable.
All the healers have things about them that people either like or dislike (I hate how slow WHM is but that seems to be what WHM mains like and so I stick to high APM AST).
You won't know if you like it unless you play it.

I play all four healers, but I mainly raid on SGE. Here’s the reasons why I’d pick each one to play—some of them boil down to “what kind of content am I doing” and “what is my mood today”.

White Mage—I tend to play WHM when I want to completely turn my brain off and not think about anything. Compared to its direct competitor (AST), WHM doesn’t have anything to think about, so I can just mindlessly spam Glare until my controller button breaks. Exactly as the developers intended! :D With the changes to the Lilies and Misery now being DPS neutral, I am not punished for using them; I feel like they’re pretty comfy, and I always have them as an answer for raidwides. I don’t like playing WHM pre-76 because I have no idea why we need to wait that long for Afflatus Rapture, but what do I know. I’d rather a WHM in low level content over the other healers, I guess? I don’t know. None of them are that great to play below level 70, in my opinion. Even if they aren’t all that different, they tend to have more fun healing stuff at higher levels versus just GCDs at lower ones.

I do really like Assize’s animation, so another plus?


Astrologian—I tend to play AST when I want some mental stimulation from a healer. It’s the only one that requires any amount of thought put into how it’s played, and that’s usually in regards to card utilization and optimization. If I want to play card games, then I play AST. It also has a fairly decent healing toolkit that was the main reason I even bothered to look at it after ShB butchered the card system. I used to prog on AST because it was the healer I was most comfortable on—but now I take WHM or SGE for newer content/prog because I don’t want to have to think about the cards. However, AST’s current mana economy does make it a bit easier to recover from. I used it on my first run of Aglaia this patch, and I think the others would have struggled with mana from all the Raising I had to do. Plus, Lightspeed + Ascend was really handy for getting people up and getting them up quickly.


Sage—Uh, it has laser beams and how could you go wrong with that??? To be honest, the main draw for me when it comes to SGE is its aesthetic, and it’s why I swapped from physical ranged to healer in Savage. I play SGE in raids, and I tend to play it when I want oGCD answers to literally everything. SGE has a well-rounded oGCD healing toolkit, and Addersgall is a lot smoother system than SCH’s Aetherflow, in my opinion. I like how more controlled Kardia is over Embrace, and I like swapping it around to heal people when they stand in the bad/take avoidable damage. It gives me another small layer of something to do versus just using an oGCD on them and calling it a day.

However, I don’t like playing SGE in anything under level 70 because I don’t have any of my fun healing stuff, and Kerachole doesn’t have a regen under level 78 (much sadge). Ironically, I cannot stand the sound of Eukrasian Prognosis. Mostly because so many SGEs spam it like it’s the only button on their bars. (Don’t do that.)


Scholar—I tend to play SCH when I just want to meme it up because it’s the weakest of my four healers. I’ve never been the best at it, but I’ll play it on occasion when I want something “different”. I’ve always liked the fairy, and I wish it was less clunky/more expanded upon. Mostly, I think I go for SCH when I want an aesthetic change.



If I’m spamming content—like maybe the 24-man for my weekly drop, I tend to shuffle between the healers just for variety. But sometimes I just want my brain turned off, so I’ll opt to play SGE. Contrary to what some say, I personally don’t find it any more engaging than WHM. I think it’s pretty simple to play and doesn’t really require as much thought as other say it does. At most, you have to plan out oGCD usages, but that’s really not that difficult to do. After doing the dance for any encounter a few times, you’ll learn when and where things are available, and SGE will usually always have an oGCD answer to every raidwide if you manage them properly.

SGE’s damage and healing outputs are fine. Personal damage is higher than SCH/AST to account for the lack of any sort of raid buffs, and its healing isn’t anything to scoff at. I do more HPS than my AST co-healer in Savage raids on a very consistent basis (not to say they don’t heal—they do). It may not have the “recovery potential” that WHM has, but honestly, WHM’s recovery potential is lower this expansion than in the previous ones—mainly due to things like it’s mana economy not being bottomless like it was in SB and ShB. SGE isn’t meant to be a recovery healer, though—it’s a healer that mitigates/prevents damage by using its toolkit. It does have some reactive heals to it (Physis, Ixochole), so it’s not entirely proactive. Kind of a mixture of proactive and reactive.

I honestly don’t use GCD shields that often, so I’m talking more so about its oGCD kit: Haima, Panhaima, Kerachole, and Holos. E.Diag and E.Prog I rarely use in content (unless it’s the only thing I have due to something like level sync—or my party is that much of a mess that I’ve burned through all my Addersgall stacks), and I hardly never press Pepsis. My two go-to heals are Kerachole and Ixochole—one or the other will be up for virtually any raidwide in any piece of content in this game, so it can be just as “reactive” as WHM can be, in my opinion.




At the end of the day, I think it boils down to which healer aesthetic do you like, and which toolkit do you prefer. Healers are mostly all the same job with a different coat of paint on them. They’re all very strong and can do basically the same things as each other. They’re all ridiculously easy to play; they all have the relatively same DPS kit (you’ll spend most of your time using that over your healing kit, so that’s why I’m pointing it out). There isn’t much of a difference, in my opinion. At a basic/more casual level, they all more or less bring the same things to a party. Pick your favorite and go with it.

I agree that SGE seems lacking. I only played SGE to level 80 and I was already starting to struggle with large pulls in the Shadowbringers dungeons that are cake walks as the other three healers. WHM and AST have their HoTs to continue trickle healing the Tanks as they weave damage, move around, and perform healing. SCH has their fairy. SGE can only trickle heal reliably while doing damage, which you are not always doing while dodging mechincs, repositioning, and healing. They are at a huge disadvantage with their trickle heal mechanic compared to other healers.

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Originally Posted by Bonkleberry

I agree that SGE seems lacking. I only played SGE to level 80 and I was already starting to struggle with large pulls in the Shadowbringers dungeons that are cake walks as the other three healers. WHM and AST have their HoTs to continue trickle healing the Tanks as they weave damage, move around, and perform healing. SCH has their fairy. SGE can only trickle heal reliably while doing damage, which you are not always doing while dodging mechincs, repositioning, and healing. They are at a huge disadvantage with their trickle heal mechanic compared to other healers.

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...No? Sage is actually the strongest dungeon healer, has damage neutral AoE heal that also mitigates and enough tools to keep attacking nearly 100% of the time, Haima and Panhaima literally trivializes wall to walls and when used properly are among the strongest heals every healer has, shielding between pulls become a gain thanks to toxicon and later on it unlocks Pneuma which is not only an AoE gain but can be a 900 potency AoE heal. In dungeons Sage is second to none

Sage for when you want to play the strongest solo healer or want a streamlined Sch experience, Sch is better for optimization and 8 mans if you have a decent cohealer and Whm is for when you want a slower gameplay not caring much about weaving

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Originally Posted by Bonkleberry

I agree that SGE seems lacking. I only played SGE to level 80 and I was already starting to struggle with large pulls in the Shadowbringers dungeons that are cake walks as the other three healers. WHM and AST have their HoTs to continue trickle healing the Tanks as they weave damage, move around, and perform healing. SCH has their fairy. SGE can only trickle heal reliably while doing damage, which you are not always doing while dodging mechincs, repositioning, and healing. They are at a huge disadvantage with their trickle heal mechanic compared to other healers.

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1.At start of the wall to wall pull, do some damage until tank drops to 70% HP or lower. Run, tag mobs with Eukrasian Dosis or shield your tank with Eukrasian Diagnosis.
2.After tank stops and have less than 70% HP, Apply Physis II + Kerachole + Haima together OR Physis II + Kerachole + Panhaima together so your regens heal while the shield takes time to break
3.Watch as tank turn immortal as you DPS for the next 15 seconds
4.Apply an addersgall healing if needed (Taurochole/Kerachole), or Holos + Soteria and continue to DPS as you watch the HP drop to a slow crawl
5.Repeat steps 1 to 4.

Sage is all about layering regens/mitigations/barriers together so damage comes very slowly (or none at all) and they can DPS to heal the remaining amount. If you can remember to stack skills together, you won't run into this issue at all because waves are designed to be cleared within ~60 seconds between wall to wall pulls, so Physis II and Kerachole will always be up to start, followed by a rotation of Haima, Panhaima, Holos & Soteria. If your team is doing above average DPS, then you can apply a Taurochole instead of a Kerachole while waiting for Physis II to be off cooldown.

With the new change to Soteria, now you heal 20% more per Kardion activation, so attacking the enemy is not an issue unless you're moving a lot more than needed. If you need to, you can always start moving between casting Dosis (1.5 second cast, but you have roughly ~1.5 seconds rather than 1 second to move since you only need to wait 0.8 seconds before the cast is guaranteed to finish). Alternatively, for heavy movement phases, use your Phlegma III. The more instances where you have to move and cannot attack, the more instances you lose healing and damage (which is worse than not using Phlegma in DPS buff windows), so just think ahead of where you want to position yourself and use Phlegma, Dosis, or Icarus to move quickly before optimizing your Phlegma casts for DPS. If you're heavily struggling for movement optimization to the point you can't keep up with healing, you can always use Toxikon I for movement too.

At level 90, you simply do the same steps, but add Krasis before using Physis II.

If you did all the above suggestions correctly, it's a gear issue or your tank's just not mitigating.

When I heal I play SCH if I want to do something that needs to be relied on. - the meme skill is actually a super powerful tool in many cases with the speed boost and mitigation. Scholar has a very good kit but it does take a bit of time to get the feel of when to use what.

I play SGE when I am leveling with some friends and I ALWAYS find it lacking. I just don't know what the fudge am I doing wrong but in all situations where if I would take a scholar, I would be able to do a bits of dpsing in between, with SGE I cannot do dpsing even though it should be good enough as a heal, it isnt... Maybe if I reach 90 my opinion will change.

Astro is good heal, good buff to the party. LOTS OF BUTTONS. But I really like the feel of it though. I like it much better than SGE.

WHM: I am leveling it, I cannot really form opinion on the job so far. But I met so many WHM with "interesting" mindsets... this made me reluctant for a long time to even touch this job.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

I play SGE when I am leveling with some friends and I ALWAYS find it lacking. I just don't know what the fudge am I doing wrong but in all situations where if I would take a scholar, I would be able to do a bits of dpsing in between, with SGE I cannot do dpsing even though it should be good enough as a heal, it isnt... Maybe if I reach 90 my opinion will change..

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Haima/Panhaima (Alternate between pulls, I generally start with Pan so it's up for bosses that might want it) + Kerachole, Taurochole (+Physis II sometimes), Kerachole. Most if not all trash should be dead before that set of mitigation buffs fall off. If something's going wrong, you've still got Holos, then Kerachole, Taurochole, Kerachole again before you hit a period where there's no mitigation up. Just short of two full minutes of -10% damage, and a minute overall of regeneration on top of your Kardia. Generally the only reason you'd need to heal directly is if your tank isn't mitigating right or has just grabbed more than the group's gear can handle.

If we're talking about healer performance, I see no reason to choose WHM over any of the other healers, let alone SGE. The Misery buff really helped WHM catch up with the healing capabilities and DPS uptime as the other healers, but WHM still lags behind every other healer in overall lack of damage, limited mitigation tools, and utter lack of utility.

AST, SGE, and SCH all feel more balanced with nuance, and any combination of these 3 has its own merits.

SGE also lacks utility like WHM does, but actually does have numbers to back that up. Play it well, and SGE is able to edge out SCH and AST in damage by a fair chunk. It also offers the most consistent sustained healing, largely invalidating the need to worry about chip damage on the main tank, and has lots of mitigation to keep up with hard hitting raid-wides.

SCH shares some of SGE's strengths in mitigation and sustain, though offers lower total damage. Chain Stratagem helps to a point, but a good SGE will still outperform SCH. Instead, SCH offers some elements of utility that can help parties that may continue to have difficulty with specific mechanics. Expedient helps for position-heavy mechanics, and deployment critlo is the largest party barrier in the game, enabling a team to survive through really busy mechanics or messy performance. Neither of these are necessary, but they add a layer of safety that SGE does not provide.

AST offers both incredibly burst healing and sustain healing. SCH and SGE is a powerful combo, but can at times struggle with burst healing where AST can resolve it entirely with Macrocosmos by themselves. Their biggest weakness is their low total damage contributions, but since a part of that stems from party buffs, even moreso than SCH. For statics, healers are typically lowest priority on raid gear, but AST's buffs will be further enhanced when their party's DPS get new gear, making them that much more valuable in the early stages of a raid tier. This is true for SCH as well and hurts WHM and SGE.

fReason I play sage

Whm= bad mp management and mobility. Sage can easy fix big damage with powerful ogcs like physis +kera to things like zoe that can increase heals.

Sch= shields is caster and sages are instant. E diag or least mine covers mine or entire dps bar or half tank bar( i can show pics) and again is instant. Sage kardia is better than silly slow fairy heals. sages are not locked out of anything unlike sch clunky pet stuff.

Sages shields can beat schs both party and single wise cause again zoe krasis increasing spell potency of heals. hamia and panima not only does good migi it does big burst heals per shield stack, something sch weak shields cant do so theres a reason to shield more. sage mp management is excellent ever worry on mp issue. Books as weapon is so silly imo, I rather my lovely flying weapons like ast telekensis globes or rdm floating thingies.

Ast= got boring into a mobile cheaper whm and the lore of the job is totally lost its still good am sure but meh. Like sge is called copy paste ofc sch ast is same thing with minor differences just like how sage have some minor differences to sch

Few things too I didnt mention is holos and incarus. Am glad I got a dream to got a gap close as a healer and sage as a poweful aoe early at 26 both good in trash and boss fights event something the other 3 do not have. phelgma is a nice 550 pot hit on boss so the reduce 50% damage is pointless which only would apply on trash mobs clearing.

Idk why sch shields are priclaim better when e diag and alco is both powerful the same. Hamia and pani migi then big burst heals and kera and holos reduce 10% each and stack. only time sch party shields are better imo is that extra annoying step.of recite with dt else by itself succor is weak. Noct ast still had better party shields than sge or sch to me still lol and dirunal shields and noct shields all could stack. Miss you sb ast.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

1.At start of the wall to wall pull, do some damage until tank drops to 70% HP or lower. Run, tag mobs with Eukrasian Dosis or shield your tank with Eukrasian Diagnosis.
2.After tank stops and have less than 70% HP, Apply Physis II + Kerachole + Haima together OR Physis II + Kerachole + Panhaima together so your regens heal while the shield takes time to break
3.Watch as tank turn immortal as you DPS for the next 15 seconds
4.Apply an addersgall healing if needed (Taurochole/Kerachole), or Holos + Soteria and continue to DPS as you watch the HP drop to a slow crawl
5.Repeat steps 1 to 4.

Sage is all about layering regens/mitigations/barriers together so damage comes very slowly (or none at all) and they can DPS to heal the remaining amount. If you can remember to stack skills together, you won't run into this issue at all because waves are designed to be cleared within ~60 seconds between wall to wall pulls, so Physis II and Kerachole will always be up to start, followed by a rotation of Haima, Panhaima, Holos & Soteria. If your team is doing above average DPS, then you can apply a Taurochole instead of a Kerachole while waiting for Physis II to be off cooldown.

With the new change to Soteria, now you heal 20% more per Kardion activation, so attacking the enemy is not an issue unless you're moving a lot more than needed. If you need to, you can always start moving between casting Dosis (1.5 second cast, but you have roughly ~1.5 seconds rather than 1 second to move since you only need to wait 0.8 seconds before the cast is guaranteed to finish). Alternatively, for heavy movement phases, use your Phlegma III. The more instances where you have to move and cannot attack, the more instances you lose healing and damage (which is worse than not using Phlegma in DPS buff windows), so just think ahead of where you want to position yourself and use Phlegma, Dosis, or Icarus to move quickly before optimizing your Phlegma casts for DPS. If you're heavily struggling for movement optimization to the point you can't keep up with healing, you can always use Toxikon I for movement too.

At level 90, you simply do the same steps, but add Krasis before using Physis II.

If you did all the above suggestions correctly, it's a gear issue or your tank's just not mitigating.

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Only time I struggle with dungeon pulls is with dark nights, else I never really struggle specially out dated shadow bringers issue.

I went SGE over SCH (casual main 2.x-5.55) because SGE is the new toy that was most likely to have fun things (for a healer anyway) over SCH that get it's gameplay nerfed every ~2 patchs.
Gameplay is kinda the same ; It feels a bit more snappy with the eukrasia and pan/haima ; you can pre-shield while running which is nice ; shielding is rewarded.
On the downsides, you'll find yourself dumping stacks in kera just for mp when there's nothing to heal. and when there's a lot to heal it may be a bit harder if things are on CD.
I still miss my fairies and whacking people with my book for aestetics reasons, but I just don't feel like touching SCH again (even if meta say it's good).
and SGE gameplay kinda got nerfed from 6.0->6.1 too ; I have mixed feelings on Soteria and the full sting buff means there's no point shielding at the start. (but that ballance out with SCH waddle nerf)

I personally don’t see the Toxikon change as a nerf. It was a decent QoL for fights that don’t have a raidwide hitting within the first 10-20 seconds (P1S is an example of this). This way, you don’t lose out on mobility tools simply because the boss doesn’t open with a raidwide—versus before, you would just not get stacks…or, at most, 1 stack because you pre-shielded the MT.

I think the Soteria change mathed out to be a slight nerf? I can’t remember. I’d have to look it up. I didn’t really see the point in it being made into a stack-like mechanic, and I’m not sure what logic they used behind the decision.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I personally don’t see the Toxikon change as a nerf. It was a decent QoL for fights that don’t have a raidwide hitting within the first 10-20 seconds (P1S is an example of this). This way, you don’t lose out on mobility tools simply because the boss doesn’t open with a raidwide—versus before, you would just not get stacks…or, at most, 1 stack because you pre-shielded the MT.

I think the Soteria change mathed out to be a slight nerf? I can’t remember. I’d have to look it up. I didn’t really see the point in it being made into a stack-like mechanic, and I’m not sure what logic they used behind the decision.

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Soteria is a waste imo idk but I feel it needs a total rework or be gone and pepsi too. krasis now i have a like hate relationship for it sometimes it feels useful and other times I am like oh shoo it exists similar to snastry of ast.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Soteria is a waste imo idk but I feel it needs a total rework or be gone and pepsi too. krasis now i have a like hate relationship for it sometimes it feels useful and other times I am like oh shoo it exists similar to snastry of ast.

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-1 for literally all of this. Soteria is great for when your tanks knows what they're doing and you can focus DPS instead - saves you oGCD resources when you can just boost your Kardion heals. Pepsis is also an incredible AOE tool for dealing with raidwides and any time I see someone saying that it's bad/needs a rework/needs to be removed, I have to question if we're even playing the same class. One combo I've been using very effectively is Physis (for auto-physis) > E.Prog > Pepsis and it's genuinely enough to get everyone in range back up to full HP in the blink of an eye after a big raidwide. Krasis again, an under utilised and misunderstood tool - try using it in conjuction with Soteria and just see how crazy your Kardion heals become as you spam Dosis, Phlegma and Toxikon and weave these two abilities in between. Generally speaking when I play SGE, I'm not relying on my Addersgall to do all the work for me and needlessly throwing away resources that are going to take to regenerate when there's plenty of tools right there on my ability bar that could do the job just as well if not better.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

-1 for literally all of this. Soteria is great for when your tanks knows what they're doing and you can focus DPS instead - saves you oGCD resources when you can just boost your Kardion heals. Pepsis is also an incredible AOE tool for dealing with raidwides and any time I see someone saying that it's bad/needs a rework/needs to be removed, I have to question if we're even playing the same class. One combo I've been using very effectively is Physis (for auto-physis) > E.Prog > Pepsis and it's genuinely enough to get everyone in range back up to full HP in the blink of an eye after a big raidwide. Krasis again, an under utilised and misunderstood tool - try using it in conjuction with Soteria and just see how crazy your Kardion heals become as you spam Dosis, Phlegma and Toxikon and weave these two abilities in between. Generally speaking when I play SGE, I'm not relying on my Addersgall to do all the work for me and needlessly throwing away resources that are going to take to regenerate when there's plenty of tools right there on my ability bar that could do the job just as well if not better.

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I play SGE a lot in a myriad of content from dungeons to Savage/Ultimate, and I honestly don’t use Pepsis that often. Addersgall tools are more than enough for raidwides, and they should always be used first and foremost. Not only are they stronger than your GCD tools (with the exception of Pneuma, of course), they also regenerate your mana. Addersgall regeneration is once every 20 seconds, plus Rhizomata to give you a free stack every 90 seconds should you need one. Most content you’ll always have stacks because there simply isn’t enough outgoing damage to force you to blow through all of them prior to any regenerating. GCD barriers are weaker, and a mana drain. And to buff it like you’re saying you do is blowing more resources than necessary for most content in this game. Why use 2 or 3 things in your toolkit when you can get the same result using just one oGCD?

I think the only time I’ve resorted to using Pepsis is when I had literally nothing left in my kit. Either because I was synced down and missing all my fun stuff, or because I’m doing a lot of babysitting and my party is eating through all of my resources. My GCD barriers are the last things I touch when it comes to combat, so I don’t really see eye-to-eye on the Pepsis hype here.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I play SGE a lot in a myriad of content from dungeons to Savage/Ultimate, and I honestly don’t use Pepsis that often. Addersgall tools are more than enough for raidwides, and they should always be used first and foremost. Not only are they stronger than your GCD tools, they also regenerate your mana. Addersgall regeneration is once every 20 seconds, plus Rhizomata to give you a free stack every 90 seconds should you need one. Most content you’ll always have stacks because there simply isn’t enough outgoing damage to force you to blow through all of them prior to any regenerating. GCD barriers are weaker, and a mana drain.

I think the only time I’ve resorted to using Pepsis is when I had literally nothing left in my kit. Either because I was synced down and missing all my fun stuff, or because I’m doing a lot of babysitting and my party is eating through all of my resources. My GCD barriers are the last things I touch when it comes to combat, so I don’t really see eye-to-eye on the Pepsis hype here.

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The reason you're not seeing eye-to-eye is because you're misrepresenting the point. It's not the shield I care about because we agree that the GCD barriers aren't great - which is where Pepsis comes in. Burn the shields and turn it into Addersgall-free burst healing.
With Physis up and the Auto-Physis bonus happening on the oGCD, you pop Eurkrasia + Prognosis to increase it to a 330 potency heal on all party members in range. The shielding itself doesn't matter all that much because it'll get burned on the Pepsis which itself turns into a 385 potency heal with Auto-Physis still up for a combined potency of 715 burst on top of the regen you're already applying from Physis and at that point it's a set-it and forget-it kind of deal. I'd much rather pop this combo than waste Addersgall on something like Ixochole when it's not necessary, particularly given its cooldown. Give it a shot and integrate it more, I guarantee you'll be converted. I largely ignored Pepsis myself for all of this expansion but I have been playing nothing but Sage for the last couple weeks now but I've introduced it more into my play and it's a really powerful tool if you let it be.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

The reason you're not seeing eye-to-eye is because you're misrepresenting the point. It's not the shield I care about because we agree that the GCD barriers aren't great - which is where Pepsis comes in. Burn the shields and turn it into Addersgall-free burst healing.
With Physis up and the Auto-Physis bonus happening on the oGCD, you pop Eurkrasia + Prognosis to increase it to a 330 potency heal on all party members in range. The shielding itself doesn't matter all that much because it'll get burned on the Pepsis which itself turns into a 385 potency heal with Auto-Physis still up for a combined potency of 715 burst on top of the regen you're already applying from Physis and at that point it's a set-it and forget-it kind of deal. I'd much rather pop this combo than waste Addersgall on something like Ixochole when it's not necessary, particularly given its cooldown. Give it a shot and integrate it more, I guarantee you'll be converted. I largely ignored Pepsis myself for all of this expansion but I have been playing nothing but Sage for the last couple weeks now but I've introduced it more into my play and it's a really powerful tool if you let it be.

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I doubt that, because I prefer to play more efficiently when it comes to both my GCD and my resource management. Why would I blow Physis, waste a GCD on a barrier, and then break the shield when Kerachole and Ixochole get the same result? And they are more than enough to handle most raidwides—especially if you aren’t even doing high-end content. Their cooldowns are incredibly short given how powerful both are, and one or the other (or both) will be available for most raidwides in most content. If you need a burst heal, that’s what Zoe+Pneuma is for. To be honest, even naked Pneuma is overkill for a lot of content. The necessary healing is just too low.

A better use of your GCD is Dosis III. Not E.Prog. But you do you. I just don’t put as much stock in it as you due to how objectively inefficient it ends up being compared to literally any other resource in your kit. Maybe DRU will require it, but so far I haven’t used it outside of panic-healing during Week 1 P4S prog. Other than that, it’s virtually been untouched for me.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

-1 for literally all of this. Soteria is great for when your tanks knows what they're doing and you can focus DPS instead - saves you oGCD resources when you can just boost your Kardion heals. Pepsis is also an incredible AOE tool for dealing with raidwides and any time I see someone saying that it's bad/needs a rework/needs to be removed, I have to question if we're even playing the same class. One combo I've been using very effectively is Physis (for auto-physis) > E.Prog > Pepsis and it's genuinely enough to get everyone in range back up to full HP in the blink of an eye after a big raidwide. Krasis again, an under utilised and misunderstood tool - try using it in conjuction with Soteria and just see how crazy your Kardion heals become as you spam Dosis, Phlegma and Toxikon and weave these two abilities in between. Generally speaking when I play SGE, I'm not relying on my Addersgall to do all the work for me and needlessly throwing away resources that are going to take to regenerate when there's plenty of tools right there on my ability bar that could do the job just as well if not better.

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I can press physis and kera or physis and ixo and all healing problems is easily fixed. Pepsi is too nitche and really not needed to cover big damage i do use krasis with physis and zoe I said I just have a like/dislike triangle of it but yeah soteria and pepsi I do amazing without so everyone had their own picking on spells. Example some people want physis change or gone and I have 0 issue with it, its really how some people look at some things. E prog and Pepsi cant come close to kera + ixo or physis + ixo oh and there is holos too so why bother with pepsi again? Eprog + pepsi is dps lost too since you gotta eurka first when you could already had hit kera+ixo and full heal + slight migi there you go

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Why would I blow Physis, waste a GCD on a barrier, and then break the shield when Kerachole and Ixochole get the same result?

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The result isn't the same though. You get out one extra little attack and blow two stacks of your best healing resources that will take 40 seconds to regenerate for the sake of so-called efficiency. I'm using nothing but MP and saving those stacks for other things. Surely if you really did want to be efficient, you'd be blowing Physis + Ixo for a stronger overall regen and a boost to the healing done by Ixo for the cost of 1 addersgall stack instead of two which is just objectively better for resource management as MP is used to pop the Physis and then immediately restored by the Ixo.

As far as I'm concerned, Addersgall isn't there to be spammed but don't think I'm just sitting hoarding stacks of it either - I'm just saying that SGE has multiple ways of doing the same thing without needlessly burning stacks for the sake of getting out one extra Dosis. The best use of the GCD is doing whatever is best for the party, not your parse.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Eprog + pepsi is dps lost too

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The irony of you saying this when you have "If you want more damage play a dps " as your forum signature is palpable.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I doubt that, because I prefer to play more efficiently when it comes to both my GCD and my resource management. Why would I blow Physis, waste a GCD on a barrier, and then break the shield when Kerachole and Ixochole get the same result? And they are more than enough to handle most raidwides—especially if you aren’t even doing high-end content. Their cooldowns are incredibly short given how powerful both are, and one or the other (or both) will be available for most raidwides in most content. If you need a burst heal, that’s what Zoe+Pneuma is for. To be honest, even naked Pneuma is overkill for a lot of content. The necessary healing is just too low.

A better use of your GCD is Dosis III. Not E.Prog. But you do you. I just don’t put as much stock in it as you due to how objectively inefficient it ends up being compared to literally any other resource in your kit. Maybe DRU will require it, but so far I haven’t used it outside of panic-healing during Week 1 P4S prog. Other than that, it’s virtually been untouched for me.

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This, and why would I wanna blow my big crit E oh my god it cover my dps/my entire bar or half tank bar and burn it via pepsi like heck no I love eating a tank buster as a healer or when we had a bad tank and the boss was cast the TB on my friend(ninja) that big E diag saved his behind on a very clutch moment enabling me to pick up the time and prevent use from wiping when boss was like only 5% e.e , glad we both on the same page ^^. 0 use for pepsi no matter how convincing one try to make it I dont like it or use it period. Too many other easy ways to fix big wide raid damage and we both mention what they are.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

The result isn't the same though. You get out one extra little attack and blow two stacks of your best healing resources that will take 40 seconds to regenerate for the sake of so-called efficiency.

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You don’t need to use both. You can use one or the other. You misread my post.

They will both give you the same result as Physis + E.Prog + Pepsis — and you’ve used 1/3 of the resources in the process, conserve MP, and regenerate it. Kerachole is mitigation + HoT, and Ixochole is just regular heal after the damage. For most content, you will always have one or the other available for a raidwide. And you don’t even have to interrupt your damage GCDs for it.

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I'm using nothing but MP and saving those stacks for other things.

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For what? The regeneration is fast enough on Addersgall that you will never not have stacks unless everything bad is happening. E.Prog (and GCD heals in general) have always been regarded as last resort options for healers. This has been the case for years. Your oGCDs are simply stronger, and SGE is definitely not lacking in them. Utilize them first.

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Surely if you really did want to be efficient, you'd be blowing Physis + Ixo for a stronger overall regen and a boost to the healing done by Ixo for the cost of 1 addersgall stack instead of two which is just objectively better for resource management as MP is used to pop the Physis and then immediately restored by the Ixo.

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No. I would use one or the other because one or the other is more than enough to take care of the healing required. Healing requirements are very low in this game outside of specific high-end fights. And even those don’t have as many heal checks as they should.

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As far as I'm concerned, Addersgall isn't there to be spammed but don't think I'm just sitting hoarding stacks of it either - I'm just saying that SGE has multiple ways of doing the same thing without needlessly burning stacks for the sake of getting out one extra Dosis. The best use of the GCD is doing whatever is best for the party, not your parse.

The irony of you saying this when you have "If you want more damage play a dps " as your forum signature is palpable.

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Addersgall is your priority over GCDs. That is the case for all healers, with the exception of WHM. oGCDs > GCDs. It has very little to do with parsing, and everything to do with using your kit effectively and efficiently. But thank you for the strawman argument.

And by the way, I’m not the one with the “if you want to deal damage, play a DPS” signature. My signature has Korean song lyrics in it.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

The result isn't the same though. You get out one extra little attack and blow two stacks of your best healing resources that will take 40 seconds to regenerate for the sake of so-called efficiency. I'm using nothing but MP and saving those stacks for other things. Surely if you really did want to be efficient, you'd be blowing Physis + Ixo for a stronger overall regen and a boost to the healing done by Ixo for the cost of 1 addersgall stack instead of two which is just objectively better for resource management as MP is used to pop the Physis and then immediately restored by the Ixo.

As far as I'm concerned, Addersgall isn't there to be spammed but don't think I'm just sitting hoarding stacks of it either - I'm just saying that SGE has multiple ways of doing the same thing without needlessly burning stacks for the sake of getting out one extra Dosis. The best use of the GCD is doing whatever is best for the party, not your parse.



The irony of you saying this when you have "If you want more damage play a dps " as your forum signature is palpable.

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good try about trying to use my signature as an excuse to try justify why pepsi should be used, you may use it and find a use for it and I respect that however I have no use for it because there is too many powerful tools in sage kit to easily cover raid wide heavy damage. Happy pepsis to ya friend.

Because pew pew baby! I'm like Han solos blaster x4!!

Hmm I guess I like SGE for its ease of use vs SCH's kit. They're similar but SCH having heals and actions that originate from the fairy location makes it a little bit more work imo, even if it's something minor like having to place them again after Seraph. It makes SCH heals better for some situations though! Like having arena-wide coverage healing without needing to move your character to the middle which is super nice for stuff like P3S FoF or P4S Act 2. But yeah for me, it really just boils down to SGE being the simple, easy to pick up shield healer class with nice mobility. I like it :)

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

The result isn't the same though. You get out one extra little attack and blow two stacks of your best healing resources that will take 40 seconds to regenerate for the sake of so-called efficiency. I'm using nothing but MP and saving those stacks for other things. Surely if you really did want to be efficient, you'd be blowing Physis + Ixo for a stronger overall regen and a boost to the healing done by Ixo for the cost of 1 addersgall stack instead of two which is just objectively better for resource management as MP is used to pop the Physis and then immediately restored by the Ixo.

As far as I'm concerned, Addersgall isn't there to be spammed but don't think I'm just sitting hoarding stacks of it either - I'm just saying that SGE has multiple ways of doing the same thing without needlessly burning stacks for the sake of getting out one extra Dosis. The best use of the GCD is doing whatever is best for the party, not your parse.



The irony of you saying this when you have "If you want more damage play a dps " as your forum signature is palpable.

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I'm only a lowly blue-purple parsing SGE in savage, so take my experience with a grain of salt, but Addersgall is absolutely meant to be your immediate go-to in content. Even in Savage I encounter moments where I run into issues overcapping on Addersgall and use Druochole for the MP despite the party being fully healed. Otherwise, I am alternating between Addersgall heals regularly. I have never once used Pepsis in Savage. I used E. Prognosis more during prog, but lately it's used for a PF party that's struggling, FoF during P3S, and P4S finale where I'd rather just get a little extra security even if I don't feel I need it. It's PF after all.

Addersgall is incredibly fast to regenerate and Addersgall heals have very low cooldowns. You also have Rhizomata if you actually do burn through stacks quickly. Generally, Holos, Pneuma, and Panhaima are more tools I use for tighter situations where my Addersgall is on cooldown. If you are choosing E. Prognosis/Diagnosis over Addersgall, you are playing SGE wrong.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'm only a lowly blue-purple parsing SGE in savage, so take my experience with a grain of salt, but Addersgall is absolutely meant to be your immediate go-to in content. Even in Savage I encounter moments where I run into issues overcapping on Addersgall and use Druochole for the MP despite the party being fully healed. Otherwise, I am alternating between Addersgall heals regularly. I have never once used Pepsis in Savage. I used E. Prognosis more during prog, but lately it's used for a PF party that's struggling, FoF during P3S, and P4S finale where I'd rather just get a little extra security even if I don't feel I need it. It's PF after all.

Addersgall is incredibly fast to regenerate and Addersgall heals have very low cooldowns. You also have Rhizomata if you actually do burn through stacks quickly. Generally, Holos, Pneuma, and Panhaima are more tools I use for tighter situations where my Addersgall is on cooldown. If you are choosing E. Prognosis/Diagnosis over Addersgall, you are playing SGE wrong.

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The only use I've ever made of Pepsis was in between adds spawns when there's nothing targetable, full addersting and some hp to get back up on P3. But even then it's just because I'd never use it otherwise and it looks cool.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'm only a lowly blue-purple parsing SGE in savage, so take my experience with a grain of salt, but Addersgall is absolutely meant to be your immediate go-to in content. Even in Savage I encounter moments where I run into issues overcapping on Addersgall and use Druochole for the MP despite the party being fully healed. Otherwise, I am alternating between Addersgall heals regularly. I have never once used Pepsis in Savage. I used E. Prognosis more during prog, but lately it's used for a PF party that's struggling, FoF during P3S, and P4S finale where I'd rather just get a little extra security even if I don't feel I need it. It's PF after all.

Addersgall is incredibly fast to regenerate and Addersgall heals have very low cooldowns. You also have Rhizomata if you actually do burn through stacks quickly. Generally, Holos, Pneuma, and Panhaima are more tools I use for tighter situations where my Addersgall is on cooldown. If you are choosing E. Prognosis/Diagnosis over Addersgall, you are playing SGE wrong.

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Well said for once we are on the same page heh.

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Originally Posted by Teno

The only use I've ever made of Pepsis was in between adds spawns when there's nothing targetable, full addersting and some hp to get back up on P3. But even then it's just because I'd never use it otherwise and it looks cool.

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I think is natural for this or any game to seem to have a pointless or nitche ability. Heck in fighters you always have that one meme char almost none uses. Am sure each job have at least 1 skill they wont touch period. pepsi/undraw/cure3 idk what sch dont use though.

SGE is comfy. It doesn't feel like SCH where abilities come off as very connected to each other. You press your bind and you get what you need, outside of Eukrasia interactions which are nonetheless quick and encourage mobility. Despite its shield-healing focus its direct heals are powerful too. Also the effects are nice, although I dislike the sound design of Dosis and Phlegma at their max rank.