Ifrit is dead. What OTHER avatars would you like as Summoner?

Whenever I hear/read discussions about Summoners in FFXIV 2.0, I always hear the same thing: "It won't be Summoner if we can't summon the celestial avatars from XI, but they've already been adapted as the elemental Primals in XIV! What's the point of adding Summoner if the lore says we can't summon those?!" Thread after thread is then made voicing the complaint, "FIX THE LORE IF YOU MUST, BUT WE NEED TO SUMMON THE CELESTIAL AVATARS OF XI."

Sorry, fellow XI fans, but we're going to have to accept that it's time to move on. You can fight it all you want, but every game has to have its own lore -- otherwise it's just a remake or a sequel, neither of which XIV is intended to be. The devs are not likely to change this intention. As XIV must have its own lore in order to stand on its own, new lore also dictates that we should expect different avatars in XIV. This has been the case in every single Final Fantasy game so far.

(And with that in mind, if your love of Summoners comes only from your love for those eight celestial characters from XI, rather than your love of Summoner's ability to summon, then you should already be happy. Those eight beloved characters are already being included for you to witness in this game. They've been omitted from more Final Fantasy games than they ever appeared in, and they could have just as easily been omitted from this game completely, but they weren't. With that in mind, the fact that these characters are being included in XIV, let alone that we also get to fight them the same way that we did in XI, feels to me like a very generous tip of the hat, and is already far more than we ever should have expected.)

If a Summoner class is added to XIV, then we're going to have to accept that this game will provide players with its own unique mix of things to summon. Rather than cry to the devs in futility about how difficult it is for us to accept change and new ideas, why don't we simply accept that this particular change is inevitable? We can still be heard as a part of the Summoner development process! We just need to give the devs some new ideas, which they actually CAN listen to and use.

With that being said, I propose that those who are interested in a Summoner class start to offer some actual constructive ideas regarding the possible avatars of XIV's potential Summoner. Use this thread to cast your vote on which avatars you would like to one-day see summoned in XIV, excluding the elemental Primals that already exist in FFXIV lore.

To start you off with some ideas, I've compiled a list of the summons that have already appeared in Final Fantasy games. As FFXIV lore is not likely to permit Primals to be summoned by individual players, I have excluded Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, and Odin from this list. I also excluded the likely Primals of Ramuh, Shiva, and Alexander based on the assumption that XI's celestials will continue the trend of appearing as XIV's Primals.

Abaddon
Adrammelech
Ahriman
Alraune
Angelo
Anima
Aquarius
Argy
Ark
Asura
Atomos
Bahamut
Bahamut Fury
Bahamut ZERO
Balasa
Barbariccia
Behemoth
Belias
Bismarck
Boko
Bomb
Brothers
Brynhildr
Cactoid
Cactuar
Cagnazzo
Cait Sith
Calcabrina
Carbuncle
Catoblepas
Cerberus
Chaos
Chimera
Chocobo
Cockatrice
Coeurl
Crusader
Cu Sith
Cuchulainn
Cyclops
Death Knight
Deathgaze
Demon Wall
Diabolos
Djinn
Doomtrain
Dragon
Eden
Exodus
Faerie
Famfrit
Fenrir
Garchimacera
Giant of Babil
Giga-Phoenix
Gigas
Gilgamesh
Gnoam
Goblin
Golem
Gun Dragon
Hades
Hashmal
Hecatoncheir
Iron Giant
Ixion
Ixion Type-Zero
Kain
KigenDragon
Kirin
Kjata
Knights of the Round
Kraken
Lakshmi
Lamia
Land Worm
Lich
Little Pirate
Madeen
Maduin
Magic Pot
Malboro
Mandragora
Marilith
Mateus
Meteor Master
Midgarsomr
Mindflayer
Mini Mog
Minion
Moogles
Moomba
Mu
Ochu
Omega
Palom
Pandemona
Phantom
Phoenix
PuPu
Quetzalii
Quezacoatl
Ragnarok
Raiden
Ramih
Remora
Rubicante
Sagittarius
Sahagin
Salamander
Scarmiglione
Scorpion
Seraph
Shade
Shemhazai
Shinryu
Shivan
Shivar
Siren
Six to eight different lesser elementals already present in XIV
Sphere
SwordDragon
Syldra
Sylph
Tentacle
The Magus Sisters
Tiamat
Tonberry
Tri-Disaster
Typhoon
Ultima
Ultros
Unicorn
Valefor
Valigarmanda
White Hare
Whyt
Wyvern
Yojimbo
Zalera
Zeromus
Zodiark
Zona Seeker

That's a long, rich history of summonable avatars, all of which existed previously as summons somewhere in Final Fantasy's lengthy past. They were all fun to summon in the games that they appeared in, and they all have the potential to be made into something fun again.

So let's move on from the futile push for summoning XI's celestial avatars, and start giving the devs some input about Summoners that they actually CAN use! Let's offer some ideas for avatars that they actually CAN implement! Cast your votes on what "new" summons you would like to see by posting here. Make your voice heard, and let's get to talking!

Note: The above list is just ideas from past games to start you off. You're not limited to picking ideas from those that are on this list. Brand new ideas, descriptions, and illustrations are all welcome input as well!

all of them

I would love to have Bahamut but SE likes to make him too OP so my dreams will never come true.

Good post.

Essentially an avatar is just a pet. The skin doesn't matter at all however the statistics and the abilities do!

Summoners better pray to the 12 that the class plays the way they want it to rather than whining about the cosmetics!



And on another note - Whilst I like having the races from XI I'd prefer some completely new avatars. Stuff we've never ever seen before!
How about a fire avatar that isn't bloodthirsty for a change.

The elemental wheel itself has changed, too!
I imagine avatars will reflect this

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Originally Posted by Raymeo

Doomtrain

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All that matters.

CHOO CHOO!

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Hi my name is OP and I am going to alienate every single person who played FFXI because my opinion > your opinion.

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I just saved you about 2 minutes of text.

Also Doom Train

This is what i'd like to see.

Cerberus
Siren
Quezacoatl
Typhon
Brothers
Fenrir
Madeen

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

This is what i'd like to see.

Cerberus
Siren
Quezacoatl
Typhoon
Brothers
Fenrir
Madeen

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That's a very FFVIII set up
Imagine being in control of the Brothers!

It goes without saying, but I want to summon Abaddon.

ifrit was a terrestrial avatar, not celestial

Ifrit
Shiva
Ramuh
Titan
Leviathan
Carbuncle
Fenrir
Diabolos
Garuda

And a 15 min ability that let me call Alexander and Odin for a min.

Ok, now without joke, Ifrit and Shiva are a must.

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Originally Posted by vax

Ifrit
Shiva
Ramuh
Titan
Leviathan
Carbuncle
Fenrir
Diabolos
Garuda

And a 15 min ability that let me call Alexander and Odin for a min.

Ok, now without joke, Ifrit and Shiva are a must.

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most of those are primals, so it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Raymeo

Whenever I hear/read discussions about Summoners in FFXIV 2.0, I always hear the same thing: "It won't be Summoner if we can't summon the celestial avatars from XI, but they've already been adapted as the elemental Primals in XIV! What's the point of adding Summoner if the lore says we can't summon those?!"

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I've never seen this said, ever.

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Originally Posted by Deltara

ifrit was a terrestrial avatar, not celestial

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The purpose was to belittle XI fans, which is a common theme around these forums lol.

Inb4 "Oh sorry I meant terrestrial."

They already stated full well this time around lesser summons "Like Carbuncle" will be what summoners would use if/when they introduce the class/job, which means unlike XI they're going back to the "tier" system older FFs used with summons, i.e the ones you bought were powerful, the ones you challenged to obtain were powerful, the ones you got as a random drop were shit and so on.

I'd play SMN, if I could rename Carbuncle.. into.. Pepé le Pew

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Originally Posted by Deltara

ifrit was a terrestrial avatar, not celestial

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No ifrit is a celestial a god of the universe terastrial a gods from the earth. Ie salamander

And I pray se doesn't give summons a perpetual cost. If ppl who say this isn't 11 the it shouldn't have the cost 11 did

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Originally Posted by Deltara

ifrit was a terrestrial avatar, not celestial

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Ifrit was, in fact, Celestial.

Celestial Avatars:
Ifrit
Titan
Leviathan
Shiva
Garuda
Ramuh

Terrestrial Avatars:
Carbuncle
Fenrir
Diabolos
Phoenix
Bahamut

Officially Uncatagorized (Though Odin and Alexander are tied to the Celestials):
Atomos (Player name "Temporal Avatar")
Cait Sith (Tears of Altana)
Odin
Alexander

(This is all from the XI perspective)

Yep, given the story in XI, the Terrestrial were seen as the 'true gods', while celestial were seen as 'false gods' though they're just as powerful as the Terrestrial ones which is why they lay dormant.

I think during WoTG they just consider Atomos the Time & Space avatar. In XIV's world, there's Primals which are considered a higher being but technically aren't a governing force of Eorzea like how summons were to Vanadiel, so I doubt categories truly matter this time around, just which one isn't really put on a pedestal like Titan, Garuda, Ramuh and Ifrit is.

you got them mixed up Celestial are the true gods. Carbuncle even says it that if Ifrit Shiva, etc woken up from the crystals they are sleeping in that him fenrir bahamut and diablos would return to be animals as they were. and the crystal they were sleeping in were in the area right behind were you fought the Prime fights or solo fights you were basically fighting their astral projections.

and made a list in my post about what avatars we could get.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Talk-Summoner

i want ixion though

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Summoners better pray to the 12 that the class plays the way they want it to rather than whining about the cosmetics!

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Quoted for emphasis. Being able to summon Odin or Alexander is going to be pretty worthless if the class/job does not play in a way people can enjoy and willingly pick up. In short, I hope they don't copy XI's summoner here, as that would be pretty horrible.

Odin is a primal, you won't be summoning it, especially since they already stated how Company summoning will work (which is what gets the primals.)

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Originally Posted by Duelle

the class/job does not play in a way people can enjoy and willingly pick up.

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It's funny you say this, lots of people enjoy DRG, but guess what they can't do? That's right, they can't play as DRG because the community as a whole rather people go THM(BLM), WAR and ARC(BRD) for everything. (Ignoring obvious WHM needed.)

Btw, plenty of people enjoyed playing SMN, especially once the cap hit 99 and people maxed out their avatar staffs, so like or hate XI all you want you can't dictate if someone did or did not enjoy playing as a class, you can only exclude them (like it happens heavily in XIV.)

please support alll smns out there!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-for-Summoners!

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Btw, plenty of people enjoyed playing SMN, especially once the cap hit 99 and people maxed out their avatar staffs, so like or hate XI all you want you can't dictate if someone did or did not enjoy playing as a class, you can only exclude them (like it happens heavily in XIV.)

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You seem to miss the point. SMN had wasted database spaces in the form of (nerfed) spirits, and for a good 4 years the job was neutered in such a way that it's subjob was more useful to a party. Even now after the changes the job is still a far cry from what it could be. Not to mention I'm not much of a fan of gear being the "fix" (Pet: Stat gear instead of native scaling, Perpetuation staves, for example).

PS: Exclusion will stop when DPS is on par between DPS classes, encounter mechanics don't favor or inconvenience melee and/or ranged, parity between WAR, PLD and any future tanking jobs exist and speed runs are abolished. Tall order, but I'm sure the devs can pull it off.

Two versions of the Knights of the Round, one with the protagonists from each FF and the other with the antagonists from each FF. Convenietnly KOTR has 13 knights, and there are 13 FF before this :D

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Originally Posted by Supergroovegear

Two versions of the Knights of the Round, one with the protagonists from each FF and the other with the antagonists from each FF. Convenietnly KOTR has 13 knights, and there are 13 FF before this :D

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There's actually about 45 games before this one....

But yes, if only counting the numbered series. xD

Ifrit was a celestial avatar, not terrestrial. ^^

You know though, I am interested in seeing a lot of new summons this time around. We'll still get to summon the big primals, they'll just be tied to Free Companies and we'll only get to call them once per token (or card, or whatever yoshi called it). I wouldn't even mind the spirit elementals if they were a little more useful than FFXI's.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I've never seen this said, ever.

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Assuming this is sarcasm?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The purpose was to belittle XI fans, which is a common theme around these forums lol.

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I'm an XI fan. It's why I've stuck to XIV since release -- because I know from past experience that the company is capable of more, and I have faith that they'll do whatever they can to rise up to those expectations. The purpose of this thread is not to belittle anybody. It is to get a constructive discussion started in the parameters of what the future of XIV is actually going to allow, helping people move on from pleading to deaf ears for something that's already been taken off the table by creating a new outlet for people to get involved in.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Inb4 "Oh sorry I meant terrestrial."

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http://ffxi.procxide.net/Album/Image...r-Map-1600.jpg

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They already stated full well this time around lesser summons "Like Carbuncle" will be what summoners would use if/when they introduce the class/job, which means unlike XI they're going back to the "tier" system older FFs used with summons, i.e the ones you bought were powerful, the ones you challenged to obtain were powerful, the ones you got as a random drop were shit and so on.

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You're right -- they said no to Primals, and yes to less powerful beings. Or in other words, just about anything that's not a Primal is still possible. Hence the basis for this post, and the suggestion to move on to a discussion about what we would like those lesser beings to be. I won't accuse you of belittling FFXI fans for pointing out that they won't get Ifrit too, because that was not the point of your post any more than it was the point of mine. What I would like to know, however, is how do you get the implication of Summoners having access to a tiered system of avatars when all that the devs have stated, to my knowledge, is that Primals aren't going to be available as summons? Is that a giant leap, or have I missed something that links the two subjects?