Struggling with Endwalker endgame

Am I the only one who's struggling to stay focused on the raid mechanics? I have autism and possibly ADHD (the latter hasn't been diagnosed but suggested by my GP) and I'm finding trying to remember what happened several seconds before it goes off is really taxing. Endsinger is a perfect exampe of this where I need to remember what order things happened in and how I dealt with them earlier. It's not challenging at this point, it feels like it's punishing people for having the incapacity to memorize everything every single battle.

Its not punishing you or anyone else with disabilities. Not to step on toes but this is not the best game for anyone with memory issues. But also dont give up on the game especially if you enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Its not punishing you or anyone else with disabilities. Not to step on toes but this is not the best game for anyone with memory issues. But also dont give up on the game especially if you enjoy it.

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Yeah, I am enjoying it, but I do feel these latest fights are way more taxing than anything else I've done so far. I dunno, I get it's the end of the world scenario and in order to not make the game go too stale that each battle needs to one-up the previous, but it feels to me that it's asking a little too much to remember 3 different mechanics and which one is being repeated next.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Yeah, I am enjoying it, but I do feel these latest fights are way more taxing than anything else I've done so far. I dunno, I get it's the end of the world scenario and in order to not make the game go too stale that each battle needs to one-up the previous, but it feels to me that it's asking a little too much to remember 3 different mechanics and which one is being repeated next.

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This will be harsh but it simply has to be said. For the vast majority of people remembering what they did less than a minute ago isn't hard.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

This will be harsh but it simply has to be said. For the vast majority of people remembering what they did less than a minute ago isn't hard.

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Majority of people dont suffer with disability that can effect memory.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Yeah, I am enjoying it, but I do feel these latest fights are way more taxing than anything else I've done so far. I dunno, I get it's the end of the world scenario and in order to not make the game go too stale that each battle needs to one-up the previous, but it feels to me that it's asking a little too much to remember 3 different mechanics and which one is being repeated next.

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Unfortunately, the EX and up content simply may not be for you. Endsinger is pretty heavy on "remember what you just did and what order" mechanics, but EX and Savage basically relies on you being able to remember what each mechanic is for an entire fight. That's unavoidable.

Fortunately, Extreme and up difficulty content is all 100% optional and there is plenty of other content to do. Normal raids, trials, alliance raids, beast tribes, crafting and gathering stuff. And if you need something to grind for, the relic weapon will be starting sometime in the fall likely, and that can take a fair amount of time to do, especially if they do another thing like Eureka or Bozja.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Yeah, I am enjoying it, but I do feel these latest fights are way more taxing than anything else I've done so far. I dunno, I get it's the end of the world scenario and in order to not make the game go too stale that each battle needs to one-up the previous, but it feels to me that it's asking a little too much to remember 3 different mechanics and which one is being repeated next.

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All you've to remember is the point you needed to stack. E.g. if stack was the first, just keep in mind to stack if you get 3 rings. If you don't get 3 rings, just move out no matter if it's flare or aoe.

For the rest of the fight... just follow that 1 guy who knows what he is doing like 99% of all other players do.

Pretty much every fight is nothing but a choreography. And pretty much any fight can be carried by 1 guy knowing everything, meanwhile the rest follows. The only challenge is to make sure that the last guy on earth keeps following.

As someone who dislikes certain mechanics for similar reasons (no more E7 and E10 please), I do understand how you feel with regards to high-end raids.

The thing is though, a lot of mechanics can be trivialised once you figure out how they work. I've found breaking the mechanic down into it's simplest components has helped significantly with certain fights (still stuck on P3S though :/)

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

It's not challenging at this point, it feels like it's punishing people for having the incapacity to memorize everything every single battle.

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That is the challenge. You have things to memorize, fights are a puzzle to figure out and learning to handle each mechanic in your own way is meant to be difficult.

Like you said yourself, you're enjoying it. You've also cleared p2s so it's not like you aren't capable of endgame. What's most likely is you're pushing yourself too hard to learn the fights quickly and figure them out. The forums are probably the worst place to discuss this topic, because as you've seen the usual forum response is "it's easy", "EX isn't for you", "the majority of people can remember things just fine". This serves as a huge demotivation and can make you end up feeling you're just slower than everyone else.

As far as EX mechanics go, Endsinger is rather tricky. That's a good thing. It just has a very lenient enrage timer and a good few mechanics that you can eat without dying. Stick with it, you aren't the only one struggling but you'll get there fine.

I remember the E12 is also a memory game.

I am not so good with memory, so sometimes i just fail to remember.
But I am pretty certain every person have a trick to remember mechanics better.

If not, I believe a discord chatroom for the pros to sound out mechanics for the slower party members are also good too.

End game is supposed to be challenging, that's the entire point of it. That said, endsinger ex is only confusing at first. The mechanics can be simplified quite easily once you get its quirks down. You only have to remember certain aspects, not the entire mechanic itself. The rings on the players for example where you have to remember if you're spread or stack, 2 of the 3 mechanics are spread so really you only need to remember 1 number and that number is when you were in the middle stack. You can basically ignore the other numbers at that point.

EX content and up is all about learning through repetition. You're not expected to remember everything the first few times through the fight, not while you're learning, and not even after you get your first clear. Some fights are more intense than others, but don't expect to "memorize" the whole dance of an extreme or savage fight until you've got 10+ clears under your belt. Yah, some people be like "I had it down pat first clear no problem game2ez", and for them maybe it really was. For 99% of the player base though, we are just like you and WILL struggle to remember our steps throughout a fight we aren't comfortable with yet.

Since you have that problem, this is the most simple solution I know:
- Follow the leader for planets and heads.
- Keep the only position marker relevant for you in your head.
- As said above, when the 3 attacks that will be rewinded come you ONLY need to remember when you stood in the middle since you will be going to your designated position for any other outcome.

I often narrate the fight to myself when I'm learning, it reinforces the process.

In my opinion, the hardest part of the fight by far is double fatalism, which is hard to execute if you get blue planets first.

I had a lot of trouble with this fight as well. While not diagnosed with anything that could make it more difficult for me, I have two habits that are terrible for learning this particular fight: pixel dodging and keeping an eye on the big picture.
Pixel dodging is something that BLM taught me and I often do it even when on other classes. I got an insane amounts of galaxy-sized red planets into my face because I miscalculated the size of the aoe. The same end again and again or something. I'm not used to "just run as far as you can, run for your life!" dodging. Aiming the knockback on the other hand was rarely an issue for me. It was always red that got me.
Keeping an eye on everything at once is just a habit in video games, mainly from playing healer in many games that required me to do just that. It still stuck. It means that if there's a complete clusterfuck of telegraphs and markers I'll have a hard time tunneling on that one tell that is actually important to know where to go. Heads gave me the most trouble because of this. I understood the mechanic, that wasn't the issue. I made a mental rule for myself, I know which part of the telegraphs is the important part, I narrated it to myself while playing it.
But in practice I just had a literal brainlag because I had to mentally (and sometimes audibly) remind myself to focus and switch from that broad picture view to a tunnelvision on one important tell view. So even if I did recognize the safe zone, it was often really late, by then the majority already moved and I sort of automatically cancelled the mental process of spotting the safe zone. Which was terrible for learning and getting the necessary practice in spotting it in. Even worse if I had call outs.

Some people will say the fight is easy and I believe that it is for them. I found some other mechanics easy that people keep calling roadblocks and difficult.
While there is a tendency, there is never an absolute difficulty that goes for everyone. The fight has a very lenient dps check so I think the devs expected people to die to some trickier mechanics even after having cleared a few times. If you can do something to help, like pinning notes to your monitor, narrating the fight to yourself, hop in with a friend and use vc etc. don't be afraid to use them. Everyone has things they struggle with. For me it's telegraph/ marker clusterfucks. Nothing to do but keep practicing.

The problem you're running into isn't exactly what you might be thinking it is. You actually can learn the fight just as well as other people but it takes some tricks to get there. The first is to understand it's okay to make mistakes. The second is to block out the time you want to spend doing the activity so there's nothing else that is pressing. FYI this is not to eliminate distractions, but to help make sure that there's nothing else that is eating away at you inside.

"Oh, I got to go clean the kitchen, I'm behind schedule on it..." "I didn't finish that task I had yesterday, I got to try harder tomorrow", etc, are examples of thoughts that can eat away at you without realizing it, because it can turn into a self blame game where you punish yourself. If you forget to clean the kitchen, just do it tomorrow. You don't need to try harder to complete the task you didn't finish during the work day because the only one who is saying that is yourself, not your boss at work.

Kind of hoping that helps a bit.

Honestly I think we need something like a training mode for people on savage at the very least. The problem is I'm not entirely sure how they manage to do that. A lot of games that do challenge mode content simply increase the frequency of attacks done in a normal version of the fight, but savage in FFXIV has the attack patterns being completely different and often hidden. Ideally the training mode should be the normal mode of the fight since otherwise the dev team would have to implement a trust system just to have a learning mode in savage, or make something like a normal mode, hard mode, and savage mode of every single fight. I'd probably be down for story mode, hard mode, and savage mode since it would let them keep the normal mode mechanic design untouched. It doesn't fix the accessibility issue when people are through the hard mode and just go strait for the savage mode, nor does it address the problem of savage mode stragglers that get stranded late in the season or come back from a break.

Like it is 100% true that using pure gear level is not sufficient as a catchup mechanic for end game. The trust system does have potential to help solve at least a few problems in this regard, but savage mode... I'd almost say they should make the gear pure item level boosts and let people dye their normal mode gear. Yeah you get more people into doing savage so they can glam, but that crowd is not made up of people that are doing this for challenge running, which is the whole point of this kind of content.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Endsinger is a perfect exampe of this where I need to remember what order things happened in and how I dealt with them earlier. It's not challenging at this point, it feels like it's punishing people for having the incapacity to memorize everything every single battle.

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I myself have severe ADHD and my short term memory is pretty garbage, so I understand how you feel a bit, but fortunately, that's not an issue once you've figured out the tricks to the mechanics.
For the one with the five heads, and the one in the center is rotating, you don't need to memorize anything. The rings will indicate how far back it rewinds (1 rewinds to the very last mechanic, 3 to the very first), and the middle head always be rotating counterclockwise for this. The heads on the side are even easier: Odd number of rings will be the same AoE it just used (so donut or full circle), and 2 will be the other AoE. At the very end of the mechanic, only one quadrant will be safe, so just figure out which way the head will be facing, and determine which of the two heads left are safe. The last head you were at and the one diagonal from it will be safe if there's an odd number of rings, and the other two will be safe if there's 2.

And I believe others have mentioned this, but for the one with the AoEs, the only thing you need to memorize is which of the mechanics you were in the middle for. And same thing here: Rings indicate how far back it rewinds. So, if you were middle the first time you'll only be in if you have 3 rings. 2nd is 2 rings, and 3rd is 1 ring. Otherwise, you will be at your designated clock position.

Sorry if this is too wordy, but I hope it helps explain these two mechanics.

I have ADHD and, while it is difficult, I am able to remember things from like 30 or so seconds ago to perform mechanics. It gets much easier the more times you do each particular fight, because you become more familiar with your rotation, everything going around you, etc.
There aren't any mechanics I can think of off the top of my head that require you to remember something for more than like 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

There aren't any mechanics I can think of off the top of my head that require you to remember something for more than like 30 seconds.

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E12, but that's about it, afaik. And even that isn't too much longer.

One of the best ways of remembering mechanics is being on comms. Whether it's Discord or something else. Being able to speak to your group (and they speaking to you) can make all the difference as they tell you mechanics and buff windows etc. A simple "I forget what happens next" on comms and you quickly get back on track.

If you're doing stuff with randoms, then try finding an FC or static that is willing to help newer players (even if you're not new) as they will be willing to guide you.

Hi, I'm an ultimate raider with short-term memory issues. I'm decent at memorizing fight timelines, but very bad with remembering what just happened in a pull. Sometimes it's so bad that I'll forget mechanics I verbally called out to my party only 5 seconds earlier.

When it comes to mechanics that require me to memorize stuff like that, I've had to come up with a few coping strategies:
1. Running with other people in comms who can remind me of what just happened if I ask.
2. Physically writing notes on a notepad. (I did this one a lot for bloodrakes in p4s, as well as Finale)
3. Using macros assigned to hotkeys to leave a record of what happened in the chatbox.
4. Repeating it aloud to myself while waiting for the mechanic to resolve.

5. Finding alternative tricks to solve mechanics without memorizing. Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread with 5head from EndsingerEX.

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Originally Posted by namtap032892

I myself have severe ADHD and my short term memory is pretty garbage, so I understand how you feel a bit, but fortunately, that's not an issue once you've figured out the tricks to the mechanics.
For the one with the five heads, and the one in the center is rotating, you don't need to memorize anything. The rings will indicate how far back it rewinds (1 rewinds to the very last mechanic, 3 to the very first), and the middle head always be rotating counterclockwise for this. The heads on the side are even easier: Odd number of rings will be the same AoE it just used (so donut or full circle), and 2 will be the other AoE. At the very end of the mechanic, only one quadrant will be safe, so just figure out which way the head will be facing, and determine which of the two heads left are safe. The last head you were at and the one diagonal from it will be safe if there's an odd number of rings, and the other two will be safe if there's 2.

And I believe others have mentioned this, but for the one with the AoEs, the only thing you need to memorize is which of the mechanics you were in the middle for. And same thing here: Rings indicate how far back it rewinds. So, if you were middle the first time you'll only be in if you have 3 rings. 2nd is 2 rings, and 3rd is 1 ring. Otherwise, you will be at your designated clock position.

Sorry if this is too wordy, but I hope it helps explain these two mechanics.

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It's not just Endsinger. I've been looking at mechanics for P3S over and over and over and even with MTSQ's breathless mechanics it's over 16 mins of her talking, for MTSQ that's a hell of a lot of mechanics being explained. I'm getting regular headaches trying to memorize it and I just can't, it's far too much! I have yet to get past the first Fledgling Flight and from what I can see it's a major cluster of one thing after the next with different stuff happening each and every time it appears, player specific mechanics, and no room for error. No halfway point either which means if the party wipes it's right back to the start again.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

It's not just Endsinger. I've been looking at mechanics for P3S over and over and over and even with MTSQ's breathless mechanics it's over 16 mins of her talking, for MTSQ that's a hell of a lot of mechanics being explained. I'm getting regular headaches trying to memorize it and I just can't, it's far too much! I have yet to get past the first Fledgling Flight and from what I can see it's a major cluster of one thing after the next with different stuff happening each and every time it appears, player specific mechanics, and no room for error. No halfway point either which means if the party wipes it's right back to the start again.

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I used to be like you. I would get headaches from watching those guides. I suggest that you watch other raid guides such as those made by JoonBob since he condenses information down considerably and provides both visual graphics and gameplay. The issue could also stem from playing a busy class, or from not having mastered your class. If you are not completely comfortable on your class, you can end up staring at your hotbar and losing focus. Practice your class as much as you can in order to pay attention to mechanics more efficiently.

Once you master your class you can apply the following:

Repeat the name of the current mechanic in your mind during prog so that you stay focused on what's currently happening. Alternatively, you can think about what this mechanic requires of you. For example: During Flame of Asphodelos in P3S, think about your positioning. Which way should you dodge? Where should you stand for spread/stack? Where should you stand for baits? There sorts of questions will keep you engaged in what's happening and will keep your mind from trailing off.

If you can help if, keep short notes that describe what you should be doing during a particular phase.

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Originally Posted by Tasogar

I used to be like you. I would get headaches from watching those guides. I suggest that you watch other raid guides such as those made by JoonBob since he condenses information down considerably and provides both visual graphics and gameplay. The issue could also stem from playing a busy class, or from not having mastered your class. If you are not completely comfortable on your class, you can end up staring at your hotbar and losing focus. Practice your class as much as you can in order to pay attention to mechanics more efficiently.

Once you master your class you can apply the following:

Repeat the name of the current mechanic in your mind during prog so that you stay focused on what's currently happening. Alternatively, you can think about what this mechanic requires of you. For example: During Flame of Asphodelos in P3S, think about your positioning. Which way should you dodge? Where should you stand for spread/stack? Where should you stand for baits? There sorts of questions will keep you engaged in what's happening and will keep your mind from trailing off.

If you can help if, keep short notes that describe what you should be doing during a particular phase.

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Oh I know my class alright, I've played it for 5 years straight. It's just too much information overload from a fight that has over 20 different mechanics to memorize and I'm being burned out and feeling helpless with each failure to adjust. My brain feels completely frazzled.