best and worst jobs in the new pvp mode?

what do you think guys?

samurai and nina are really good arent they?

For love of god, do not play Black Mage, your entire group will need to help you or your fragile butt will die instantly. Seriously, you have the longest buildup, for no reward. Absolutely tragic.

Everytime I have a Paladin on my team I want to drop the group. Just a wasted slot.

They gave mch and brd cast skills that slow you down. They feel awful.

I tried all the jobs in new mode, except for tanks and i can easily say that RDM and DRG at the right hands can be devestating, they feel really powerful and smooth. WHM is of course broken as healer. Not quite %100 sure about those though

For the worst, i think this is an hands down undebatable that Black Mage and Sage are HURRENDOUS in pretty much every situation. BLM is High risk, high reward. cast something get targeted interrupt your cast to heal urself and repeat. play with only 2 instant button combos. Very bad. Sage is my main on savages and, what were they thinking while not giving it a heal or shield ability? Eurekan dosis shield is funny as hell like %5 on 15 sec cooldown :D and the kardia heal is non existent. It does massive damage CLOSE RANGE, so you have to risk ur life to do something that is not ur job but weirdly what you do best. its terrible, probably unplayable

yeah drg is insane to play i love it! what a blast

If I had to pick one in each role for the best jobs:

Tank - WAR (Solid tank and DPS, but most importantly AoE stun every 15 sec)
Healer - WHM (Most heals, AoE stun LB)
Melee - SAM (...)
Ranged - MCH (...)
Caster - RDM (Healing, shielding, or tons of dmg with silence)

I needn't say more on the ...s lmao.

MNK seems bad for similar reasons to BLM in that it has significant ramp-up for not much payoff.

Granted, you can dump 30K+ AoE damage in the span of two GCDs using Phantom Rush + Enlightenment after boosting both with Rising Phoenix, but high single target burst is generally more practical, and both NIN and SAM can dump absurdly high amounts of it with very little set-up.

Its actual LB is also just...bad and I'm not sure how it got past testing with the sheer craziness of the other melee LBs; NIN and SAM having conditional instakills and RPR being insanely disruptive with its AoE fear.

Best, It's between WAR, WHM, or SAM
Worst, it's easily DNC. Without a shadow of a doubt it's dancer.

Either I'm really bad at this game mode and have no idea what I'm doing (though I did get to Plat), or GNB is the weakest tank.

In some games you literally have ZERO sustain or mitigation as GNB.

You literally cannot tank as a tank job in some games as GNB.

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Originally Posted by Rael_Norende

Either I'm really bad at this game mode and have no idea what I'm doing (though I did get to Plat), or GNB is the weakest tank.

In some games you literally have ZERO sustain or mitigation as GNB.

You literally cannot tank as a tank job in some games as GNB.

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Gunbreaker is the worst tank, and it's unfortunately not close. I'd consider Gunbreaker bottom 3. Legitimately, congratulations on getting to plat like that.

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Originally Posted by Rael_Norende

Either I'm really bad at this game mode and have no idea what I'm doing (though I did get to Plat), or GNB is the weakest tank.

In some games you literally have ZERO sustain or mitigation as GNB.

You literally cannot tank as a tank job in some games as GNB.

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Nah GNB is by far the weakest unfortunately. I used to struggle in feast too since I hated Aurora as def for teammates but they made up for it with the damage and D&J debuff back then for coordinated kills. And at least they had the generic defense kit back then.

Idk why they gave DRG Elusive Jump for a damage ability.

I'm struggling to see what DRK is meant to do other than plunge in, use salted earth then run away.

The HP Drain to Damage gain mechanic is pretty lopsided in that you barely do damage, yet hack off your life to do it anyway. The class has no ranged options, his only stun move is pretty weak imo
Especially when I found out WAR has 3 ranged options and a very strong stun every 15 seconds that also closes distances.

Its sad cause I enjoyed DRK in pvp before this, but now the class feels really clunky in a way where it doesn't even really have a endgoal with its kit. You're not going to be assasinating people with plunge or going on plunge combos like before as your health cannot handle it.
I also don't think you regen enough health for it to matter on Eventide, I ususally find myself at 1hp permanently getting stunned by every single thing under the sun until I die. The only thing I think DRK excels at is stalling.

Personally, I feel like BRD is the overall weakest in uncoordinated play. Same goes for PLD. Not straight up bad but they have to work a lot more to pull more.
If I were to nominate the worst pvp job, then it's absolutely GNB. It just plays like a beefy melee DPS. If it had some CC like Heavy, it'd be so much better.

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

Gunbreaker is the worst tank, and it's unfortunately not close. I'd consider Gunbreaker bottom 3. Legitimately, congratulations on getting to plat like that.

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Actually I got to plat while learning how to play SAM. Even my SAM when I didn't know how to play the class did a better job than my GNB did. My GNB was hardstuck in gold 4 and I got to plat 3 with SAM in one gaming session.

Absolutely agree, it's probably the worse so far. Nothing makes sense for this job at all for me. Allow me to expound on this;

- Your damage is abysmal for such a long cast since you are stationary. Your combo is very inconsistent; The 1-2-3 combo, fire, fire 4 and flare and blizzard, blizzard4, freeze.. the final attack is an AoE. Potency wise it's about; 3,000, 6,000, 6,000 in that order compare to SMN's crimson cyclone which is 8,000 in potency and instantly. RDM can cast Verstone for 5,000 potency under 1.92s. While BLM can cast Fire 4 for 2.4s with a potency of 6,000. That makes absolutely no sense on why that is. Yet you have to cast Burst.... which is 12,000 and give's a shield of the same amount.
- You are dead if SAM, NIN, RDM, SMN, ever catch you or sneak up on you. (RDM has a silence, binding effect all in one,- if you think "Guard" is going work against Verflare or Verholy... it's not at all I've tried going against RDM's and they just beat me down. SMN has a gap closer, Ifirit. A stun, Titan, an Aoe, Garuda, and worse their Bahamut LB will shut you down if you have yours up in the area)
- Black mage has no utility to utilize in PVP; The freeze lasts only 3 seconds ( if you apply to freeze umbral to 3 stacks), Burn solely depends on the stack and the burn itself is 3000 potency. Again compared to the other casters, RDM and SMN, it's abysmal in performance. You would just do better to just play RDM and SMN for what they can offer.
- You have the worst LB and allow me to tell you why; first off you glow purple- you give every indication to the enemy you have your LB. You can easily be put down by others; MCH's marksman's spite would put you down before it even happens, NIN or SAM can stop you before you even build up stacks of 3 of whatever element. WAR can just stun you and combo you to death. Even an MNK can just stop you dead in your tracks. By most of all your worse enemy and LB block is by far RDM and SMN from just sheer strenght. It seems like the LB does nothing but put a bull's eye onto the BLM to stop them more than making you cool.

- I think superflare is "okay" it's cool but it does not work on elevated heights which I've tried in frontlines it doesn't even bother registering anything if they're on a hill or on some plateau.

To be tanky you need to junction a tank and then use gnashing fang combo or nebula. Although sometimes it feels like the shield do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Akantorz

For love of god, do not play Black Mage, your entire group will need to help you or your fragile butt will die instantly. Seriously, you have the longest buildup, for no reward. Absolutely tragic.

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it's worse on WHM - you'd think a WHM - being a healer focused class, could you know.. heal... but no.. the healing is about 10% of HP (12k) takes 1.43 seconds to cast, and has charges (max 2) that recover every 15 seconds... so basically you can heal "maybe" once before people notice you and target you.

Your attack is Glare.... and it's not even super charged. You have a "dash into the enemy and strike" ability - but it isn't strong , it's main purpose is to catch up and dish a tiny damage while triggering Cure3 instant cast.

Now your stuck with either a 10% damage mitigation shield, running away, or full Guard mode to survive.
Your only other attack is Afflatus Misery - on a 15 second recast timer. It's damage is also unimpressive.

And talk about unimpressive damage - the LB is 18K damage. That's all really. sure it buffs your ability to heal, and stuns for 2 seconds (which isn't enough time to cast anything since you will have to close distance gaps, or enough time to run away out of their range)

Then people say "oh but you get Miracle of Nature" yea- 2 second stopping players from using skills, again not enough time for you to survive or do anything, and doesn't really help because it doesn't stop abilities already in progress. (also, has no effect on anyone who has Guard on, so not even a counter for that)

If your a tank, you can IGNORE WHM completely. The damage they do is easily out healed by PVP Skill Recuperate - which I might add is MORE POWERFUL than the WHM heal as well.

So, a healer class, has no real attacks, has no real buffs (just a 10% damage reduction for 10s, 20s recast timer) Everything is on 15 second cooldown or longer, besides Glare, which does at most 4k damage every 2 seconds or so - IF your even in range, as most aren't.

Getting kills is nearly impossible as WHM. The LB had the potential to be the 'solving' of that - allowing mediocre single target control/counters, minor damage from any attack, and terrible healing to combine with a LB 'big laser' to then mow down enemies, but no.. it is too weak to finish off anyone who doesn't have just a 20% life or less - even if it's a solo target.

Meanwhile just about every other LB can 1 shot the WHM.

There also is no way to prevent snare, stunlock and the rest of the disasterous afflictions that every other class has at their disposal, not even self target (besides the PVP one everyone gets)

To be honest, unless Recuperate gets removed or nerfed, or some sorta "cannot use if you have been in combat recently" type of thing added, there is little reason to play WHM, as the Recuperate healing ability literally everyone has access to is stronger, more readily available, and doesn't require a cast time to get health as you need it.

SS Tier Jobs: Ninja, Samurai
S Tier Jobs: Warrior, Dragoon, White Mage
A Tier Jobs: Astrologian, Red Mage, Machinist, Dark Knight, Summoner
B Tier Jobs: Sage, Reaper, Bard, Scholar
C Tier Jobs: Monk, Dancer, Gunbreaker
D Tier Jobs: Paladin, Black Mage

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

Best, It's between WAR, WHM, or SAM
Worst, it's easily DNC. Without a shadow of a doubt it's dancer.

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Absolutely disagree. WHM is weak as hell. Their self survive is high only because the PVP skill Recuperate is more powerful, and instant, than their own heal spells. They don't do good damage, they don't do good crowd control (single target is not crowd control, it's a single target deterrant) and they can't do the one thing they should be best at - HEAL THE GROUP.

Any tank can sit and soak every WHM attack, if only the WHM attacks, the tank will be fine, even if the WHM LB's. (because it's weak and stun is only 2s, and easily negated by many tank's 'invuln' stages)
Any DPS can easily kill a WHM.

The only thing WHM have a real chance at are other healer classes, and being in a WHM vs WHM fight I can tell you we blasted each other with LBs and hit every single combo we could manage in 3 minutes before someone else came along and killed us both.

Fights should not be this boring/long. Hit should feel significant, especially with longer cast times than "instant' use skills like every DPS and Tank has.

Why all the hate for Paladin? lol. I mean, it doesn't do what Warrior does, but I have around 200 Ranked games as Paladin. It has damn near infinite healing almost without using Recoup with its kit, and it's LB is insanely useful and is capable of 1-2-3 popping people behind walls and running away while you're in Phalanx. All you do is just pop Guardian on a team mate then Phalanx and you make 2 people completely impervious to jank crap like Sam LBs.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

SS Tier Jobs: Ninja, Samurai
S Tier Jobs: Warrior, Dragoon, White Mage
A Tier Jobs: Astrologian, Red Mage, Machinist, Dark Knight, Summoner
B Tier Jobs: Sage, Reaper, Bard, Scholar
C Tier Jobs: Monk, Dancer, Gunbreaker
D Tier Jobs: Paladin, Black Mage

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Would you really rank GNB over PLD?

If they make it so Intervene stuns, Paladin is gonna be pretty decent.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Absolutely disagree. WHM is weak as hell. Their self survive is high only because the PVP skill Recuperate is more powerful, and instant, than their own heal spells. They don't do good damage, they don't do good crowd control (single target is not crowd control, it's a single target deterrant) and they can't do the one thing they should be best at - HEAL THE GROUP.

Any tank can sit and soak every WHM attack, if only the WHM attacks, the tank will be fine, even if the WHM LB's. (because it's weak and stun is only 2s, and easily negated by many tank's 'invuln' stages)
Any DPS can easily kill a WHM.

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I tend to fall into this belief about WHM right now. The thing about WHM is that it can and will snowball the other team if it's left alone/not focused as soon as possible. You put pressure on WHM and it becomes a struggle because their main "heal" has a cast time and are required to use their gap-closer ability/nuke to get an instant heal. Honestly, AST feels way better in the survivability department than WHM. It's charged heal is instant; being able to be used on the move, and while it's not as strong as WHM's, it gives regen and should you use a doublecast charge on it- an extra heal with a shield. People underestimate AST; it's entirely mobile, has potentially 2 big AoE nukes that can be used back-to-back, alongside Macrocosmos (with the benefit of more potential healing) in addition to 3 AoE buffs that all have a tangible benefit (outside of Ewer if your team is already maxed on MP). It's LB puts a damage buff on your whole immediate team and damage debuff of nearby enemies and having a Balance card active hurts even more.

I haven't played much of SGE (which feels very composition and team dependent; likely more effective with coordinated/alert teammates), or any of SCH, but WHM and AST seem to be the biggest contenders for "best" healer. A free-casting WHM that's allowed breathing room and allowed to observe the fight on their own terms will wreck the enemy teams, and their LB is a potentially huge gamechanger if they manage to tag multiple enemies. Meanwhile, AST can still function largely the same even if under fire (and being a moving target), and they are constantly providing their team with either a damage buff or replenishing their team's MP for self-heals or Limit gauges. Their LB doesn't immediately change the game when used, but can turn-around (or stack their team even more during) skirmishes. ASTs instant offensive abilities can also effectively make a huge AoE burst.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I tend to fall into this belief about WHM right now. The thing about WHM is that it can and will snowball the other team if it's left alone/not focused as soon as possible. You put pressure on WHM and it becomes a struggle because their main "heal" has a cast time and are required to use their gap-closer ability/nuke to get an instant heal. Honestly, AST feels way better in the survivability department than WHM. It's charged heal is instant; being able to be used on the move, and while it's not as strong as WHM's, it gives regen and should you use a doublecast charge on it- an extra heal with a shield. People underestimate AST; it's entirely mobile, has potentially 2 big AoE nukes that can be used back-to-back, alongside Macrocosmos (with the benefit of more potential healing) in addition to 3 AoE buffs that all have a tangible benefit (outside of Ewer if your team is already maxed on MP). It's LB puts a damage buff on your whole immediate team and damage debuff of nearby enemies and having a Balance card active hurts even more.

I haven't played much of SGE (which feels very composition and team dependent; likely more effective with coordinated/alert teammates), or any of SCH, but WHM and AST seem to be the biggest contenders for "best" healer. A free-casting WHM that's allowed breathing room and allowed to observe the fight on their own terms will wreck the enemy teams, and their LB is a potentially huge gamechanger if they manage to tag multiple enemies. Meanwhile, AST can still function largely the same even if under fire (and being a moving target), and they are constantly providing their team with either a damage buff or replenishing their team's MP for self-heals or Limit gauges. Their LB doesn't immediately change the game when used, but can turn-around (or stack their team even more during) skirmishes. ASTs instant offensive abilities can also effectively make a huge AoE burst.

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Yea it makes literally no sense to make the 'close the gap' move required to activate Cure3 - which isn't even powerful enough to soak a full hit from any other class. the healing is weak, the damage is weak, the stuns are too short and too far apart (everyone else seems to easily stun lock) so WHM can't even get away (which would be in char with heal and run, vs heal and fight)

I just.. can't feel it's balanced at all.. like it's close, but its stun from LB needs to be like 6sec, or it's heal needs to also remove debuffs and/or instant cast (you can keep the charge system, that is fine)

or a complete nerf of the recuperate ability.. so it's not out performing a healers main job...

Id rather the Paladin "move" and WHM move swap - so the WHM moves to ALLY and then can proc/use Cure3 on them/around them, vs an enemy that "might" be near ally to get that proc...

If I had to say anything, the best comp is this: WAR, SAM, MCH, NIN, AST.

DRK feels bad to use in a good amount of scenarios because even if you're undead and get your health back, guess what? You're up a creek because you don't have as much CC outside of a draw-in and a stun.
PLD needs a fix to Intervention.
GNB can be good in the right hands, but it's a lot of work for one job - and determining who to draw from in the right moments is adding a heavier layer of complexity than there needs to be.

SGE is garbage. 0/10 No chance of survival.
WHM is great but has issues with being focused(because Healer).
SCH is ACTUALLY really good and up there with AST with its kit; movement speed and damage reduction is nice and having potential AoE on enemies or self is good too. Lots of options.

MNK is Garbage. Please fix.
DRG is up there. Just not broken as NIN and SAM are.

BRD is okayish, but MCH has more diversity in its gameplan than BRD does, despite BRD just having a Silence and a Melee range bind with great risk.
DNC needs to not rely on En Avant as a crutch. Gets you killed more often than not. Underwhelming.

BLM needs instant or faster casts. Damage underwhelming and has a Melee Burst for 12,000. Why?
RDM has built-in abilities and is dual purpose. Doesn't match what these five can do though.
SMN needs an LB rework. Too much of a crutch on LB and lacks damage burst for a DPS(plus you WASTE LB if you die).

I've seen a gold Black Mage out-DPS my Dragoon ass in the top 2 with the rest significantly behind (in the volcano map with all the cover from ranged damage, no less), so it does seem doable if high skill ceiling. And probably falls apart if the rest of the team is crumbling.

Best: Warrior
Absolutely broken job, 15s limit break on demands, not having a warrior while the enemy has one dramatically increases your chance of losing by at least 90%
Worst: Reaper, Dancer, Gunbreaker
If you play those trash jobs in ranked you are actually griefing and deserve to be blacklisted.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Best: Warrior
Absolutely broken job, 15s limit break on demands, not having a warrior while the enemy has one dramatically increases your chance of losing by at least 90%
Worst: Reaper, Dancer, Gunbreaker
If you play those trash jobs in ranked you are actually griefing and deserve to be blacklisted.

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You really think Reaper is considered "worst"? Disagree. Reaper is by far, superior. Not on the same level as SAM but good as DRG and NIN.

Uh didn't think Monk would be considered bad but then again I have not touched other melee jobs, being able to successfully stunlock with six sided stars followed with powered up Meteorite is satisfying.
Can't say much on Earth's Reply, the idea is very nice but the heal might not be as strong as I thought.

I am having fun with Monk either way, I guess it requires more work compared to others?

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Originally Posted by Rael_Norende

Either I'm really bad at this game mode and have no idea what I'm doing (though I did get to Plat), or GNB is the weakest tank.

In some games you literally have ZERO sustain or mitigation as GNB.

You literally cannot tank as a tank job in some games as GNB.

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Yes you can't tank if you choose that you don't want to tank. Junction dictates your role very very strictly.

edit: Realised you said 'some' games. My bad.

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Originally Posted by KouYanagi

Yes you can't tank if you choose that you don't want to tank. Junction dictates your role very very strictly.

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What do you do if the enemy team is 4dps 1healer.

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

What do you do if the enemy team is 4dps 1healer.

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INT!

Jokes aside, GNB imo can't tank at all even if you manage to junction a Tank. Getting it may make you slightly tankier but the class is more akin to a glorified DPS that likes to jump on the backline. Think of it like a Reaper but with a faster Ult

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Uh didn't think Monk would be considered bad but then again I have not touched other melee jobs, being able to successfully stunlock with six sided stars followed with powered up Meteorite is satisfying.
Can't say much on Earth's Reply, the idea is very nice but the heal might not be as strong as I thought.

I am having fun with Monk either way, I guess it requires more work compared to others?

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Needs their 7 part combo shortened deffo, because even with haste, I couldn't feel the difference

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Originally Posted by KouYanagi

Needs their 7 part combo shortened deffo, because even with haste, I couldn't feel the difference

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Oh definitely that, Phantom Rush could honestly be an own button at this point because i rarely get that

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Oh definitely that, Phantom Rush could honestly be an own button at this point because i rarely get that

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Hmmm I was thinking if Phantom rush was a separate button and the basic 6 part GCDs buff one another. So the first 3 GCDs sucks but after that it starts to hurt more and more to the point that its impossible to ignore.

Also, give Earth's Reply a Purify. No reason why a SAM has it and a MNK doesn't.

Paladin is one of the weakest, even without taking into account the fact that there is a bug in the Intervention skill.

His LB Pralanx skill is very easy to parry with any control (but this control can be removed with Cleanse and gain immunity, but the condition for obtaining immunity for 5 seconds is very doubtful due to the fact that it requires the presence of a control type), and with the transformation from WHM, you can completely forget about how to help the group. In 10 seconds, at least, you need to reset three skills from the GCD of 2.5 seconds and also give a shield to an ally... even this is unrealistic to do given that you can get any control in LB. It would make more sense to give the paladin control immunity while under the ground gouging effect and fix the interference. In this variant, the paladin looks like a good class in the team that doesn't do much damage, but helps the team a lot in good management.

At the moment, as a player who has chosen PLD as his main job, I am very frustrated by his ability in PvP against the background of the possibilities of other jobs (for example, DK or imba WAR)

I'd say ast is up there. Instant cast heal with regen effect, aoe slow that can be doubled and then ended with macrocosm for a 3 hit of 8k aoe each, buffs for damage, and an LB that both reduces damage taken and buffs damage dealt, and of course macrocosm storing damage as an aoe heal.

Can confirm that Gunbreaker feels pretty horrible to play.

Even with Nebula junctioned, you barely keep your head above water a lot of the time. Not only that, but the only CC/Peel it has in it's entire kit is the AoE stun on it's ult, which feels horrible to use. You're not CC immune for the duration, so there have been several times where I've been stunned, knocked back, bound, polymorphed, or had the channel stuffed in any number of ways. I got fed up and switched to WAR, and immediately went on like a 6 game winning streak just because it's so much tankier, does so much more damage, and has so much more peel/pick potential.