Make all Tank AOE Combos Cones Please

Circle aoes bad. Cone good.

Even if this is supposed to be a funny joke, since you only ever use them in dungeons anyway and the cone's increased range is a huge advantage when pulling W2W I could legitimately get behind this change.

Not gonna lie it would be nice if you could choose between cone and circle at any time...

Think about it that'd be pretty sweet.

Couldn't you just make a cone and circle version of the AoE rotation, and let us put whichever ones on our hotbars? Game devs already dug themselves into this hole by deciding it was less work to make OP into a circle. Well, now we have a version of OP that is cone and circle. Dig yourselves OUT of this hole by doing that with all the tank AoE skills, and let us pick whether we want to use cone or aoe. I personally would prefer a 1-2 combo that alternates,

I will preemptively agree with anyone dismissing this as a ridiculous suggestion, IT IS RIDICULOUS. So was removing the cone from OP. How else are we going to fix this?

Don't feel like DRK really needs it, Flood of Shadow generally does a good job of grabbing enemies for me.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

Don't feel like DRK really needs it, Flood of Shadow generally does a good job of grabbing enemies for me.

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And what about once you have the pack together? Flood doesn't hit behind, so you are better off with the mobs infront.

A message to my fellow tanks: your job is not over after the pull. You are still tanking throughout the whole fight. Even GNB is just pretending to be a DPS

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

And what about once you have the pack together? Flood doesn't hit behind, so you are better off with the mobs infront.

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Not sure what you mean, I do Unleash while I run through them and shoot Flood backwards to pick up the rest

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Originally Posted by baklava151

Not sure what you mean, I do Unleash while I run through them and shoot Flood backwards to pick up the rest

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I do that too, no issues there, it is when you have everything and are standing there tanking for the DPS to take down, you still want everything infront of you for Flood/Shadowbringer, so a conal AoE with a bigger effective hitbox would be more beneficial.

Infact, every tank, except Gunbreaker benefits from having everything infront of them, and that is before you take into account DPS/Healer concerns. Though, I still think Blasting Zone should be a line AoE infront of the GNB, but that is a separate issue.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I do that too, no issues there, it is when you have everything and are standing there tanking for the DPS to take down, you still want everything infront of you for Flood/Shadowbringer, so a conal AoE with a bigger effective hitbox would be more beneficial.

Infact, every tank, except Gunbreaker benefits from having everything infront of them, and that is before you take into account DPS/Healer concerns. Though, I still think Blasting Zone should be a line AoE infront of the GNB, but that is a separate issue.

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Ah, I gotcha, just seems like a minor issue to me though.

If anything, I'd say cones (or lines) should be part 2 of the AOE combo, just not part 1. I'm not wholly against the idea of them, but, on the rare occasion I'd ever tank, years ago, I always missed picking up more stuff on WAR for not knowing/judging the cone accurately, or a pack being just a little too spread out.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

If anything, I'd say cones (or lines) should be part 2 of the AOE combo, just not part 1. I'm not wholly against the idea of them, but, on the rare occasion I'd ever tank, years ago, I always missed picking up more stuff on WAR for not knowing/judging the cone accurately, or a pack being just a little too spread out.

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If you had practiced more with it, I guarantee you would have ended up liking it better as the first hit in a combo. Not that it matters that much just for picking up mobs, combo or not. But doing it first let you pull a large spread out pack very comfortably on that very first GCD, if you have gap closer unlocked start with it, switch to another target and position across from them, boom, all mobs are on you now. If you're synced down below having it unlocked, this works just as well with tomahawk instead of the gap closer, AoE coming out on the 2nd GCD, still no time wasted running around to grab all the emnity
Only possible with the cone's extra 3y length from point of origin

As a DD/Healer, my job would go smoother if all the tanks had at least one step of their AoE combos as a cone AoE because then they wouldn't park in the middle of a pack with enemies spread out on four sides of them. Cones encourage a tank to run out to the side of the pack, which gathers them tighter than if the tank just stands in the middle spamming circles. If the mobs aren't gathered tightly enough, I can't hit them all. I can make certain adjustments to hit more targets but that's only manageable to a point. Spells with a 5y radius don't really hit that large an area.

Today I was forced to play Warrior with my friends on the new dungeon. I hated it please bring back cone.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

As a DD/Healer, my job would go smoother if all the tanks had at least one step of their AoE combos as a cone AoE because then they wouldn't park in the middle of a pack with enemies spread out on four sides of them. Cones encourage a tank to run out to the side of the pack, which gathers them tighter than if the tank just stands in the middle spamming circles.... Spells with a 5y radius don't really hit that large an area.

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If only there were more DPS and healers like you who noticed and APPRECIATED the work I was putting in to keep the mobs not only on me, but grouped up and facing away from you as well. I'm convinced non of this would be happening if it weren't for a vocal minority of players trying out WAR and not getting the point.

but pld always had circle, it just didnt do any damage

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Originally Posted by Kallis

If only there were more DPS and healers like you who noticed and APPRECIATED the work I was putting in to keep the mobs not only on me, but grouped up and facing away from you as well. I'm convinced non of this would be happening if it weren't for a vocal minority of players trying out WAR and not getting the point.

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I imagine most DPS with line AoEs appreciate it, even if they don't understand the cause of the superior positioning. I for sure did when I was still playing DRG.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

Don't feel like DRK really needs it, Flood of Shadow generally does a good job of grabbing enemies for me.

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No, just make Flood of Darkness/Shadow another circle instead of straight line. :^)

Honestly who wouldnt want cones?

Wouldnt GNB want their aoe combo to look more like friggin blasting zone?

Or PLD getting reverse wings with their aoe combo!

Or DRK doing wild forward swings instead of that rip-off of darkness x2!

Give us cones!

No thanks I'd quit tanking.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

No thanks I'd quit tanking.

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Thats what I did with my WAR and dungeons after the change. I tried it twice and absolutely hated it. Killed my friends a bunch of times in P3s cuz of where I stand for adds too.

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Originally Posted by castillle

Thats what I did with my WAR and dungeons after the change.

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The only reason I'm using warrior anymore is because it's what I've been gearing for my static. I used to do expert roulette for the weekly tomes but hunt trains should achieve the same result.

Can only echo the sentiment. I've only run the new dungeon twice, and the few other dungeons I've run since the change were because I agreed to tank for FC/static faster than my brain could remind me of the Overpower change.

Controversial opinion alert:

Honestly, just stop making dungeons. They are just pretty corridors at this point.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Controversial opinion alert:

Honestly, just stop making dungeons. They are just pretty corridors at this point.

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Wouldn't exactly call that controversial, with the state that dungeons are currently in you could redirect the entire developement time into something more interesting, nothing of value would be lost.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Wouldn't exactly call that controversial, with the state that dungeons are currently in you could redirect the entire developement time into something more interesting, nothing of value would be lost.

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Dang, that just reminded me of the new type of dungeon they talked about in one of the live letters... meaning the dev team has actually considered this. I was so stoked to hear about some kind of innovation and maybe a challenge while it's fresh content. Now that my AoE feels like hot garbage I just dread the mob encounters they've come up with.
If I can't solo them I may not even bother tbh. That one pull on Alzadaal is the epitome of frustration, if that's the tone they're setting, count me out

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Wouldn't exactly call that controversial, with the state that dungeons are currently in you could redirect the entire developement time into something more interesting, nothing of value would be lost.

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Given how all tanks are now practically the same when it comes to dungeons they've just become even more boring... :(

ngl, I'd love to see w2w pulls not being 2 groups and done and would love to see like 3-4 groups again. I did like the newest dungeon for attempting to do something similar but alas new Overpower did not feel the same.

For the topic, I just want WAR's Overpower to be a cone because imo it doesn't make sense for Demon Slice and Total Eclipse to be cones as much as I personally adore the cone's range, whereas Overpower makes the most sense to remain as a cone.

I get that this is a half troll half 'missing flavor' thread, but, really. Why would anyone think the Cone AoEs in this game are good? Circle AoEs don't require a target, can be spammed to hit mobs without interrupting your movement while doing the pull, and even if you didn't have those prior factors involved, they snapshot behind you while you're moving and still hit in front of you as you're picking mobs up, so they wind up hitting more mobs than a cone would with less total attacks.

Line AoEs I get. Those actually cover more area than Cones or Circles and do fire properly when they have the appropriate range (though it's still finicky because of XIV demanding a target for them too) while retaining the upside of being able to stand to the side of the fire once you're actually IN the pull. But Cones? Absolutely not. XIV's systems make them have all the downsides and none of the good.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

If anything, I'd say cones (or lines) should be part 2 of the AOE combo, just not part 1. I'm not wholly against the idea of them, but, on the rare occasion I'd ever tank, years ago, I always missed picking up more stuff on WAR for not knowing/judging the cone accurately, or a pack being just a little too spread out.

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Why would you want the skill with greater range so long as mobs are in front of you to come after the engage (in which all mobs are necessarily in front of you)? Keep the better engage tool first, and the lower-range but faintly more lenient tool second.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Why would anyone think the Cone AoEs in this game are good? Circle AoEs don't require a target, can be spammed to hit mobs without interrupting your movement while doing the pull, and even if you didn't have those prior factors involved, they snapshot behind you while you're moving and still hit in front of you as you're picking mobs up, so they wind up hitting more mobs than a cone would with less total attacks.

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Let's not pretend appropriate targeting is hard or gets in the way of movement. The two also "snapshot" to the very same degree. And both need only ANY part of the target's hitring to be within that area of attack, meaning it's a whole lot harder for conals to miss enemies to your immediate sides than it might first appear (at least, if one never bothered to check for floating damage text).

As such, there's only one real difference between conal AoEs and radial AoEs: Radial AoEs sacrifice 3 yalms range and ~48 square yalms (at a 150-degree cone) area in FRONT of you to be able to also hit BEHIND you.

That can only be positive if you have enemies behind you... which is entirely within your ability to prevent. You're spending all that on the assumption you'd otherwise fail an exceedingly easy task.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

As such, there's only one real difference between conal AoEs and radial AoEs: Radial AoEs sacrifice 3 yalms range and ~48 square yalms (at a 150-degree cone) area in FRONT of you to be able to also hit BEHIND you.

That can only be positive if you have enemies behind you... which is entirely within your ability to prevent. You're spending all that on the assumption you'd otherwise fail an exceedingly easy task.

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It's also entirely within your ability to ensure, by positioning yourself in the centre of the pack. It's not difficult.
Enemies typically cluster in a circle, not a triangle.
I have never, not once, had an issue hitting every mob in a pull with a radial AoE, other than the obvious ranged enemies who you need to kite around a corner, but that's true for cones as well. This argument assumes that PLD, DRK and GNB have all been failing to tank for the entire time they've been in the game.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It's also entirely within your ability to ensure, by positioning yourself in the centre of the pack. It's not difficult.
Enemies typically cluster in a circle, not a triangle.
I have never, not once, had an issue hitting every mob in a pull with a radial AoE, other than the obvious ranged enemies who you need to kite around a corner, but that's true for cones as well. This argument assumes that PLD, DRK and GNB have all been failing to tank for the entire time they've been in the game.

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What part of my post remotely says that it's hard to hit something with a radial AoE?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

there's only one real difference between conal AoEs and radial AoEs: Radial AoEs sacrifice 3 yalms range and ~48 square yalms (at a 150-degree cone) area in FRONT of you to be able to also hit BEHIND you.

That can only be positive if you have enemies behind you... which is entirely within your ability to prevent. You're spending all that on the assumption you'd otherwise fail an exceedingly easy task.

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Once gathered, you're going to hit them all, with no effort beyond selecting a target not way off to a near edge, regardless of whether you use a radial, conal, or linear AoE. The difference is merely range. Conals have 60% more range. Linear AoEs have 100% more range.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It's also entirely within your ability to ensure, by positioning yourself in the centre of the pack. It's not difficult.
Enemies typically cluster in a circle, not a triangle.
I have never, not once, had an issue hitting every mob in a pull with a radial AoE, other than the obvious ranged enemies who you need to kite around a corner, but that's true for cones as well. This argument assumes that PLD, DRK and GNB have all been failing to tank for the entire time they've been in the game.

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If you're remaining in the centre of the pack not only are you standing in all the mob aoes, but also directing them towards the party. This makes it unnecessarily difficult for the healer. If you're remaining in the centre of the mobs, as they die the DPS's AoEs will start hitting less unless you reposition to cluster them together, conal aoes let you damage the whole pack while doing so rather than wasting half the AoE.

The whole reason I started to main warrior was frustration with df tanks, so while I wouldn't say that PLD, DRK and GNB have failed to tank for their duration I will say that it very much depends on the player.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

If you're remaining in the centre of the pack not only are you standing in all the mob aoes, but also directing them towards the party. This makes it unnecessarily difficult for the healer. If you're remaining in the centre of the mobs, as they die the DPS's AoEs will start hitting less unless you reposition to cluster them together, conal aoes let you damage the whole pack while doing so rather than wasting half the AoE.

The whole reason I started to main warrior was frustration with df tanks, so while I wouldn't say that PLD, DRK and GNB have failed to tank for their duration I will say that it very much depends on the player.

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It's also going to mess with DPS, forcing them into enemy attacks, or just outright make it harder for them to hit everything with their attacks (starting off as a DRG in early ShB really made me appreciate WAR tanks, I only understood why that was after I started levelling WAR...)

Not sure why they don't just increase the AOE Range by 3-Yalms all around the Tank.

Then everyone would be happy.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Not sure why they don't just increase the AOE Range by 3-Yalms all around the Tank.

Then everyone would be happy.

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You realize the radial AoEs' radius was already increased, right? (Because, back then, some people did have trouble making the melee-range radius hit everything, at least without properly centering themselves, making radials actually trickier than conals. Linear AoEs were widened in that same patch.)

And not everything needs the Earthen Star treatment (arguably including Earthen Star itself).

I couldve sworn Flash has always been 5yalms :O

Give one tank a double circle combo, one a double cone combo, one a circle>cone combo, and one a cone>circle combo. Now they all play differently and you get more cones.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Give one tank a double circle combo, one a double cone combo, one a circle>cone combo, and one a cone>circle combo. Now they all play differently and you get more cones.

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WAR cone circle, DRK circle cone, GNB cone cone, PLD circle circle? BLU is of course customisible to the nth degree.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

WAR cone circle, DRK circle cone, GNB cone cone, PLD circle circle? BLU is of course customisible to the nth degree.

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It would probably keep it nearer to what it's always been and would fit the particular animations.

We can imagine a cone emanating from Unleash, for instance, but Stalwart Soul?

Total Eclipse could certainly go the way of Red Lotus or Howling Blade (essentially, Ilsbard's conal AoE that shaves some weight of Raubahn, but formerly 1.x GLD abilities) to make it a conal, but... need it be?

I'd almost rather see some semblance of shield skills come back, with absorbed damage then being releasable via Shield Slam -- which would then most make sense as a targeted conal or semi-circular AoE (with only the primary target getting stunned, at least for full duration).