Stop band-aid fixing the glamour system and just fix it for real

Using plates in sanctuaries... 800 storage space...

These are all band-aid fixes to a broken system.

Please just fix the entire system. Just develop a glamour log.

Honestly I bet the only reason they're sticking to this is that they project that adding a glamour log will take longer than what they expect us to be patient for.

Who told you it isn't undergoing development? You think its one day work? They have priorities and a lot more stuff to heavily focus on but they said they will add a glamour log in the future.

Tbh I'm just happy for the 800 spaces. 400 was way too little for the amount of clothes you could have

Agreed... The updates that are coming are much needed, and will be nice for now, but they need to make a glamour log system or else the glamour storage situation will be unsustainable.

Yeah. They aren't even adding enough plates to have 1 per job. Just adding more slots doesn't actually fix anything, it kicks the can down the road.

That said, the way housing is, I have very little faith they'll actually fix it. Kicking the can down the road seems to just be all they want to do for systems that have scaling problems.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

Yeah. They aren't even adding enough plates to have 1 per job. Just adding more slots doesn't actually fix anything, it kicks the can down the road.

That said, the way housing is, I have very little faith they'll actually fix it. Kicking the can down the road seems to just be all they want to do for systems that have scaling problems.

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SE having any sense of reasonable foresight will never be a thing lol. That being said, I feel like any immediate big changes so soon will make this janky game even more janky

It seems, that SQEX has serious problems with the persistence layer. Unfortunately we know nothing about it. And fixing problems with the persistence layer will be very ressource consuming. That is the reason, why it never a good idea to deliver quick & dirty "solutions" here. The technical debt grows here extremely fast.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

Yeah. They aren't even adding enough plates to have 1 per job. Just adding more slots doesn't actually fix anything, it kicks the can down the road.

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15 current plates, plus the 5 new ones, equals 20 plates total. There are 20 jobs including BLU, so that's one plate each.

Crafters and gatherers are technically classes, not jobs :p

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Using plates in sanctuaries... 800 storage space...

These are all band-aid fixes to a broken system.

Please just fix the entire system. Just develop a glamour log.

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Interpretation:

"Adding more space (as requested by many players) + allowing use of plates outside of major cities (as requested by many players) is a BAD THING, because it doesn't work like World of Warcraft's Trasmogrification system."

As someone mentioned somewhat, they original glamour plate system was meant to be the glamour log, but they couldnt get past an issue (we dont know what it is) and YES the glamour plate system is a bandaid fix/solution.
So the OP is semi correct, but also doesnt know they havent found a solution to w/e the problem was with a glamour log. (since yoshida likes to twist details to put the team in better light, id assume its actually about money costs, and not so much actual technical limitations.)

I assume this is being worked on right now and probably for quite some time but it also might require new db's, new list and some code rework.

The WoW system would be preferable in which you just need to loot or equip the gear piece once and it's added to your log, making the glamour dresser basically obsolete and free up space aswell.

Potentially housing glamour dresses could come with it as a way to save your plates which are populated from the glamour log.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

As someone mentioned somewhat, they original glamour plate system was meant to be the glamour log, but they couldnt get past an issue (we dont know what it is) and YES the glamour plate system is a bandaid fix/solution.
So the OP is semi correct, but also doesnt know they havent found a solution to w/e the problem was with a glamour log. (since yoshida likes to twist details to put the team in better light, id assume its actually about money costs, and not so much actual technical limitations.)

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But is it really a money issue tho? 1 single person can pay or pay up to $20 a month because of paying for 3 -4 retainers, and with how big the player base is (with a quick google search is 35.8 million subbed with 3.4 million actively playing daily) I just don't see them having any money issues

*edit: OH and this doesn't even graze the amount of money they make off of the mogstation especially fantasias and mounts etc

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Originally Posted by RecoveryPotion

But is it really a money issue tho? 1 single person can pay or pay up to $20 a month because of paying for 3 -4 retainers, and with how big the player base is (with a quick google search is 35.8 million subbed with 3.4 million actively playing daily) I just don't see them having any money issues

*edit: OH and this doesn't even graze the amount of money they make off of the mogstation especially fantasias and mounts etc

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Probably the same with the server situation, it's not a money but a supply chain/lack of hardware issue(All this needs to be stored somewhere and you probably need to extend hardware to not reduce performance).
SE already mentioned they are ready to splurge but there is not enough offer to meet the demand.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

Honestly I bet the only reason they're sticking to this is that they project that adding a glamour log will take longer than what they expect us to be patient for.

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I believe this. Given they have memory issues on housing, this, account wide mogshop stuff, and the like- I assume they're no where near able to just give us a multi-thousand glamour log. A log which I'd love to have. Long ago they were working on an item log, and determined it wasn't feasible (unfortunate)- but a glamour log to me is like that and would be absolutely amazing.. because then you have a reason to run about and collect and 'progress' with easy tracking and immediate quality feedback. If I get something in a dungeon currently I usually just imagine losing it in my hundreds of slots, and so usually turn it into scrap instead.

Of course that said our log does have a unique ability to act as a bank in essence, where you can store and retrieve 800 slots of items.... which is definitely not nothing (though there are a lot of steps in doing so). Personally I'd still prefer a log but I still think it's wild that we basically have an 800 slot bank lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I believe this. Given they have memory issues on housing, this, account wide mogshop stuff, and the like- I assume they're no where near able to just give us a multi-thousand glamour log. A log which I'd love to have. Long ago they were working on an item log, and determined it wasn't feasible (unfortunate)- but a glamour log to me is like that and would be absolutely amazing.. because then you have a reason to run about and collect and 'progress' with easy tracking and immediate quality feedback. If I get something in a dungeon currently I usually just imagine losing it in my hundreds of slots, and so usually turn it into scrap instead.

Of course that said our log does have a unique ability to act as a bank in essence, where you can store and retrieve 800 slots of items.... which is definitely not nothing (though there are a lot of steps in doing so). Personally I'd still prefer a log but I still think it's wild that we basically have an 800 slot bank lol.

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I do have to say that what was "unfeasible" then may not always be unfeasible in the future. Regardless of whether its a cost or a technical limitation, there is the possibility they may find access to solutions they didn't have access to before.

The number of glamour plates is whatever. I think at minimum they should have one for each job, but I personally don't play more than a few jobs so for me I just get space for alternative outfits. But 20 would seem like a fair number if we didn't have DoH/DoL jobs.

The lack of a glamour log will forever be a problem in this game, though. I don't think it is fair compared to the state of the industry. There are so many difficult-to-aquire pieces of glams at this point that they effectively force players to throw away stuff hoping they will never want it again. For me, I have basically thrown out most of everything through level 70 in the hope that it wouldn't take me too long to solo content if I ever needed it again. But I shouldn't *have* to do that.

I would love an actual glamour log, for sure. I can't deny, however, that an extra 400 glamour dresser slots is a big deal. That will save me a ton of inventory space.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I do have to say that what was "unfeasible" then may not always be unfeasible in the future. Regardless of whether its a cost or a technical limitation, there is the possibility they may find access to solutions they didn't have access to before.

The number of glamour plates is whatever. I think at minimum they should have one for each job, but I personally don't play more than a few jobs so for me I just get space for alternative outfits. But 20 would seem like a fair number if we didn't have DoH/DoL jobs.

The lack of a glamour log will forever be a problem in this game, though. I don't think it is fair compared to the state of the industry. There are so many difficult-to-aquire pieces of glams at this point that they effectively force players to throw away stuff hoping they will never want it again. For me, I have basically thrown out most of everything through level 70 in the hope that it wouldn't take me too long to solo content if I ever needed it again. But I shouldn't *have* to do that.

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I would hope so too lol. I mean at the time it might have been a unique idea. To be honest I think it was from player feedback too, I remember making posts on the matter saying it would be cool if SE had what is basically a bestiary for items.. I really wanted to get lore on them if possible (a huge ask). It roughly lines up to what they said, so I think it's feasible they were initiating the project on feedback. That was a long, long time ago. Now the idea of a glamour log that holds multi-thousand slots is actually fairly common, so it's no longer so strange a request.

One issue might be how they coded the game, though of course you'd hope they are slowly improving the internals (changing how the memory works would probably be one of the more scary tasks you could do for an MMO). I remember Yoshida talking about the game was coded in a more old school fixed memory restraints way- which was part of also how they could get it on the ps3 as well. It makes sense, since you can see even apartments in the game are limited resource, something that sounds entirely wrong. Like they shouldn't under any circumstance be at least limited apartments, but there are lol. Then you think they hard coded memory in a rather inflexible (but perhaps efficient) manner, and it's like "...oh yeah, makes sense" unfortunately.

Part of the reason I hope they are going to have another MMO being worked on not "AT 10 years from now" but sometime from now to then, such that it's well and ready when it's time to phase FFXIV like they did to FFXI. It's not a statement of death to the game, as the game is going to be fine for quite some time longer- just like WoW was, but as it ages it'll get harder for multiple reasons (competition, difficultly implementing features, too much familiarity making everything seem like an 'old idea' even if it's not (you can see this as increased rate of burn out), etc. But the game easily has a few more successful years even if they didn't do well, so again it's not the death of the game in a general sense, heck look at FFXI still making them money lol.). Alternatively they may try to make it work in FFXIV, it's possible- just sounds extra scary. But then again releasing a new mmo is probably also extra scary. Everything is scary XD.

Anyway, so it's not me saying I don't want a complete glamour log- I do, just that explaining some of the history. That history doesn't mean you can't want it anymore, or whatever- I still want it lol, I just feel it's good to know where stuff came from. That and also it's funny to consider we have an 800 slot bank system, that does feel a bit O_o.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I would love an actual glamour log, for sure. I can't deny, however, that an extra 400 glamour dresser slots is a big deal. That will save me a ton of inventory space.

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The extra space is nice to be able to move some stuff off retainers/out of saddlebags. Though hopefully they are working on a glamour log to replace the current system when they can.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

The extra space is nice to be able to move some stuff off retainers/out of saddlebags. Though hopefully they are working on a glamour log to replace the current system when they can.

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Hopefully. I wouldn't expect anything like that until after the engine upgrade though, unless that is something they have planned to go along with it. Not gonna get my hopes up, but I would like for it to happen someday.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Part of the reason I hope they are going to have another MMO being worked on not "AT 10 years from now" but sometime from now to then, such that it's well and ready when it's time to phase FFXIV like they did to FFXI. It's not a statement of death to the game, as the game is going to be fine for quite some time longer- just like WoW was, but as it ages it'll get harder for multiple reasons (competition, difficultly implementing features, too much familiarity making everything seem like an 'old idea' even if it's not (you can see this as increased rate of burn out), etc. But the game easily has a few more successful years even if they didn't do well, so again it's not the death of the game in a general sense, heck look at FFXI still making them money lol.). Alternatively they may try to make it work in FFXIV, it's possible- just sounds extra scary. But then again releasing a new mmo is probably also extra scary. Everything is scary XD.

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I think it will be hard for the devs to make another successful MMO after XIV. They've used every shred of referentiality they could pull from past FF games, so they can't really achieve that a second time without players dismissing it as having been done before. And they have such a backlog of content and glamours that whatever new game they released would be *years* away from approaching a comparable scope.

We are also in an era where franchises are living or dying based on how long they can sustain building on their extended universes. None of them are really allowed to start from scratch anymore because they would be too small to compete against the existing juggernauts: Marvel, D.C., Star Wars, LotR, etc. So there is every incentive not to abandon the huge extended world XIV has crafted.

I think they are more likely to (and this would be smart of them) do something similar to how they gave XI players some extra benefits in transferring to XIV. Although in the case of the next MMO, I think they should just make it "FF XIV-2" and make it a contiguous experience with FF XIV. Keep it in Eorzea (or another shard). Let players transfer over their their characters, and maybe some glams, and just continue the experience with updated graphics, mechanics, etc. Let new players have retrofitted access to XIV to keep them interested while the new game is being fleshed out in real time.

It would be a novel approach to the MMO genre, but one I think SE might be willing to risk because it would respect the thing that has made XIV so successful: having a very large and vibrant online casual community. By preserving the community across XIV and the new game, they would have a ready playerbase for the next game while minimizing dropoff, something which many iterative video game franchises struggle with every few years.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Hopefully. I wouldn't expect anything like that until after the engine upgrade though, unless that is something they have planned to go along with it. Not gonna get my hopes up, but I would like for it to happen someday.

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Oh, I agree. Quite likely if they do get it done it will be after the majority of the engine upgrades are done and implemented, unless they end up dedicating a few people to just getting it to work.

My Retainers buried under mounds of glamour: "How long have I awaited for this moment..."

I called it months ago, he can likely just increase the slots and call it a day.

Sanctuary requirement is simple reasoning from a development perspective. Not every zone has the same resources as others. It's no different than why you can't open your gear coffer outside of one. All that coffer data isn't available in some desert zone, in order to keep server loads down it's put in those places where there is more resources.

Imagine if 300+ people were able to use the glamour plates on the Chi fate platform around the same time, let's just croak the servers when it's not necessary.

One thing that may be holding them up I suspect, is two facts about our gear that doesn't plague WoW.

1) We can dye our gear. Not only can we dye our gear, but we can dye the original and then apply the glam without reusing the dye at anytime. I imagine a glam log system would at the very least take that last aspect away considering things that go into the armoire lose their dyes. Now, I am uncertain if GW2 has a fix for this or not, or if their glam system is similar to what people want. So there is a possibility that it could work but that is definitely a hurdle.

2) Every single piece of gear can be used by a single character. The WoW system doesn't need to have that information on hand any time their Transmog stuff is queried. They can limit it based on wearable armor type and weapon type. The FF14 glamour log would need to be able to access a database with every single piece of gear in the entire game any time it is accessed. Even if it isn't immediately pulling the data for the gear that is likely a huge amount of data, and add that to the fact that our characters already contain a shit ton of data already with the fact that they have to have the information for every single job loadable at all times, plus our inventories, our BLU spell book, our mounts, our pets, triple triad cards, and various other things.

I would love a glamour log, but it may be a bit before we see one as they do have unique hurdles that other games don't. About the only game I can think of that has a work around with similar hurdles is ESO. Though they mitigate it by having the styles only accessible at crafting and outfit stations and no where else.

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Originally Posted by technole

All that coffer data isn't available in some desert zone, in order to keep server loads down it's put in those places where there is more resources.

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Sorry, but this is speculation and it makes no sense at all. Because if you open that coffer in another zone and carry the items to the desert zone, then this would increase the server load. Because now the server has to load all the items in you invertory. :) This would not relieve the server.

My speculation for this limitation is: every zone has its own specific persistence model. And some persistence models are not compatible with coffers. To fix this they must update them. But if their persistence layer is a mess then it will be very time consuming. Updating the persistence model is easy. Updating the persistence model without breaking something is not so easy anymore. :)


Cheers

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Interpretation:

"Adding more space (as requested by many players) + allowing use of plates outside of major cities (as requested by many players) is a BAD THING, because it doesn't work like World of Warcraft's Trasmogrification system."

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Glad Im not the only one that kinda read it this way lol
The Glamour system isn't "Broken" its just Flawed.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Interpretation:

"Adding more space (as requested by many players) + allowing use of plates outside of major cities (as requested by many players) is a BAD THING, because it doesn't work like World of Warcraft's Trasmogrification system."

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WoW isn't the only one with a glamour log. There's a reason the "hold item to use its appearance" got hazed out pretty quickly, and it's because of the problems SE is working with right now.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Sorry, but this is speculation and it makes no sense at all. Because if you open that coffer in another zone and carry the items to the desert zone, then this would increase the server load. Because now the server has to load all the items in you invertory. :) This would not relieve the server.

My speculation for this limitation is: every zone has its own specific persistence model. And some persistence models are not compatible with coffers. To fix this they must update them. But if their persistence layer is a mess then it will be very time consuming. Updating the persistence model is easy. Updating the persistence model without breaking something is not so easy anymore. :)


Cheers

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No, you're just looking at the end result, personal inventory is the same no matter where you go.

A weapon coffer is the best example. You only get 1 item, but it has to go through the inventory system to get one of the battle job weapons, there is no reason for persistence lists of inventory eligible for every coffer in places that don't need it. The towns have a lot more allocation, and rightfully so.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Glad Im not the only one that kinda read it this way lol
The Glamour system isn't "Broken" its just Flawed.

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Yeah. It works, but I wouldn't call it a good system by any means.

Stop hoarding. Not everything needs to be glamoured.

Let it go...

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Originally Posted by Poporito_Popoto

Stop hoarding.

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Noooo! I cannot!

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah. It works, but I wouldn't call it a good system by any means.

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.....I said it was Flawed.
Lol

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Originally Posted by RecoveryPotion

But is it really a money issue tho? 1 single person can pay or pay up to $20 a month because of paying for 3 -4 retainers, and with how big the player base is (with a quick google search is 35.8 million subbed with 3.4 million actively playing daily) I just don't see them having any money issues

*edit: OH and this doesn't even graze the amount of money they make off of the mogstation especially fantasias and mounts etc

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You're cute for believing the revenue FFXIV produces is being used 1:1 for the game.

I'd say its like 1:0.5 at best, the rest goes to new projects and of course into investors' pockets!

That's atleast what I feel like believing now ^^

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

.....I said it was Flawed.
Lol

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I know. I was agreeing with you. lol

I'd give up 400 glamour slots if it meant i could glamour any gear on any class.

Having 400 extra slots doesn't mean jack shit when most of the healer gear is ugly white priestly robes with frilly bits everywhere.

I just want to look like an adventurer or field medic proper while also being able to dye my gear, but it seems too much to ask.

I'm way more interested in the extra plates than space. Half the items in my box are rainy-day "oh that looks kinda cool" things that maybe, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE I'd use someday, or quest glam-rewards I don't want to just throw out but never plan to use. We're still going to need more, but at least this'll cover the combat jobs for now.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Interpretation:

"Adding more space (as requested by many players) + allowing use of plates outside of major cities (as requested by many players) is a BAD THING, because it doesn't work like World of Warcraft's Trasmogrification system."

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No he didn't say that. Also Blizzard didn't invent such systems. Their first system was very limited but it wasn't too bad considering you only have one class (up to 4 specs) per character. It wasn't until Legion they caught up. DCUO, RIFT, GW2, WILDSTAR had collection based systems before they did.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

I'd give up 400 glamour slots if it meant i could glamour any gear on any class.

Having 400 extra slots doesn't mean jack shit when most of the healer gear is ugly white priestly robes with frilly bits everywhere.

I just want to look like an adventurer or field medic proper while also being able to dye my gear, but it seems too much to ask.

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There is the PVP set from ShB that is field medic-esque for healers.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

No he didn't say that. Also Blizzard didn't invent such systems. Their first system was very limited but it wasn't too bad considering you only have one class (up to 4 specs) per character. It wasn't until Legion they caught up. DCUO, RIFT, GW2, WILDSTAR had collection based systems before they did.

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GW2, for those who sometimes feel dye is a major issue for the system to exist (seen before in this thread, and other ones on the topic), is worth noting to have multiple dye channels as well (up to four, being able to really customize the color appearance).