FIFO mode for at least some marketboard items?

You can't buy specific quantities and undercutting sometimes is really "quick". What if the marketboard work as a first-in-first-out system where buyer sees each price bracket and quantity available (not each listing) and then picks how much from given bracket wants to buy? Then the server would pull it from the list.

Some additional anti-cheese/constant undercut rule should be there as well (like you can create a lower price X times a day while updating your price to lowest bracket is without restrictions).

This could improve listing for mass-items as well as items bought in singular quantities.

But supply vs demand. If there are loads upon loads of an item on the market board, the value of that item decreases. With your proposed system, it doesn’t allow for this to be reflected.

Also, it’s a free market

This would just cause people to list 99 of an item for an insane amount of gil. And either it would have to be bought up or no one would ever be able to sell that item again.

They should just do what WoW does and make it so when you buy a certain quantity of a stackable item, it automatically selects the lowest priced items on the market, gives you a price for those items, then lets you decide whether you want to buy them. For example, let's say you want to buy 50 iron ore. You select iron ore, type 50, and the game will automatically select the 50 cheapest pieces of iron ore available. Say there are 20 pieces for 2 gold each and 90 pieces for 3 gold each. It would select the 20 2-gold pieces and 30 of the 3-gold pieces, and give a total price of (20*2)+(30*3), or 130 gold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feronar

They should just do what WoW does and make it so when you buy a certain quantity of a stackable item, it automatically selects the lowest priced items on the market, gives you a price for those items, then lets you decide whether you want to buy them. For example, let's say you want to buy 50 iron ore. You select iron ore, type 50, and the game will automatically select the 50 cheapest pieces of iron ore available. Say there are 20 pieces for 2 gold each and 90 pieces for 3 gold each. It would select the 20 2-gold pieces and 30 of the 3-gold pieces, and give a total price of (20*2)+(30*3), or 130 gold.

---

I like this idea. Then I can buy out of a stack of 99 without needing to purchase the whole stack. Would be a very welcome QoL addition imo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feronar

They should just do what WoW does and make it so when you buy a certain quantity of a stackable item, it automatically selects the lowest priced items on the market, gives you a price for those items, then lets you decide whether you want to buy them. For example, let's say you want to buy 50 iron ore. You select iron ore, type 50, and the game will automatically select the 50 cheapest pieces of iron ore available. Say there are 20 pieces for 2 gold each and 90 pieces for 3 gold each. It would select the 20 2-gold pieces and 30 of the 3-gold pieces, and give a total price of (20*2)+(30*3), or 130 gold.

---

That would only make botting worse. At least now I can avoid the listings from known botters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

This would just cause people to list 99 of an item for an insane amount of gil.

---

And nobody would buy it while others still could start their listing at a different price. This could lead to some price fixing if sellers on a niche item agree to some fixed price and quantity per person over time... but if they undercut by 1 gil on a 100k+ item then it's not really driving the price down. It would be just good if there was less of 1gil undercut automation. ;)

Current WoW system that was mentioned is FIFO and you can list as you see fit - and most people follow the lowest price bracket (if it's realistic) instead of undercutting as that 1 extra gold is PROFIT :P

Some market board QoL would be great, but anti-undercutting measures are futile.

Crafting is extremely easy now. Gathering is even easier. This also creates a situation where more players can be self-sufficient. So now there's an abundance of crafted goods for sale, but very few buyers because most people can make their own.

The reason your items aren't selling is because they're worthless. Hardly anyone wants them and thousands of people want to sell the same thing. No, there's no point in looking at the market history and rambling about how "it was selling consistently for 100k and some idiot crashed the price to 50k!", because if one person undercutting could kill an entire market, that market was extremely fragile and hanging by a thread at 100k and you just got lucky for a while. Your item was never "worth 100k". It's worthless.

The market is also effected by the player population, since it has grown a lot in the past year. There are more crafters than ever before, so the supply is that much greater, which lowers the prices you have now on the market board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Some market board QoL would be great, but anti-undercutting measures are futile.

Crafting is extremely easy now. Gathering is even easier. This also creates a situation where more players can be self-sufficient. So now there's an abundance of crafted goods for sale, but very few buyers because most people can make their own.

The reason your items aren't selling is because they're worthless. Hardly anyone wants them and thousands of people want to sell the same thing. No, there's no point in looking at the market history and rambling about how "it was selling consistently for 100k and some idiot crashed the price to 50k!", because if one person undercutting could kill an entire market, that market was extremely fragile and hanging by a thread at 100k and you just got lucky for a while. Your item was never "worth 100k". It's worthless.

---

Futile? Make it so no one can see your listing price and all buy bids are speculative. Done. No more undercutting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

Futile? Make it so no one can see your listing price and all buy bids are speculative. Done. No more undercutting.

---

So what they basically had in FFXI? You could only see the sell history

Best measure, IMO, would be "buy listings". If someone wants a quick sale instead of the most gil possible, they just fill one of those instead of listing for sale, and it makes undercutting beyond a certain point futile. Won't help when supply vastly exceeds demand, but, that's the nature of a free market.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arazehl

The market is also effected by the player population, since it has grown a lot in the past year. There are more crafters than ever before, so the supply is that much greater, which lowers the prices you have now on the market board.

---

Yes, the rise in population will lead to more crafters, it will also lead to more non-crafters too which are the people who buy stuff.

As said earlier, making crafting and gathering be supremely stupid, I mean easy, sorry, accessible, yeah that's it, increases supply and decreases demand. A greater percentage can make stuff and therefore do not need to buy stuff. That is the change that is making the undercutting issue worse than before.

Should do like GW2, can buy whatever quantity you want. Can only buy the lowest priced item, but people can make buy orders and anyone selling have to place a price higher than the highest buy order or sell directly to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sharknado

Current WoW system that was mentioned is FIFO and you can list as you see fit - and most people follow the lowest price bracket (if it's realistic) instead of undercutting as that 1 extra gold is PROFIT :P

---

The WoW model is LIFO. That's what slows the rampant 1-gil-equivalent underselling; one doesn't need to undersell to be higher on the list that someone who already listed their items at the same price. Just by having sold it more recently, you're at the top of the list.

Is that fair? Maybe not. Does it help against miniscule undercuts? Absolutely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

Futile? Make it so no one can see your listing price and all buy bids are speculative. Done. No more undercutting.

---

This would require that anyone selling cannot also be buyers or require that one separately look up each item on the MB prior to using their retainers (which botters still won't need to do anyways). In short, you'd cripple a system in order to increase botter advantage.

I'm fairly certain that runescape also went this way, a long time ago but its market included all the worlds(100+). With daily price brackets so you can't sell one iron ore for max gold. I doubt the servers are setup well enough to have them all connected and I doubt it would work without them being connected.

What I would like is Buy order from New World. You list item you want at the price you want to buy it and if someone wants to sell you quickly at that price, they will.

I'd be happy if there was some kind of consequence to adjusting prices constantly like a cooldown on doing so or whatever. You shouldn't be able to constantly change prices. Or if you do maybe a fee based on a percentage of the sale attached to it. Either way the competitive items tend to race to the bottom and become worthless way to fast in this game. It makes selling a pain in the ass. Buying it's great because most competitive items quickly become worthless. But for a market system I hate this games the most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

I'd be happy if there was some kind of consequence to adjusting prices constantly like a cooldown on doing so or whatever. You shouldn't be able to constantly change prices. Or if you do maybe a fee based on a percentage of the sale attached to it. Either way the competitive items tend to race to the bottom and become worthless way to fast in this game. It makes selling a pain in the ass. Buying it's great because most competitive items quickly become worthless. But for a market system I hate this games the most.

---

Easiest way to stop the rapid price-changes would be to charge sellers a deposit when listing the sale, but that creates its own price-lowering pressures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Easiest would just be that you put in a deposit upon listing the sale, no?

---

Yeah, I mean that's how Wow does it. It doesn't stop undercutting, but nothing really does.

My bigger issue is how worthless items become over time with the current system. Sure it's all supply and demand, but it shouldn't be more advantageous to check to see how much something is before crafting it. Crafting it should just be cheaper. And example I have is the other day a guildie wanted me to make her windows for her room. I teleported around and gathered the mats myself. Let's say for simplicitys sake I spent 10k gil teleporting and I made 10 windows. Now I crafted too many windows and I'm gonna sell the spare. So at 10k teleporting fees that 100 gil a window so I'm like let's check the market board to sell it and the window is going for 20 gil. I could've just bought them which makes what I just did a complete waste of my time.

I'm not saying my fix would solve this issue, but I feel like being able to constantly adjust prices doesn't help the economy of the game.

Also being able to server hop and buy it cheaper is also kinda stupid. unrelated to the issue, but still.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

Yeah, I mean that's how Wow does it. It doesn't stop undercutting, but nothing really does.

My bigger issue is how worthless items become over time with the current system. Sure it's all supply and demand, but it shouldn't be more advantageous to check to see how much something is before crafting it. Crafting it should just be cheaper. And example I have is the other day a guildie wanted me to make her windows for her room. I teleported around and gathered the mats myself. Let's say for simplicitys sake I spent 10k gil teleporting and I made 10 windows. Now I crafted too many windows and I'm gonna sell the spare. So at 10k teleporting fees that 100 gil a window so I'm like let's check the market board to sell it and the window is going for 20 gil. I could've just bought them which makes what I just did a complete waste of my time.

I'm not saying my fix would solve this issue, but I feel like being able to constantly adjust prices doesn't help the economy of the game.

Also being able to server hop and buy it cheaper is also kinda stupid. unrelated to the issue, but still.

---

The situation you are describing has a lot more to do with crafted items being commonly brought back by retainers or dropped from maps. If getting an item literally costs "no effort" it will logically be pretty worthless on the marketboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

The situation you are describing has a lot more to do with crafted items being commonly brought back by retainers or dropped from maps. If getting an item literally costs "no effort" it will logically be pretty worthless on the marketboard.

---

I understand that, but if something is worthless it stays worthless is all I'm getting at. Everything is just racing to the bottom. Nothing has any inherent value outside of extreme primal mats or map mats and even then people race them to the bottom as well. It's just really difficult to even want to begin to deal with the market board. Hell gil in general is largely useless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

I understand that, but if something is worthless it stays worthless is all I'm getting at. Everything is just racing to the bottom. Nothing has any inherent value outside of extreme primal mats or map mats and even then people race them to the bottom as well. It's just really difficult to even want to begin to deal with the market board. Hell gil in general is largely useless.

---

Square Enix actively devalues older crafted furnishings and glamours by adding them to all kinds of random rewards like HoH sacks or Bozja lockboxes. This is entirely intentional and has little to do with the state of the marketboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

Square Enix actively devalues older crafted furnishings and glamours by adding them to all kinds of random rewards like HoH sacks or Bozja lockboxes. This is entirely intentional and has little to do with the state of the marketboard.

---

I mean it does when you try to gather it or use it to craft and it's cheaper to buy than gather. It's driven by it albeit drunkenly. It's all an issue with many things, but that's their problem they made the mess I'm just saying it's shit.

There is a behavior set where sometimes people don't register that the price they put for an item is actually a relative loss to their gain from it. This is why I simply vendor certain items below a certain profit. I am still confused why certain items are present on the marketboard at all. But it is what it is. It's just un-ideal behavior of mass markets but you can earn money elsewhere, because this implies there's way too much supply for the item vs its demand.

Wouldn't be against buy orders, though, since it can inform what people actually want.

Don't craft items that are cheap on the MB if you're crafting them for the purpose of making a profit (as opposed to fun, achievements, convenience, whatever). I mean, that's obvious, of course, but if it needs to be mentioned.

There seems a decent amount of items that can be sold effectively for 50-100k gil, I don't feel that the market is broken at all, and I am just a sprout baby who scratched the surface and is barely paying attention.

On one hand, the FFXI method would address undercutting. It is blind bidding. Sellers don't know what other sellers are selling for. Buyers only have the buy history (which we already have). Some of the limitations are stacks. I suppose the WoW method of bidding for 50 items at a certain price would just give you the lowest 50? Seems like it would require some overhaul of the MB system. How does the MB figure out those 50 purchases if someone else is doing a purchase of any one of those 50 items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

There is a behavior set where sometimes people don't register that the price they put for an item is actually a relative loss to their gain from it.

---

Like clear demimateria below vendor value listed on the MB that has no use anyway? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

There seems a decent amount of items that can be sold effectively for 50-100k gil, I don't feel that the market is broken at all, and I am just a sprout baby who scratched the surface and is barely paying attention.

---

The small issue is some retainers magically relist 1 gil below you really quickly, often below a minute. Even if an item sells 10-20 a day at 100k those instant undercuts pretty much lock the market for others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

On one hand, the FFXI method would address undercutting. It is blind bidding. Sellers don't know what other sellers are selling for. Buyers only have the buy history (which we already have). Some of the limitations are stacks. I suppose the WoW method of bidding for 50 items at a certain price would just give you the lowest 50? Seems like it would require some overhaul of the MB system. How does the MB figure out those 50 purchases if someone else is doing a purchase of any one of those 50 items.

---

Right now WoW has listings at player defined prices. You can either list at your price or select existing one. When you select existing one (like the lowest one) you items are placed in an order - newest listed are on the end, and oldest are on the front (FIFO - first in first out). When someone buys whatever quantity available they buy starting from the oldest. As for concurrency of transactions this is done via locks - one transaction will lock selected items and parallel transaction trying to lock same item would encounter and exception and would have to repeat the process of looking and locking items for the transaction or returning an error to the user if items sold out. Same thing happens already on the marketboard when you sometime want to buy but you get an error message and the listing is gone after you refresh the list.

I really like how GW2 deals with this (in some ways):

Quote:

---

Players can select the quantity and price per unit for items being bought or sold.

Buying items
Place Order — match other current buyers or place a custom buy order. Coins will be held until a seller is found or the transaction is canceled.
Buy Instantly — purchase from current sell orders based on available volume.

Selling items
Sell Instantly — sell to current buy orders based on available demand.
List This Item — match other current sellers or place a custom listing. Items will be held until a buyer is found or the transaction is canceled.

---

this way if you want to sell something fast you don't have to undercut (then the market is free for people that wants profit).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

There is a behavior set where sometimes people don't register that the price they put for an item is actually a relative loss to their gain from it. This is why I simply vendor certain items below a certain profit. I am still confused why certain items are present on the marketboard at all. But it is what it is. It's just un-ideal behavior of mass markets but you can earn money elsewhere, because this implies there's way too much supply for the item vs its demand.

Wouldn't be against buy orders, though, since it can inform what people actually want.

Don't craft items that are cheap on the MB if you're crafting them for the purpose of making a profit (as opposed to fun, achievements, convenience, whatever). I mean, that's obvious, of course, but if it needs to be mentioned.

There seems a decent amount of items that can be sold effectively for 50-100k gil, I don't feel that the market is broken at all, and I am just a sprout baby who scratched the surface and is barely paying attention.

---

I do that a lot when I'm leveling a crafter and want to free my bag (just sell everything I have, I want some money back, not looking for profit.. my profit was the EXP), I do 3 or 4 extra HQ items for each mission and sell those too (and there I Always find profit)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

Futile? Make it so no one can see your listing price and all buy bids are speculative. Done. No more undercutting.

---

that kind of kills any fun there is left in crafting and selling things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feronar

They should just do what WoW does and make it so when you buy a certain quantity of a stackable item, it automatically selects the lowest priced items on the market, gives you a price for those items, then lets you decide whether you want to buy them. For example, let's say you want to buy 50 iron ore. You select iron ore, type 50, and the game will automatically select the 50 cheapest pieces of iron ore available. Say there are 20 pieces for 2 gold each and 90 pieces for 3 gold each. It would select the 20 2-gold pieces and 30 of the 3-gold pieces, and give a total price of (20*2)+(30*3), or 130 gold.

---

Better yet, how EVE does it. You list 99 pieces for, say 10 gil each, which is currently the lowest on the market. Someone comes in and wants to buy 20. 20 of your 99 are sold to them at 10 gil each, with the remaining 79 still remaining up for sale. Items posted for sale at the same price (ex. someone else comes in and posts some for the same 10 gil each) are served in FIFO order, while requests to buy items are filled lowest-to-highest. If someone tries to buy more than is available at a given price point, it buys the remainder at the next price point up. For example, if you have your 79 for sale at 10g each still, and Person B else comes in and posts 5 at 10g, and then Person C posts 5 at 9g each, and then Person D posts 99 at 11g each. Person E comes in and tells the MB they want to buy 99 of them. The first 5 come from the lowest order, Person C's at 9g each, 45g total. The next 79 come from your order, since it was the first posted at 10g, and the next 5 come from Person B's, also at 10g, 840g total. The remaining 10 come from Person D's order at 11g each (110g total), for a total cost of 995g, and the new lowest order is the remaining 89 of the original 99 posted for sale by Person D.

Basically, full commodity market functionality. Doesn't make sense for things like mounts, minions, housing items, gear, etc, but for anything realistically intended to be generated and purchased in bulk (essentially anything in the consumables, crafting materials, dyes, materia, etc), it makes both purchasing and selling them much easier. It also removes the need to structure one's sell order quantities around likely buy order sizes, and if the MB interface auto-fills the current lowest price for that item, largely negates the "oh, hey, the current lowest sell order is for 3999, I'll post mine for 3000 so it'll sell faster!" silliness that can cut the price of a good by 80% in less than an hour, and then see it bounce right back up half a day later. Reducing market volatility in commodities is, imo, a very useful side-effect.

Personally love Bdos market style, mostly bring able to place orders, slapping down a high price on something I really want or need while also being able to see what is truely in demand and filling those orders out. Unfortunately dont think Bdos price brackets wouldnt work in FFXIV, considering how easy it is to gather/craft a lot of items, prices are surely going to always be crashing, where in BDO stuff is still walled off with stamina/time to a degree...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sharknado

You can't buy specific quantities and undercutting sometimes is really "quick". What if the marketboard work as a first-in-first-out system where buyer sees each price bracket and quantity available (not each listing) and then picks how much from given bracket wants to buy? Then the server would pull it from the list.

Some additional anti-cheese/constant undercut rule should be there as well (like you can create a lower price X times a day while updating your price to lowest bracket is without restrictions).

This could improve listing for mass-items as well as items bought in singular quantities.

---

Eh, I don't think this will work here.