New MCH “Buffs” Are Insulting

Pretty short and sweet - overall dancer got a roughly 5% increase in overall potency output. Dancer even has a higher potency per minute output than MCH (including tech step here).

60 Potency between long cool down abilities means the difference between BRD and MCH is a minor minor DPS loss (like a fraction of a percentage) for Battle Voice, Minne, passive buff as well.

Either raise MCH overall potency output or give us some of our support skills from 4.x back or come up with new ones (Palisade equivalent, and healing received single target buff would be nice).

Because right now there’s no reason to bring MCH. As a selfish DPS it fails hard. We should be competing with some casters. RDM can wipe the floor with MCH in terms of dmg and brings a raise, magic barrier and addle.

Why is the dev team so afraid of giving MCH actual damage buffs? BRD is still stronger than MCH, so why should i even bring it to savage/ultimate knowing that I'm griefing my team since BRD does more in terms of raid damage contribution combined their own personal dps? The 0.8% “buff” makes absolutely no sense. Hell, having a "selfish" ranged physical DPS in a category consisting of mainly support DPS jobs makes no sense either.

I don't understand this "buff".

They said they were stingy on pure DPS but 0.9% of DPS increase is not "stingy", it's simply doing something for the sake of doing something.
I was looking forward 6.08 but now I'm even more scared for 6.1.

If the dev wants "nicer feedback" they should also respect their playerbase rather than spitting in our face with barebone potency upgrade. This whole situation starts to feel like a "us vs them".

Granted it's not 6.1 but it's a bit lel when others got much bigger buffs.
NIN buffs kinda lackluster too imo...

For the amount of things MCH doesn’t bring to the party it’s a pretty sad lil buff. They need either a lot more dps or some kinda raid dps buff.

I don't understand the purpose of this buff either, this doesn't solve the issue at all and it bring even more frustration to see that the dev team or whoever design the job seems like they don't even know what they are doing with MCH.

Maybe it is hard to not make them completely crazy strong in potd, as they are already the best class there. But then they could focus on post lvl60 abilities

Sometimes I legitimately have no idea what they are thinking with regards to Machinist and the more patches we get where it's stayed in this state, the happier I am that I finally bit the bullet and just switched to MNK. I just want the job I enjoyed the most to have a reason to exist in a party, but apparently it's been far too much to ask for years now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Maybe it is hard to not make them completely crazy strong in potd, as they are already the best class there. But then they could focus on post lvl60 abilities

---

There is a trait at lv84 that improves your 1 2 3.
We all expected that they would buff jobs through these traits to keep Ultimate and Deep Dungeon untouched but 6.08 touched none of these traits.

They could have at least reduced the cooldown on Reassemble as welln that would compound these buffs as it's used exclusively with these skills, and the 2nd charge it gained with EW is functionally useless outside of the opener.

Just wait until Endwalker! Oh. Just wait until 6.05! Oh. Just wait until 6.08! Oh. Just wait until 6.1! ... ...

Anyone else about done with the copium? I just don't see SQEX, with all of their internal statistics, ignoring MCH for this long and then suddenly one day doing a complete 180 and realizing that MCH should be RIGHT BELOW SAM and BLM as they fulfill the same subrole (raid-buffless, selfish DPS). MCH are in the state that they're in right now because SQEX WANTED them to be here.

MCH, and honestly Physical Ranged DPS as a whole, are the ugly step-children of this game. Existing only to deliver that meaty 1% role bonus. The day MCH is brought up to speed is probably the day PHYS Ranged is completely reworked. Which is to say; very unlikely within the lifespan of Endwalker.

I do think the team made some mistakes, but not for the Machinist job as a selfish DPS. The issue is that the ranged design team isn't communicating with the melee and caster design teams. It's really strange that there's such a lack of communication between the teams, but hopefully it can be fixed. In a game about teamwork and comradery I fully agree with the ranged team's design vision that being a selfish DPS should be punished rather than encouraged. I don't think anybody would be complaining if Samurai did the same damage as Red Mage or Black Mage did the same damage as current Summoner. After all this is the way the current ranged jobs are balanced.

It's stupid easy to fix MCH, really. Just change the Potency on Heat Blast from 170 to 200 and call it a day. Boom, instant massive DPS bump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Maybe it is hard to not make them completely crazy strong in potd, as they are already the best class there. But then they could focus on post lvl60 abilities

---

If they're balancing the game around what is and is not good at soloing a piece of leveling side content, then i have no faith in the development team.

DNC needed those buffs, but why neglect the other two jobs always?

It's like Square likes to play favorites or something...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

If they're balancing the game around what is and is not good at soloing a piece of leveling side content, then i have no faith in the development team.

---

I mean if you look at the current 90%tiles for the new raid on average, mnk is at 8200 dps #1 and mch with 7300 dps #10. That is a spread of like 10% in which almost all dps classes are in. Only because of how different classes are you can expect there to be always be a spread of 5%+ in comparision. I dont think its huge reason of concern, unless you are mch main and hate to see other dps are this patch infront of you for once... Every time you buff the bad class, there will be a new bad class, its a never ending complain circle lmao because everyone loves their class to be competing with the best.

And ye I do think they keep potd in mind, they managed to balance PvP and PvE during heavensward with the same skills, which was much harder to do.

MCH has far superior nDPS than BRD/DNC, why would you buff it even further? With new buffs it will be on par to BRD rDPS, the only reason BRD is at top is because of its buffs not raw damage.

Bard DPS primarily comes from one button. Why is MCH doing 3 times the work and doing less damage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Bard DPS primarily comes from one button. Why is MCH doing 3 times the work and doing less damage?

---

While there is nothing wrong about believing MCH should be doing a higher amount of damage by a very large amount, lets not also say things that are blatantly incorrect. On even the best bards Burst Shot/Refulgent Arrow makes up less then half of their pDPS output, and that not even taking into account their rDPS contribution from the songs, Battle Voice, and Radiant Finale. Bard also sits with Machinist as one of the top 3 jobs in APM. You're not doing 3 times more work. Not even close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurikai

MCH has far superior nDPS than BRD/DNC, why would you buff it even further? With new buffs it will be on par to BRD rDPS, the only reason BRD is at top is because of its buffs not raw damage.

---

Alright back to explaining basics of rDPS...

You, Michael and Fred have money.
You have 200€ in your pocket.
Michael have 150€ in his pocket but You owe Michael 50€ and Fred also owes 50€.
Fred have 250€ in his poocket.

Who is richer?

Using nDPS means you completely ignores the money Michael lent.
Plus, remind yourself MCH is supposed to be a pure DPS with no support, it will be lower than DNC that provides healing and shielding.
It's as if BLM was right behind RDM and SMN.

How is this balanced to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rika007

While there is nothing wrong about believing MCH should be doing a higher amount of damage by a very large amount, lets not also say things that are blatantly incorrect. On even the best bards Burst Shot/Refulgent Arrow makes up less then half of their pDPS output, and that not even taking into account their rDPS contribution from the songs, Battle Voice, and Radiant Finale. Bard also sits with Machinist as one of the top 3 jobs in APM. You're not doing 3 times more work. Not even close.

---

MCH requires you build up heat and use Heat Blast to otherwise build up charges for your oGCDS. Bard only requires one button to passively gain a ton of Bloodletter/Rain of Death charges over a 45 second duration and likewise has a fun little minigame with Pitch perfect in which you have RNG 3 second windows to proc a stack of PP all while using Burst Shot most of that time anyway.

And isn't overall personal DPS from burst shot about what 46%-48%? That's about half your dps.

With proper rotation Bard is a walking Machinegun.

Wildfire Bomb has no business being as weak as it is on a 2 minute CD and AQ is clunky. Flamethrower is a dead skill. Best skill acquisition for MCH is Scattergun not because of damage but heat gain so they can Fell Clea-I mean Heat Blast more.

And still falls behind Bard despite having no rDPS utilities.

I mean if they want to buff the 3 skills that do the same damage on single target may as well go all the way and give MCH 3 Reassemble charges.

And I'd imagine allowing Autocrossbow to generate oGCD charges would be quite beneficial to AoE output.

For a patch toting potency buffs Flamethrower would have been a prime candidate.

Look forward to 6.1 I guess?

What gets to me is you can prove mathmatically that flamethrower is useless once you have shotgun.

No flamethrower buff, so they must not care.

I'm certainly no balancing expert, but I see something like either of the following being a big help:

A) Buff the potency of Heat Blast and Flamethrower and allow Auto Crossbow to generate oGCD

or

B) Bring back a reworked Dismantle and make Flamethrower apply an AOE debuff of sorts that still works great on single targets with greater strength the longer the MCH can keep it going (in pvp this used to be a dot, but you could make it anything)

These are just two options that would send MCH in one direction or another that would not overlap with the support systems of BRD or DNC. Pure DPS or Saboteur. If SE insists on the 'tax' being a certain level, it should go on a saboteur route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Granted it's not 6.1 but it's a bit lel when others got much bigger buffs.
NIN buffs kinda lackluster too imo...

---

NIN buffs amuse me.

All I wanted to see for NIN was Trick Attack changing to a party buff instead of single target debuff with a trait for extending the buff duration on self.

Super annoying to look at my DPS graph on NIN and see massive spikes in the Trick window followed by damage dropping by 1/3rd between windows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

What gets to me is you can prove mathmatically that flamethrower is useless once you have shotgun.

No flamethrower buff, so they must not care.

---

isn't the per second potency of flamethrower still stronger? But I guess the heat gain make scattergun better in the long run. Maybe make flamethrower gain heat since it is fire after all haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garet

isn't the per second potency of flamethrower still stronger? But I guess the heat gain make scattergun better in the long run. Maybe make flamethrower gain heat since it is fire after all haha

---

It's a... 5 potency gain per second. Somewhere along those lines.
I know it's a gain on 3+ target but you can ignore it and barely lose anything.

Making Flamethrower generate heat is good in dungeon but that's a terrible idea in raiding.
You would still need to remain immobile for 10 seconds during downtime and would need a very good knowledge of the fight to not overheat.
And I'm putting aside the tick fishing.

In short, Flamethrower would be even more frustrating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Bard DPS primarily comes from one button. Why is MCH doing 3 times the work and doing less damage?

---

Funny how that argument goes out the window when people say MCH should be brought further up the totem pole. Then all of a sudden it's 'oh complexity shouldn't be used in balancing.'

Let's not pretend MCH is a complicated job, when it's widely considered one of the most unga bunga DPS classes in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

Funny how that argument goes out the window when people say MCH should be brought further up the totem pole. Then all of a sudden it's 'oh complexity shouldn't be used in balancing.'

Let's not pretend MCH is a complicated job, when it's widely considered one of the most unga bunga DPS classes in the game.

---

The complexity comes from trying to fit in enough Heat Blasts in your Hypercharge window lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

Funny how that argument goes out the window when people say MCH should be brought further up the totem pole. Then all of a sudden it's 'oh complexity shouldn't be used in balancing.'

Let's not pretend MCH is a complicated job, when it's widely considered one of the most unga bunga DPS classes in the game.

---

If complexity should be used in balancing, RPR would be bottom, SMN would be faaaar below anyone, RDM would not be high.
Samurai is very easy, especially with the new charges that makes the rotation insanely flexible.
Dragoon has a lot to weave in but it's not complex either.
BLM sure sounds intimidating but all that instant cast.

MCH is not complex but I'm listening...

Which job is complex?
There is no complex job, it's time to accept that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

Funny how that argument goes out the window when people say MCH should be brought further up the totem pole. Then all of a sudden it's 'oh complexity shouldn't be used in balancing.'

Let's not pretend MCH is a complicated job, when it's widely considered one of the most unga bunga DPS classes in the game.

---

This is why SE need to scrap it and start over again.. with proper identity DPS or support. Turning it to a "unga bunga" job with rework and abandoning it not a solution :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insertusernamehere

This is why SE need to scrap it and start over again.. with proper identity DPS or support. Turning it to a "unga bunga" job with rework and abandoning it not a solution :3

---

I agree. pRanged should all be buffing/support DPS so we don't have MCH occupying the weird space it currently does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

Which job is complex?
There is no complex job, it's time to accept that.

---

If you think there's no difference between MCH (or DNC for that matter) complexity and MNK, BLM (or hell even Astro but that's a whole other mess) complexity I don't know what to tell ya. Am I saying any job in this game is particularly complex? Not really. I've played competitive Starcraft, I know complex and XIV ain't it. But to put MCH complexity as anywhere other than pretty much at the bottom of the pile in the DPS roles is ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

If complexity should be used in balancing, RPR would be bottom

---

And RPR is still ridiculously overpowered, even after yesterday's patch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

If you think there's no difference between MCH (or DNC for that matter) complexity and MNK, BLM (or hell even Astro but that's a whole other mess) complexity I don't know what to tell ya. Am I saying any job in this game is particularly complex? Not really. I've played competitive Starcraft, I know complex and XIV ain't it. But to put MCH complexity as anywhere other than pretty much at the bottom of the pile in the DPS roles is ridiculous.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

MCH is not complex but I'm listening...

---

I never put MCH at the same level of complexity.
I just said that all jobs complexity is very low.

On a scale of complexity from 0 to 100, if SMN is 1, MCH is a 10, then BLM is no higher than a 15, maybe a 20 if you really want to push it.
There is a lot of jobs easier than MCH. RPR, SAM, DNC, RDM, SMN.
BRD and DRG are not far from MCH complexity either.
And this is why we can't balance around complexity, SAM would be below NIN, SMN would be unplayable.

Good on you for playing Starcraft but this is XIV forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

Which job is complex?
There is no complex job, it's time to accept that.

---

This is correct. No job in the game is complex. The most complex jobs arguably should be crafters but every crafter will use macros anyway for perfect crafts everytime so complexity is thrown out the window.

When it comes to MCH it's a very braindead uunga buunga job. It was arguably more complex before the rework.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garet

isn't the per second potency of flamethrower still stronger? But I guess the heat gain make scattergun better in the long run. Maybe make flamethrower gain heat since it is fire after all haha

---

Flamethrower stops autoattack.
The damage from autoattack plus the shotgun damage is higher than the flamethrower already.
Add in heat and .. yha, you fall way behind.