Help! I'm having problem healing GNB mass pull.

I don't mind mass pull. I love using Art of War to damage.

However I seems to have a problem keeping tank alive. (Especially GNB)

I usually Adloquium/Excogitation pre pull, whispering Dawn, Protraction (Aetherpact/Fey Union) on tank. Then I will keep casting Art of War on mobs. This works most of the time, however there are instances where tank just drop death within secs. I will use Lustrate/Emergency Tactics+Adloquium. But they still die.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I use more Fey Illumination/Dissipation/Expedient?

I think sacred soil would be a good start to get that 10% mitigation going.

i always have lustrate at the ready and depending on how big the pull is, make sure to use sacred soil at your discretion, every little bit helps. but if your tank doesn't pop his defensives then eff him lol that's his fault for dying.

The most likely scenario however, is that the GnBs you get are just bad.


As a GnB main I can tell you, healing this job in dungeons is not hard. Is it harder to heal than warrior? Well, yeah of course, but that's because Bloodwhetting is busted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

I don't mind mass pull. I love using Art of War to damage.

However I seems to have a problem keeping tank alive. (Especially GNB)

I usually Adloquium/Excogitation pre pull, whispering Dawn, Protraction (Aetherpact/Fey Union) on tank. Then I will keep casting Art of War on mobs. This works most of the time, however there are instances where tank just drop death within secs. I will use Lustrate/Emergency Tactics+Adloquium. But they still die.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I use more Fey Illumination/Dissipation/Expedient?

---

I main healer and sometimes is my fault because i try to dps to much, but with the release of Endwalker there are a lot of people leveling classes that they are not used to. So don't sweat it.

I had a gnb the other day who claimed that he shouldn't even need to use HoC on trash packs in a wall pull, all he used was rampart and suffice to say he died very quickly. I wasn't gonna bust my balls to heal that, so I asked him to mitigate more after he dropped, he got defensive and called me incapable and I got votekicked (thank god). Idk where this mentality of lemme just hold onto this 25s cd for a rainy day comes from but goodness some people really shouldn't play tank. So besides the lack of soil I'm gonna say you got a bad tank cuz even with soil there's almost nothing you can do if the tank isn't doing their job.

Check the tank's buffs in the party/target window to see if they are using their cooldowns, If you see nothing then you gotta start pulling healing potency from the book of magical wonders.

Expedient is definitely good to use when travelling to pull more dungeon mobs, it's definitely worthwile to use and provides some light mitigation while the tank is rounding mobs up. Though, if the tank is undergeared there is not much that can be done about that situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MsTanya

I had a gnb the other day who claimed that he shouldn't even need to use HoC on trash packs in a wall pull, all he used was rampart and suffice to say he died very quickly. I wasn't gonna bust my balls to heal that, so I asked him to mitigate more after he dropped, he got defensive and called me incapable and I got votekicked (thank god). Idk where this mentality of lemme just hold onto this 25s cd for a rainy day comes from but goodness some people really shouldn't play tank. So besides the lack of soil I'm gonna say you got a bad tank cuz even with soil there's almost nothing you can do if the tank isn't doing their job.

---

Casually levelling sage through SHB dungeons lately and I've had GNBs who were either gods or made of paper lol. Did a Malikah's Well with GNB who died on the first pull, I assumed it was my fault but then realised he just didn't use anything. He pressed HoS maybe twice through the entire dungeon? Queued again right after and got a different GNB in the same dungeon who I could keep up just cycling Kerachole into Taurochole and some minor cds pretty much. The difference between some tanks is like night and day sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izyla

Casually levelling sage through SHB dungeons lately and I've had GNBs who were either gods or made of paper lol. Did a Malikah's Well with GNB who died on the first pull, I assumed it was my fault but then realised he just didn't use anything. He pressed HoS maybe twice through the entire dungeon? Queued again right after and got a different GNB in the same dungeon who I could keep up just cycling Kerachole into Taurochole and some minor cds pretty much. The difference between some tanks is like night and day sometimes.

---

Expect if you play drk,even when I did rotate my cooldowns in dungeons from lvl 81 too 90 I always thought “Jesus/healer take the wheel”.

I would shift Protraction to one of the first abilities that I weave so everything that I throw after within next 10s would be 10% stronger.

My fave drill with SCH wall pull is something like this:
Biolysis/Ground Slap + Recitation + Protraction > Ground Slap + WD + SS > Ground Slap + Excog > Show off that bicep by slapping harder. Keep the last two stock handy in case the tank needs the Lustrates. Blessing, now costing no fae gauge, can also be uses liberally for tank healing in wall pulls.

Recitation can be weaved few seconds before tank finish pulling. I do have to remember to actually use it for something within next 15s.

Additionally, if I foreseen the current pull will die soon, I’ll try to spend any remaining leftover stacks and hit that Dissipation (hopefully fast enough). Now I can start next wall pull with 20% stronger prepull Adlo, built up fae gauge for Union, & 6 stocks ready (3 from diss, another 3 from Aetherflow that’s about or should be off cooldown by then). Maybe... drop an Illumination there too for a beefy 30% prepull shield? But it's largely unneeded. I find it somewhat handy if I need to fall back on some Adlos with the extra 10% healing magic buff, but this situation rarely happens.

Feeling extra? I can summon seraph and watch as she trivializes pulls on most part, or on her own. But she's there if I need something more to help a struggling tanks... and to let me slap the ground more. Do remember to use the Consolation charges if you decide to summon her.

GNB dying in ‘few seconds’? That’s more like a gear and mitigation problem from their side. Sometimes not even you spamming Adlos can save these tanks.

Expedient…? Treat it as additional layer of mitigation if you'd like to. But guess what, I often only remember to use it to force tanks to sprint a wall pull cause for some reason they're not. Geezz SCHs why are you such a meme lmao.

Idk, i've been having trouble doing w2w pulls with most healer jobs except AST, it just doesn't matter if the tanks are getting absolutely destroyed, AST just never runs out of fuel. I'm having the most trouble with SCH, I just run out of resources too fast, the tanks are usually taking so much damage that DPSing is out of the question, they'll instantly die if I even so much as blink, my SCH is still 76 so I don't have the full toolkit yet, but i still end up feeling very overwhelmed in big pulls no matter what job the tank is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xtro99

the tanks are usually taking so much damage that DPSing is out of the question, they'll instantly die if I even so much as blink

---

If you don't have time to dps on SCH at level 76 then the tank is 100% either undergeared or not doing their job properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MsTanya

I had a gnb the other day who claimed that he shouldn't even need to use HoC on trash packs in a wall pull, all he used was rampart and suffice to say he died very quickly. I wasn't gonna bust my balls to heal that, so I asked him to mitigate more after he dropped, he got defensive and called me incapable and I got votekicked (thank god). Idk where this mentality of lemme just hold onto this 25s cd for a rainy day comes from but goodness some people really shouldn't play tank. So besides the lack of soil I'm gonna say you got a bad tank cuz even with soil there's almost nothing you can do if the tank isn't doing their job.

---

Lol, saving those defensives for the argument later I see!

If the tank is dying within seconds, it's 100% the tank's fault. It's been a problem recently with people returning to the game or new players not understanding that mitigation is NOT optional in wall to wall pulls.

This is true with all tanks, not just Gunbreakers. Though you are probably noticing it more on Gunbreakers as they have the lowest HPS of all the tanks in dungeons.

In a very large pull, as a Tank - IF I see the damage eating me for good - is always fine to use our invulnerability, making space for the Healer to take a breath and organize the kit, as you should too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandatwin

If the tank is dying within seconds, it's 100% the tank's fault. It's been a problem recently with people returning to the game or new players not understanding that mitigation is NOT optional in wall to wall pulls.

This is true with all tanks, not just Gunbreakers. Though you are probably noticing it more on Gunbreakers as they have the lowest HPS of all the tanks in dungeons.

---

Not using mitigation at all aside, there are plenty of ways in which a tank can make healing signifcantly harder even if they do use mitigation, like
- using mitigation once they notice they're dropping hard as a sort of panic button
- frontloading a pull with mitigation, barely taking damage at the start but full damage for the rest of the pull
- going several GCDs without any mitigation at all before using the next cooldown even though they could neatly chain it
- only using "big" cooldowns like 30% and 20%, ignoring Arm's Lengths and small cooldowns

It's something to watch out for because I see that much more often than tanks not using mitigation at all. They use it ... just not in a good way.
So mitigation cooldown icons popping up is a start but if the tank still feels squishy, it's good to check how they use it. Of course, the same goes for healers. I see plenty of healers use their full toolkit, just in a very inefficient way.

GBN isn't squishy at all, the kit is quite strong in EW. It's DRK that makes healers work for it, and by work I mean GCD healing.

Arm's Length + Repisal combined is very effective mitigation, so tanks can use these if needed, if they don't pop mitigation CD its their fault.

As a SCH you also have Seraph, the stronger embrace and 2 casts of Consolation 250 + 250 barrier is very useful to weave between AoE spamming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Arm's Length + Repisal combined is very effective mitigation, so tanks can use these if needed, if they don't pop mitigation CD its their fault.

---

Stupid question though this is probably just due to how I read and understand the ability.

Arm’s Length gives a barrier against knock/draw in. Additionally, slow enemy when barrier is hit.

To me this reads that if a knock back/draw in would hit the barrier, the only thing that the barrier effects, said target gets slowed. Anything else that doesn’t interact with the barrier is okay.

Again this might just be a “Merlin fails at reading comprehension” moment. Wouldn’t be the first time and it’s been awhile.

Nono, any physical auto attack procs the slow from Arm's Length, but only knockback mechanics trigger the knockback/draw-in immunity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

Nono, any physical auto attack procs the slow from Arm's Length, but only knockback mechanics trigger the knockback/draw-in immunity.

---

I realize that’s what it actually does, my mind just reads it like that. Perhaps they could fix the wording. Or I stop being dumb.

That said a GNB that dies that rapidly is a tank not hitting any CDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I realize that’s what it actually does, my mind just reads it like that. Perhaps they could fix the wording. Or I stop being dumb.

---

The tooltip could certainly use some improvements, when I read it I initially thought the "slow" effect was in regards to movement speed and not attack speed of enemies.


Unfortunately that applies to a lot of tooltips. We keep telling players who perform significantly below average to actually read their tooltips, but SE doesn't exactly make the descriptions very clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

The tooltip could certainly use some improvements, when I read it I initially thought the "slow" effect was in regards to movement speed and not attack speed of enemies.


Unfortunately that applies to a lot of tooltips. We keep telling players who perform significantly below average to actually read their tooltips, but SE doesn't exactly make the descriptions very clear.

---

When I first read the tooltip, I also thought it was only movement speed and only later discovered that it's called "Heavy" and not "Slow".
Same with tooltips about increasing healing magic vs healing actions. I didn't know the difference until I got into raiding. I just thought it increases all healing, I didn't know that the default is that oGCDs are not affected unless stated otherwise.
Some tooltips could do with an update.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

When I first read the tooltip, I also thought it was only movement speed and only later discovered that it's called "Heavy" and not "Slow".
Same with tooltips about increasing healing magic vs healing actions. I didn't know the difference until I got into raiding. I just thought it increases all healing, I didn't know that the default is that oGCDs are not affected unless stated otherwise.
Some tooltips could do with an update.

---

Okay but WHY does it work like that with Healing? I didn’t know that either that’s just being obtuse now.

Sorry to take over the topic that’s just weird with tool tips

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Okay but WHY does it work like that with Healing? I didn’t know that either that’s just being obtuse now.

Sorry to take over the topic that’s just weird with tool tips

---

Healing magic means only GCD heals are affected as they are called "Spells".
Healing actions means everything, both Spells and Abilities, are affected and not limited to magic = Spells.
With some mental gymnastics one could probably get the drift that magic only affects spells while actions means everything but I definitely didn't get it. I never found this to be particulary intuitive and I never understood why they didn't simply write "Increases healing from healing Spells" and "Increases healing from healing Spells and Abilities" instead of magic/ actions. Add "Weaponskills" to include the tank combos if necessary, but we have clear names for each type of skill (Spell, Weaponskill, Ability), why not use them?

As to why... it's probably a relic from ARR/ HW era when we had only very few oGCDs and GCD heals were more bread & butter. So it made sense back then that buffs primarily affected GCD heals as they were the ones you fell back on when lots of healing was required.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of an exception to this rule: I believe the difference between "increases healing magic" vs "increases healing actions" is the difference between incoming vs outgoing heals. All of the abilities that only increase GCD heal potency are buffs that apply to the healer, while the ones that universally increase healing are the ones that boost healing on the person healed.

Not that this isn't a weird and arbitrary distinction, but I think that's why those buffs are "allowed" to boost oGCDs. Because the buff can't tell the difference between incoming heal sources, so it just boosts all of them, whereas boosts like Temperance and Dissipation only affect GCDs because they apply to the person casting the heals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of an exception to this rule: I believe the difference between "increases healing magic" vs "increases healing actions" is the difference between incoming vs outgoing heals. All of the abilities that only increase GCD heal potency are buffs that apply to the healer, while the ones that universally increase healing are the ones that boost healing on the person healed.

Not that this isn't a weird and arbitrary distinction, but I think that's why those buffs are "allowed" to boost oGCDs. Because the buff can't tell the difference between incoming heal sources, so it just boosts all of them, whereas boosts like Temperance and Dissipation only affect GCDs because they apply to the person casting the heals.

---

That's indeed how it works but the problem is that nothing in any of the tooltips makes this connection obvious.
And the fact that Fey Illumination applies a buff to all party members for healing done instead of healing received doesn't make it any easier to make this connection. Any of the buffs, like Temperance, Fey Illumination and Dissipation could easily be changed to affect oGCDs by simply applying a double buff to the party that increases healing received.
The problem is still that none of the tooltips make it obvious what is affected and why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

That's indeed how it works but the problem is that nothing in any of the tooltips makes this connection obvious.
And the fact that Fey Illumination applies a buff to all party members for healing done instead of healing received doesn't make it any easier to make this connection. Any of the buffs, like Temperance, Fey Illumination and Dissipation could easily be changed to affect oGCDs by simply applying a double buff to the party that increases healing received.
The problem is still that none of the tooltips make it obvious what is affected and why.

---

Updating healers so their abilities make sense? Why on earth would that ever happen?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Updating healers so their abilities make sense? Why on earth would that ever happen?

---

They'll probably update tooltips from MNK etc. so they make sense and completely forget about the role nobody cares about and that doesn't really exist anyway.
I'm a giant pile of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

I don't mind mass pull. I love using Art of War to damage.

However I seems to have a problem keeping tank alive. (Especially GNB)

---

you're not alone; I ran into that problem last night and was stunned by how fast the GNB went down...multiple times. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnnCee

you're not alone; I ran into that problem last night and was stunned by how fast the GNB went down...multiple times. :(

---

Tinfoil hat time. Maybe, just maybe, there is a correlation between the GnB boost being a best selling item on the Mogstation and all those GnB's in your dungeons being absolutely terrible at their job.