My issue with role quests

they were interesting from a narrative perspective and they helped tie up any loose ends for the various city states. and as of writing i've completed the melee, caster, tank, and soon healer role quests. the reason why i felt like it was pointless was because i kept thinking to myself: "why do i need to be a certain role for this?"

now that's not to say role quests were a complete wash and are bad, i just think that locking them to specific roles serves no purpose from a narrative perspective and just feels sort of arbitrary

well the ranged physical role quest specifically has a blasphemy that can fly and is pretty speedy so they wanted someone for their ranged attack ability.

The point of role quests is a "brush up" on your responsibilities as that role. Tanks gotta tank, healers gotta heal and cleanse, DPS gotta damage and interrupt and do mechanics.

The stories are nice little additions to characters we got involved with long ago.

The story is there to make the brush up interesting, not for the purpose of being a story for that particular role.

You are needed for actual healing in the healer role quest at the final fight. But I think with that one there's also a metaphysical meaning. You're helping to heal the hurts of a nation and of a certain NPC. The ranged involves a flying mob and they specifically ask for someone ranged who can fight it, though that doesn't come into play in the final fight and that was a loss I think.

I'm on the last quest of caster and haven't seen anything particular to that role. For tank, I can think of the time she has you accompany her to talk to people in the "Big tough tank" type of role to lend credence to her words to have faith and that things would get better. I haven't finished that yet to see the final fight. Just started melee.

I do think there are some links to the roles, but they can definitely make that clearer and more defined in the future if they want to continue this route.

I've only done melee so far and saw absolutely no reason I needed to be melee beyond it being convenient setup for the characters involved. It felt more like a leadership sim than anything, which honestly felt like it'd work more for a tank, but I also haven't done the tank quest yet so. Take that as you will.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

I've only done melee so far and saw absolutely no reason I needed to be melee beyond it being convenient setup for the characters involved. It felt more like a leadership sim than anything, which honestly felt like it'd work more for a tank, but I also haven't done the tank quest yet so. Take that as you will.

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Yeah I think you only even fight anything in like two of the melee DPS role quests.

They make a degree of sense if you think about the class and job guilds in each of the city-states. Gridania has no tanks, Ul'dah and Ala Mhigo have no healers, Limsa has no publicly acknowledged melee (the Rogues' Guild is an open secret, everyone knows but they're still more of a black ops group), and Ishgard has no casters. They're looking to fill in the missing gap in the party. Doma just kinda gets the last leftover role.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

They make a degree of sense if you think about the class and job guilds in each of the city-states. Gridania has no tanks, Ul'dah and Ala Mhigo have no healers, Limsa has no publicly acknowledged melee (the Rogues' Guild is an open secret, everyone knows but they're still more of a black ops group), and Ishgard has no casters. They're looking to fill in the missing gap in the party. Doma just kinda gets the last leftover role.

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Doma is also lacking healers until the very last quest, which I have to say is a very good fit for you-know-who.

Also the healer one was pretty engaging with another troubled NPC and it gives some much needed character development.

Part of me has to wonder if they're setting up the new crop of Trusts for 7.0 and the saga that comes with it.

Yes, I also felt that save for some very specific scenes these role quests have barely any reason to be locked to a role.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

well the ranged physical role quest specifically has a blasphemy that can fly and is pretty speedy so they wanted someone for their ranged attack ability.

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It says so on the description banner of the initial quest, but it's barely brought up during the actual questline. Not to mention in the actual battle with the blasphemy...

...you fight it at ground level, along with some melee npcs hitting it next to you. In a closed space. And no, we didn't do anythng to "bring it down" either. Your contribution as a ranged dps is "being able to use interrupts". It could have perfectly been a tank quest.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

and Ishgard has no casters.

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Just because they don't have some guilds open for us to train in their disciplines doesn't mean they don't have those roles within their ranks. And the jobs that ARE open to us are very... "peculiar" within their society. There's plenty of casters in Ishgard. You can go do The Vault sometime if you need a refresher. And don't forget Ser Charizard.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

Part of me has to wonder if they're setting up the new crop of Trusts for 7.0 and the saga that comes with it.

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Ranged quest especially felt that way.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The point of role quests is a "brush up" on your responsibilities as that role. Tanks gotta tank, healers gotta heal and cleanse, DPS gotta damage and interrupt and do mechanics.

The stories are nice little additions to characters we got involved with long ago.

The story is there to make the brush up interesting, not for the purpose of being a story for that particular role.

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The final duty that require all that happen at max level. Requesting diferent roles is just an excuse to promote leveling.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

The final duty that require all that happen at max level. Requesting diferent roles is just an excuse to promote leveling.

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Well.. considering you can get to max level without having to DO any of that.. I don't think it's that farfetched linking them to "hey remember you're supposed to do these things".

The bigger question is: "Why do people turn into End Beasts in the role quests, if there's like a 99% chance you've finished the MSQ before doing any of them?"

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Originally Posted by Jennah

The bigger question is: "Why do people turn into End Beasts in the role quests, if there's like a 99% chance you've finished the MSQ before doing any of them?"

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Because the main blasphemies have already turned, and the presence of the main ones can still turn people into lesser blasphemies. Side quests technically happen when they unlock, not when you actually do them. Otherwise no one could go into Heavensward without first completing the ARR dragoon quests, which introduce Estinien and the Eye.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Side quests technically happen when they unlock, not when you actually do them.

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Depends on the quest. They're often open to have happened in pretty much any period of time, a big exception being the time during this expansion because some class/job npcs and their activities got involved more directly on the story. But most quests involving the war with the dragons do seem to have happened "3 expansions ago, not in the present".

And then there's the lvl 50 Culinarian quest, which involves a certain character who may or may not be around when you do it.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Otherwise no one could go into Heavensward without first completing the ARR dragoon quests, which introduce Estinien and the Eye.

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With Estinien his introductory cutscene in the MSQ changed depending on if you already know him or not. They explain to you about him and the eye on the spot. It's not something "you couldn't have lived with" if you missed the DRG story.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Because the main blasphemies have already turned, and the presence of the main ones can still turn people into lesser blasphemies.

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I was wondering about this same thing, how could people turn after the MSQ was done, but your explanation does make sense. I guess they can behave like sin eaters (to make others turn forceably) and through the way dynamis and the transformation worked they could be affecting their nearby environment.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The point of role quests is a "brush up" on your responsibilities as that role. Tanks gotta tank, healers gotta heal and cleanse, DPS gotta damage and interrupt and do mechanics.

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The thing is, anyone could do any of the roles.
(Spoilers for all of them):

Why should a melee lead the Company of Heroes? Wouldn't someone at range make more sense, since that's what they rather explicitly state in the quest with the previous captain? Or how about a healer since their only healer is Brayflox throwing restorative cheese at you. Maybe a tank to lead the charge?
-How about the big Sahagin mutant thingy has an impentrable, constantly-shifting shield, and only someone getting up close and inside can possibly damage the moving weak spots (like positionals) can bring down its defenses?
Why do you need a ranged physical to deal with the Doman one? Sure it flies, but the one time it flying quickly actually comes up in the story, it flies away anyway. When it comes time to fight it lands and just sits there. Also wouldn't a healer be handy for the Samurai and Ninja, or a tank to hold it still? What about some magic firepower, since magic is equally capable of taking out targets at range? Or hell, go all-in on the melee thing when the monster lands and just pummel it into the dirt with the three of you.
-Maybe give it targetable wings that need to be shot at range, something Hien and Yugiri can't do? Like the Sohm Al boss, except high in the air.
Why do you need to be a tank to tank the instant-kill poison monster? Or, rather, why WOULD you bring a tank to that? Wouldn't a ranged physical or a caster make more sense so as to stay away from the mega-painful 100% death poison monster? Or maybe a healer to help soothe the effects of it and attack at range? Or heck, a dodgier melee character who can dance around the beast and avoid his strikes makes as much sense too.
-Maybe just make this guy super-duper brutal and wild, and only an immovable tank can hope to keep this thing still long enough for the Wood Wailers to deal with it.
Why do you need to be a mage to fight the Ishgard dragon? The only thing a mage even kinda makes sense for is that the dragon is flying, and much like with the ranged physical the boss just lands and you deal with him on the floor anyway. So why not a healer to backup the knights, or a melee to help bring down a dragon (like Dragoons have been doing forever?) Or heck, a tank to hold the big monster's wrath?
-Why not say the dragon is super-resistant to physical strikes and their Dragonkillers and archers are ineffective, since Ishgard is supposed to be really good at killing dragons.
Why do you need to be a healer to help Fordola through her emotional problems? Sure the fight at the end is Fordola+Raubahn and a healer is handy, but some DPS would be handy too, or a tank to let the two of them go to town on the big thing.
-Maybe give THIS guy a poison effect or something, to fit in with the idea that the Blasphemy really doesn't want to hurt anyone but kills by its mere presence; therefore you need a healer present else Fordola will sacrifice herself trying to bring it down alone.

With just the tiniest of tweaks they could have changed any of the quests into anything else role-wise and it would have made just as much, or in the tank case more, sense. Or just tweak the quest to make it fit the role more.

I like all the quests though. The fights are fun and seeing the story continuing in all these places is nice.

Yeeh, if anything they should have incorporated scenes where we actually get to fight with our weapons in cutscenes rather than standing and stare.

Examples being us shooting something out the sky as ranged or jump in and visibly block an attack as tank.

They had role quests in Endwalker because they had role quests in Shadowbringers. But it seems like they decided to not make them important to the roles, and instead just made them for a premise for why you'd go to each city. They only exist so you have a reason to go on a gpose date with Aymeric, or walk around Yugiri's hometown and meet her parents. They're more "old NPC" quests than role quests. But they exist as role quests because somebody wrote "role quests" on the to-do list and they got made that way.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They had role quests in Endwalker because they had role quests in Shadowbringers. But it seems like they decided to not make them important to the roles, and instead just made them for a premise for why you'd go to each city. They only exist so you have a reason to go on a gpose date with Aymeric, or walk around Yugiri's hometown and meet her parents. They're more "old NPC" quests than role quests. But they exist as role quests because somebody wrote "role quests" on the to-do list and they got made that way.

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They're companions to the most recent Rising stories. All the EW roles quests focus on the same characters, and cover some of the same history as Tales from the Twilight.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

The thing is, anyone could do any of the roles.
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Isn't that what I said though? They're just quick brush ups and story asides. As someone said above, role quests were on the checklist. Yeah they probably could have been done a lot better and more "relevant" to their role, but it seems they were just there to be there and unlock something.

I'm not saying they're masterpieces or even well done. Just.. "hey, member you supposed to do these things OK?".

Yeah, the role quests are bad and just not very fun to do as a whole. At the moment I have done 4 out of 5 roles quests and I regret feeling joy of doing them all once I leveled the appropriate job. If there is something to say, is the lack of seeing the creature till the last 2 quests. In the form of facing the creature I mean, there is no reason we couldn't face these monsters at the beginning with something to show how great of a threat they are.

Ala Mhigo- I can't believe I am saying this, but so far the only one that made sense and was somewhat fun. The quest still suffers from no engagement of the monster till the final quest. Fordola needed a closure arc and I am glad she got it here.
Doma- Why does this monster run away? If I can't imagine a sin eater run away, with a similar mentality, why would this creature? Also why is the regret of this quest line about Yotsuyu? She's dead, was killed by the WoL. "Didn't bring her to justice!" Yeah okay, so if she wasn't dead and brought to "justice" then what would you do..Oh, kill her? Is your regret that you didn't get to see the life fade from her eyes? Jesus are the Domans monsters.
Limsa- So how did the Sahagin despair instigator survive for so long? I liked we gave "commands" to help in the quest, but did that need to be melee dps? Then the former leader wasn't even a melee dps but ranged physical. This whole quest was half a retelling of a story we already knew about, so we didn't need to hear it again.
Gridania- The one I wanted to do first ended up being one of the worst to play. The only time your WoL does anything that can be considered as a front line defender isn't until the final fight, until then it is just giving any potential threat a very mean stare. Could the script writer just tell the animator to put us in between civilians and the monsters during cutscenes?

The msq builds up the idea that the Blasphemies are dangerous. They don't hesitate to attack anything in striking distance and have no remorse in doing so. Your son, father, friend transformed will not hesitate to kill those closest to them. Their yells of regret are, were, supposed to be just illusions of the person they once were. Yet the role quest is filled with Blasphemes that just beat around the bush every single time. The role quest Blasphemes break character to tell a story, a very bad story.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

Also why is the regret of this quest line about Yotsuyu? She's dead, was killed by the WoL. "Didn't bring her to justice!" Yeah okay, so if she wasn't dead and brought to "justice" then what would you do..Oh, kill her? Is your regret that you didn't get to see the life fade from her eyes? Jesus are the Domans monsters.

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Yotsuyu wasn't punished for her crimes. Yeah, she'd dead now, but there was no closure for her victims. From their perspective she got off clean and went free with no repercussions.

Imagine if someone murdered your whole family, got arrested, and went free on a technicality. Even if the murderer died shortly after you'd still probably feel like you were cheated. That justice wasn't done. That's what the people of Doma are going through, and who can blame them?

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Yotsuyu wasn't punished for her crimes. Yeah, she'd dead now, but there was no closure for her victims. From their perspective she got off clean and went free with no repercussions.

Imagine if someone murdered your whole family, got arrested, and went free on a technicality. Even if the murderer died shortly after you'd still probably feel like you were cheated. That justice wasn't done. That's what the people of Doma are going through, and who can blame them?

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She didn't go free at all that's the point. Yotsuyu didn't die of old age, didn't die from a heart attack or some other natural cause: Earthquake, drowning, a stroke, depression, etc. She was killed by the WoL, plain and simple. Now if we use your analogy of the murderer went free after being arrested. You then watch a news report, a week later, of that murderer getting stabbed to death from breaking and entering a home. You don't think "Just deserts"? If you want more then that for the murderer being killed as a monster, that says more about the individual then it says about Yotsuyu. (Not saying yourself Bright, saying it to the domans cause they are monsters)

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

She didn't go free at all that's the point. Yotsuyu didn't die of old age, didn't die from a heart attack or some other natural cause: Earthquake, drowning, a stroke, depression, etc. She was killed by the WoL, plain and simple. Now if we use your analogy of the murderer went free after being arrested. You then watch a news report, a week later, of that murderer getting stabbed to death from breaking and entering a home. You don't think "Just deserts"? If you want more then that for the murderer being killed as a monster, that says more about the individual then it says about Yotsuyu. (Not saying yourself Bright, saying it to the domans cause they are monsters)

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To further this, she had a chance to go free and get a fresh start. But she couldn't live with that. Her life was full of hatred and she couldn't let it go.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

well the ranged physical role quest specifically has a blasphemy that can fly and is pretty speedy so they wanted someone for their ranged attack ability.

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Lorewise yeah but in the end that only translated to using interrupts :p

I actually kinda found it funny tbh. Whenever the boss did anything an NPC would say something like "It looks like it's preparing something big! Perhaps if you were to land a grazing shot to distract it?" All I could think was, why just graze it, why not shoot it between the eyes? That should be distracting enough and do some permanent damage, too :p

Still, I quite enjoyed the role quests. Did them all before even finishing the MSQ, enjoyed working alongside old NPCs and all that. Functionally I'll just call them what they are, though. Incentive for players to level at least one of each role.