Why NOT allow PvP's Combo-actions to be used in PvE?

I don't know how many players opt to use a controller over kb&m, but I'm certainly one of them. As such, hotkeys are EXTREMELY valuable real estate, which sometimes means having to ask yourself "what actions can I afford to live without?", at least at a moment's notice.

The DRK, I've managed to play without any real issue, and even the Reaper I haven't felt like I had to make any particular sacrifice just yet. However, I've been leveling PLD recently, and I honestly feel kind of overwhelmed with how many actions I have to keep track of and regularly apply.

If I could even just consolidate their basic single-target and AoE combo's into single buttons, though -- which is already done in PvP -- ...man, it would be a WHOLE lot easier to keep everything easily bound to my three core bars (I know you can technically make L2+R2 and R2+L2 into two different bars, but it just feels unnatural to me).

I mostly just wonder, is there a compelling reason NOT to allow those rotating abilities? They're mostly "filler" abilities anyways, it just seems like it would make it a bit easier to add more complexity to jobs via long-cooldown abilities.

no pls I dont want to play with only 3 buttons like WoW, even League of Legends has more skills than WoW now

They should, but some people think "Messing up 1-2-3" is something people actually do more than once a month or something, and so they have attached themselves to this idea that having 1/2/3 combos makes a job "harder".

I wouldn't mind a toggle for the people that want it. Hell even I might use it lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

no pls I dont want to play with only 3 buttons like WoW, even League of Legends has more skill than WoW now

---

Or you could have your three buttons and they can also make a combo button and people can choose which to use.

I mean we should have had both options years ago, but people are dumb and turn these things into all or nothing fights for 'my way only.'

You are going to have to have different buttons for different combos. Just off the top of my head, SAM and MNK both have their ST combo start with same action, but have two different rotations.

To me, they could accomplish the same by allowing a new macro sequential feature; allowing groups of GCD spells to be fired off sequentially with each button press.

To stop abuse, only GCD spells which potentially have combos should be able to be fired sequentially, otherwise they work as now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terin

(I know you can technically make L2+R2 and R2+L2 into two different bars, but it just feels unnatural to me).

---

For me, my crossbars for single target and mainly focused around R2, L2 and R2>L2 I save L2>R2 for AoE and rarely used actions. Whether you do that or not is your choice, however I would suggest getting used to having a whole extra crossbar for more actions. You also have swapping with the R1 tap (whilst not holding anything) or swapping by holding down R1 and pressing the corresponding button. I don't use these as I dont find them responsive enough for my play, but it is an option. There is also the W Crossbars, the only things I have there are LB and Sprint, but again, some people do make good use of them.

As for Paladin actions to drop, the only ones I can suggest are Shield Bash and Cover. Shield Bash is obvious, you have Low Blow which is more than enough to handle the vast majority of scenarios. Cover is very very niche in it's uses, and even then, you can only really plan out it's uses. Most of the time, you are probably better off throwing an Intervention doe the damage mitigation and regen.

I vote that we get the mythical JP button in XI. With that one button we get the following:

Defeat any monster instantly.
Make any craft result in a HQ.
Make any monster drop every single potential item they can, and then some more items.

Also, make all dungeon bosses or ultimate targets sit there like a statue until we JP button it and get all the loot.

I think this is a great idea and would drive participation rates through the roof!! Our 1% clearance for ultimate and 8% for savage? Not anymore, more like 101% and 108%!!!

/s For anyone who needs it

My personal issue with it is that they have spent the last 6 years making the game simpler already and people keep asking for even more simplification on top of that. Where does it stop? Does it stop at the silly idea I just posted?

When I first played this game I messed around with macros to facility easier play cause I absolutely hate and still hate the combo system but macros are useless in this game as they strip away any usefulness of a macro in this game intentionally with the que thing. When I went in to PVP and saw that they literally have PVP combos and was like why cant we do this in PVE? We got single target combos, aoe combos, and combos within combos. Can I please just get the burger with no drink and fries?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

no pls I dont want to play with only 3 buttons like WoW, even League of Legends has more skill than WoW now

---

So skill determines how many buttons you have to press interesting...

Those combo buttons in PvP are the primary reason I don't play FFXIV's PvP.

That'd be a very fast way to get me to quit FFXIV.

I like a small set of actions in action based hit-scan style gaming like a first person shooter, or Elder Scrolls Online, and somewhat Guild Wars 2.

But in a tab target system I need something else to keep me engaged. Combine a very small list of actions with a low-engagement combat system and you get boredom.

One button spam gameplay is a heavily criticized aspect of pretty much every single job they've implemented it on. No thanks.

Screw it, lets just turn the game into an auto combat mobile game.
You press one button and it plays itself.

We can't allow players to fail now can we?
Henceforth you can only win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolades

So skill determines how many buttons you have to press interesting...

---

Not on its own.
But chances are that if a Job takes 20 buttons to play in single-target it's going to be more difficult than one that takes 9.

I'd say frequency matters a lot too, one of the reasons why Reaper is so easy for example is that you spend so much time pressing 1 2 3 and can even keep doing it even when you've got Gauge spenders available so long as you don't overcap.
Reaper having less buttons to press and less frequently is absolutely one of the reasons why it's arguably the easiest DPS in the game.
It's not the only reason but it's a contributor.

Same with the story when you play as NPC's, if you increased the buttons by separating the combo actions like it is normally it'd inherently increase the difficulty.
Pressing three buttons is harder than pressing one, and it's also more involved and less monotonous.
Playing the NPC's is a pain and so is PvP long-term I can only stomach it for so long.

I was just telling my friend about this!! I want the combo button like in PVP. Seriously, my action bar is so full and I refuse to add in more hot keys.

Can we have this as an option as least? Just so I can trim down my action bar so it looks neater.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Screw it, lets just turn the game into an auto combat mobile game.
You press one button and it plays itself.

We can't allow players to fail now can we?
Henceforth you can only win.



Not on its own.
But chances are that if a Job takes 20 buttons to play in single-target it's going to be more difficult than one that takes 9.

I'd say frequency matters a lot too, one of the reasons why Reaper is so easy for example is that you spend so much time pressing 1 2 3 and can even keep doing it even when you've got Gauge spenders available so long as you don't overcap.
Reaper having less buttons to press and less frequently is absolutely one of the reasons why it's arguably the easiest DPS in the game.
It's not the only reason but it's a contributor.

Same with the story when you play as NPC's, if you increased the buttons by separating the combo actions like it is normally it'd inherently increase the difficulty.
Pressing three buttons is harder than pressing one, and it's also more involved and less monotonous.
Playing the NPC's is a pain and so is PvP long-term I can only stomach it for so long.

---

Pretty ridiculous lol. 1/2/3 combos are not the reason why players fail. Every time someone comes along acting like it's soooo hard pressing 1 followed by 2 followed by 3 it just makes me laugh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolades

So skill determines how many buttons you have to press interesting...

---

skills* typo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

I wouldn't mind a toggle for the people that want it. Hell even I might use it lol.

---

Same here and I think it's fine as long as its an option to players. It might also be a nice accessibility feature for some players.

Worry not, this is one of the topic usually show up right after expansion the disappear after Stormblood.
No need to waste your energy on this.
PvE won't get PvP system

That's too bad. PvP combat tends to be more fun. I very much enjoy the PvP combo's all being on one button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

no pls I dont want to play with only 3 buttons like WoW, even League of Legends has more skills than WoW now

---

Tbh I don't think having a combo be on one button or three buttons makes that much of a different skill wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Pretty ridiculous lol. 1/2/3 combos are not the reason why players fail. Every time someone comes along acting like it's soooo hard pressing 1 followed by 2 followed by 3 it just makes me laugh.

---

It has nothing to do with being hard, it's about you being in control of your char's actions. I don't want pressing 111111111 to be the most efficient way to play and basically have the game play itself for me without even having to pay attention to what I'm doing. Healer forums is full of people tired of pressing one button all the time, I suggest you take a look and see what a horrible idea this is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Tbh I don't think having a combo be on one button or three buttons makes that much of a different skill wise.

---

buttons = skills

learn to read

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

It has nothing to do with being hard, it's about you being in control of your char's actions. I don't want pressing 111111111 to be the most efficient way to play and basically have the game play itself for me without even having to pay attention to what I'm doing. Healer forums is full of people tired of pressing one button all the time, I suggest you take a look and see what a horrible idea this is.

---

That’s the beauty of making it optional rather than a permanent change for everyone. What people do with their action bar and buttons is no concern of yours - it won’t affect your gameplay at all. Also, no one would be able to tell if someone’s pressing just 1 button or doing it the old fashioned way of 1, 2 and 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

Healer forums is full of people tired of pressing one button all the time, I suggest you take a look and see what a horrible idea this is.

---

That's more a comment on how little healing there is to do than condensing a 1-2-3. Classes that can benefit from condensing 1-2-3 into one have more than enough other stuff to keep them interested....

And if it's done with macros, then meh, people who think doing something a 2 year old (pressing 1-2-3 over and over) can do requires skill, can still do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

That’s the beauty of making it optional rather than a permanent change for everyone. What people do with their action bar and buttons is no concern of yours - it won’t affect your gameplay at all. Also, no one would be able to tell if someone’s pressing just 1 button or doing it the old fashioned way of 1, 2 and 3.

---

Reading comprehension sent its regards.

Read it again, I don't want the most efficient way to be spamming one button. Why would anyone press 3 buttons if it's more efficient to spam 1? The problem is that is boring. And even more boring would be to pretend it's not an issue and bind three keys to do the exact same thing.

And yes I couldn't care less about what other people do with their action bars, however I do care about how the game legitimize its gameplay and rewards people based on the effort they put into it. And wanting to spam 1 button is not effort, it's lazyness.

Anyway, there is a way to do this if you're on PC. I won't go into details for obvious reasons, but it's out there.

It’s possible if you’re on PC, just do research. I dare to say this is the thing what’s gaining this game a few 100k more continuing subs.

The main flaw from the combo system as is, apart from a hand that starts to ache after 30 min, is that there’s no strategy or thought behind it. It’s 1-2-3, you never hit 2 or 3 initially, because there’s no bonus potency and the additional effect is not applied as well, you never want to skip 2 and go from 1 to 3, it’s stupid and just artificial means to make something look more skillful than it really is.

Ot depends entirely on the job.
For startersn casters don't have 1-2-3 combos, so they don't benefit from this at all.

Then the melee jobs typically have positionals or gauge accumulation tied to their 1-2-3 (which isn't a thing in pvp). You will need to know where you are in your combo in order to react and adapt your rotation reliably. Having some amorphous "combo" button that does a different thing every time you hit it isn't going to work in the long run.
It works in some limited scenarios, like GNBs continuation, but thatsbecause it's easy to count to 3. Try counting to 3 over and over and over again throughout a full 14 minute Trial. How inane is that going to be?

Finally you have a few jobs that just won't workn such as Monk, who's entire shtick is breaking the combo ststem apart with Perfect Balance. It literally needs all of it's buttons to function.

At most I could see this working with:

Ninja (because most of the focus is on the ninjutsu and the only thing you need to track is Aeolian Edge) have two combo buttons, one for AE and one for AC, but the AC combo gives 5s of huton on every GCD instead of 15s on just AC.

Samurai, with three combo buttons, and the 'perfect balance' equivalent skill that allows you to hit any simply sets each combo to it's finisher.

Reaper, because it's 1-2-3 is literally all the same skill with slightly different potencies.

Monk wouldn't work, Dragoon would need a rework to accommodate, and tanks need to track resources and sustain effects (and don't have as many dps skills anyway, don't turn them into 1 button spammers like healers).

Sure no one will drop their 123 combo on a striking dummy but when you are coming back from your burst window after having pressed like 12 other buttons and also have to move for a boss mechanic or two, combos like they work normally demand a bit attention that you'd just allow people to automate away. If we wanna talk about button bloat, sure. There are some bloated actions that could easily be removed, like undraw for example. It makes sense for some combos even like with how gunbreaker's cartridge combo already worked in shb.

The PvP system uses simplified combos because they want the match-determining factor of PvP to be strategy rather than rotation.
The roleplay battles use simplified combos because you can't expect the average player to know how to play all twenty jobs just so they can play a one-off story battle well.

Outside of PvP and outside of roleplay battles, you have the leisure of working out a control scheme and hotbar layout that let you execute your job's rotation well and there need to be some error points somewhere. "But it's not hard to hit 1 2 3." Yeah well the point is you can do it wrong, and some people will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Screw it, lets just turn the game into an auto combat mobile game.
You press one button and it plays itself.

---

The literal only difference on the jobs whose combos are inflexible would be that instead of pressing 123 you'd be pressing 111.
The same amount of button presses. The same result.
You just use your index finger 3 times instead of your index, middle and ring finger 1 time.

2 more spaces freed up on your action bars, with virtually zero impact on gameplay seems like a win to me. They already did it with GNB's Gnashing Fang combo, and life is sweeter for it.

More button spots for more weaves and cds? I'm into it. The difference between good play and bad isn't how well you hit 1-2-3, but how well you can use 1-4-2-5-3-6 (or whatever weave is available to you for the window, without gcd clipping ofc). This would be just as precise with using a pvp combo chain, but probably force you to be more precise. Easier to clip if you're not moving your hand around. I'm thunking about it.

This would flat out wouldn’t work in most kits, for DPS only RPR and MCH have a bare bones 1-2-3 where this makes sense

PVP is what it is because they are minimized versions of the initial kit due to the more frantic gameplay. Asking for the same for PVE is asking for the kits to be butchered

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Menriq

You are going to have to have different buttons for different combos. Just off the top of my head, SAM and MNK both have their ST combo start with same action, but have two different rotations.

---

Aion did this like a decade and a half ago. It's not hard, I'm sure smol NFT indie company here can do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

It has nothing to do with being hard, it's about you being in control of your char's actions. I don't want pressing 111111111 to be the most efficient way to play and basically have the game play itself for me without even having to pay attention to what I'm doing. Healer forums is full of people tired of pressing one button all the time, I suggest you take a look and see what a horrible idea this is.

---

Nobody's saying you should be *forced* to use it. If it makes you feel good about yourself to press 1/2/3 for whatever reason then nobody wants to take that away from you. What we're saying is it would be nice for people who have no particular attachment to 1/2/3 combos to be able to condense them into one button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

buttons = skills

learn to read

---

Shots fired!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Nobody's saying you should be *forced* to use it. If it makes you feel good about yourself to press 1/2/3 for whatever reason then nobody wants to take that away from you. What we're saying is it would be nice for people who have no particular attachment to 1/2/3 combos to be able to condense them into one button.




Shots fired!!

---

Forgetting the fact only tanks and like 1/2 DPS really have a 1/2/3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

Forgetting the fact only tanks and like 1/2 DPS really have a 1/2/3

---

The majority of others are already 1-1-1-1 with some sort of proc set so it's not really a fair argument against.

I much rather they turn combos into a 1 key press and every job gets new oGCD skills next expansion, than the current practice of just upgrading old skills because they want to avoid keybind bloat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Nobody's saying you should be *forced* to use it. If it makes you feel good about yourself to press 1/2/3 for whatever reason then nobody wants to take that away from you. What we're saying is it would be nice for people who have no particular attachment to 1/2/3 combos to be able to condense them into one button.

---

Feel good about myself? Please, don't patronize me.

What you consider disatachment, I consider dull. I don't want actions to feel redundant in-game, otherwise why have different actions at all? Why have combos to begin with? Just spam one button to win.
Also what's with all this talk about "1-2-3 is not hard why do you care?". Exactly, but I'm not the one wanting to make it even more effortless. If anything, I should be the one saying this to you.