Love the job but I'm BARELY at lvl 81 and I can already see that astro has issues.....
Draw:
We got two charges of draw (which is fine) but I still don't understand why I have to press another button to use it. Just put it on the same button....I dont know an ast that's going to overwrite their cards with another draw....that's what we call a dps loss. Ill get to the symbols in a bit.
Minor Arcana: (not sure if this one is just me)
Personally, I rather have the shadowbringer minor arcanas. This way I don't have to read each card I draw to see whether or not its a ranged or melee card. If we're going to keep minor as it is, can we PLZ just get a minor every 2 cards but on 1 button...I seriously do not want another card system but on a minute cd to deal with because that's basically what it is.
Astrodyne: (sorry dev team this is my biggest gripe and how I would fix it)
WHY DID YALL NOT JUST REMOVE THE SYMBOLS! If y'all didn't like it on divination WHAT MADE YALL THINK YALL WOULD LIKE IT ON ANOTHER BUTTON. Also, I didn't know that people wanted ast to be faster, I can barely weave 1 off-global with the cast time as it is. If y'all truly wanted ast to be faster just leave astrodyne as another mana regen and just upgrade divination to give us the self buffs on there since thats dps time. LOVE THE ANIMATION BTW.
Again, this is at level 81. This isn't even including the extra charge of celestial intersection, exaltation, and macrocosmos. There's just too many off globals to be worrying about while dpsing/healing.
Yikes Astro has issues
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12-28-2021, 02:21 AMTheWiseYikes Astro has issues
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12-28-2021, 02:43 AMAnhra
The idea behind Astrodye in itself is pretty good. The only stupid thing about it, is how it was executed. It should grant only ONE of the effects depending on which symbols you use, as well as being allowed to use it on party members, that would have made the Skill alot more interesting.
I agree with you on the new Minor Arcana. It only exists because Squeenix knows that if they kept it the way it was in ShB, People would spam Lord of Crowns as often as they possibly could, thus limiting it the way it is now. It serves ONLY as a restriction of the Job which only shows how incompetent the People who design the Jobs in this game are (at least, on the matter of Healers and Tanks). -
12-28-2021, 02:46 AMglamazon
Draw is fine. Redraw is fine. It’s like some people just have to have all three seals no matter what and they system is not designed that way. It’s supposed to be rng. If you want to sacrifice giving someone a card just so you can have your 5% buff then you can do that but you are hurting your team. Just play the card.
And if draw and play were the same button we lose charges?
Keep minor arcana as is. If anything change undraw to spread which would eat the card giving a buff that extends the next card played to double effect and double duration.
Astodyne is fun but if you have to change it I’d rather have a run speed increase rather than a dps increase -
12-28-2021, 03:15 AMHyoMinPark
Re: Draw / Play
Play was implemented in ShB because ShB removed the 30 second timer on drawn cards, and instead made it to where you could hold them indefinitely. Before, Draw would not reset until after you played your card, resulting in lost casts and lost usages if you were ever having to hold it for a burst or during downtime. All in all, it isn’t a terrible change to allow you to hold indefinitely—but there aren’t many instances where you’d be holding a card for more than 30 seconds anyways without playing it.
That said, I do believe there is a way to program the held cards while also tracking the cooldown for each Draw charge. There are abilities in this game that already track cooldown timers, so I’m sure this could be implemented with regards to the cards themselves (with the timer on Draw shown on the Arcana gauge somewhere) so that we don’t have to have Play as a button at all. Even if they kept the no timer on drawn cards.
I’ve gotten used to Play, but I would be fine with a system where you could have it and Draw consolidated and not lose Draw usages due to strategic holdings of your cards.
Minor Arcana:
I personally don’t mind the change to the (almost) old versions of Lord/Lady. That said, I don’t like Crown Play, and I would like MA to function like I described above: where you don’t need a second button to deploy the card, but instead can use MA again to use it.
I think AST is reaching a problem with having way too many buttons compared to the other healers, so finding ways to consolidate some of the more superfluous ones would be amazing.
Astrodyne:
I don’t like Astrodyne. At all.
It exists purely to keep the seal mechanic relevant. And the seals exist purely to keep 4 out of 6 of the cards relevant since the changes to them in ShB. I feel like the issues with Astrodyne could be somewhat alleviated if Clarifying Draw could guarantee you didn’t Redraw the same seal as the one you are attempting to shuffle—the amount of times I’m holding a sun seal and Redraw to get another sun seal annoys the crap out of me (and this applies for all three seals). At least that way, you could maybe guarantee more of the 2/3 seal buffs versus getting so many where you just have 1/3. If the developers are really that attached to the seals, I would have rather them been on Divination and kept my 3 charges of Redraw. I don’t know if the intent was to bring back “buff flavor” that the job had pre-ShB; but this isn’t really what ASTs that liked the old card system were asking for, in my opinion. -
12-28-2021, 05:02 AMSebazy
It suffers from the same issue as SCH, just to a lesser extent IMHO.
Lots of janky systems all thrown in a box and shook a bit.
AST's kit doesn't clash with itself in the same way SCH does, but it's hardly a harmonious whole. Just a bunch of oGCDs to rotate in whatever order and busywork by the way of weak buffs.
Granted, at least I am enjoying playing it.
Turns out there is a way to have Draw/Play and Minor Arcana both on a single button each and it's an absolute revelation. Please pull your fingers out and implement this yourselves SE =( -
12-28-2021, 05:12 AMRinaShinomiya
The funny thing about this AST is that you don't even need top be level 90 to realize the job has issues. All of the issues are visible as soon as you swap into your level 70 AST and start doing fates with your chocobo. Don't even have to do dungeons or any trials or raids, just doing fates is enough. Who ever playtested healers prior to ENW, if that person even exists, really was slacking.
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12-29-2021, 11:16 AMMiziliti
Also Macrocosmos is hot garbage. there is no auto detonation like Earthly Star and the improved horoscope. I just goes into cool down if you don't use it again.
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12-29-2021, 01:02 PMrewdQuote:
Originally Posted by Miziliti
Horoscope also has an auto detonation regardless of its version.Quote:
Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 250 for the first enemy, and 40% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Grants Macrocosmos to self and all nearby party members
Duration: 15s
Action changes to Microcosmos upon execution.
For the effect's duration, 50% of damage taken is compiled.
Restores HP equal to a cure of 200 potency plus compiled damage when the effect expires or upon execution of Microcosmos.
Amount restored cannot exceed the target's maximum HP.
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12-29-2021, 08:08 PMSebazy
The only issue I personally have with Horoscope is that it can be a bit of a pig to queue after a malefic and with reduced effects it's very subtle, on more than a few occasions I've simply pressed it too soon, it's not gone off and I've just not noticed. The best thing I've found is to watch for the scrolling text for it rather than looking for the sound/animation TBH.
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12-29-2021, 09:29 PMRein_eon_OsborneNo...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miziliti
You may don't do the twirl animation like when you 'detonate' it early, but the heal still happens. It would be awkward if the game forces you to do the twirling and possibly interrupting actions. -
12-29-2021, 10:35 PMNicodemus_MercyIf it helps, you can macro Draw and Play into one button. That's what I do, with Play as a mouseover so I can apply the card to someone easily through the party list with a keybind. It certainly makes it much easier for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWise
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12-30-2021, 05:13 AMAverax
You can macro draw/play and minor arcana/crown play together into single button presses.
Macros are weird if you're desperately trying to min/max so you might clip a little, but other than that they work just fine.
Astro's got button bloat, but it can be managed with macro's pretty well. -
12-30-2021, 05:25 AMQooErif macros in this game were actually responsive and good, then i would agree. but having to pick between actions being unreliable or having a hotbar full of redundant actions is the very last thing i would call good designQuote:
Originally Posted by Averax
that said, i dont struggle with button bloat too much because i know i dont need benefic1 and undraw, so thats 2 free slots in the hotbar.
i really wish they got rid of benefic 1 and just upgraded to benefic 2... both have the same cast time, the same mp:heal ratio, and enhanced benefic's 15% proc rate is functionally the same chance as just critting benefic ii. theres no reason to ever use benefic 1 when not level synced since aspected benefic heals 3x more for the exact same mp anyways. -
01-01-2022, 07:33 AMSylvantMy desire to nitpick this statement (since they're not 1:1) is ever growing...Quote:
Originally Posted by QooEr
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01-02-2022, 01:09 AMIllyaPrisma
I dislike Astrodyne as well. Without Astrodyne, there would be no reason to have Seals. Without Seals, there is no reason to have 4 out of the 6 cards. I personally feel like it's time to let the Seal system die and allow 6 unique utility options with each card.
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01-02-2022, 02:18 AMrewdImho a fun way to change the system would be the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
- Cards are still DPS boosts
- Seals have different utility. Could be MP regen, Damage reduction, healing received increased etc.
- Astrodyne still exists and it's a buff you can use on any party member. Its effect is determined by the seal you are currently holding
- Redraw has two charges and it cycles through the seals you currently don't have
- Lord of Crowns can extend Astrodyne to party members and Lady of Crowns can double its effect. A no annoying RNG version can allow to redraw and get the other MA
Just a thought. I think it would be a neat idea to reintroduce some old concepts (utility ad Royal Road) without DPS being in the way (Balance being better than the other cards, Lord being better than Lady etc.) -
01-02-2022, 03:35 AMRinaShinomiyaHoneslty if Astrodyne was able to be applied on a party member i'd like that system a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
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01-03-2022, 10:11 PMXasapisRanged cards are purple.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWise
Melee cards are blue. -
01-03-2022, 10:25 PMHyoMinParkAnother way to think of it if you’re familiar with the old card system:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasapis
Melee cards = offensive cards (Balance, Spear, Arrow)
Ranged cards = utility cards (Bole, Spire, Ewer)
But the borders will work better for someone who didn’t play pre-5.0 AST. -
01-03-2022, 10:27 PMXasapisUsed to remember them when they had value. Now the colour visual cue is the only thing needed really.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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01-03-2022, 10:36 PMHyoMinParkSame. I’ll always miss those days. Now they cling to relevance only by the stupid seal—which also are now clinging to relevance via Astrodyne. I don’t think I’ll ever not be a salty former AST….Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasapis
And indeed. But sometimes people think of things/look at things a bit differently, so always nice to have a different “option” to look at them. -
01-03-2022, 10:55 PMPayadopa
Why are some people so hell bent on making AST as boring as the other healers? If you don't like RNG there are three other healers that don't have it? I don't want to use Draw 3 times and be guaranteed all 3 seals. I actually like that aspect since it keeps things more interesting. I'm also happy Lord and Lady are back even though I really don't like it's 2 buttons.
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01-03-2022, 11:03 PMHyoMinParkI think you misunderstand. AST RNG has always had some way of managing/mitigating it. In HW, it was Redraw and Royal Road to boost effects of a card in your Spread—take those crappy cards you don’t need and turn them into something better. In SB, they added Minor Arcana so that all those Spires you got that you didn’t need an AOE Royal Road for could be put to something better (a free oGCD heal for the tank or a damage card). ShB gave us 3 Redraw charges to (hopefully) give us the final seal we needed for a 3-seal Diviniation; and, if all else failed, the revamped Lord/Lady at least let you play the card as a single-target buff. With the addition of a second stack of ED, RNG Lady being a single-target heal became less valuable compared to SB, where you didn’t have 2 stacks of, quite frankly, the best healer oGCD in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
Astrodyne doesn’t have any RNG mitigation—Clarifying Draw doesn’t even ensure you can draw a different seal to try and get a 2-seal Astrodyne, and you can only use it once. You get what you get, sorry you’re stuck with a crappy (MP) buff (that you don’t even need anyways because ASTs are a well of bottomless mana unless things are getting REALLY REALLY REEEEEEALLY bad), suck it up buttercup lol. Aside from them putting Astrodyne in the game to just keep the dumb seal mechanic relevant in the first place, it’s a horribly designed skill.
Unfortunately, with the buff aspect of it being so incredibly negligible that you can almost ignore it won’t help the developers make it more meaningful. Instead the arguments surrounding it will just shift to “well it’s not even that much of a loss if you don’t get 3 seals so why does it matter if it feels like absolute crap to use”. When you have an ability that feels like crap to use or has zero impact when you do use it, it’s bad design. While Astrodyne isn’t nearly as pointless as the SB lily system, I personally put it around that level in terms of design brilliance. -
01-03-2022, 11:15 PMRinaShinomiyaNobody wants 3 seal after 3 draws but drawing the same seal you already have in your hand with Redraw is just dumb. I wouldnt mind if redraw could give one of the seals i already have i just dont wanna redraw in a Bole from a Balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
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01-03-2022, 11:48 PMRilifaneOn the contrary: it's not about making AST boring but rewarding and interesting to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
Lord/ Lady are two buttons for a boring mini nuke or party heal you'll likely never need because AST is a nuclear heal bomb without it.
Astrodyne's buffs are so negligible that it's not even noticable if you ignore it because AST is the healer that worries least about MP unless they need to chainress multiple times in a fight and the gigabrain skill to deal with RNG is "reroll and be stuck with whatever you got" while the dps gain at 2 or even the elusive 3 seals is still so low you lose more dps by clipping your dot by tick a few times.
I found ShB AST with old Sleeve Draw more interesting and rewarding to play because I had more ways to manipulate RNG and had the choice to Lord/ Lady a card I didn't need for seals or that would destroy my seal setup and possibly align it with the burst of a dps. And ShB AST wasn't the pinnacle of healer design either.
You don't have any halfway decent way to make use of what you got, it's just "press and deal with whatever you got without options, enjoy". ShB already stripped down the options to use cards by a lot and it still had more options than EW AST. That's saying something. -
01-03-2022, 11:50 PMLiam_HarperBecause if you have very little influence over something, you can pretty much ignore it. Astrodyne can just be treated as mana + a small self buff. Once or twice a fight it procs a slightly bigger self-buff that has no noticeable impact whatsoever. What you find "interesting" is the visual slot machine flavor even though it doesn't do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
When you have 3 redraw and need to align your seals, the player actually has to interact with the mechanic of their class. By using your toolkit and paying attention to how your class works you're rewarded. You can't just ignore that it exists.
Sometimes I feel players like Astrodyne and MA because it removes the accountability from their hands. It doesn't matter if they screw up, get lucky, get unlucky, get 1 seal, get 3 seals, roll extra Lady's, it's not their fault, it's RNG's fault and it's of such little consequence anyway it won't impact their performance that much. Then they can wrap themselves in delusion and feel like they're playing well by healing with a Lady instead of their numerous other oGCD's, or landing a 3 seal.
But I've grumbled about AST cards enough and I honestly don't feel the developers are capable of making an interactive, balanced and rewarding system. At this stage I'd just settle for rolling Draw/Play and MA/Crown play into single buttons. -
01-04-2022, 12:01 AMPayadopa
I'm not a big fan of the seals in general but I think it's better than what we had in ShB. If it were up to me I'd bring back the old SB system. All this fishing business didn't affect me, but here we are.
And as far as Astrodyne is concerned, to me it feels more like SE is throwing us a bone to keep a semblance of what AST used to be. Still a bit on the shallow side but, again, better than ShB's version.
With that being said, AST's MP generation needs to severely nerfed, I'm sorry. lol
What even is the point of an MP bar if I never go below 90% unless I go out of my wait to spam heals or raise.
All things considered the current AST is as good as it's gonna get with SE's narrow mindset. I don't want to say I'm super happy about the changes but I'm glad they gave it at least some flavour back, if that makes sense. -
01-04-2022, 12:02 AMPayadopaMan, that would be amazing. One can always dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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01-04-2022, 12:12 AMTheWiseRNG is not the issue...its juggling symbols, playing yugioh like a mad man (2-3x the speed of shb ast), healing/dpsing, dealing with mechanics, and CLIPPING LIKE A MAD MAN because sometimes just doing offglobals is the better optionQuote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
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01-04-2022, 12:12 AMHyoMinParkFan of the pre-ShB AST cards aside, there was still a measure of “fishing” involved—but really only at the super high levels of play where AOE Balance was God and others were just subpar. I can recognize that, at the very least. HOWEVER. I still preferred the card flavor over what we got in ShB, and I’ll never be able to deny that. Even if it’s just me being an AST boomer or whatever kids these days would call someone like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
That said, I liked the busy aspect of ShB AST cards only because there was just this immense satisfaction of pulling off that ridiculous opener with OG ShB Sleeve Draw, and it just felt good. I personally didn’t have much comment on the Sleeve Draw changes in ShB—I took it either way at the end of the day; but I respect the loss of busy-ness/finger gymnastics others missed from it.
I do have to agree with this. I think they were trying to return “buff flavor” to the job, but also kind of ignored what the original buff flavor was that AST offered. It wasn’t about buffing ourselves, but the party when it came to various card effects: AOE Balance, Enhanced or Extended Spear on a BRD/MNK, Enhanced Arrow on a BLM, using that Bole on a tank in a dungeon pull so you had more DPS uptime, holding that Ewer for yourself in case you died because this EX party doesn’t have a physical ranged (so no Refresh) and the BLM is being stingy and won’t Mana Shift you, etc.. That was the buff flavor ASTs like. Not this pointless Astrodyne garbage.Quote:
And as far as Astrodyne is concerned, to me it feels more like SE is throwing us a bone to keep a semblance of what AST used to be. Still a bit on the shallow side but, again, better than ShB's version.
As much disdain as I had for the ShB card system as an AST boomer, I’d rather it over Astrodyne. Even if Divination wasn’t my favorite raid buff.
I would like to see the return of actual mana management. Not to the extent of where you are begging for people to please don’t die because you can’t spare the mana to Raise (ShB AST was like this at times before they added some mana regen to it—I just think they went super overboard there). But we definitely don’t need this bottomless pool of mana where you can ignore the MP bar or throw it off in a corner somewhere because it doesn’t matter. As long as AST isn’t MP negative, that’s all I care about.Quote:
With that being said, AST's MP generation needs to severely nerfed, I'm sorry. lol
What even is the point of an MP bar if I never go below 90% unless I go out of my wait to spam heals or raise.
I just wish Astrodyne’s flavor was meaningful. That the buffs you get from it have virtually no impact just makes it pointless skill bloat on top of other pointless skill bloat the job already has. Make Astrodyne more meaningful and give some sort of RNGesus mitigation, and I’m down for the way it functions. Even if it will just be a shadow of the buff flavor AST once had.Quote:
All things considered the current AST is as good as it's gonna get with SE's narrow mindset. I don't want to say I'm super happy about the changes but I'm glad they gave it at least some flavour back, if that makes sense.
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01-04-2022, 08:14 AMLiam_HarperI think that's the stage many players are at. Fairly certain the Devs can't do any better, not really happy with the changes ...but hey, it has a vague flavor that reminds them of something they used to enjoy, so they'll settle for it. We've given up hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
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01-05-2022, 02:30 PMAvenheitI disagree, this is prob my only grip i have with the class. MA and Crownplay should be the same button. I don't have any more hotkeys available for crown playQuote:
Originally Posted by glamazon
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01-05-2022, 04:29 PMAbsurdityGnB's Gnashing Fang combo already does this. It immediately starts the cooldown when you execute Gnashing Fang and since the change to how long your combos last you can now sit on Wicked Talon for so long that by the time you execute it your Gnashing Fang cooldown has finished, allowing you to execute the combo again immediately. Granted it doesn't show you the remaining cooldown on Gnashing Fang anywhere while you are technically still in your Gnashing Fang combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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01-10-2022, 12:38 PMAvenheit
Minor Arcana and Crown Play should be the same damn button.
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01-10-2022, 03:02 PMArchwizard
I feel like AST's top priority problem is just the sheer volume of buttons it has, many of which don't feel impactful to use because they're just extra knobs for controlling the randomness of its card system... which just gets progressively busier each expansion.
So, a couple thoughts:- Rework the Astrodyne effects. Each seal should have one specific effect attached to it (for instance, Haste on Celestial seals, Refresh on Lunar seals, Potency Up on Solar seals).
For each additional copy of a single seal that you stack, the potency of that one effect given by Astrodyne grows, but with a diminishing return (so 3 of the same seal is only, say, 1.75x as effective rather than 3x). If you have all 3 unique seals, you get the spread of all 3 effects as now; if you have duplicate seals, you get a slightly stronger version of each effect you doubled- or tripled-down on to compensate.
While still retaining the element of randomness and encouraging a spread for best effect, this should provide consolation so that bad RNG strings are no longer a punishment for the player.
- Rework Minor Arcana. Go back to the old system where it transmuted your active Major Arcana into a Crowns card, but have it provide a consistent effect regardless of what card you transmute, or at least have a trait where it does. Something where you don't want to necessarily game Minor Arcana over using Draw effectively, but can use it to safely dump a card you don't want without having to think further on it.
For instance, when you activate Minor Arcana, the cooldown of Draw is reduced by a few seconds, in addition to changing the card and gaining its own effects.- Rework Lady of Crowns specifically, or remove it.
Lord of Crowns is a semi-effective dump card since cards are always being drawn in a combat situation to enhance ongoing damage; if you get Lord during a pull, you dump it immediately without a second thought because oGCD damage is always valuable, even coming from the hands of an Astrologian. The current Lady of Crowns is, instead, ideally held for a scenario where healing is valuable... but its healing potency is so minor and niche so that it won't turn the tide even if you can use it without overhealing, and even in a scenario where all healing is "necessary", it's unreliable to obtain in the first place.
Lady of Crowns' effect should instead be of equal value to Lord's -- which in this case is to say, consistent even if functionally inconsequential.
If this cannot be done without making it the same effect as Lord or creating something players would try to game... then simply scrap Lady. Minor Arcana was made to mitigate the RNG of a 6 Major Arcana system; retaining two outcomes within that mitigation element is already extremely counterproductive. (And then Minor Arcana suddenly has a consistent effect.)
And heck, if Minor Arcana only had one outcome, you could even save an oGCD and just have Minor Arcana activate its effects directly instead of using Play again.
- Whether Lord of Crowns retains the current/original "direct damage" iteration or returns to Shadowbringers' "consolation buff" iteration is... largely irrelevant here and a matter of design preference. I have no objection to the current one staying as-is; personally, I even think having an alternative option that doesn't just tread the same ground as the Major Arcana is an idea with its own potential, even for niche scenarios.
I will say if it does go back to the ShB iteration however, absolutely scrap Lady. Just have one card that gives a flat damage buff regardless of what job you use it on, slightly weaker than if you'd used a specialized Major Arcana but stronger than if you'd used one on the wrong role (so, 4-5%). If you don't have a ranged DPS in your party, choose whether to Minor Arcana away your ranged cards for a better buff on melee.
- Rework Lady of Crowns specifically, or remove it.
- Remove Crown Play and Undraw... and possibly Redraw. With the changes to both Astrodyne and Minor Arcana above, you wouldn't necessarily need Redraw.
Not to mention repeatedly Redrawing just never feels good -- it wastes multiple oGCDs and feels like "RNG just screwed me over... twice." At least when you were discarding via Minor Arcana, you had a fallback.
- Rework the Astrodyne effects. Each seal should have one specific effect attached to it (for instance, Haste on Celestial seals, Refresh on Lunar seals, Potency Up on Solar seals).