SGE is the laziest copy&paste job I've seen in all of video games thus far

My expectations were barely present, and yet SE still manages to disappoint on a massive scale.

On paper it should be a "healing through dealing damage" healer, but in reality you have your default healer damage spammables that apply a tiny single-target HoT, as that is all there is to SGE's gimmick.
You could replace that gimmick with a normal HoT and you'd lose absolutely nothing.

To add insult to injury SGE still got the default healer kit due to being a barrier/WHM hybrid instead of actually being a healer that mainly heals through dealing damage.

And the worst part is the design + UX of Eukrasia: how that went through all of SE's departments in that state blows my mind.
Who though it would be "fun" to be forced to frequently press 1 button to switch 3 abilities with their upgraded versions, of which 2 have to be used frequently as the new resource, Addersting, can only be generated by a barrier being completely used up?


For those that still remember Chloromancer from Rift: it's like your 5-year old cousin was trying to copy your work and SGE is the result.

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

For those that still remember Chloromancer from Rift: it's like your 5-year old cousin was trying to copy your work and SGE is the result.

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Now that you have said this, I can no longer see it any other way. It really is scuffed Chloromancer. Also I miss one-button pvp elementalist.

This game isn't Rift you could just play Rift. Class was great but this game isn't really built for it.

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Originally Posted by EverQuest

This game isn't Rift you could just play Rift. Class was great but this game isn't really built for it.

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Like what?

SGE is built exactly like Chloromancer, but instead of applying a buff to yourself that causes your damage to heal your party/raid you now apply a buff to a single target and said target is healed by your 2 abilities that cause healing by dealing damage, of which 1 has an upgrade/alternate version through Eukrasis.

I completely disagree with you, but to each their own I suppose

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Originally Posted by Kalbunn

I completely disagree with you, but to each their own I suppose

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Humor me and voice your disagreement.

The irony I find in sage is healers wanted more damage abilities because there wasn't enough healing needed and they were spamming their one damage spell for over half the fight. SE's brilliant idea is to then create a healer that heals through that one damage ability therefore making them use it more whilst making their healing spells even less necessary.

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Originally Posted by Vivix

The irony I find in sage is healers wanted more damage abilities because there wasn't enough healing needed and they were spamming their one damage spell for over half the fight. SE's brilliant idea is to then create a healer that heals through that one damage ability therefore making them use it more whilst making their healing spells even less necessary.

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That's more a core issues of how XIV healers are designed: artificially being limited to like a few damaging abilities, 1 single-target, 1 DoT, 1 AoE, in most cases + the overwhelming majority of instance healing requiring little healing output, and if you need to heal it's all based on a very rigid and predetermined roadmap of how and what each boss does.

I could create a far better SGE with like 5min effort:
- If the potency of healer damaging abilities are the constraints then you just create several more damaging abilities, each with less potency, which in sum are roughly equal to the potency right now
- Up the healing potency through dealing damage, as the scope is to have the majority of healing done through dealing damage, with emergency heals/barriers at the ready on off-GCDs/big CDs
- Introduce an actual damage rotation for the healer whose scope is to heal through dealing damage
- Base the generation of Adderstring not on barriers being fully used up, but on actual damage dealt by the SGE

Sage feels fun to play . It almost feels like the plan was to rework SCH with what we now have as Sage but along the way someone decided that it would sell better as a new class to go with the EW expansion

It is fast paced and I love that about it , but the addersting generation tied to the "adlo" being used up is limiting and disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Sage feels fun to play . It almost feels like the plan was to rework SCH with what we now have as Sage but along the way someone decided that it would sell better as a new class to go with the EW expansion

It is fast paced and I love that about it , but the addersting generation tied to the "adlo" being used up is limiting and disappointing.

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SGE is basically a mash up of different classes. It really is what SE wanted SCH to be.

When shb dropped they took away energy drain and after backlash gave it back so with sge they simply made aetherflow a passive and never gave them a damaging skill to dumb it so no complaining. Instead you gotta overheal every 20 seconds.
Fun class though. Enjoying it a lot.

Been going through MSQ on sage, just did the first trial (OMG) and I enjoy it's gameplay so far! I hateee scholar though I think sch is stronger than the sage cant say 100% for sure till 90. The kardia really is a small heal on a par with the fairy at best but, it feels like its more for flavour since if it did more on its own you would just never heal, I woulda liked more than one button to make that heal stronger and for sure more damage and actually make using addersting a dps gain rather than just handy for movement.
They are rather limited with sage in the same way they are for every other healer, they don't want more healing pressure because bad healers cannot keep up, they dont want too much dps pressure for the same reason :D So it is much more boring than it has to be for the sake of those people.

My first reaction to Sage healing while doing an attack spell was.

So your telling me ... I attack ... and a target gets a small heal?
I'm very familiar to this concept as a scholar already lol.

Its basically the same as a fairy spamming embrace honestly.

Sage is especially OP in bozja. You can stack sage's version of dancepartner (i forgot the name) on a person and that person will practically never die if you just keep attacking. Really fun and broken with the right essences.

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Originally Posted by gotaname1

Sage is especially OP in bozja. You can stack sage's version of dancepartner (i forgot the name) on a person and that person will practically never die if you just keep attacking. Really fun and broken with the right essences.

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if people need a healer to heal in bozja you are running with pretty bad people tbh

And to OP, the sage does exactly what they said they do and on paper a dps focused healer sounds fun, but the way group dynamic and dps is balanced that would be an absolute nightmare. expecting that just tells you have no idea how raids are balanced.

I mean, yeah. This shouldn't be news to you. We've known this since the media tour when they showed it off. Sage is just a regular healer that occasionally tosses out a small passive heal.

It was never marketed as a Disc Priest. It has the ability to heal while dealing damage. It doesn't heal based on your damage.

It's just another Glare Mage. We've known this for a while now. You shouldn't have been surprised.

Edit: As for eukrasia, well, people wanted a busier healer. Now you have one. You have to put in more effort and spend more GCD's in order to do the same thing the other healers can do.

Ps. I like that we get Adders Sting from breaking barriers. It adds new strategy to our damage. Shield the Black Mage more to get more damage. Shield the ninja that's having a hard time with mechanics and get rewarded for it. (Although, the damage could be increased on it a bit.)

I like it! But yeah I would love to see more focus put on the Kardia stuff

Hey, it's ALMOST a boring disc priest from wow!

And yet, it being fresh and new aside, it's alot more fun to me than yet a other year of uhm... Lillies, 'cards' or uncontrollable fairies!

That's just my opinion tho and I'm sure I'll be bored of it quickly anyway!

Can't win em all ^^

Uhm. Ok.
See, there is players that think: uwaah, nice animations, new ones, new gear, looks funky, I like it!! - And I guess that is fine already, isn't it? Now for the fun factor. I dunno :3 When I play a healer, I either want a relaxed experience in a dungeon or change of perspective in a raid or trials fight. Because in hard content, healing normally has you busy enough and not in need of any more buttons. At least I'd say that is true for way beyond 90% of the playerbase.

I like it, wish I could dark arts my AoE for a light show version of Miasma II though.

& that using pepsi on my shield would give an addersting.

SGE is copypaste but SMN and DNC are original? DNC being lesser RDM and SMN just being a singular button spam for 80 levels? Hell even MNK isn’t original copying SAM buff

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

I mean, yeah. This shouldn't be news to you. We've known this since the media tour when they showed it off. Sage is just a regular healer that occasionally tosses out a small passive heal.

It was never marketed as a Disc Priest. It has the ability to heal while dealing damage. It doesn't heal based on your damage.

It's just another Glare Mage. We've known this for a while now. You shouldn't have been surprised.

Edit: As for eukrasia, well, people wanted a busier healer. Now you have one. You have to put in more effort and spend more GCD's in order to do the same thing the other healers can do.

Ps. I like that we get Adders Sting from breaking barriers. It adds new strategy to our damage. Shield the Black Mage more to get more damage. Shield the ninja that's having a hard time with mechanics and get rewarded for it. (Although, the damage could be increased on it a bit.)

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But it doesn't even do that, or rather only on paper: you have 2 abilities, 1 with an upgraded version, and all only apply a tiny HoT to 1 target.
That tiny HoT is a gimmick, nothing more.

Surprised is the wrong word: I'm more like dumbfounded how SE just did an utterly lazy copy&paste job, borrowing ~95% of abilities/mechanics from the other healers, slapping a tiny HoT on a few damaging abilities and calling it a new class.

Is this the result of all those years in development?

The problem I have is:
- The damage generated healing is overhealing, when whoever is taking damage isn't really tanking much.
- It's way too little, when the patient is taking it to the face and you're back to spamming normal heals/shields.

At best, it's like a lesser fairy, because the fairy heals you even when you run in circles, kiting a mob.

I like the aesthetics, but in the end, this isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

The problem I have is:
- The damage generated healing is overhealing, when whoever is taking damage isn't really tanking much.
- It's way too little, when the patient is taking it to the face and you're back to spamming normal heals/shields.

At best, it's like a lesser fairy, because the fairy heals you even when you run in circles, kiting a mob.

I like the aesthetics, but in the end, this isn't it.

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The fairy also heals random people and doesn't focus one target nor can you control it to heal a specific person, there are pros and cons to kardia and fairy.

Like I said before SGE imo is just the way SE wanted SCH to be if not that they took a lot of inspiration from past Ideas they had for SCH.

The fact your only Addersgall dump is overheal is a little telling to the situation they had with removing energy drain from SCH at the start of shb.

Especially with the last minute Pneuma changes to make it a dps neutral skill instead of a gain. They'll never give SGE an Energy Drain equivalent.

While I mostly agree, I consider it baby steps in the right direction. It is very clear that the devs probably assumed SGE wouldn't be as well received if most of its healing came from dealing damage (because it's a healer and healers have to heal! *rolls eyes*) so it was made somewhat more accessible for what an average healer is already accustomed to - which kinda defeats the purpose of it being a new healer, but I digress.

PS: inb4 anyone unironically saying something on the lines of "if you want to do damage, play a DPS!"

I actually really like Sage. I got it to 90 and I don’t regret it one bit. I love barrier healers and how busy Sage is. Reminds me of Astro. The Kardia system is pretty nice too. I wasn’t expecting it to be a wow discipline priest clone because the devs didn’t present it that way. It’s basically a busier scholar.

It took me no time to master it because I use to main scholar. I would love to see some healing potency increases but that’s really all. Also Sage in pvp is so much fun. Overpowered but very fun indeed.

I think there should be more buttons that can Eukrasia:
- Eukrasian Phlegma that becomes a long ranged single-target, cuz it is kinda awkward for Sage to stay near the target.

- Eukrasian Toxikon becomes a single target with higher potency, so it doesn't look like just a Dosis on-move.
- Eukrasian Taurochole and Eukrasian Holos. These skills heal and give damage reduction at the same time, which is kinda awkward to use when party/tank HP is full and you want to mitigate damage only. Their Eukrasian version should give shield instead of heal.

- Eukrasian Icarus: instead of move you forward, it moves you backward.
- Eukrasian Esuna: works like Bard's esuna that will give a buff that erase debuff.

As a person who mained as a Chloro in Rift, and has been AST here.... I like it, to a degree, but I am really holding judgement until I know it more.

It's DPS seems weak, and a touch boring and those heals from damage don't seem to be very big. Part of this could be the stat squish of course.

Perfect would be a few KABOOM damage spells with large numbers, and attached huge heals.

(Nothing wrong with green DPS, SE needs to embrace it more).

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Originally Posted by Allegor

While I mostly agree, I consider it baby steps in the right direction. It is very clear that the devs probably assumed SGE wouldn't be as well received if most of its healing came from dealing damage (because it's a healer and healers have to heal! *rolls eyes*) so it was made somewhat more accessible for what an average healer is already accustomed to - which kinda defeats the purpose of it being a new healer, but I digress.

PS: inb4 anyone unironically saying something on the lines of "if you want to do damage, play a DPS!"

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~2+ years of development time and this is all SGE is, a barrier/WHM hybrid using the same abilities/mechanics from the other healers, but with different names/colors or mechanics changed around + a tiny, almost forgettable HoT when dealing damage with 3 abilities, and you call that "baby steps"?

After doing more thinking I think I get why Eukrasia is such a UX abomination: it's just so that the end-user has 1 more button to press as the overall class kit is quite small compared to the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

~2+ years of development time and this is all SGE is, a barrier/WHM hybrid using the same abilities/mechanics from the other healers, but with different names/colors or mechanics changed around + a tiny, almost forgettable HoT when dealing damage with 3 abilities, and you call that "baby steps"?.

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I mean, I personally like Sage, so perhaps I am biased here—but were you really expecting to receive a healer that didn’t borrow/copy from the other three? In this game? If you’ve played it for any considerable amount of time, then it should have been obvious from the get-go that you wouldn’t get a healer vastly different from the other three with a completely unique kit. Especially with the emphasis that the developers place on accessibility—though they did market SGE as the healer that, if people wanted more than just basic play a la WHM, try it.

This is not to say that I agree with this notion. Or to say that there can’t be improvements. I have a few things I’d like to see done to improve the job, such as more emphasis on Kardion and expansion of that concept. And preferably one of our 4 AOE GCDs being oGCD instead for a weave in that beautiful 1.5s cast time; and perhaps make Toxicon worth fishing for. But I wasn’t expecting something that was a complete 180 from the basic model healers have had in this game for several years now. Expectations should be adjusted accordingly based on the formula this game has had for at least 4 years now.

As for its healing kit, I like it. And I personally don’t find it “weak” at all outside of when you have no resources and Diagnosis spam is all you have. But it’s meant to be another SCH and SCH has the same issue with Physick spam. Granted Savage isn’t out yet for me to jump in there—and I’m still working my way through the MSQ since Login Queue (Ultimate) is an expansion door boss; but I don’t find it weak by any means. Damage has yet to really be seen since a certain tool people use is still not fully functional yet; so I’d hold off on declarations about that until it is.

Speaking as a long time complainer about the state of healing in this game. I half agree and half disagree.

A lot of SGE feels like what SCH should be. But I don't think it's lazy & a straight copy & paste job. And despite my complaints about healing jobs in this game, I've been enjoying SGE and I think it is a step in the right direction. There may be some things I would change, yes.

But as a former SCH main...I am glad I am shield healing again. I am glad I am not just doing Broil/Art of War spams (or the SGE equivalent) and at least have some variety there. 5.0 SCH's oGCD's were too efficient so shields always felt secondary. With SGE I am prioritizing them more as I cannot rely on my oGCD's as much. It feels like they've addressed one of my biggest concerns with it and my second biggest concern the jury is still out one, that one will come with time (when I am a better SGE and am at level 90 with good gear), which is the healing downtime issue and the tools to break up the monotony of healing downtime. That said, I feel out of the 4 healers SGE is the best prepared for it, even versus AST.

If my current experience with SGE remains consistent, then I am happy to call SGE a success. I could be salty in that it's does a lot of what SCH does, but flows better and has quality of life stuff, but honestly, I am glad I at least have something I might continue to enjoy, which I just simply cannot do with SCH anymore.

But I think it flows differently enough and feels different enough that I am willing to give some of this a free pass, because those differences are likely to mean I don't play it the same way as SCH but means I was able to pick it up easily as a former SCH main, in fairness, I've yet to taste 6.0 SCH.

I feel like they struggle a lot in getting the balance with healers right. I don't think the problem is "laziness" but the fact they don't have a dedicated healer designer or simply don't understand how people play the role or what implications certain decisions have. Though I will give some kudos in that Yoshi P did at long last acknowledge the complaints people have about healers and give his take on it (even if it took forever of nothing but silence). Sadly it was not a satisfactory one in that they won't be taking the approach people were giving and they are taken the harder option to get right IMO, but he also pointed to SGE for people who complain about the pre-existing healer jobs and I think I can kinda understand why he did. SGE if anything feels like an attempt to pacify those who hated 5.0 SCH, like me.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

I like that we get Adders Sting from breaking barriers. It adds new strategy to our damage. Shield the Black Mage more to get more damage. Shield the ninja that's having a hard time with mechanics and get rewarded for it. (Although, the damage could be increased on it a bit.)

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It's a DPS loss to shield people when your OGCDs would've sufficed... hell, it's not even a half-refund in Single Target OR in AoE. In order for it to be DPS neutral the potency would have to be more than doubled. It's a refund mechanic that just plain sucks at its job as a refund mechanic, and even for movement it's like a shittier ruin II that you get a limited supply of. You have no reason whatsoever to fish for procs of it and you should be calling out anyone you see proc fishing for being a shit healer.

My current impression of Sage is that playing it optimally will strip all the fun right out of it.

And right now I am having a lot of fun playing it.

as a new Sage Main: lol - get real problems

I like the new job - thanks SE :)

I can see a couple of the faults in the job but that doesn’t stop me from enjoying SGE immensely. I’m more than likely going to let it be my main.

I mean it's a healer, what did you expect? They've been dumbing that role down for the last two expansions. Every single healer, ever one of them plays exactly the same. Same dps buttons, same heals same BS.

That SE can't figure out how to make them unique, which isn't hard they literally have past expacs to go off of, is funny.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

It is very clear that the devs probably assumed SGE wouldn't be as well received if most of its healing came from dealing damage (because it's a healer and healers have to heal! *rolls eyes*) so it was made somewhat more accessible for what an average healer is already accustomed to - which kinda defeats the purpose of it being a new healer, but I digress.

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I believe that the devs assumed that a DPS-based healer would be required by every end-game static.

I can see the PF announcements already: "No WHM, SCH or AST need apply".

You shouldn't be spamming Eukrasia before every action. You don't benefit from spamming shields on people over and over.

Nor does constantly reapplying the dot serve any purpose.