Monk Positionals 6.0

Give them back. If people don't like positionals they can play a different job but this and the speed are the main part of monk's job identity. It's similar to taking away jumps from Dragoon or the pet from Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Infernocommander

It's similar to taking away jumps from Dragoon or the pet from Summoner.

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You're thinking of Forms, not positionals. All melee DPS have positionals.

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Originally Posted by RdehlikaJenma

You're thinking of Forms, not positionals. All melee DPS have positionals.

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MNK is the only one who had it for all combo skills, I think that was the point.
It was pretty core to the gameplay.

Altho we've got another system now.
If they had removed all of them I think it would've been bs but it was only for two attacks.

Well they removed the positionals on Bootshine and Dragon Kick too now. Only demolish and snap punch has positionals now.

You still have positionals, ull live.

It could be a mistake on the tooltip tbh if you scroll further down to the combo grid it still has rear or flank next to them

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

It could be a mistake on the tooltip tbh if you scroll further down to the combo grid it still has rear or flank next to them

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The lodestone specifically refers to "deleted <positional> attack potency" in the patch revisions https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/monk/

Positionals are BS to begin with. Why should melees get punished when being forced to to attack from a certain direction? And the skills to remove these requirements are a poor bandaid for a "mechanic" no other role has to deal with.

Anyone else noticed that our base GCD is down to 2s from 2.5? we gonna be even faster

I've heard it so many times now about positionals ain't job's identity.

All of them said it's suck, it's rough, it's difficult, it's outdate but all of them barely invested their time on the job.
Most of them don't have much experiences but still threw themselves in savage fight which require the understanding of the job and hours of practicing, They had none and yet kept complaining and blameing the job instead of taking their time learning what MNK really is and figure out how to overcome those obstacles that make us miss our positionals

Doing positionals is not fun, they said.
but they ignored the fact that it's what make the old Mnk sticks with jobs so many years despite many flaws the jobs have.

Yes, there are some savage fights that basically kill MNK but It's like what ? one fight per expansion at best ?
These incompetent buffoons always spouting non-sense like they've played the job for years, like they knew everything about the job and act like their words represent the whole community.

It's just sad.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Well they removed the positionals on Bootshine and Dragon Kick too now. Only demolish and snap punch has positionals now.

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Wait, you're right...
What the hell?

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/monk/

????????
MNK's rotation outside of Perfect Balance is even more repetitive now because of the lack of OGCD's and they removed positionals on top of that too?
Wtf are they thinking????

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

I've heard it so many times now about positionals ain't job's identity.

All of them said it's suck, it's rough, it's difficult, it's outdate but all of them barely invested their time on the job.
Most of them don't have much experiences but still threw themselves in savage fight which require the understanding of the job and hours of practicing, They had none and yet kept complaining and blameing the job instead of taking their time learning what MNK really is and figure out how to overcome those obstacles that make us miss our positionals

Doing positionals is not fun, they said.
but they ignored the fact that it's what make the old Mnk sticks with jobs so many years despite many flaws the jobs have.

Yes, there are some savage fights that basically kill MNK but It's like what ? one fight per expansion at best ?
These incompetent buffoons always spouting non-sense like they've played the job for years, like they knew everything about the job and act like their words represent the whole community.

It's just sad.

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I am convinced anyone who says they're '' too hard '' aren't even trying...
If someone thinks that positionals are too hard then damn how would you even manage with any challenging content in the game?

Edit: I don't rly agree that there are any fights that can '' kill MNK '' tho, you have so many ways to avoid positionals with Riddle of Earth and True North you can go for a long time without them.
In E9S for example on the platforms you can basically still have almost 100% uptime on your positionals if you just use them.
You probably can have 100% if you use them in a clever manner.

On the other side, the base GDC went down to 2 seconds, not counting greased lightning or SKS, I think monk will be busy enough.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

I've heard it so many times now about positionals ain't job's identity.


These incompetent buffoons always spouting non-sense like they've played the job for years, like they knew everything about the job and act like their words represent the whole community.

It's just sad.

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But you are doing the same thing, assuming that what you believe is more important than what they believe, honestly I can take or leave positionals I don't find them especially tricky nor do I find them especially interesting, they are just a thing that is there, for me Monk has always been about speed and between GL, and reduced base GCD and riddle of wind I will feel faster than ever

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Originally Posted by Saito_

On the other side, the base GDC went down to 2 seconds, not counting greased lightning or SKS, I think monk will be busy enough.

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I honestly doubt this that would mean that our GCD would be sitting at 1.6 with GL and without any skill speed.

I remember hearing that the game gets buggy when you get too fast but I am not 100% sure about that but I don't think we'll be sitting at 1.6 natively that sounds too crazy.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

But you are doing the same thing, assuming that what you believe is more important than what they believe, honestly I can take or leave positionals I don't find them especially tricky nor do I find them especially interesting, they are just a thing that is there, for me Monk has always been about speed and between GL, and reduced base GCD and riddle of wind I will feel faster than ever

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There is more to MNK now to make up for it but I still think it's a wtf.
I do worry that MNK is going to be too boring and stale outside of the burst windows.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Anyone else noticed that our base GCD is down to 2s from 2.5? we gonna be even faster

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The tooltips always assume level 90 with all traits. GL4 is a trait and so it affects the GCD. 2.5 base - 20% is 2 seconds. 2 seconds is the base GCD with GL4 and no SS.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The tooltips always assume level 90 with all traits. GL4 is a trait and so it affects the GCD. 2.5 base - 20% is 2 seconds. 2 seconds is the base GCD with GL4 and no SS.

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Why would they explicitly note the change from 2.5 to 2 seconds then? GL did not change in that regard.


Edit: The english version of the job guide only notes the GCD change for True Strike, while the German version notes it for all GCDs, except Bootshine.



2nd Edit: The French and Japanese versions are similar to the German one.

My thought on it has just kind of shifted to the whole management on the new Ying/Yang gauge system; and whether or not it'll make things feel busier, or just as active as it was before.

I mean it's something to definitely consider, because it does look busier then the normal chakra was; which in fairness was just something we kept up and executed with a single button press throughout fights and instantly in-between.

I guess what I'm saying is we shouldn't downplay the new system monk got until we know just how busy it truly makes the job feel, because I'm personally all for changing stuff like this, as long as it's replaced with something that makes the job feel just as busy; as it's the only reason why i love Monk so much.

the removal of even more (or any for that matter) positionals is absolutely ridiculous. i never post on forums, but i had to finally speak out after watching monk get gutted in shadowbringers and now gutted even more. (losing 2 ogcd's for a masterful blitz finisher which is just doing gcd's and now losing 4 out of 6 positionals). i basically quit for most of shadowbringers because of monk being gutted and now it's being gutted again. kinda getting sick of this with this game

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

My thought on it has just kind of shifted to the whole management on the new Ying/Yang gauge system; and whether or not it'll make things feel busier, or just as active as it was before.

I mean it's something to definitely consider, because it does look busier then the normal chakra was; which in fairness was just something we kept up and executed with a single button press throughout fights and instantly in-between.

I guess what I'm saying is we shouldn't downplay the new system monk got until we know just how busy it truly makes the job feel, because I'm personally all for changing stuff like this, as long as it's replaced with something that makes the job feel just as busy; as it's the only reason why i love Monk so much.

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except it's actually less busy now. tornado kick and elixir field were removed and you're still pressing perfect balance, still pressing gcd's for your nadi, you're just now pressing 1 button at the end of your beast chakra. on top of that there's no more positionals so you stand there for most of the time

i say what in a month-ish almost nobody gonna play this mess of a job(both positional lovers and positional haters), seriously, they promised what they where going to remove only 2 positionals, so much about keeping promises eh?(remember when yoshida said what the slowdown on riddle of fire was a bad idea yet they still keep it on the beginning of shb?)
and what we get in exchange of the positional removals? almost no ogcd's!, a joke of a maintenance skill!(anatman), and promises what the job will be supposedly feel busy(somehow? even tho monk gameplay is gcd based now)
edit: and thinking about it, now missing positionals hardly do affect monk bottom dmg at all since basically almost all the skills monk has are gcd based, so missing the positionals what will be a drop of 1-2% dmg in total?

I feel like people don't like nuance and/or don't realize not all classes are for them. Every strict rotation type of melee class has died as well. That and they're always accepting less. Don't have to manage movement? Don't like timers? Well let's ignore the classes that are less tight, they just HAVE to change the ones that are. It's a shame. I hope it never fully happens but this game is gonna end up extremely homogenized.

I just find it funny that the job previously defined by its positionals now has fewer positionals than DRG.

What the crap?

I thought we were only getting positional changes to True Strike and Twin Snakes.

Why make a job less challenging? Am I just a speedy dragoon without a spear?

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Originally Posted by RdehlikaJenma

You're thinking of Forms, not positionals. All melee DPS have positionals.

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You are correct in that each melee job has positionals, but are you also aware that Monk had two positional requirements for each of the three forms?

Monk was known for dancing around the enemy and attacking its 'weak spots' with an accompanying increase in damage. Nothing you say can change this.

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

I feel like people don't like nuance and/or don't realize not all classes are for them. Every strict rotation type of melee class has died as well. That and they're always accepting less. Don't have to manage movement? Don't like timers? Well let's ignore the classes that are less tight, they just HAVE to change the ones that are. It's a shame. I hope it never fully happens but this game is gonna end up extremely homogenized.

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To some extent I agree with you, but I still think that they play/ will play very differently.
They all do feel different.

If you want to see what homogenization looks like try ESO.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

My thought on it has just kind of shifted to the whole management on the new Ying/Yang gauge system; and whether or not it'll make things feel busier, or just as active as it was before.

I mean it's something to definitely consider, because it does look busier then the normal chakra was; which in fairness was just something we kept up and executed with a single button press throughout fights and instantly in-between.

I guess what I'm saying is we shouldn't downplay the new system monk got until we know just how busy it truly makes the job feel, because I'm personally all for changing stuff like this, as long as it's replaced with something that makes the job feel just as busy; as it's the only reason why i love Monk so much.

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The job is busy pre-endwalker, and I agree that it would be quite busy if monk kept all six positionals moving forward into Endwalker.

My issue is the lack of communication from SE about this. Were we not told that only Twin Snakes and True Strike would lose positional requirements? What we have as a result is twice the amount of positional loss than originally communicated.

And I get that things could have changed between the media tour and now, but I don't buy the 'we didn't know monk would end up needing this much reduction in positional requirements' when they had a working template at the time of the media tour.

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

I feel like people don't like nuance and/or don't realize not all classes are for them. Every strict rotation type of melee class has died as well. That and they're always accepting less. Don't have to manage movement? Don't like timers? Well let's ignore the classes that are less tight, they just HAVE to change the ones that are. It's a shame. I hope it never fully happens but this game is gonna end up extremely homogenized.

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I mean new summoner is the perfect example of why SE can't design engaging jobs anymore.

All of bards procs are now untied with dots.

The travesty that is called Dark Knight.

MCH is stagnant and boring and gets repetitive real fast.
Monk remains to be seen but faith is not high after reading the job guide.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

To some extent I agree with you, but I still think that they play/ will play very differently.
They all do feel different.

If you want to see what homogenization looks like try ESO.

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I mean I don't have to. I can just look at our tanks.

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Originally Posted by Saito_

Positionals are BS to begin with. Why should melees get punished when being forced to to attack from a certain direction? And the skills to remove these requirements are a poor bandaid for a "mechanic" no other role has to deal with.

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Really stop talking such nonsense. You don´t like them? FINE... then don´t play them. All this bs with "getting punished for"... What if you missclick a skill? What if you stand in an aoe? What if you interupt your casting times? Do even melees have casting times? Why does RDPS classes have no casting times or positionals but 10% less damage? Why...? And and and....

Getting punished for mistakes is part of any game. If this wouldn´t be a thing, why do we even have boss mechanics or rotations? How about 1 buttonsmasher with perma-invul?!
All the mimimi about some unique game aspects and now we´re at a point, where a class... loved by thousands of players ...is getting dumbed down and homogenized once again.

SHAME ON YOU SE and SHAME ON ALL POSITIONAL-HATERS out there! You selfish and greedy .... going to make the game a no-brainer and destroy the last aspects of fun for any serious gamer out there. "I don´t want to be punished when i suck, i want to be uwu´d all day long to feel so great even if i ignore all class aspects and spam 1 button, uwu me please uwuuwuwuwuwu!!!! TY SE <33333 "
I seriously don´t have enough middlefingers to show to Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Anyone else noticed that our base GCD is down to 2s from 2.5? we gonna be even faster

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That's with GL4 added in. 2.5 base reducing it 20% from GL4 is 2.0

Good Riddance to over reliance on positionals. Finally Monk will no longer be a movement mess that it is.

Finally MNK will be SMOOTH to play....FINALLY.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Good Riddance to over reliance on positionals. Finally Monk will no longer be a movement mess that it is.

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Ppl like you are called "movement-cripple" in MMORPG´s. Why do you even mess with movement-depended classes? Ahhhh right... because of some visuals and to cry about the whole class design. Maybe try... i don´t know... sidescrolling mobile games? No need to move there, some of them do even play automatically. You can just sit there and watch some animations while doing nothing all the time.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Good Riddance to over reliance on positionals. Finally Monk will no longer be a movement mess that it is.

Finally MNK will be SMOOTH to play....FINALLY.

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you mean just standing there? have you not heard of every single other class in the game that plays just like that?

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Originally Posted by jerome15

you mean just standing there? have you not heard of every single other class that plays just like that?

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Do you mean classes like DNC, BRD or MCH? Those with all freedom in the world which lasts in the fact, that they never stack, are in range for heal or die as most to any mechanic out there, because they´re so busy staying in the corner or any arena?

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Do you mean classes like DNC, BRD or MCH? Those with all freedom in the world which lasts in the fact, that they never stack, are in range for heal or die as most to any mechanic out there, because they´re so busy staying in the corner or any arena?

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I mean every class just stands there since they don't have as many positionals as monk did. now every job just stands there to attack minus melee dps with their at most 2 positionals now

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Originally Posted by Saito_

Positionals are BS to begin with. Why should melees get punished when being forced to to attack from a certain direction? And the skills to remove these requirements are a poor bandaid for a "mechanic" no other role has to deal with.

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There are now four other melee to play. I don't suppose you understand how SE balances jobs, do you?

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Originally Posted by jerome15

you mean just standing there? have you not heard of every single other class in the game that plays just like that?

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I have no problems with DRG positionals....because they make sense....the rotation makes sense.....the flow makes sense....

Monk positionals made sense....up to 3.0....after that...they were a burden just to add complexity to the job....nothing more

DRG or SAM aren't complex. And they still have postionals...but they don't RELY on them to make the job FUN.

In all honesty though...I do feel for those that felt the job was fine and that they liked the postionals. I really do because you worked very hard to become the best at monk. I would be incredibly naive to believe that we didn't see this coming. Of course they didn't tell us until the VERY last moment. There's no turning back now....only forward.

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Originally Posted by jerome15

I mean every class just stands there since they don't have as many positionals as monk did. now every job just stands there to attack minus melee dps with their at most 2 positionals now

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I know, was just sarcasm... won´t be fun to wait 30s for 1 mechanic over and over again. RIP Monk.

Losing so much of what made Monk fun is just a kick in the balls. No serious Monk main ever complained about positionals and it is these players who you should listen to feedback from, not the ones who 'feel bad' about missing positionals despite the fact they never really tried.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Good Riddance to over reliance on positionals. Finally Monk will no longer be a movement mess that it is.

Finally MNK will be SMOOTH to play....FINALLY.

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Would you prefer to stand still? If so Monk was never the job for you.